Kai Havertz

[Acrobat7]

Coman’s a sick note, Müller plays centrally and a little deeper these days.

Yes, this. Coman can unfortunately not be trusted to stay healthy. I also doubt that he will take „the next step“.
That leaves Bayern with Coman (often injured), Gnabry (surprisingly good, but crap since the restart) and Perisic (on loan from Inter and underwhelming to put it nicely) on the wings.
Müller is not a winger and has found his wonderful spot roaming behind Lewandowski. Havertz would battle with Müller and Goretzka for a spot in the first team. Sané is much more needed for Bayern but they‘d be stupid to not fight for him. And they are not stupid.

Lewandowski
Sané Havertz Gnabry
Thiago Kimmich
Davies Alaba Süle Pavard(Dest)
Neuer

 

[Rozay]

He could also be deployed as a striker. Could play as a wide forward and his output has been pretty good on the flank. And like I mentioned in my previous post, he could also be deployed as #8.

And if we want to challenge for the league. We can't be in a situation where one injury to either Bruno or Pogba would significantly weaken us. We need a strong squad and top quality of player to come in to the side to keep the momentum going. Also not every player can play in all the games either.

All of those ‘coulds’ are unnecessary though. He could play on the wing, but so could an actual winger who would be better at it. Likewise, as a striker. The only reason you would want Havertz to do it specifically is because of all the things that make him Kai Havertz. Yet those things are needless if we have Pogba and Bruno too.

 

[Jericholyte2]

If we were somehow to get him and Sancho (FM lover can dream) I imagine we’d be playing a diamond with Havertz as a false 9 and Rashford and Sancho as wide forwards?

Rashford———————Sancho
——————Havertz——————
——Pogba—————Bruno——
———————McT———————

...poor McT!

 

[Ødegaard]

Going through the list of possible suitors that are rumored through transfermarkt:
I doubt Chelsea will buy more after Chilwell, Ziyech & Werner.
I doubt United will buy unless we sell Pogba, which I don't believe will happen this summer.
I doubt Bayern will buy with their focus being on Sane who I believe want to go there.
I doubt Liverpool will buy him to rotate with Firmino and their tactic is to have workhorses in midfield (not sure if he suits that running role).
Barcelona can't afford to bring him in.
That leaves Arsenal who are likely without Champions League football to offer.

Outside of those City could get him money-wise, and they have space in the first eleven for him next to KdB. But i think that if they are interested they would need to get rid of the CL ban or at least reduce it to 1 year.

I think he might end up staying at Leverkusen one more year to put himself in a great position next summer.
At that point he could have a lot of suitors:
Real Madrid would need a replacement for Modric.
United might need a replacement for Pogba if he ends up leaving.
Bayern will have more money available.
Barcelona could have sorted some of their money issues.
Chelsea could spend more money and be more certain about the players they have available for the midfield would need to be supplemented.
City would be down to one acceptable year outside of CL or without the ban.

His own contract would also be down to one more year, reducing his price and that could also help him get as good a deal as possible.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Havertz, Bruno and Pogba in one team is pointless. He either replaces one of the other two in the team or it makes little sense. There’s only one ball.

Disagree.

Bruno can easily play on the right of the three in a 4-2-3-1.

Pogba plays one of the two in the pivot and Havertz is the ten. Taking everything into consideration that’s a fecking good team and I would absolutely take that next season.

You don’t really lose anything by playing Bruno there and if that’s the alternative to Sancho I think most of us would take it.

 

[Adnan]

All of those ‘coulds’ are unnecessary though. He could play on the wing, but so could an actual winger who would be better at it. Likewise, as a striker. The only reason you would want Havertz to do it specifically is because of all the things that make him Kai Havertz. Yet those things are needless if we have Pogba and Bruno too.

To make a concerted effort for the league you need strength in depth or be extremely lucky with injuries. Neither scenario has been in our favour for many years now.

I want United to make a concerted effort for the league and adding a superb talent like Havertz to the existing bunch can only help. Sancho is also not a winger in the traditional sense. He's more a playmaker/scorer on the right side of a front three. And the reason I mentioned Havertz as someone that could potentially play as a right sided forward is due to Sancho not being able to play every game. So if Sancho can't play every game I'd rather have Havertz playing the role rather than Pereira or Lingard which is a major plus IMO. The same applies in several other roles. Havertz by the way has contributed 5 goals and 5 assists in 10 games as a right sided attacker.

So for me it comes down to having a real go at winning the league. And with signings like Sancho and Havertz we would get alot closer to the current pace setters. Havertz's versatility in attacking areas should be seen as a big positive due to his huge goal threat and all round ability.

