Well, United 08 is the best team in the PL era and arguably in English football history. This Liverpool team isn't even top 3 in the PL era.
So yeah...
So yeah...
What team was better: Manchester United 2008 or Liverpool 2019?
- Thread starter matbezlima
- Start date
Only a mug would pick this Liverpool team tbh
How is this even a debate? I'm sure this has already been discussed in another thread not long back too. Arguably our best ever side and a ridiculous, freak Portsmouth FA cup game away from another Treble.
We beat a couple of very solid Lyon and Roma teams. A very good Barcelona and probably one of the best Chelsea teams in history in the final. Liverpool barely beat one of the most underwhelming Barcelona teams in years, an average Porto team, an out of form Bayern team and a bunch of bottlers in Tottenham. I wouldn't say their run was more impressive at all.Lyon and Roma were a pretty easy run. It was also Barcelona pre having an insane Messi in that side and no Pep. Chelsea was a hard final just as fighting for the league with them was hard.
Still we won only on penalties in the end. That Terry slip was magical, but to be honest Chelsea should have won it otherwise. It was the smallest or margins to win the CL.
It is always great to win the CL though. Just we didn't impress that much beyond defending well. It was not like our attack with Rooney and Ronaldo were destroying the opponents.
We definitely have the better players and squad but if I'm being honest they would give us a hell of a game. We're better but this Liverpool team is just so hard to play against.
What would give us the edge compared to other teams that struggle against them is we can match their pressing and energy. Two games that stick out in 2008 we're the 0-1 away win at Anfield and the 2-1 at OT vs Arsenal. Both games were absolute dogfights and it was our energy and desire that got us over the line.
Play the 11 we used in the CL final and we win. As good as Trent and Salah are, Ronaldo and Evra would still dominate that wing. Plus having the defensive wing of Hargreaves and Brown will give Mane some problems. Firmino would be light work for our CB's.
What would give us the edge compared to other teams that struggle against them is we can match their pressing and energy. Two games that stick out in 2008 we're the 0-1 away win at Anfield and the 2-1 at OT vs Arsenal. Both games were absolute dogfights and it was our energy and desire that got us over the line.
Play the 11 we used in the CL final and we win. As good as Trent and Salah are, Ronaldo and Evra would still dominate that wing. Plus having the defensive wing of Hargreaves and Brown will give Mane some problems. Firmino would be light work for our CB's.
A Ligue 1 conquering hugely talented Lyon team who were serial winners at the time with the likes of Juninho, Ben Arfa and Benzema who scored 20 league goals that season. A very good Roma team that only just missed out on Serie A by 3 points? You're talking daft. Messi also had a very good CL campaign that year, scoring 6 CL goals in 9 games along with 24 goals or assists in 28 league games so he was very good at a time when they still also had Ronaldinho, although he was injured for the 2nd half of that season.
You could say United should've had that final wrapped up in the first half hour when we had 3/4 chances to go 2/3-0 ahead if you rewatch it but we didn't. You could say Barcelona should've put that Liverpool game to bed last year but they didn't. You could say anything. Both campaigns were difficult in their own ways but to say we had an easy run is silly.
Barca were far from a very good side when we beag them. They finished 3rd in their league.
More off the ball with their whole pressing structure. In those days we had to park the bus against a not so great Barca side. This Liverpool side never has to play on the back foot.
They were still a very good side regardless of their finish that season. Ronaldinho missed a lot of their season with injury which was a big loss for them. Defensively they had a few issues but you'd be daft to say that weren't still a force.
I'm not actually sure you watched this United team the more you go on about it.
They werent a force at all. Dinho wasnt what he used to be, it was already a Messi team at that point. Even before the injury he used to be left out quite a fair bit fully fit. They were barely winning games when they played us.
It was defo a Messi team I agree with that. I would argue he was their best player almost as soon as he appeared in the first team.
He was more talented than Ronaldinho at any age let’s face it. He just didn’t play as many minutes and had some injuries early on adapting to the senior game.
Considering he scored that insane goal against Getafe in 2007 and the hat trick against Madrid I’d argue he was comfortably their best the season before when he played.
Madrid fans didn’t clap him off the field like Ronaldinho probably because they were busy scratching their heads thinking who’s this kid mugging us off.
No 06/07 Ronaldinho was still there best player.
Of course I watched it. We impressed a lot in the league and CL group stage, but not as much in the playoff. Apart from maybe Roma away.
