ThomasEmil
Invisible Herrera Watcher
Real question is, how would VVD do against Yorke and cole
O.o which 4 players would they be then?
The side of that era was well oiled and faced superior opposition.
Klopp would have some serious tactical decisions to make in that matchup, far more than Ferguson.
Memory might fail me but wasn't 2008 Rooney more of a pure striker rather than a #10? Always find it hard to play players out of position just to accommodate them in such a combined XI.Mane CR7 SalahYou can go either Scholes or Rooney next to 2 hardworking Central midfielders. Rooney shades it for me due to work rate. Rio or Vidic to partner VVD. Liverpool fans would claim Henderson over Fletcher and Becker over VDS.
Rooney
Carrick Fletcher
Evra Rio Van Dijk Alexander-A
Van der Sar
That Ronaldo didn't come into existence until late '10's. His role was wide forward for his rise to prominence.Mane CR7 SalahYou can go either Scholes or Rooney next to 2 hardworking Central midfielders. Rooney shades it for me due to work rate. Rio or Vidic to partner VVD. Liverpool fans would claim Henderson over Fletcher and Becker over VDS.
Rooney
Carrick Fletcher
Evra Rio Van Dijk Alexander-A
Van der Sar
Fair post. It's a real shame for you your side habe had their run disrupted.You won 3 PL's in row and added a CL in '08 so, if I had to pick the most dominant PL team ever, 2008 Utd would probably be the one, yes. Of course we don't know what will happen next season, but the current Liverpool side will always have the following arguments going against them:
- Absolutely historic 19/20 season abruptly stopped, possibly even without a title to show for it;
- General consensus that the rest of the big clubs are weaker than a decade ago;
- Didn't win the title in 18/19 because of another historically good side in City.
I don't like whataboutism in these discussions, so just like it's pointless to imagine the situation if City hadn't been that good during '16-'18, it's also pointless to ponder how Utd would be regarded if they hadn't faced the best team of all-time in Barca '09-'11 during that period. Imagine if Liverpool wins the league this season and next, we'd have 2 league titles and a CL (and some other minor cups that I don't even know Utd won during '07-'09), it would still be very hard to argue we're better than your Utd side since we don't have the PL treble. You can argue about it in the sense of a two-legged tie or one-off game, but on the whole, one PL extra, especially making it a treble which no other team has ever done in the PL, carries a lot of weight in such a discussion. Say that we win the treble during 20/21 though, that would make up for the PL less imo.
That's all assuming that there'll be a 20/21 season of course, might be wishful thinking at this point
Just making the point you can't have it both ways to suit your argument.Okay, thanks.
It's also just as key to see how your back 4 would cope with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez.A key factor for me would be how would the United back four of 2008 cope with being pressed in their own half. From what I remember the likes of Rio & co quite often had all the time in the world to stroll out of their own half to help set-up an attack, for teams generally sat very deep in order to try & contain United's attacking threat.
Yep pretty much. People seem to have short memories as to just how good this team was.I mean this Liverpool team hasn't even won a title yet ;E
In all seriousness that United attack would tear Pool's defence a new one. A lot of Liverpool's attacks stem from Trent. Who wouldn't be able to play as a forward anymore with Ronaldo switching to the left to expose the space. He'd essentially be nullified as any attacking presence. The pressing of Tevez and Rooney would further expose them massively. They pressed with way more aggression than you see nowadays. It wasn't much of a zonal system, more like a pair of rabid dogs let off their leash. They never seemed to tire. Personally I think Pool's workhorse midfield wouldn't get much joy out of Scholes/Carrick they could keep the ball for days when pressed, it's part of the reason we were so good. That defence is pretty flawless man for man and vidic and rio are the best partnership i've seen in the prem.
Still doesn't really answer my point about how your defence would cope with being pressurised every time they had the ball. Pep's City are widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, Premier League side ever. They've struggled against us on quite a few occasions even with the plethora of world class attacking talent they have at their disposal, so why do you think your 2008 side would fare any better ?It's also just as key to see how your back 4 would cope with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez.
