SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Wibble

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Two stories from today..

HCQ breakthrough: ICMR finds it’s effective in preventing coronavirus, expands its use
Three studies find that hydroxychloroquine reduces chances of contracting Covid, so ICMR allows more frontline workers to take it as a preventive drug.


https://theprint.in/health/hcq-brea...reventing-coronavirus-expands-its-use/427583/
I'd like to see the study designs and the data especially given that all studies are showing that it increases the risk of death in people with the virus. One study sounds like it only studied viral load and not actual infections and the other only tested symptomatic people rather than all workers taking the drug. Plus it also sounds like each study was in a single different hospital, presumably with different circumstances in each. It might be right but I'm not convinced that the evidence is convincing enough to support their actions in using the drug as a preventative.
 

Wibble

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Tory bullshit about testing rates. Many people tested are being double counted. Shockingly incompetent yet again but by now I'm sure nobody is surprised.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...onavirus-tests-have-double-counted-officials/

Then again the Australian government miscalculated the cost of one support package by nearly 50%. They claimed it would cost $130B but the actual cost was $70B. When doing modelling they accidentally calculated the costs assume each business had 1500 employees ($1500 was the maximum benefit per worker) by mistake. The government are now saying it is a good thing that has saved the taxpayer money while looking like they are chewing on a shit sandwich. You couldn't make this shit up.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Fluctuation0161

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Agreed. It's incredibly difficult to trust in his sincerity though. I noted that the one position guaranteed to gain him publicity while on stateside tv - being anti-gun - was the one he adopted.
True. And I echo the concern having agreed with Piers Morgan too many times recently. But it is easier being anti gun when you're British!
 

Dumbstar

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Dan_F

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They initially announced there will be no quarantine for nationals of EU and EEA member states, but they rolled that back significantly now. Quarantine is still in effect for most people entering the country (neighbouring states have more a bit more leeway), but they did say they will, in time, lift border restrictions for other EEA/EU countries depending on their specific situation.
I guess it’s going to be something that will be reviewed throughout the year. My girlfriend is from Ljubljana, so we’re starting to have that discussion of whether we should even consider it for this year (We normally travel 2/3 times a year).

I haven’t really checked how they’re doing, but I’m assuming Croatia is going to be even more effected by the uncertainty over tourists in summer.
 

yumtum

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Honestly, reading just that headline, that's probably lower than I expected considering the majority of Britain voted for Brexit and then for BoJo, meaning we can safely assume most Britain's are idiots.

1/5 is a decent return.
 

dumbo

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You're right - it would need to be more focused. I made it sound too simplistic.
You were right in the first instance. BAME is something worthy of significant consideration and study with regards the virus.
I agree healthcare workers for sure should get priority but for the rest its not that simple. I understand when people see these pure figures they come to this conclusion but going down this route you suggest is flawed. It should never really be a consideration to give priority vaccinations to people purely based on race.
It isn’t that black and Asians are susceptible purely because of their race/genetics as people sometimes think. It’s because black and Asians are more likely to live in either poverty, have untreated and undiagnosed medical conditions or have a poor diet (this due to the high levels of salt, sugar and fat in black and asian cuisines) and this dietary factor is massive. This will all contribute to black and Asians being more susceptible to those underlying health conditions.

However there are plenty of healthy black and asian people out there. Who it’d be pointless giving a priority vaccination to just because of their race.

Even before the coronavirus black and asian people were dying from these conditions at a higher rate than none black and Asians.
"The Office for National Statistics analysis shows the inequality in death rates between black and white people persists after taking into account age, where people live, and some measures of deprivation and prior health."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52602467

You can't dismiss the stat discrepancy so casually. It should alarm us, and have us want to understand the reasons behind it, with supporting research. We should be open to the possibility that something to do with ethnicity at a gene inheritance level could be a cause of susceptibility and we should be open to offering greater support to those who are more likely to suffer the virus.

It is doubly important to raise this issue now, in a period of prolonged racist Tory ideology.
 

hobbers

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You were right in the first instance. BAME is something worthy of significant consideration and study with regards the virus.

