Fair enoughVan Basten was a more talented player not just as a goal scorer due to the variety of goals he scored but also due to his ability to create goals. So even when he didn't score goals he would still still be among the most influential players on the pitch due to his ability on the ball/skill level.
Van Nisterooy was good in the air but he was no Van Basten in that regard and having had the pleasure of watching both players play during their careers it's a easy conclusion to come to. Below are quotes from ex legends (Carragher) of the game describing the phenemonal footballer Marco Van Basten and 3x Bal'on d'or winner.
“I used to play with Marco van Basten at Milan. I asked him how we should give the ball to him. He said, “Just pass it, and then start running to congratulate me”. He always thought he would score, and he was usually right.” Carlo Ancelotti.
“He’s the quickest 6ft 3in centre-forward I’ve ever seen! Just awesome. He was as quick as Ian Wright, as good in the air as Joe Jordan and he held the ball up better than Alan Smith. Van Basten could head, volley – he had power and strength.” Tony Adams.
“Injuries cut him down when he was in the best form of his career, spearheading Fabio Capello’s new and rejuvenated Milan side. Yet by then, Marco had already done enough to perhaps be regarded as the greatest number nine there’s ever been. People always talk about his strike against the Soviet Union in the 1988 European Championship Final, and yes, it was a great goal, but Marco scored even better goals, for both Ajax and AC Milan.” — Ronald Koeman
“Probably the best striker I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t just a goalscorer: he could hold the ball up superbly and had great skill, which he showed in his goals. He’ll always be remembered for hooking a stunning volley into the top corner in the Euro 88 final but at that time, at Milan, he was the main man in the best team in the world.” Jamie Carragher.
“Marco was the greatest centre forward that I’ve ever trained, he was a swan. Marco remains the greatest in his role. It was such a shame that he was forced to retire at 28. It was a mortal misfortune for him, for football, and for Milan.” Fabio Capello.
“He’s the greatest centre-forward I’ve ever played with or against. Quite simply, he had everything. He could dribble, was good in the air, good awareness, great touch. For such a big man – he’s 6ft 2in – to be so delicate was amazing. He played off the shoulder and his finishing was as good as any striker that has ever lived.” John Barnes.
“Oh yes. Right foot. Left foot. Heading, so strong, fast. He could score, he could pass the ball. He was the best. The way he played was timeless. He had to quit when he was 28. Surgery. Stupid surgery to the ankle. It was such a pity.” Paolo Maldini.
“He was elegance personified. He could score in millions of different ways and always with an unbelievable touch of class. He had no weak points – he was completely two-footed, and he was strong with his head, but he didn’t just score goals, he also created many, many assists. It is a shame that he stopped playing at such a young age. Had he continued into his thirties, I think he could have become a great ‘number 10’.” Marcel Desailly.
“It’s such a shame Van Basten’s career was curtailed by injury. What did he have that I didn’t? Touch, skill – and he scored goals as well. He was just such a wonderful, gifted, well-balanced footballer.” Gary Lineker.
Ruud Van Nistelrooy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
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Van Basten effectively retired at 28 but is considered by many to be one of the best strikers football has ever seen. He won the Balon D’Or three times and World Player Of The Year in 1992, scoring the amount of goals he did back then would be a better ratio than anyone in football today outside of Messi and Ronaldo.
For me Van Basten is only behind Messi, both Ronaldo’s and Pelé as a striker/goal scorer and his all round game was amazing. I don’t think you’d find anyone in football that would say either of RVP or RVN were better than Van Basten, I think most people would after that only Cruyff was a better Dutch footballer.
Would have been closer to 175+ if not for that wrecked 04-05 season with his injuries. It's really like 140 in 4 seasons taking out that season. Fantastic haul. What if he hadn't done his knee in 2000 and signed up that summer - would likely have fared better in Europe, perhaps.
I loved his partnership with Scholes in the 02/03 season where Scholes played as a 10/SS in front of Keane and one of Butt/Veron.
For all the talk about his finishing, I don't think I've seen a better CF at holding the ball up under pressure for us in my lifetime.
For all the talk about his finishing, I don't think I've seen a better CF at holding the ball up under pressure for us in my lifetime.