 

[Rozay]

Disagree.

Bruno can easily play on the right of the three in a 4-2-3-1.

Pogba plays one of the two in the pivot and Havertz is the ten. Taking everything into consideration that’s a fecking good team and I would absolutely take that next season.

You don’t really lose anything by playing Bruno there and if that’s the alternative to Sancho I think most of us would take it.

This isn’t the point. We’re allowed XI players on the pitch, of course we could put anyone anywhere. We are talking about the reasons why you would put a particular player in a particular place. Would you play Havertz on the right despite him not being a winger so that his qualities of coming infield and linking play/creating can be utilised? We already have enough of those qualities infield, what we do lack are the more traditional qualities of a winger. We don’t need a Havertz on the right wing if we have a Pogba and Fernandes to the left of him. I mean in theory, we could play all three, and chuck Mata in the team too if we want to, but we wouldn’t want to. There is only one football. We do not need, nor will we probably be able to have Pogba, Bruno and Havertz all doing the things they are good at. I just don’t think it will be the best construction of a team.

I have no qualms of getting him of course because he’s a top player - but I think one of the three will end up on the bench if he were to join, which I’d have no problem with if we could balance the three of them somehow.

 

[kirk buttercup]

If we are ever going to do a big double signing it should be Sancho and Havertz. We would then have some the most devastating young players in the world with Rashford , Greenwood , Sancho , Havertz. We could change the shape and formation with these options lots of rotation . It would be so exciting. I don't see it happening , but If we did manage to pull this off I think we are title contenders again .

 

[Cliche Guevara]

This isn’t the point. We’re allowed XI players on the pitch, of course we could put anyone anywhere. We are talking about the reasons why you would put a particular player in a particular place. Would you play Havertz on the right despite him not being a winger so that his qualities of coming infield and linking play/creating can be utilised? We already have enough of those qualities infield, what we do lack are the more traditional qualities of a winger. We don’t need a Havertz on the right wing if we have a Pogba and Fernandes to the left of him. I mean in theory, we could play all three, and chuck Mata in the team too if we want to, but we wouldn’t want to. There is only one football. We do not need, nor will we probably be able to have Pogba, Bruno and Havertz all doing the things they are good at. I just don’t think it will be the best construction of a team.

I have no qualms of getting him of course because he’s a top player - but I think one of the three will end up on the bench if he were to join, which I’d have no problem with if we could balance the three of them somehow.

My point was Bruno would be right forward. That would work extremely well in my view.

Did you definitely mean to quote me?

 

[Rozay]

To make a concerted effort for the league you need strength in depth or be extremely lucky with injuries. Neither scenario has been in our favour for many years now.

I want United to make a concerted effort for the league and adding a superb talent like Havertz to the existing bunch can only help. Sancho is also not a winger in the traditional sense. He's more a playmaker/scorer on the right side of a front three. And the reason I mentioned Havertz as someone that could potentially play as a right sided forward is due to Sancho not being able to play every game. So if Sancho can't play every game I'd rather have Havertz playing the role rather than Pereira or Lingard which is a major plus IMO. The same applies in several other roles. Havertz by the way has contributed 5 goals and 5 assists in 10 games as a right sided attacker.

So for me it comes down to having a real go at winning the league. And with signings like Sancho and Havertz we would get alot closer to the current pace setters. Havertz's versatility in attacking areas should be seen as a big positive due to his huge goal threat and all round ability.

It’s more important that you have an actual good team than it is you have strength in depth if you want to win the league. If, when you field your best XI, they are not that good/balanced anyway - then chances are you will win nothing, unless you actually het lucky by having injuries which force you to fond balance. Nobody is suggesting playing Lingard or Pereira if Sancho were injured. Not sure why you would mention them instead of Greenwood and James.

I’d like us to have depth in the middle too, which I suspect the likes of McTominay/Fred will contribute to. I think we should sign additional cover, and get rid of the two jokers we currently have, but I also don’t think we should change our team every game, and I think Havertz at 100m is not the cover you buy. We’d be far better off buying a different type of midfielder if you want to throw that kind of money around, rather than tripling down on another replica of the two best midfielders you already have in the first place, while having a huge disparity in quality to your other type of midfielders.

I have nothing against Havertz, I’m a fan. If Pogba were to leave, I’d be all for it. But there are already question marks as to whether we sh be playing Bruno and Pogba together as it is, let alone adding another one. Why not go and spend 100m on Saúl or someone of a different profile who will compliment them? Or Camavinga perhaps?

