2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

[FootballHQ]

As the article says, when the striker cannot follow instructions, what do you do?

Didn't they do due dillegence on him e.g talk to someone who played with him at Marseille and asked what he was like in training?

I saw him a lot and he reminded me of Darren Bent. Very good at making runs across six yard box and scoring tap ins but was pretty poor at hold up play with his back to goal on edge of the box, so often it would just bobble off his shins and they'd lose possesion. From what I've seen it's been the same at Chelsea.

Same as when I saw Bakayoko constantly pass to Juventus players in the champions league. Chelsea seemed to ignore that, sign him for 30m and quickly bench him when they realised five games later he wasn't very good at passing.

Had a really odd transfer window in 2017.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Yeah he still has some value to his name in Spain I think. Depends on Oblaks contract situation.

Chelsea certainly like Oblak; the same summer we bought Kepa we made the same offer to Atleti - word is they were open to the sale but Oblak wasn't keen as we weren't in the CL. Maybe if Atleti finish outside the CL places Chelsea will have a chance? There were murmurings of a Kepa + cash deal earlier this season.

He's under contract until 2023, has a €120m release clause.

 

[Dancfc]

Didn't they do due dillegence on him e.g talk to someone who played with him at Marseille and asked what he was like in training?

I saw him a lot and he reminded me of Darren Bent. Very good at making runs across six yard box and scoring tap ins but was pretty poor at hold up play with his back to goal on edge of the box, so often it would just bobble off his shins and they'd lose possesion. From what I've seen it's been the same at Chelsea.

Same as when I saw Bakayoko constantly pass to Juventus players in the champions league. Chelsea seemed to ignore that, sign him for 30m and quickly bench him when they realised five games later he wasn't very good at passing.

Had a really odd transfer window in 2017.

It goes in line with Conte's record in the market really. His signings at Inter have been equally as strange.

 

[WeePat]

Chelsea certainly like Oblak; the same summer we bought Kepa we made the same offer to Atleti - word is they were open to the sale but Oblak wasn't keen as we weren't in the CL. Maybe if Atleti finish outside the CL places Chelsea will have a chance? There were murmurings of a Kepa + cash deal earlier this season.

He's under contract until 2023, has a €120m release clause.

Chelsea should forget about Oblak. His release clause is insane. It's inconceivable that Chelsea would spend that kind of money on a keeper, especially after ending up getting badly burnt on the Kepa deal.

 

[WeePat]

It goes in line with Conte's record in the market really. His signings at Inter have been equally as strange.

How many of Conte's first choice targets did we actually sign that summer? We ended up with Morata after chasing Lukaku all summer. We chased Alex Sandro all summer, we ended up with Emerson. There was lots of talk surrounding Bonucci, Koulibaly and Van Dijk, we signed Rudiger.

 

[Dancfc]

How many of Conte's first choice targets did we actually sign that summer? We ended up with Morata after chasing Lukaku all summer. We chased Alex Sandro all summer, we ended up with Emerson. There was lots of talk surrounding Bonucci, Koulibaly and Van Dijk, we signed Rudiger.

Manager's getting all their plan A's are very rare (especially when said plan A's would break transfer record's as pretty much all of his would have for their respective positions) so they should still be judged by how well they improvise. For example, do you think recently relegated Wijnaldium was Klopp's first choice target in a summer Kante was available? Also if we bowed to Conte's wishes we'd be the one's stuck with Alexis, who he has even more remarkably gone and signed at Inter.

Antonio has many strength's as a manager but the market is not one of them.

 

[WeePat]

Manager's getting all their plan A's are very rare (especially when said plan A's would break transfer record's as pretty much all of his would have for their respective positions) so they should still be judged by how well they improvise. For example, do you think recently relegated Wijnaldium was Klopp's first choice target in a summer Kante was available? Also if we bowed to Conte's wishes we'd be the one's stuck with Alexis, who he has even more remarkably gone and signed at Inter.

Antonio has many strength's as a manager but the market is not one of them.