It was not like the home game the season before.
The pressing is nothing new either and what Barca side are you referring to?
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I disagree. Messi was on the right wing lots & hit pretty much the same goals per game. That tells me the teenager is maybe not quite getting the credit yet for how good he actually in reality.
His performance against Madrid and maybe the greatest goal ever scored in football history that season will be remembered forever.
By the end of the season Messi was their top player and never looked back. As is natural he just needed to find his place in the team more.
I recently watched that United side play, and it was a squad full of stars. It was interesting because I watched a game from our current season right after that and the gulf in quality was vast. We were so much quicker at moving the ball about and loads of players were just great on the ball. The synergy was also special and you could see they knew what each other wanted in the movements and passes.
Sir Alex had 4 central midfielders to fill in 2 spots. Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves, and Anderson (who was actually quite good that season). All 4 were good enough to be starters that season. He had Fletcher, Park, and O'Shea in the squad as well if he really wanted to rotate. Nani and Ronaldo were the wingers in the game I watched, but he had Giggs as well who featured more often than Nani. Rio and Vidic were at their peak, and Evra played like a winger at times (especially if we were chasing a win) with Vidic covering for him. Saha was the backup striker to Rooney and Tevez.
The biggest downside of that season was the somewhat slow start. I saw a lot of good combinations between Rooney and Ronaldo in particular and they were just cutting through defences almost at will, with a very strong midfield behind them. CR7 was approaching beast mode - he scored 42 goals in 46 games in all competitions. I think that team would've given anyone a run for their money.
Sir Alex had 4 central midfielders to fill in 2 spots. Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves, and Anderson (who was actually quite good that season). All 4 were good enough to be starters that season. He had Fletcher, Park, and O'Shea in the squad as well if he really wanted to rotate. Nani and Ronaldo were the wingers in the game I watched, but he had Giggs as well who featured more often than Nani. Rio and Vidic were at their peak, and Evra played like a winger at times (especially if we were chasing a win) with Vidic covering for him. Saha was the backup striker to Rooney and Tevez.
The biggest downside of that season was the somewhat slow start. I saw a lot of good combinations between Rooney and Ronaldo in particular and they were just cutting through defences almost at will, with a very strong midfield behind them. CR7 was approaching beast mode - he scored 42 goals in 46 games in all competitions. I think that team would've given anyone a run for their money.
With some of the comments here you'd think players pressing the opposing team was something invented by Liverpool and no one else has done it, or experienced playing against such tactics, until the past couple of years.
Pressing pre Pep and post Pep is different. That is due to coaching. Klopp has been one of the best exponents it. There's a reason why these teams despite not necessarily having better individual quality achieve sunch incredible statistical feats while sides like our 08 side couldn't.
he wasnt
with some of the comments on here, you sometimes wonder how many posters actually are United fans or saw the teams firsthand
I'm all for opinions and debate (it's what normally makes the Caf tick) but some people here seem to be going out of their way to downplay the 08 team/squad to the point our CL run was easy and this Liverpool team have created some new system that everyone would struggle against.
We'll be picking apart Brazil 70 at this rate.
He wasn't better than Dinho when he stepped into the team. Dinho just fell off after the world cup. His numbers were great due to set pieces.
Messi's game when he was young was rather innacurate at times. His passing was very inconsistent and used to be rather selfish. Certainly wasnt prime Ronaldinho at that point who was nothing short of a genius. Messi truly only reached those levels after Pep joined.
That's a very interesting, well thought out assessment. But as far as I can remember - & I may be wrong - the only time Rooney, Ronaldo, & Tevez all started against us was when we thrashed you 4-1 at your gaff in 2009. & I'm struggling to recall too many matches when the likes of Rooney & Ronaldo really stood out when playing against us during your 'golden period'. Let's not forget either that when it comes to hitting early balls & bypassing the midfield, we're pretty good at that too. Especially when you've got players like TAA & Robertson bombing down the flanks to make up an attacking 5.
This Liverpool team is good but they aren't even in the conversation of best PL side let alone fit to lace the boots of the United 08 legends.
The problems in Messi's game that you mentioned, like his inconsistent decision-making and passing, are to be expected in any teen player no matter how much hugely talented.
True but i was posting that in response to someone saying he was barca's best player from the moment he started playing for Barca.
You're right. One thing that also kept Messi from truly reaching his highest level before Pep is that he was plagued by injuries and bad eating habits for an athlete.