I’d take Havertz as a greedy fan. I’d take Havertz and then take Odegaard the following week because I like them. I’d have no issue with us buying him, but it doesn’t make sense to me unless Pogba is leaving within the next 12 months. Personally, if he joined, I’d expect Bruno to be on the bench anyway, not Pogba - as Pogba is the one of the three that Ole will likely play in his double pivot, and I’d expect Havertz to prove to be a better 10 than Bruno.

 

[Rozay]

My point was Bruno would be right forward. That would work extremely well in my view.

Did you definitely mean to quote me?

I don’t think Bruno has shown any qualities of a right forward personally. If we passed on buying Sancho and ended up playing Bruno at RW all season I’d be a little displeased.

And I think I did.

I just think we are so close now, and a proper right sided player would take us up a notch. Let’s apply some proper team planning rather than get seduced by a new talent in what is literally our strongest area of the team.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

I don’t think Bruno has shown any qualities of a right forward personally. If we passed on buying Sancho and ended up playing Bruno at RW all season I’d be a little displeased.

And I think I did.

I just think we are so close now, and a proper right sided player would take us up a notch. Let’s apply some proper team planning rather than get seduced by a new talent in what is literally our strongest area of the team.

Yeah I think if we literally had two choices:

Bruno #10 Sancho RW

Havertz #10 Bruno RW

I’d be pretty delighted and confident either would work well and be a significant upgrade.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

This thread is surprisingly getting alot of attention. Very little chance we would sign him

 

[Mr Smith]

Disagree.

Bruno can easily play on the right of the three in a 4-2-3-1.

Pogba plays one of the two in the pivot and Havertz is the ten. Taking everything into consideration that’s a fecking good team and I would absolutely take that next season.

You don’t really lose anything by playing Bruno there and if that’s the alternative to Sancho I think most of us would take it.

Actually we'd likely lose a lot. Bruno would constantly be coming inside, so we'd have no width on the right once again, and congestion in the middle. His goal threat would also likely be reduced.

Actually can't think of a worse idea than to shift a new signing who's been our best player since joining out to the right to accomodate another player who doesn't necessarily offer anything better.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Going through the list of possible suitors that are rumored through transfermarkt:
I doubt Chelsea will buy more after Chilwell, Ziyech & Werner.
I doubt United will buy unless we sell Pogba, which I don't believe will happen this summer.
I doubt Bayern will buy with their focus being on Sane who I believe want to go there.
I doubt Liverpool will buy him to rotate with Firmino and their tactic is to have workhorses in midfield (not sure if he suits that running role).
Barcelona can't afford to bring him in.
That leaves Arsenal who are likely without Champions League football to offer.

Outside of those City could get him money-wise, and they have space in the first eleven for him next to KdB. But i think that if they are interested they would need to get rid of the CL ban or at least reduce it to 1 year.

I think he might end up staying at Leverkusen one more year to put himself in a great position next summer.
At that point he could have a lot of suitors:
Real Madrid would need a replacement for Modric.
United might need a replacement for Pogba if he ends up leaving.
Bayern will have more money available.
Barcelona could have sorted some of their money issues.
Chelsea could spend more money and be more certain about the players they have available for the midfield would need to be supplemented.
City would be down to one acceptable year outside of CL or without the ban.

His own contract would also be down to one more year, reducing his price and that could also help him get as good a deal as possible.

I think you're underestimating Chelsea's financial muscle - Chelsea are still sitting on ~€20m from recent sales alone (Ziyech+Werner+Kovacic = €135m; Hazard + Morata = €155m). This is notwithstanding the normal transfer budget that has been stockpiled over the past two windows (likely on the order of ~€150-180m in total), the additional player sales anticipated to go through (e.g. Pasalic to Atalanta for €15m, Bakayoko, Barkley, Moses, Alonso, Emerson, Batshuayi, & other various loan army players potentially leaving), large wages coming off the bill in the form of Willian and Pedro, and the potential to sell Kante for at minimum €80m. If Marina works her magic, there's a world in which Chelsea still have ~€300-350m to spend after the Werner and Ziyech deals.

Certainly we can afford Havertz without breaking the budget; if he wants to leave Germany then we seem the likeliest destination. Also, apparently he and Werner are close and have expressed an interest in playing together at club level, so make of that what you will.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Actually we'd likely lose a lot. Bruno would constantly be coming inside, so we'd have no width on the right once again, and congestion in the middle. His goal threat would also likely be reduced.

Actually can't think of a worse idea than to shift a new signing who's been our best player since joining out to the right to accomodate another player who doesn't necessarily offer anything better.

Bruno has already proven to be effective as a creator from the right.

And make up your mind, if he drifts inside how do we lose his goal threat?