Chelsea failed to get any of the first choice targets that summer. I fully understand the need to improvise when you don't get the first choice targets, considering they were everybody else's first choice too, but we can't really get on Conte for his poor squad building if the alternatives provided the club were Morata, Emerson, Zappacosta, Bakayoko and Drinkwater.

It's safe to say whatever was going on at the club in 2017 between Conte and the board, it didn't translate well in terms of actual transfers and the performance in the season that followed.

It's why I'm excited for next season, because the manager and board appear to be much more in sync than they have been in years.

 

[Dancfc]

Chelsea failed to get any of the first choice targets that summer. I fully understand the need to improvise when you don't the first choice targets, considering they were everybody else's first choice too, but we can't really get on Conte for his poor squad building if the alternatives provided the club were Morata, Emerson, Zappacosta, Bakayoko and Drinkwater.

It's safe to say whatever was going on at the cub in 2017 between Conte and the board, it didn't translate well in terms of actual transfers and the performance in the season that followed.

I could get on board with that if Conte had an overall decent record in the market but his record so far at Inter is just as tragic and he signed his fair share of flops at Juve aswell (Bendtner, past his prime Anelka prime examples). Then compare that to our record since he's left which Kepa aside has been pretty much spot on.

Furthermore we have the best academy in the world, if he was really that pissed off with the options avalible to him from plan B downwards in the market he could have given some of our boys a shot, Mount performed well on his loan that season and could have played a part while James/Tammy both looked ready to contribute even then, not to mention RLC was already in the first team.

 

[WeePat]

I could get on board with that if Conte had an overall decent record in the market but his record so far at Inter is just as tragic and he signed his fair share of flops at Juve aswell (Bendtner, past his prime Anelka prime examples). Then compare that to our record since he's left which Kepa aside has been pretty much spot on.

Furthermore we have the best academy in the world, if he was really that pissed off with the options avalible to him from plan B downwards in the market he could have given some of our boys a shot, Mount performed well on his loan that season and could have played a part while James/Tammy both looked ready to contribute even then, not to mention RLC was already in the first team.

On reflection, I'd love know how we can confidently differentiate between a manager signing and a board signing. Chelsea fans appear very eager to assign bad transfers to the party they prefer to blame, and the good transfer to the party they prefer to absolve or praise. I've been guilty of this too.

 

[Dancfc]

On reflection, I'd love know how we can confidently differentiate between a manager signing and a board signing. Chelsea fans appear very eager to assign bad transfers to the party they prefer to blame, and the good transfer to the party they prefer to absolve or praise. I've been guilty of this too.

Speaking for Conte he usually made it clear with his selections, for example would he have given Baka the amount of chances he got if he was a board signing? I'd wager he'd have been disgarded and largely ignored ala Michy. I do agree with your general point though, from what i can gather Lampard and the board meet in the middle and have a good working relationship which is good.

 

[romufc]

Furthermore we have the best academy in the world,

You can have the best academy in the world but one of the poorest passageways into the first team.

I know you will give me names such as CHO, Tammy, Mount, Tomori, James, RLC who are really good players and Frank has had to play them this season.

Lets see how many of them start for Chelsea next season once Ziyech, Werner and others sign.

 

[duffer]

You can have the best academy in the world but one of the poorest passageways into the first team.

I know you will give me names such as CHO, Tammy, Mount, Tomori, James, RLC who are really good players and Frank has had to play them this season.

Lets see how many of them start for Chelsea next season once Ziyech, Werner and others sign.

We sold Luiz because Frank had faith in Tomori & Christensen. Pulisic got benched for long periods because he had faith in Mount. The captain got dropped at times for James and a world cup winning centre forward got dropped for Tammy.

As it is, we've only signed Ziyech and Werner (looks 99% done). We're losing Pedro, Willian and almost certainly Bats.

If we buy a lot of players then of course their route into the first team will be harder but I genuinely believe it'll still be far easier than at an time in the "Roman Era".

 

[romufc]

We sold Luiz because Frank had faith in Tomori & Christensen. Pulisic got benched for long periods because he had faith in Mount. The captain got dropped at times for James and a world cup winning centre forward got dropped for Tammy.