"The Office for National Statistics analysis shows the inequality in death rates between black and white people persists after taking into account age, where people live, and some measures of deprivation and prior health."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52602467

You can't dismiss the stat discrepancy so casually. It should alarm us, and have us want to understand the reasons behind it, with supporting research. We should be open to the possibility that something to do with ethnicity at a gene inheritance level could be a cause of susceptibility and we should be open to offering greater support to those who are more likely to suffer the virus.

It is doubly important to raise this issue now, in a period of prolonged racist Tory ideology.
Worthy of study certainly, not worthy of priority to a vaccine based on race.

First thing that should be looked at is if the inequality persists when you control for the obvious 3 health risk factors of high BMI, diabetes and high blood pressure, and then other obvious things like the high ratio of BAME working in the healthcare sector and other metrics like increased rates of household overcrowding. In all likelihood with proper controls it will be explainable without passing it off as a genetic susceptibility.
 

Ludens the Red

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You were right in the first instance. BAME is something worthy of significant consideration and study with regards the virus.

"The Office for National Statistics analysis shows the inequality in death rates between black and white people persists after taking into account age, where people live, and some measures of deprivation and prior health."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52602467

You can't dismiss the stat discrepancy so casually. It should alarm us, and have us want to understand the reasons behind it, with supporting research. We should be open to the possibility that something to do with ethnicity at a gene inheritance level could be a cause of susceptibility and we should be open to offering greater support to those who are more likely to suffer the virus.

It is doubly important to raise this issue now, in a period of prolonged racist Tory ideology.
Im not dismissing the discrepancy, There’s a discrepancy because of the reasons I mentioned and I’ll mention them again. Black and Asians dying at a higher rate due to the coronavirus isn’t really down to a ‘black gene’ or an ‘Asian gene’.

Social, economic, cultural and dietary reasons are what makes blacks and Asians more prone to diabetes, obesity and being exposed to the coronavirus, not a ‘gene’. These problems were there before the corona and there’ll be here when it’s gone.


Type 2 diabetes is three to five times higher in black and Asians than whites in the UK. It was the same before corona.
Black and Asians have a higher rate of obesity (in particular childhood obesity) than whites. It was the same before corona.
Black and Asians are dominating our hospitals. They’re the security guards, the bus drivers, the taxi drivers, the carers, you know the jobs people don’t want to do, meaning they’re being exposed to infection more. A large amount have also come to work from abroad where they won’t have had a lifetime of sufficient medical care.
That is why the ratio of death is higher amongst them.

Black and asian people have been disproportionately dying from these diseases for years, years before the coronavirus. Black and Asian people have been doing these undesirable job roles for years.

The stats tell you the coronavirus by itself is not actually that deadly. But when it’s mixed in with diabetes and obesity then you have a problem. The idea that we need to be studying into ‘genes’, “and have us want to understand the reasons behind it, with supporting research” is all just lip service, pr bullshit and actually kind of insulting.

The reasons have been staring us in the face for years. The coronavirus has highlighted the issue but for all the wrong reasons.
If the powers that be actually want to help and are actually concerned about the black and asian community, then they should actually do something about it, do something about inequality, do something about institutional racism, get in these communities and give them medical advice, highlight the need for a well balanced diet. But that’s not what we’re getting, what we’re getting is pussy footing around, blabbering on about “genetic studies”, as if that’s going to solve or assist with anything.
There are plenty of healthy black and asian people out there completely unaffected by the coronavirus but yeah ‘genes’ or something.
 

Dante

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You were right in the first instance. BAME is something worthy of significant consideration and study with regards the virus.

"The Office for National Statistics analysis shows the inequality in death rates between black and white people persists after taking into account age, where people live, and some measures of deprivation and prior health."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52602467

You can't dismiss the stat discrepancy so casually. It should alarm us, and have us want to understand the reasons behind it, with supporting research. We should be open to the possibility that something to do with ethnicity at a gene inheritance level could be a cause of susceptibility and we should be open to offering greater support to those who are more likely to suffer the virus.