This is also to accommodate Havertz who you don’t think offers anything better to the team on balance as it currently stands?

 

[El-Manos]

Is he a number 10?

 

[Ødegaard]

I think you're underestimating Chelsea's financial muscle - Chelsea are still sitting on ~€20m from recent sales alone (Ziyech+Werner+Kovacic = €135m; Hazard + Morata = €155m). This is notwithstanding the normal transfer budget that has been stockpiled over the past two windows (likely on the order of ~€150-180m in total), the additional player sales anticipated to go through (e.g. Pasalic to Atalanta for €15m, Bakayoko, Barkley, Moses, Alonso, Emerson, Batshuayi, & other various loan army players potentially leaving), large wages coming off the bill in the form of Willian and Pedro, and the potential to sell Kante for at minimum €80m. If Marina works her magic, there's a world in which Chelsea still have ~€300-350m to spend after the Werner and Ziyech deals.

Certainly we can afford Havertz without breaking the budget; if he wants to leave Germany then we seem the likeliest destination. Also, apparently he and Werner are close and have expressed an interest in playing together at club level, so make of that what you will.

I'm not trying to say that I think Chelsea can't afford it, but I'm doubting that they'll splash more cash in the window beyond Werner, Chilwell and Ziyech. But the reason I think that is mostly because of a now old conversation I had with a friend who told me something about the Hazard money not being counted towards what they spend during this window for FFP. It might be that I'm misinformed on that part as I don't often look into stuff with ffp unless it is for something I'm especially interested in.

I don't doubt, assuming what you've written is correct, that Chelsea can afford him, but it doesn't really change that he has a likely much better financial deal coming if he leaves in another year.
Taking your information into account I'd say he's more likely to go to Chelsea than any of the other clubs if he moves.


That said, won't Chelsea need a central defender first and foremost? Do you guys have any CB you are looking at? And wouldn't it be weird to buy a attacking midfielder when the club has talents like Gilmour & Mount who seem trusted by Lampard? Or have I maybe missed something from last season? Not that it wouldn't make sense, but I think it would undermine Mount at the very least.

 

[Mr Smith]

Bruno has already proven to be effective as a creator from the right.

And make up your mind, if he drifts inside how do we lose his goal threat?

This is also to accommodate Havertz who you don’t think offers anything better to the team on balance as it currently stands?

If he starts on the right, he'll naturally drift inside to become involved in the play, and will be taking up the same zones as Havertz/Pogba. Which means less space to shoot because there will already be so much congestion. Space is the most important factor for a goalscoring midfielder. Also because he'll be forced to constantly come back to the right to cover his man. We've seen this before with Mata; I'd rather not repeat the same mistakes.

I more meant in the sense that we already know Bruno is an excellent player who has adapted well to the league. Havertz is 21 and has never played outside of Germany. I believe he's probably more talented than Bruno, but I'm not convinced he'll adapt as quickly or as easily. So basically I don't see the logic of shifting a signing who is already working out wide to accomodate a similar player, when we don't know if he'll be as effective. I just generally think it's bonkers to try and fit 3 playmakers into the same side.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I'm not trying to say that I think Chelsea can't afford it, but I'm doubting that they'll splash more cash in the window beyond Werner, Chilwell and Ziyech. But the reason I think that is mostly because of a now old conversation I had with a friend who told me something about the Hazard money not being counted towards what they spend during this window for FFP. It might be that I'm misinformed on that part as I don't often look into stuff with ffp unless it is for something I'm especially interested in.

I don't doubt, assuming what you've written is correct, that Chelsea can afford him, but it doesn't really change that he has a likely much better financial deal coming if he leaves in another year.
Taking your information into account I'd say he's more likely to go to Chelsea than any of the other clubs if he moves.


That said, won't Chelsea need a central defender first and foremost? Do you guys have any CB you are looking at? And wouldn't it be weird to buy a attacking midfielder when the club has talents like Gilmour & Mount who seem trusted by Lampard? Or have I maybe missed something from last season? Not that it wouldn't make sense, but I think it would undermine Mount at the very least.

No worries! Apologies if I came across as hostile in any way; certainly that wasn't my intent.

I'm afraid I'm not sure about your mate's point re: the Hazard money and FFP - because the deal went through last summer and Chelsea were banned, that has in effect left a large stockpile of cash for transfers even before accounting for the usual budget. Morata's transfer hasn't actually gone through yet; it was a loan with an obligation to buy this summer (and more or less offsets the Werner deal).