As it is, we've only signed Ziyech and Werner (looks 99% done). We're losing Pedro, Willian and almost certainly Bats.

If we buy a lot of players then of course their route into the first team will be harder but I genuinely believe it'll still be far easier than at an time in the "Roman Era".

Yes, it has helped that Frank has worked with Tomori and Mount in his Derby days. Pulisic was never a starter to be benched because Frank started the season with Mount anyway.

With regards to Giroud, he was never a first team striker, even last season he played the EL only.

It is all well and good under Frank, I feel some of the youngsters deserve a greater chance to showcase themselves.

 

[duffer]

Yes, it has helped that Frank has worked with Tomori and Mount in his Derby days. Pulisic was never a starter to be benched because Frank started the season with Mount anyway.

With regards to Giroud, he was never a first team striker, even last season he played the EL only.

It is all well and good under Frank, I feel some of the youngsters deserve a greater chance to showcase themselves.

Apart from CHO, our whole squad is fit. I'm very interested to see if Billy Gilmour keeps his place! We'll see I guess.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Wow Werner will not be in Leipzig's squad for the rest of their Champions League campaign.

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[Dancfc]

Apart from CHO, our whole squad is fit. I'm very interested to see if Billy Gilmour keeps his place! We'll see I guess.

Would be outrageous if he doesn't. The midfield should be Gilmour, Kova plus one going forward.

 

[duffer]

Wow Werner will not be in Leipzig's squad for the rest of their Champions League campaign.

Make sense, would be a waste of a spot.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Chelsea should forget about Oblak. His release clause is insane. It's inconceivable that Chelsea would spend that kind of money on a keeper, especially after ending up getting badly burnt on the Kepa deal.

Well I certainly don't think they'll come anywhere close to meeting that figure - the rumours prior to lockdown were a swap where Chelsea send Kepa + ~€30m, which seems far more palatable. Whether Atleti agree is another matter entirely though.

 

[romufc]

Apart from CHO, our whole squad is fit. I'm very interested to see if Billy Gilmour keeps his place! We'll see I guess.

I would be very surprised if Gilmour keeps his place. I am sure Frank will introduce him into the first team effectively. Somewhat like what Ole has done with Greenwood.

Chelsea have enough MF players with Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic. Obviously, with the number of games coming up and 5 subs available, most youngsters will benefit from this.

 

[Pow]

I would be very surprised if Gilmour keeps his place. I am sure Frank will introduce him into the first team effectively. Somewhat like what Ole has done with Greenwood.

Chelsea have enough MF players with Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic. Obviously, with the number of games coming up and 5 subs available, most youngsters will benefit from this.

Our last 2 games prior to lockdown were liverpool in the cup and everton in the league and he was motm in both. On merit provided hes trained well and is ready i think he deserves the start

 

[ShareEndorphins]

If we buy a lot of players then of course their route into the first team will be harder but I genuinely believe it'll still be far easier than at an time in the "Roman Era".

Maybe Lampard is our Augustus and he will bring peace, justice and security to our New Roman Empire.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I would be very surprised if Gilmour keeps his place. I am sure Frank will introduce him into the first team effectively. Somewhat like what Ole has done with Greenwood.

Chelsea have enough MF players with Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic. Obviously, with the number of games coming up and 5 subs available, most youngsters will benefit from this.

Our last 2 games prior to lockdown were liverpool in the cup and everton in the league and he was motm in both. On merit provided hes trained well and is ready i think he deserves the start

Jorginho is also suspended so frankly I'd be surprised at this point if Gilmour doesn't start. Kante's fitness is also unclear given his late return to training.

 

[elmo]

Sure! I'll read it. Don't think Roman would want to spend big on goalkeepers though

Wasn't Kepa one of the most expensive signings of all time?

 

[elmo]

I could get on board with that if Conte had an overall decent record in the market but his record so far at Inter is just as tragic and he signed his fair share of flops at Juve aswell (Bendtner, past his prime Anelka prime examples). Then compare that to our record since he's left which Kepa aside has been pretty much spot on.