Just because Ruud isn't the best Dutch striker ever it doesn't mean he wasn't one of the all time great CFs. He's arguably our best CF and were are among the biggest clubs on the planet. In the PL era he's in the top 3-5 as well, which is, again one of the elite leagues in club football.
So, yeah, he's up there among the greats even if Van Basten was better. Just like Brazil have more than one great attacking forwards or number 10s.
So, yeah, he's up there among the greats even if Van Basten was better. Just like Brazil have more than one great attacking forwards or number 10s.
When did this happen?
Even his last season was curtailed due to the fight he had with Fergie. Could easily have scored 5-10 more goals that season and definitely would have won the Golden Boot
I do understand why some people might pick RvP over Ruud. As has been pointed out by others - Robin was a more complete player at his peak and certainly more technically gifted. In my mind Ruud was the quintessential target man - a breed that in today's modern game doesn't seem to have as much of a place anymore. His movement looked somewhat clunky. Like a raging bull who would just keep running at you into the box. He wasn't graceful, but damn was he effective. Too bad he had to sit out entire season due to that last minute injury before transferring from PSV.
Redcafe’s best United 11
Can you link the thread please?
Balon D'or was only for European players back then so the likes of Maradona were excluded.
Lewandowski has a pretty similar ratio to Messi and Ronaldo.
Gerd Mulller? all those goals at club and international level combined with winning the biggest trophies by age 30 (multiple CL, European Cups and Euro championships)
How does he (Van Basten) compare to Thierry Henry? Romario?
Can’t remember the exact title. Was definitely this season. Have a look in the search bar at the top of the page.
He was not as clunky as all that though. I can never find footage of it, but there is some move he did on the sideline in the buildup of a Dutch goal. May have been Euro 2008 or a match after that, but I can't remember the opponent. Anyway, it was very technical, executed perfectly in a very tight space. Not something you're used to seeing from him and it surprised me at the time, but so clearly he did have it in his locker. Dunno why it didn't come out more often though. Maybe it wasn't required in his game as much?
To me, Cruyff > Van Basten > Van Nistelrooij > Van Persie > Kluivert > Makaay I think is the list of Dutch forward players I’ve watched, lest I forget any. It was really a joy to behold Van Persie at his best, he was an artist. Ruud was a Machinic Beast though.
In the direct comparison thread between the two, the majority picked RVN. I'm pretty sure a poll right now sould see RVN win.
Probably Did on sentimental value as usual. There is no way hand on heart people can say RVN at his best was better than RVP who had everything he had plus more.
RVN is my favourite United striker hands down but I can’t lie like most on here. Next we will be saying he’s better than Henry.
You missed Robben, depending of how old you are some more. I think your ranking is spot on though and I would put Robben between Van Basten and RVN.
I probably watched 95% of his matches here but didn’t realise quite how many he scored
Oh look at you. Someone who tells it like it is.
RVP didn't have everything and more. He wasn't as good a finisher and goalscorer as RVN. Majority of fans will pick RVN because he was the better striker. And it's a weak argument to pin the consensus which you disagree with as sentiment.
Someone else who I think should be in there: Bergkamp. Including Robben depends on your definition of a striker. I mean, if we include Robben, should we also discuss Overmars? On the other hand, Robben was more of a goal scoring threat and was used more like a striker, especially in the 2014 Brasil WC.
Grande's list is hard one. People like Cruyff, Bergkamp, RVN, and Robben are nothing alike in their play styles and roles. I also don't know how I would compare RVP and RVN. They had similar roles (once RVP was played up top), but very different styles. I think RVP probably showed a higher level of ability, but given all his injuries and playing in different positions, I think I would say RVN has proven himself more as the better 'true' striker - and so I would class him above RVP in that sense.
In terms of delivery for Man Utd though, I don't see how RVP could ever top RVN. RVP had just one great season here. It gave great memories and the famous #20, but that's a separate thing. And while RVP in that season may have topped RVN's best season, RVP's subsequent seasons were clearly a level below, and so overall, I think you have to rank RVN higher at Man Utd.
Just call me the big man!!
On his finishing can’t say I agree. RVP had more variety in his finishes and was better with both feet.
How would you rate RVN compared to other premier strikers for finishing then? Top5?
At his best RVN scored 44 goals in a season. No player playing for an English club has scored more.