With regards to Havertz, Chelsea have historically been willing to give out extremely competitive contracts in terms of wages - almost certainly exceeding terms given by Bayern, for instance. If Havertz had only 1 year left on his deal then potentially he'd be in line for a large signing bonus, but if he stays at Leverkusen only to leave for Bayern next summer he wouldn't be eligible for this sort of windfall. As it stands though he still has 2 years to go though, hence why Leverkusen are open to a sale now instead of being strongarmed by Bayern next summer.

In terms of Chelsea's squad makeup, a CB is potentially needed but frankly I'm not sure there is any value in the current market. If Koulibaly is available then yes of course he's an upgrade, but I'm really unsure of what other viable options there are. Just as a for instance (and perhaps this is bias) but I don't really view Upamecano as a significant upgrade over the current options, especially when the price quoted is ~€70m+.

Also just as a final point of clarification, Gilmour isn't an attacking midfielder, he's a deep lying playmaker a la Jorginho. He's certainly a bit more mobile but is absolutely not suited to play as a 10 - he's viewed as the long term successor at the 6. With regards to Mount, I think he's a brilliant squad player but I'm not sure how high his ceiling is - his versatility / ability to play multiple positions and tenacity in and out of possession ensures that he'll always be highly valued. For me he's very much akin to Ji Sung Park - a player you always want in your squad but if you're counting on him to play as an integral cog of the attack you're limiting the ceiling of your team.

 

[Adnan]

It’s more important that you have an actual good team than it is you have strength in depth if you want to win the league. If, when you field your best XI, they are not that good/balanced anyway - then chances are you will win nothing, unless you actually het lucky by having injuries which force you to fond balance. Nobody is suggesting playing Lingard or Pereira if Sancho were injured. Not sure why you would mention them instead of Greenwood and James.

I’d like us to have depth in the middle too, which I suspect the likes of McTominay/Fred will contribute to. I think we should sign additional cover, and get rid of the two jokers we currently have, but I also don’t think we should change our team every game, and I think Havertz at 100m is not the cover you buy. We’d be far better off buying a different type of midfielder if you want to throw that kind of money around, rather than tripling down on another replica of the two best midfielders you already have in the first place, while having a huge disparity in quality to your other type of midfielders.

I have nothing against Havertz, I’m a fan. If Pogba were to leave, I’d be all for it. But there are already question marks as to whether we sh be playing Bruno and Pogba together as it is, let alone adding another one. Why not go and spend 100m on Saúl or someone of a different profile who will compliment them? Or Camavinga perhaps?

I’d take Havertz as a greedy fan. I’d take Havertz and then take Odegaard the following week because I like them. I’d have no issue with us buying him, but it doesn’t make sense to me unless Pogba is leaving within the next 12 months. Personally, if he joined, I’d expect Bruno to be on the bench anyway, not Pogba - as Pogba is the one of the three that Ole will likely play in his double pivot, and I’d expect Havertz to prove to be a better 10 than Bruno.

Strength in depth = having a very good first 11. Name a big team that has strength in depth but doesn't have a good team?

James, Mason, Lingard and Pereira aren't anywhere near the quality of Havertz in a right sided attacking role. Not only does the German score plenty but he influences the game at a high level consistently from the role . The drop in quality from Sancho to the aforementioned 4 would be huge compared to Havertz. Mason might become that player in a few years but he's not of the same standard as the young German as a right sided attacker right now.

We've had a faltering attack for many years now. We've struggled to break down deep defending teams consistently. We've struggled to impose our game in a proactive sense for too long. We can't sustain attacks because we don't have the quality like we did in the past. And the reason for that is due to the players in a number of attacking roles not being good enough for a club with our aspirations. Adding quality like Havertz would improve us on the aforementioned aspects IMO. And like Fergie said, "If a player comes on the market that we feel we can't miss out on, we will attempt to sign him and think about the rest later". And Havertz does fit the criteria of player Fergie was alluding to.

There is no question marks as far as I'm concerned regarding the suitability of Pogba and Fernandes in the same line up. I've been hoping to see two ball players in tandem in central areas for too long now. It's about time we imposed our game on the opposition rather than play the reactive football we've seen for many years now.

Of course I'd take Camavinga over Havertz to play as our #6. But it seems like the man in charge (Ole) has his targets and possibly sees things differently if the reported midfield targets (Havertz, Grealish, VdB) are anything to go by. Ole also sees the wider picture and sees the players in training on a somewhat daily basis. Maybe he feels one of the players already at the club could be developed as the longterm DM? Maybe he feels spending £100m on Saul isn't a very prudent move when there's a young 17 Year old French player at the club who plays in a similar role and has huge potential?

The above could possibly explain why he would target the likes of Havertz, Grealish or VdB and make our attack potentially devastating on paper while he brings through the likes of Mejbri and Garner to develop the base of the midfield.