I'd imagine they'd get smashed given they couldn't manage with Morata a few weeks ago.
Not been challenged We came within a sniff of a league & CL double last season. You don't count that as a challenge then ?This Liverpool team hasn't been challenged yet, they have had a great run in the CL and are not out of it, a title challenge this season without competition. I would like to see how they react from say 4 losses or a drop in form. That United team had squad depth hence was able to compete in different competitions.
Finally, SAF was not bound to one system, away from home in the CL we played a defensive setup to get us 1-1 or 1-0
That was a start of something. You came of the back of a season where you were 25 points behind City. So in that season you challenged CIty not the other way round. No one expected a title challenge unlike this season.Not been challenged We came within a sniff of a league & CL double last season. You don't count that as a challenge then ?
The difference is that Pep and City have one way of playing and are a stubborn team. SAF teams knew when to play football from the back and when to change style.Still doesn't really answer my point about how your defence would cope with being pressurised every time they had the ball. Pep's City are widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, Premier League side ever. They've struggled against us on quite a few occasions even with the plethora of world class attacking talent they have at their disposal, so why do you think your 2008 side would fare any better ?
It still doesn't take away the fact that City had to win 14 games on the bounce to beat us. So the 'challenge' for us was to try & become more consistent than them. Something that we've done thus far.That was a start of something. You came of the back of a season where you were 25 points behind City. So in that season you challenged CIty not the other way round. No one expected a title challenge unlike this season.
It is all well and good when you are dark horses, but it is a different ball game once you win the league and teams are coming for you.
Consistently managing to beat the challenges is what makes a Great side. Ofcourse this Liverpool team is a brilliant one, but we are comparing the 08 team which is different gravy.
I'm not doubting the 2008 United's defensive qualities. It's not up for question. What is though is how they'd cope with the a side that plays high intensity football. You were well beaten in both CL finals against a Barcelona side that played full on football. That's not me saying that we're as good as that Barcelona side, but more that United struggled with a style of football where players worked extra hard in pressing & winning the ball back quickly.The difference is that Pep and City have one way of playing and are a stubborn team. SAF teams knew when to play football from the back and when to change style.
I have no doubt Fergie would be changing tactics V Klopp to have players like Park and Fletcher giving Ronaldo, Rooney freedom up top. There would be a direct tactic which we have seen Liverpool struggle with when teams play the ball in the channel. I am sure Scholes, Carrick would find a ball over the top to Ronaldo / Rooney who in that time could beat a man one v one with ease.
Defensively, that team was alot better than the city team, in terms of absorbing pressure and counter attacking.
No, the challenge was for City to show they can overcome the challenge.It still doesn't take away the fact that City had to win 14 games on the bounce to beat us. So the 'challenge' for us was to try & become more consistent than them. Something that we've done thus far.
The 09 final was perhaps closer than the 11 final we were well beaten by one of the best ever sides. In comparison that Utd team was on the downhill spiral which peaked 2 years before.You were well beaten in both CL finals against a Barcelona side that played full on football.
The thing with both the Utd 2008 and Liverpool 2019 team was the midfield area was the weakest.But now you're looking at it like dynasties though? I thought the question was "08 Utd vs 19 Liverpool, who wins a game or a European tie?".
If you're speaking from a general POV, Liverpool 18-? has a lot to prove (and win) before they come close to 07-09 United, that's not even discussion worthy at this point imo.
If sniff counts our 2 lost final says hiNot been challenged We came within a sniff of a league & CL double last season. You don't count that as a challenge then ?
Past their best but still better than pretty much every other midfielder in the league though? Giggs won the PFA Player of the year award in 2009 and Scholes was still the best passer/distributor and keeper of the ball in the premier league. The only thing Scholes ever lost was a little bit of mobility so he was played deeper. His output never diminished in terms of controlling games. No one is trying to tell me that they would choose Jordan Henderson over either of those two surely? If so, I'm lost for words.The thing with both the Utd 2008 and Liverpool 2019 team was the midfield area was the weakest.