Furthermore we have the best academy in the world, if he was really that pissed off with the options avalible to him from plan B downwards in the market he could have given some of our boys a shot, Mount performed well on his loan that season and could have played a part while James/Tammy both looked ready to contribute even then, not to mention RLC was already in the first team.

Based on what? Buying and hoarding all the talents that get sent out on loan?

 

[romufc]

Jorginho is also suspended so frankly I'd be surprised at this point if Gilmour doesn't start. Kante's fitness is also unclear given his late return to training.

I get why fans want him to play, he will get the minutes in the next 9 games. I just dont think he will be a first choice starter. With the amount of options Chelsea have, I can see them being rotated and Gilmour probably starting 4/9 remaining games.

 

[Dancfc]

Based on what?

Results! 8 FA youth cup finals winning 7 and 4 Uefa youth League finals winning 2 in the decade just gone. And on top of that we have 9 academy players currently in our first team squad (it was 10 at one point) with a further 3 switching between first team and development.

Find me one other pro club close to those numbers then we'll talk.

 

[elmo]

Results! 8 FA youth cup finals winning 7 and 4 Uefa youth League finals winning 2 in the decade just gone. And on top of that we have 9 academy players currently in our first team squad (it was 10 at one point) with a further 3 switching between first team and development.

Find me one other pro club close to those numbers then we'll talk.

You're playing that many because of the transfer ban. Most of them aren't making the match team next year once you get your transfers done.

It's easy to get results at youth levels when your team just hoards talent from all over the world and most of them end up with 0 appearances for your first team.

Ajax and us probably have similar numbers and since Ajax managed to get to a CL finals recently with basically a homegrown team, their academy should definitely be ahead of yours.

Saying Chelsea has the best youth academy is a joke., apart from Terry do you all even have any academy players making 50 appearances for Chelsea ever since Roman took over?

 

[duffer]

It's easy to get results at youth levels when your team just hoards talent from all over the world and most of them end up with 0 appearances for your first team.

"Hoards talent from all over the world".

In our last youth cup win, we started with 10 English players and 1 Scot. Most of them had been at the club since they were 10 or under.

Our academy squad now has 19 Brits from 24.

I'm not saying our academy is the best but to say it hoards talent from across the world is just objectively wrong.

 

[romufc]

Results! 8 FA youth cup finals winning 7 and 4 Uefa youth League finals winning 2 in the decade just gone. And on top of that we have 9 academy players currently in our first team squad (it was 10 at one point) with a further 3 switching between first team and development.

Find me one other pro club close to those numbers then we'll talk.

So the best academy yet this is the first season that the academy players have been given a chance?

Come back and talk about the academy when they are in the first team and challenging for something or are in the team for a considerable amount of time rather than 3/4 of a season with a transfer ban.

Looking at next season, how many of them will be first choice starters?

2 /3 max.

 

[Dancfc]

You're playing that many because of the transfer ban. Most of them aren't making the match team next year once you get your transfers done.

As already educated on this thread by Duffer that's rubbish, we may have had a transfer ban but all youngsters promoted had a senior player let go to accommodate them and then they got in the team ahead of experienced players already here.

It's easy to get results at youth levels when your team just hoards talent from all over the world and most of them end up with 0 appearances for your first team.

Our last team that won the youth cup only 3 out of the 14 featured players in the final were "hoarded" from elsewhere, all the rest were local lads who's been at the club since they were very little kids.

So that is also absolute bullshit.

 

[Dancfc]

So the best academy yet this is the first season that the academy players have been given a chance?

Come back and talk about the academy when they are in the first team and challenging for something or are in the team for a considerable amount of time rather than 3/4 of a season with a transfer ban.

Looking at next season, how many of them will be first choice starters?

2 /3 max.

Ah yes, that famous transfer ban that forced us to get rid of a CL winner to make room for Tomori and decide against extending the loan of a La Liga and Serie A winner to make room for Abraham who was then played over a world cup winner.

 

[elmo]

"Hoards talent from all over the world".