 

[Deery]

He’s the type of player fans would fall in love with more than Sancho, he’s got that special something which isn’t seen very often..

 

[Red Star One]

I am all sold on this guy, he has quite everything to be among the best midfielders in the world for years, if he indeed comes here and Pogba leaves I am happy to take it.

 

[RUCK4444]

Are there any real credible links or is this wishful thinking? I’ve had a quick look through but nothing concrete sticks out.

 

[elnorte]

. A bit like De Ligt. We know Barcelona would have been first choice if they paid up and there was space for him. Similarly Bayern would be first choice for Havertz if they could pay up and guarantee him starting place.

I would say Bayern ( but they probably want it to happen next year )
Chelsea is a possibility after that. And then possibly us but that would depend on the Sancho coming to United or Pogba leaving . So in a Nutshell , I like most journalist haven't got a clue where he will end up. But that would be my guess

Thanks guys. When it rains it pours!

 

[Adnan]

Are there any real credible links or is this wishful thinking? I’ve had a quick look through but nothing concrete sticks out.

It's been reported by a few very reputable Journos that we're interested in Havertz or Grealish with VdB as the fall back option who will cost considerably less.

I think we're gonna first try and attempt to conclude the Sancho deal and then evaluate where we're at budget wise before choosing which of the 3 potential central targets we opt for.

 

[El Jefe]

To make a concerted effort for the league you need strength in depth or be extremely lucky with injuries. Neither scenario has been in our favour for many years now.

I want United to make a concerted effort for the league and adding a superb talent like Havertz to the existing bunch can only help. Sancho is also not a winger in the traditional sense. He's more a playmaker/scorer on the right side of a front three. And the reason I mentioned Havertz as someone that could potentially play as a right sided forward is due to Sancho not being able to play every game. So if Sancho can't play every game I'd rather have Havertz playing the role rather than Pereira or Lingard which is a major plus IMO. The same applies in several other roles. Havertz by the way has contributed 5 goals and 5 assists in 10 games as a right sided attacker.

So for me it comes down to having a real go at winning the league. And with signings like Sancho and Havertz we would get alot closer to the current pace setters. Havertz's versatility in attacking areas should be seen as a big positive due to his huge goal threat and all round ability.

It's bad enough not knowing how Pogba and Bruno fit into the side effectively, adding Havertz to that along with Sancho doesn't seem sensible to me. Yes you do need a great squad but it also helps if those players play in a clear system in their best positions.

Barcelona is a clear example of the downside of buying top players and not putting them in their best positions and hoping for the best. You pay £100m for a player to start every game in a set role rather than freestyling it on a game to game basis. No doubt we'll be doing the former with Sancho.

A strong squad is a good option to have of course but not knowing how to fit players into a team isn't. When we signed Kagawa questions were raised on how we'd play him alongside RVP and Rooney and in the end it didn't work out. Same thing with Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and RVP, again it didn't work. Another example is when we signed Sanchez, posters said he could play on the right or Martial or Rashford could move there, again that was another failed experiment which did nothing but unbalance the team and affect morale. We have a working formula at the moment all it needs is a top class right sided attacker.

You look at the best sides in the league or title winning teams and their first 11's are almost always set in stone with every player in their best role.

 

[Marcus]

Reminds me a lot of Kaka.

 

[Adnan]

It's bad enough not knowing how Pogba and Bruno fit into the side effectively, adding Havertz to that along with Sancho doesn't seem sensible to me. Yes you do need a great squad but it also helps if those players play in a clear system in their best positions.

Barcelona is a clear example of the downside of buying top players and not putting them in their best positions and hoping for the best. You pay £100m for a player to start every game in a set role rather than freestyling it on a game to game basis. No doubt we'll be doing the former with Sancho.

A strong squad is a good option to have of course but not knowing how to fit players into a team isn't. When we signed Kagawa questions were raised on how we'd play him alongside RVP and Rooney and in the end it didn't work out. Same thing with Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and RVP, again it didn't work. Another example is when we signed Sanchez, posters said he could play on the right or Martial or Rashford could move there, again that was another failed experiment which did nothing but unbalance the team and affect morale. We have a working formula at the moment all it needs is a top class right sided attacker.

You look at the best sides in the league or title winning teams and their first 11's are almost always set in stone with every player in their best role.

It's a very good problem to have. Havertz can play as the false #9 and IMO would cause havoc for opposing defenses. He then provides the option of dropping deeper and exchanging roles with Fernandes which would make us a even bigger threat and a nightmare for opponents to pick up. We wanted to sign Haland as the central striker and for me Havertz can play the same role but in a different way due to the differing play style/attributes of both players respectively.