(Scholes and Giggs were past there best).
High intensity is dependent on what threats your opponents have and how much of what you give they can give back. Do you back your industrious midfield to find more pockets of space in an open game than two of the best passers English football has seen in the last 30 years? Do you believe your backline would better hold out against that attack than ours would against yours? How far forward do you think is advisable to push on when the counter is Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez running the ball back up the pitch?I'm not doubting the 2008 United's defensive qualities. It's not up for question. What is though is how they'd cope with the a side that plays high intensity football. You were well beaten in both CL finals against a Barcelona side that played full on football. That's not me saying that we're as good as that Barcelona side, but more that United struggled with a style of football where players worked extra hard in pressing & winning the ball back quickly.
Football is a team sport, you can't just look at all individual positions and then decide which was the better team.The thing with both the Utd 2008 and Liverpool 2019 team was the midfield area was the weakest.
(Scholes and Giggs were past there best).
So the argument falls who was better
Salah v Rooney
Mane v Ronaldo
Frimino v Tevez
VvD v Rio
Matip/Gomez v Vidic
Robertson v Evra
Trent v Brown
Agreed, which is one of the reasons why Liverpool have done so well, they have been the better team. No one would be suggesting the current Midfield is the best in the world, put it in the system, it is one of the best in the world.Football is a team sport, you can't just look at all individual positions and then decide which was the better team.
Still that United team could counter at break neck speed given half a chance. Carrick and Scholes were very smart players and I’m sure we‘d get a few chances to counter. Thinking about it, I believe SAF’s willingness to concede possession in these tight games would see us fare pretty well against this Liverpool edition. You haven’t even managed to dominate this season’s version of United, and I’d say Ole has taken a page out of SAF’s play book.A key factor for me would be how would the United back four of 2008 cope with being pressed in their own half. From what I remember the likes of Rio & co quite often had all the time in the world to stroll out of their own half to help set-up an attack, for teams generally sat very deep in order to try & contain United's attacking threat.
Red Cafe eh?This question is being asked on a Manchester United site....WTF?
Giggs wasn't a regular in the 2008 team.Past their best but still better than pretty much every other midfielder in the league though? Giggs won the PFA Player of the year award in 2009 and Scholes was still the best passer/distributor and keeper of the ball in the premier league. The only thing Scholes ever lost was a little bit of mobility so he was played deeper. His output never diminished in terms of controlling games. No one is trying to tell me that they would choose Jordan Henderson over either of those two surely? If so, I'm lost for words.
That's besides the point mate. I'm just pointing out that Giggs "past his best" was still winning PFA Awards a year later. Him not playing is a valid reason for not comparing, but saying he's essentially over the hill isn't true and not a valid reason. Also, if we're talking comparison wise we rotated way way more than this Liverpool team so it might not be as black and white as to who the "first team" were as it was dependant on opponent. Hargreaves, Giggs and Nani were all first team regulars and I couldn't say with a clear conscience that Giggs was considered a back up by any stretch of the imagination.Giggs wasn't a regular in the 2008 team.
The midfield that started the CL final
Carrick. Scholes. Hargreaves.
Giggs didn't even start in either of the semi finals against Barcalona that year.
I think what Fergie did in Europe with Aberdeen in 83 and with United in 91 and 99 was better than anything Klopp has done in Europe, horses for courses considered.If you asked the question on a Liverpool forum, you're gonna get a different answer.
I think Klopp is clearly ahead of Fergie when it comes to Champions League tactics and getting the best out of what he has to work with in that competition.
But Fergie still clearly a better manager when you consider all other criteria like developing youth, longevity, trophy count etc. .
But man for man, only 4 Liverpool players would get into that 2008 Man Utd team and that's a fact.
Better coached? Long balls and right wing crosses are these huge tactical advancements?Their side is better due to it being betger coached. Huge tactical advances have been made in the past decade. Football tends to move on tactically as opposed to the players being better.
In terms of individual players we probably have the edge. Just an edge though as they do have high quality players.