United 08 - you can't stop Ronaldo that year. Simple as that.
And the defence was sensational as well.
And the defence was sensational as well.
Its a United forum so I don't expect anything else but Liverpool over the last year is absolutely right there with 07-08 United. If the two sides played 10 times (without draws), you'd expect each to win five or maybe one to edge it slightly but there's really nothing meaningful between them, and that's just a testament to the greatness of both.
I agree with the injuries thing. I actually think that’s what stopped Messi getting a similar goal Talley to Ronaldinho over the full season that year.
Messi could still do more impressive stuff even back then imo. Some of his runs boggled the mind. I do agree he improved an insane amount in the next year though! When Pep joined he became a machine.
Ronaldinho was more a player to watch for the love of the game rather than that relentless ability Messi could have on his day.
Don’t undersell Ronaldinho, what separates them is desire and hard work as much as anything, the talent disparity is not that big although I remember reading a Four Four Two magazine article about Ronaldinho in like 06 and he was already saying along the lines ‘If you think I’m good wait for this Argentine kid’.
It is hard to compare since football has evolved and improved. The opponents each team is facing is not the same. Tactics have also changed.
I think the best way to compare is to look at the relative strenght in their era. In the league we did better if you look over a number of years. In the CL we did get similar results than this modern Liverpool side. 1 win and 1 final each over a few years. The quality of the opponents can be discussed, but it is hard to know since those sides never played each other too.
This is like who would win in a boxing match between Rocky Marciano and Manny Pacquiao.
Pacquiao is a top boxer, not the best of his era (at welterweight) just like 2019 Liverpool, but great none the less.
Rocky Marciano, one of the greatest of all time, and a heavy weight. Just like 99 United. Not the greatest ever but up there just behind them.
Barcelona 2010: Muhammad Ali
Milan 1988-90: Joe Lewis
United 1999: Rocky Marciano
Liverpool 2019: Manny Pacquiao.
One of them sticks out.
Pacquiao is a top boxer, not the best of his era (at welterweight) just like 2019 Liverpool, but great none the less.
Rocky Marciano, one of the greatest of all time, and a heavy weight. Just like 99 United. Not the greatest ever but up there just behind them.
Barcelona 2010: Muhammad Ali
Milan 1988-90: Joe Lewis
United 1999: Rocky Marciano
Liverpool 2019: Manny Pacquiao.
One of them sticks out.
Yes I heard that line too. Again Ronaldinho is still one of the absolute greats I'd have loved him at United. His performance against Madrid has to be up there as maybe the best game ever played by a single player.
I feel like I've gone off topic a bit on this topic. Either way I've never seen anything like Messi though. It's almost unfair comparing anyone to him because he just does impossible things almost every game.
Back on topic though Liverpool and United 08 is actually very very close performance wise. They have no doubt reached a higher level over two years with their chemistry in the side but we won more trophies as of now. You could also argue our line-up was slighly better name for name but we didn't have their league form.
Liverpool on route to their CL success last year, had 4 defeats to Barcelona, Napoli, PSG and Crvena zvezda. Their effort at defending that title ended at the round of 16 stage losing home and away to Atletico Madrid
Man United, went through the whole 2008 champions league campaign unbeaten, defence of that title was a final defeat to an outstanding Barcelona outfit and United reached 2009 CL final without losing a game.
Man United, went through the whole 2008 champions league campaign unbeaten, defence of that title was a final defeat to an outstanding Barcelona outfit and United reached 2009 CL final without losing a game.
Only 2 I'd say at a push - Salah and maybe Trent
12 years ago, Barcelona were the pioneers of modern pressing. They changed the game completely. 12 years of tactical advances and people adopting the pressing system also means opposing teams have had more time to adapt to it.
SAF was bamboozled by Barcelona's pressing due to it s novelty and it still being an unknown quantity. He would have adapted given time, and would've gotten back on top
Feel like on paper Liverpool are always going to come up short on these threads just because there team is such an incredible functioning well but IMO their clear best player is a defender whereas most other teams best player is usually an attacking one and I think many of the other top Premier League teams had bigger superstars . 'On paper' , I'd fancy quite a lot of the old Premier League sides over this Liverpool one but the reality is - they went close to 14 months without losing a league game , won the Champions League, are going to win the league and on course for way over 100 points so it's a lot tougher than it looks.