I also feel Solskjaer has a very clear plan on how to utilise either Havertz or Grealish. And maybe Solskjaer knows that Pogba won't renew and he will be gone next season so moving early for a prospective target will be to our advantage.

 

[croadyman]

He's a good journo and worth listening to imo. And from my understanding of what's being reported, it looks like it will be Sancho and one of Havertz, Grealish or VdB that will be bought.

I think we will only look at Havertz, Grealish or Van Der Beek if we sell Pogba. This sort of links in to what Robson & Ducker were saying

 

[croadyman]

It’s more important that you have an actual good team than it is you have strength in depth if you want to win the league. If, when you field your best XI, they are not that good/balanced anyway - then chances are you will win nothing, unless you actually het lucky by having injuries which force you to fond balance. Nobody is suggesting playing Lingard or Pereira if Sancho were injured. Not sure why you would mention them instead of Greenwood and James.

I’d like us to have depth in the middle too, which I suspect the likes of McTominay/Fred will contribute to. I think we should sign additional cover, and get rid of the two jokers we currently have, but I also don’t think we should change our team every game, and I think Havertz at 100m is not the cover you buy. We’d be far better off buying a different type of midfielder if you want to throw that kind of money around, rather than tripling down on another replica of the two best midfielders you already have in the first place, while having a huge disparity in quality to your other type of midfielders.

I have nothing against Havertz, I’m a fan. If Pogba were to leave, I’d be all for it. But there are already question marks as to whether we sh be playing Bruno and Pogba together as it is, let alone adding another one. Why not go and spend 100m on Saúl or someone of a different profile who will compliment them? Or Camavinga perhaps?

I’d take Havertz as a greedy fan. I’d take Havertz and then take Odegaard the following week because I like them. I’d have no issue with us buying him, but it doesn’t make sense to me unless Pogba is leaving within the next 12 months. Personally, if he joined, I’d expect Bruno to be on the bench anyway, not Pogba - as Pogba is the one of the three that Ole will likely play in his double pivot, and I’d expect Havertz to prove to be a better 10 than Bruno.

Yeah Saul would be an absolute dream signing but that's all it will ever be with that ridiculously long contract he has at Atletico.

 

[Adnan]

I think we will only look at Havertz, Grealish or Van Der Beek if we sell Pogba. This sort of links in to what Robson & Ducker were saying

Ducker said it depends on Pogba's future. Eventhough I'm a big believer in the abilities of Pogba I feel we need to grab the bull by the horns and ratify what Pogba's intentions are. A club of our standing should stamp their authority here and plan accordingly. Maybe we already know the players intention?

 

[SinNombre]

Ducker said it depends on Pogba's future. Eventhough I'm a big believer in the abilities of Pogba I feel we need to grab the bull by the horns and ratify what Pogba's intentions are. A club of our standing should stamp their authority here and plan accordingly. Maybe we already know the players intention?

Very much reading tea leaves but feels like Pogba will stay for another season and then leave after Euro 2021 (assuming we make the CL one way or the other).

Havertz would make a lot of sense in that scenario.

Not sure if a deal like Keita has been discussed on here already. We have a price agreed with Bayer and pay the first 10m or so and loan him back for one season.

 

[croadyman]

Very much reading tea leaves but feels like Pogba will stay for another season and then leave after Euro 2021 (assuming we make the CL one way or the other).

Havertz would make a lot of sense in that scenario.

Not sure if a deal like Keita has been discussed on here already. We have a price agreed with Bayer and pay the first 10m or so and loan him back for one season.

Yeah it's pointless people posting lineups that include Havertz & Pogba because no way we can afford to keep one and buy the other.

Do not expect talk of Grealish or Van Der Beek to pick up again either unless Pogba clearly wants to leave

 

[Ødegaard]

No worries! Apologies if I came across as hostile in any way; certainly that wasn't my intent.

I'm afraid I'm not sure about your mate's point re: the Hazard money and FFP - because the deal went through last summer and Chelsea were banned, that has in effect left a large stockpile of cash for transfers even before accounting for the usual budget. Morata's transfer hasn't actually gone through yet; it was a loan with an obligation to buy this summer (and more or less offsets the Werner deal).

With regards to Havertz, Chelsea have historically been willing to give out extremely competitive contracts in terms of wages - almost certainly exceeding terms given by Bayern, for instance. If Havertz had only 1 year left on his deal then potentially he'd be in line for a large signing bonus, but if he stays at Leverkusen only to leave for Bayern next summer he wouldn't be eligible for this sort of windfall. As it stands though he still has 2 years to go though, hence why Leverkusen are open to a sale now instead of being strongarmed by Bayern next summer.