It is doubly important to raise this issue now, in a period of prolonged racist Tory ideology.
Yes.

Let's counter racist Tory ideology by discussing the superiority of white genetics.
 

11101

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Yes.

Let's counter racist Tory ideology by discussing the superiority of white genetics.
Like it or not, there are genetic differences between races. Better to understand them properly than bury our heads in the sand and scream racism no?
 

jojojo

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Spain's daily report contains a running total table of cases, hospital admissions, ICU cases and deaths by age and sex.
Spain chart From:
https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesiona...ina/documentos/Actualizacion_113_COVID-19.pdf

Has anyone seen the equivalent summary for other countries? Anyone got links to them, particularly for the UK. But also for somewhere that got ahead on testing, and so will have a broader set that includes more of those who had minimal symptoms?

On Spain's figures, the age distribution of cases is particularly striking for the small number of children testing positive. Though obviously that's impacted by testing capability, particularly early in the epidemic.

In terms of deaths, it's the rise in death rate with age and sex that's notable. I've heard it stated before often enough, but it's useful to see someone put numbers on it.
 

11101

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Spain's daily report contains a running total table of cases, hospital admissions, ICU cases and deaths by age and sex.
Spain chart From:
https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesiona...ina/documentos/Actualizacion_113_COVID-19.pdf

Has anyone seen the equivalent summary for other countries? Anyone got links to them, particularly for the UK. But also for somewhere that got ahead on testing, and so will have a broader set that includes more of those who had minimal symptoms?

On Spain's figures, the age distribution of cases is particularly striking for the small number of children testing positive. Though obviously that's impacted by testing capability, particularly early in the epidemic.

In terms of deaths, it's the rise in death rate with age and sex that's notable. I've heard it stated before often enough, but it's useful to see someone put numbers on it.
It's not displayed in quite the same way, but Italy publishes case and death statistics here - https://www.epicentro.iss.it/
 

Steve Bruce

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Honestly, reading just that headline, that's probably lower than I expected considering the majority of Britain voted for Brexit and then for BoJo, meaning we can safely assume most Britain's are idiots.

1/5 is a decent return.
So because you didn't want brexit & your anti tory everyone else who disagrees with you are an idiot?

This is exactly why the UK is the way it is. No one can respect anyone else's different viewpoint.

I personally think that we had to candidates that weren't ideal and the UK voted for the least worse of the 2.
 

Wumminator

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So because you didn't want brexit & your anti tory everyone else who disagrees with you are an idiot?

This is exactly why the UK is the way it is. No one can respect anyone else's different viewpoint.

I personally think that we had to candidates that weren't ideal and the UK voted for the least worse of the 2.
The reason the UK is the way it is right now is because of the party that has been in control for the last decade. Somehow the majority have got it in their head that they are persecuted. The UK is not the way it is because someone said that Brexit voters are idiots, it is this way because we have an incompetent prime minister.
Plus - if you don’t think you should be called an idiot - sort out that appalling first sentence.
 

Steve Bruce

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Yes.

Let's counter racist Tory ideology by discussing the superiority of white genetics.
If white people where more likely to die from this, would your reaction be the same?

Everyone should be treated with the same levels of respect & have the same opportunities, but we have to acknowledge the differences as well.

Even the simplest tasks e.g You can't cut a black man's hair the same way you cut a white man's hair because it's different & needs to be cut differently.
 

Steve Bruce

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The reason the UK is the way it is right now is because of the party that has been in control for the last decade. Somehow the majority have got it in their head that they are persecuted. The UK is not the way it is because someone said that Brexit voters are idiots, it is this way because we have an incompetent prime minister.
Plus - if you don’t think you should be called an idiot - sort out that appalling first sentence.
The party that sold off all the gold at low prices and raided the pension reserves and the proceeded to ruin the economy before the torys took over created much of the hardship.

I'm no lover of either party but its laughable to lump all the blame on one party. Both are culpable for the way this country is over the last 2 decades.