RVP had 2 seasons where he scored 30+ goals, RVN had 6. RVN had 9 or 10 seasons where he was scoring at 0.6 goals/appearance. RVP had 4. RVN was top scorer of CL 3 times, his goals/game ratio in CL is bettered only by Messi among players who have scored atleast 30 goals. His goals/game ratio at Utd is 2nd only to Viollet. I mean I doubt there is any stat that can point towards RVP being the better striker, and I loved RVP's time here
let’s be clear that stat is all competitions.. In an actually premier league Season RVP has scored more goals than him right. 44 goals in a season however is very impressive but he’s not the only one to do it. I mean stats wise Jamie Vardy is better than him then because he broke his record.
The stats are not my argument my argument is as plain and simple. At their best.. so peak RVN peak RVP. RVP was a better player. Now we can break it down to just ‘striker’ if we want...but when a player offers you Ruud’s striker ability and a similar amount of goals and then some (like Henry and Suarez as an example) I find it hard to argue he was the better player.
Now I’ll leave it there we can continue to talk about how great he is.... and he was bloody amazing.
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About Robben: of course you are right, even worse - I didn’t forget about him, I just remembered him in a turn of thought were I suddenly deluded myself to think I was only ranking United-players, a ten second dementia if you will.
I would probably rank him similarly as well.
Been a fan since 1983 and I’ve seen some great strikers here but I can’t argue with the posts of some of our older members who have watched law for example. For me RVN was the best finisher I’ve ever seen inside the box, great with his head. He can’t be considered the greatest because he didn’t really create many chances for himself from nothing but was outstanding in the buildups to attacks. Strong with a delicate finish but also not explosive outside the box. Ronaldo (Brazilian- created ridiculous chances for himself as well as finishing well inside the box as an example). Shevchenko at ac Milan was unbelievable. Van bastenwas a serious don. But honorary mention to ole Gunnar his finishing before his layoff was exemplary.
All fair points mate. He did say forwards. Overmars would definitely also be a forward. Bergkamp maybe slightly less. You could also call Gullit a forward who will be right up there of course. But as you say it's not black and white. Bergkamp I would rate about Robbens level, Overmars i'm not sure, it's a hard one. You could make a case for Hasselbaink above Makaay too for instance. Lots of great players for sure!
Not a chance. Ruud’s 44 goal year is tied for the best year ever. No way RvP can compete with that.
Van Basten effectively ended any chance of RVN being a greater legend than himself by making Ruud a reserve in WC 2010 for no good reason. Sabotage at it's best.
Goals in the league mate. RVN never made the 30 club. RVP did.
Why limit things to just the league. Europe and other clubs comps shouldn't be ignored.
If somebody gave me a choice of a 25 year old RVP or RVN, I'd go for Ruud every time.
150 in 219 for united. 64 in 97 for Madrid. 62 in 67 league games for PSV. 56 cl goals.
Its not even an argument. I can't believe some people are picking Robin.
150 in 219 for united. 64 in 97 for Madrid. 62 in 67 league games for PSV. 56 cl goals.
Its not even an argument. I can't believe some people are picking Robin.
Top5? He's the best finisher in Premier league history.
I thought when Beckham went he had less output because naturally he had less service, but he was beyond doubt one of the best strikers the team has ever had.
Gerd Muller was an Inzaghi type who scored lots of goals but his game was just about being in and around the box and I’d take Van Basten over Henry and Romario as well, Van Basten as an all round striker is so underrated it seems these day’s it’s crazy and having that injury on the back of his best season and as he was coming into his true peak was tragic.
I remember that only Europeans were allowed to win Balon D’Or back then but there was so many great players back then that being a three time winner was at that time an unreal achievement, I think we’ve been so spoiled with the level of Messi and Ronaldo with their goal scoring and the individual awards basically being their exclusive property that Van Basten’s don’t stand out anymore.
Big statement that. I don’t feel he’s top 5 let alone best.
Name 5 better finishers then.
Torres, Fowler, Bergkamp, Drogba, Rooney, Tevez also have shouts in that list too.
Purely on finishing RVN perhaps above some of them, but the complete package it has to be Henry
Feels like Ty, DT, and Troopz are wumming this thread.