In terms of Chelsea's squad makeup, a CB is potentially needed but frankly I'm not sure there is any value in the current market. If Koulibaly is available then yes of course he's an upgrade, but I'm really unsure of what other viable options there are. Just as a for instance (and perhaps this is bias) but I don't really view Upamecano as a significant upgrade over the current options, especially when the price quoted is ~€70m+.

Also just as a final point of clarification, Gilmour isn't an attacking midfielder, he's a deep lying playmaker a la Jorginho. He's certainly a bit more mobile but is absolutely not suited to play as a 10 - he's viewed as the long term successor at the 6. With regards to Mount, I think he's a brilliant squad player but I'm not sure how high his ceiling is - his versatility / ability to play multiple positions and tenacity in and out of possession ensures that he'll always be highly valued. For me he's very much akin to Ji Sung Park - a player you always want in your squad but if you're counting on him to play as an integral cog of the attack you're limiting the ceiling of your team.

Thanks for the post, it's been quite informative.
I didn't find you hostile in any of your posts.

 

[RUCK4444]

It's been reported by a few very reputable Journos that we're interested in Havertz or Grealish with VdB as the fall back option who will cost considerably less.

I think we're gonna first try and attempt to conclude the Sancho deal and then evaluate where we're at budget wise before choosing which of the 3 potential central targets we opt for.

Ah ok, thanks for summary bud

 

[charlenefan]

This thread is surprisingly getting alot of attention. Very little chance we would sign him

I dunno we've been linked to a few players like him over the last 6 months

Maddison
Grealish
Havertz
Van De Beek

Now maybe there's nothing in any of these, maybe they were all dependant on Pogba leaving, maybe they were all old links only surfacing after we bought Bruno, who knows but maybe we really are after this kind of player

You need game changers to bring in off the bench to win the league, you're not going to do it with your first choice starting XI alone and bringing in another player like this reminds of of when City signed Bernardo Silva despite already having David Silva and De Bruyne. It's also smart future planning as it's unlikely Pogba's going to be around forever

 

[Riz]

He could also be deployed as a striker. Could play as a wide forward and his output has been pretty good on the flank. And like I mentioned in my previous post, he could also be deployed as #8.

And if we want to challenge for the league. We can't be in a situation where one injury to either Bruno or Pogba would significantly weaken us. We need a strong squad and top quality of player to come in to the side to keep the momentum going. Also not every player can play in all the games either.

I see where you’re coming from but we’ve got other priorities to use that amount of money on if we do plan on spending to that extent (assuming Sancho is the priority target for the right wing). It’s like saying we can’t be in a situation where one injury to Maguire would significantly weaken us. In that scenario a centre back pairing of Lindelof and Bailly is far more worrying to me than Fred or McT stepping into midfield.

 

[Red Company]

Reminds me a lot of Kaka.

Totally agree with this comparison!

Would be great to bring a talent similar to Kaka’s level to the PL at such a young age.

He’ll have enough time to settle in and hopefully not trend a downward spiral like the one Kaka went on at Madrid.
In the likelihood that Havertz does it find tough (highly doubt it though), he’d still have a huge resale value for years to come.

As long as he doesn’t get injured as often as Pogba has for instance, I’m sure he’ll settle in just fine.

 

[El Jefe]

It's a very good problem to have. Havertz can play as the false #9 and IMO would cause havoc for opposing defenses. He then provides the option of dropping deeper and exchanging roles with Fernandes which would make us a even bigger threat and a nightmare for opponents to pick up. We wanted to sign Haland as the central striker and for me Havertz can play the same role but in a different way due to the differing play style/attributes of both players respectively.

I also feel Solskjaer has a very clear plan on how to utilise either Havertz or Grealish. And maybe Solskjaer knows that Pogba won't renew and he will be gone next season so moving early for a prospective target will be to our advantage.

The person that loses out the most in this scenario is Greenwood and that's another reason I'm against it. Currently he has a realistic path to the first team and that still doesn't change too much if we sign Sancho. He's either the first or second attacking substitution. If we add Havertz, he'll be behind Martial and given the type of game could be behind Ighalo or James. His opportunities become far more limited. He's the best talent we've had at the club since Pogba and if developed correctly could be what you think Haaland or Havertz could be for us.

IMO Martial and Greenwood keep improving, we need to bet on our own that they will rise to the level we need. Martial was going to hit 20 goals for the first time and Greenwood no less than 15 before the lockdown.

I do agree that if Pogba is leaving, we can sign him but if not I think we'll be overdoing things.