In our last youth cup win, we started with 10 English players and 1 Scot. Most of them had been at the club since they were 10 or under.

Our academy squad now has 19 Brits from 24.

I'm not saying our academy is the best but to say it hoards talent from across the world is just objectively wrong.

You guys hoard talents all around the world, look at the players you lot have loaned out over the years. The only reason they're no longer in the academy is because they've past the age for it.

Your academy has been improving over the years, that much I agree, but the best academy in the world as claimed by dancfc is just bollocks.

 

[elmo]

As already educated on this thread by Duffer that's rubbish, we may have had a transfer ban but all youngsters promoted had a senior player let go to accommodate them and then they got in the team ahead of experienced players already here.


Our last team that won the youth cup only 3 out of the 14 featured players in the final were "hoarded" from elsewhere, all the rest were local lads who's been at the club since they were very little kids.

So that is also absolute bullshit.

And again, just name players that have made 50 first team appearances from your academy ever since Roman took over. Surely the best academy in the world should have some players actually making the first team instead of getting sold.

 

[duffer]

You guys hoard talents all around the world, look at the players you lot have loaned out over the years. The only reason they're no longer in the academy is because they've past the age for it.

Not the academy which is what we're talking about. It's always been a huge percentage of local kids with a smattering of overseas talent.

 

[romufc]

Ah yes, that famous transfer ban that forced us to get rid of a CL winner to make room for Tomori and decide against extending the loan of a La Liga and Serie A winner to make room for Abraham who was then played over a world cup winner.

Chelsea fans never fail to amaze. You got rid of David Luiz, he is a clown of a defender... You do realise that is what happens a player gets older? they are no longer favoured at clubs. Giroud was never a starter for Chelsea so don't give me crap about WC winner and that.

Higuain was never a Chelsea permanent player so obviously he will be replaced by a 22 year old.

The Chelsea academy has been winning trophies for years, why haven't any of those players played for Chelsea then? Why did it take a transfer ban to start some?

 

[Dancfc]

And again, just name players that have made 50 first team appearances from your academy ever since Roman took over. Surely the best academy in the world should have some players actually making the first team instead of getting sold.

So for ages it's "how many are in" now it's "how many are at 50" and no doubt when there's many on that number it's going to be "how many on 100" and so on.

But to answer your question Christensen, Loftus Cheek and Hudson Odoi are past 50, Mount will almost definitely be there come the end of the season with James, Abraham, Tomori and Gilmour highly likely to follow suit next season.

 

[elmo]

So for ages it's "how many are in" now it's "how many are at 50" and no doubt when there's many on that number it's going to be "how many on 100" and so on.

But to answer your question Christensen, Loftus Cheek and Hudson Odoi are past 50, Mount will almost definitely be there come the end of the season with James, Abraham, Tomori and Gilmour highly likely to follow suit next season.

Look, I'm not the one claiming my team has the best academy, you are the one making shit up and not providing any real info. Nobody gives a shit about youth team achievements and you're the one thinking your club has done some amazing shit with regards to the academy when in reality your numbers are pathetic.

Our academy has more players in the first team for starters and that's with no transfer ban.

Ajax academy is easily better than yours.

I'm done with this, you're delusional over your academy.

 

[Dancfc]

Look, I'm not the one claiming my team has the best academy, you are the one making shit up and not providing any real info. Nobody gives a shit about youth team achievements and you're the one thinking your club has done some amazing shit with regards to the academy when in reality your numbers are pathetic.

Our academy has more players in the first team for starters and that's with no transfer ban.

Ajax academy is easily better than yours.

But you have completely missed the point.

I based my comment mainly on the quality of players in the academy, whether they go on to make the first team and win the quadruple for 10 years in a row or never play a first team doesn't change the fact they're pissing all before them at that level, hence best.

And isn't one of your academy players Pogba? A player you had to break the transfer record to bring back because you refused to give him a chance even when you had no CM's available.

 

[Luke1995]

Wasn't Kepa one of the most expensive signings of all time?

I don't remember

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

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