In your last point, reading it back, I agree it wasn't a well formed sentence, but you have assumed I vote Conservative, I didn't. So I wasn't defending my fellow 'idiots' I was merely pointing out the lack of respect for those of opposing views. Using insults also defeats your argument (not you personally, anyone that uses insults)

I'll leave my last sentence though, I'm not here to perfect my grammar
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Genetic differences between races have been acknowledged and influenced treatment decisions in medicine for years. Have a look at any hypertension guideline. Would be madness not to at least consider them when trying to work out the best way to live with this virus.
Aye. Especially as we may land on something as simple as giving anyone in an ethnic risk group a huge shot of Vitamins to lower that risk.

BAME still fecks me off though. Take a person with dark skin from Trinidad, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Australia, Tonga. Absolute insanity to Wrap that up as ‘Black’ in statistics. They look nothing alike. They’re genetically different. They’re in different risk groups for all sorts of diseases.

Adding a wrapper that basically sees charts as ‘White and not White’ is lazy, racist and archaic. Yet the term is used by all. I really don’t get it, though I know I’m pissing into the wind.
 

RedRover

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thats interesting, then maybe those that have it and are asymptomatic may fall into this category?
Perhaps. The science is obviously all very fast moving. The whole T-cells thing is fascinating and hopefully there's something in it.

Some data yesterday (picked up by the UK press I think) suggests that even in the US states that have opened up the R number is coming down. Be interesting to know the theory behind that.
 

gormless

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Agreed. It's incredibly difficult to trust in his sincerity though. I noted that the one position guaranteed to gain him publicity while on stateside tv - being anti-gun - was the one he adopted.
On big issues such as gun control and this, he tends to be very good. The problem arises when there is no big issue and he becomes a pathetic man child crying about sausage rolls
 

yumtum

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So because you didn't want brexit & your anti tory everyone else who disagrees with you are an idiot?

This is exactly why the UK is the way it is. No one can respect anyone else's different viewpoint.

I personally think that we had to candidates that weren't ideal and the UK voted for the least worse of the 2.
First off, didn't mean to offend the genuine voters who had legitimate reasons for voting for Brexit, that's obviously their democratic right, I was referring to the ones who voted without using critical thinking, swallowing all the crap the likes of BoJo came out with regards to "taking back our borders", "we can now put £350m a week back into the NHS" (can't remember exact figure) - you get the picture.

As for voting Tory? Anyone who isn't well off and in the 1% shouldn't be voting for them, doesn't take a genius to recognise that Tory rule has been a bad thing overall for this country (unless you have a bit of cash), but unfortunately things won't change as the media love them - meaning the people who don't think for themselves will take what the media print as gospel.

Voting for Labour was a pain, and they were doomed to fail as they were an absolute shambles - I've actually mentioned on here to posters who criticised people for not voting Labour that it's not entirely their fault as Labour were pretty much unelectable.

Anyway, this is a football forum so I don't really want to argue politics, though I will apologise again for causing offence to you. :)
 

noodlehair

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I don't care about left or right wing policies at the moment as I don't think it makes any difference to how to deal with what's going on. It makes a difference to the position we were in leading up to this but there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

It's just quite disheartening that all the work scientists and experts are putting in to come up with a way to get people through this, is being undermined by the fact our politicians are, amazingly, too fecking stupid to do something as easy as simple relaying that information without constantly fecking it up.
 

noodlehair

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Shirley your man cummings has to resign like ferguson did?
He wont resign because he's the one in charge of deciding who has to resign.

Honestly he'd have Boris send the country to war if it was a choice between that and giving up his position. He's the most dangerous and stupid person we've had in government that I can think of and know anything about.

Only way he goes if if the rest of the Tories force him out, and that wont happen without a big struggle. He already got Boris to sack off all the ones that had a hint of a spine.
 

groovyalbert

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Shirley your man cummings has to resign like ferguson did?
He is arguably the most important figure driving this government. They'll fight tooth and nail to keep him around.

I reckon Boris will fear for his reign of Demonic Cummings is ousted.