Books The BOOK thread

Twigg

Not Twigginator
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
15,283
Location
Alfordsay, earnay Oldway Affordtray
Supports
100 extrapolation
Forget Tolstoy, go for The Brothers Karamazov next. My favorite book.
Alright, I'll bare it in mind. I was thinking about it earlier after reading a couple of quotes, this one in particular I thought was fantastic:

There was an old sinner in the eighteenth century who said that if there was no God, He would have to be invented. And man has actually invented God. And what would be marvelous, is not that God should really exist; the marvel is that such an idea, the idea of the necessity of God, could enter the head of such a savage, vicious beast as man. So holy is it, so touching, so wise and so great a credit is to man...But you must note this: if God exists and if He really did create the world, then, as we all know, He created it according to the geometry of Euclid and the human mind, with the conception of only three dimensions in space. Yet there have been and still are mathematicians and philosophers who doubt whether the whole universe, or to speak more widely the whole of being, was only created in Euclid's geometry. They even dare to dream that two parallel lines, which according to Euclid can never meet on earth, may meet somewhere in infinity... I have come to the conclusion that, since i can not understand even this, I can not expect to understand about God... I advise you never to think about it either, especially about God, whether He exists or not. All such questions are utterly inappropriate for a mind created with an idea of only three dimensions

So yeah, of the Russian lot I'll probably read that next. Not sure if directly after Crime and Punishment or if I'll read other things first, but I am digging the vibe at the moment.
 

Suv666

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
8,705
Currently reading Crime and Punishment and oh man this book is addicting. Can't remember the last time I was so gripped by a book, let alone an old classic. I thought it would be much harder than it is but I'm blitzing through it. The language is easier than I expected, maybe it's to do with it being a modern translation (I'm reading the Pevear and Volokhonsky version).

I read that Dostoyevsky is the master at portraying the paranoid mind, and I can see what they meant with that now.

I highly recommend this book.

I'm considering War and Peace next, or I might try some more Dostoyevsky. But I'm thining maybe I shouldn't burn through the Russian classics sequentially, so I might read something else altogether, not sure what though.
The Brothers Karamazov is one of the best books ever written. Its Dostoyevsky at his peak. Notes from Underground is amazing too.
I wasnt able to finish War and Peace, its hard to keep track of so many characters. Anna Karenina is a brilliant read though.
Dr Zhivago by Pasternak and The Master and the Margarita by Bulgakov were very enjoyable. I need to read more Russian literature.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
As above, but I'll add that:

The Devils is somehow frightening, as it examines characters who are often a) pitiless yet lacking true motivation for their acts, and b) pitiless yet driven by conviction; both are chilling. The complacency of the others is less exasperating than an indictment of their collective intelligence, care and nous - they are society people, yet they understand little of the social classes beneath theirs.

The Idiot is a sentimental work (which, granted, isn't to everyone's taste) but the contrast of the Prince and Rogozhin is haunting.

Because of Dostoyevsky's timeless excellence and concerns, the novels mentioned in this thread rarely seem dated regardless of the 'topical' 19th-century matters sometimes discussed in them.
 
Last edited:

MoskvaRed

Full Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
5,230
Location
Not Moskva
Best Russian reads (IMO):

Bulgakov - Master and Margarita
Turgenev - Fathers and Sons
Nabokov - Speak, Memory (written in English)
Chekhov - any short story
Tolstoy - Anna Karenina

Pushkin can’t be read in translation (likewise Gogol), while Lermontov is too much of its time. Dostoevsky I find just too Russian.

For a non-Russian view of Russia, I’d recommend “Under Western Eyes” by Joseph Conrad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Invictus

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Finished 'Guns, Germs, and Steel'. This book came to my attention after finishing 'Why the West Rules', and it tries to answer similar questions. However, unlike Why the West Rules which is focused only in Euroasia, this book on the other hand tries to explore all human civilizations (in fact, Euroasia is quite peripherical). In the end, I found it a decent enjoyable read, but nowhere as good as Why the West Rules. It gave me some information about the other civilizations (especially those of Oceania) that I knew nothing about.

Finished yesterday 'The Communist Manifesto' and I was really disappointed. Was expecting so much more than the ramblings of a half-lunatic.
 

Suv666

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
8,705
Finished East Of Eden. It was interesting to read about life in America in those times. A bit meandering at times and Steinbeck could have been more subtle about the Caine and Abel theme, still a very enjoyable read. I get why its such a beloved novel.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
Have you read Hilary Mantel’s A Place of Greater Safety, SteveJ ?
That's a coincidence, mate - I'm actually reading it now! :D
This is the second time I've read it and it's funny how, in my mind, some the characters have changed - despite his charm, I now view Camille as a kind of monster.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
Yeah, I definitely would. :) But it's not as polished in structure and style as the Cromwell books.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Just finished 'The Black Hole Wars' by Leonard Susskind. A very fascinating read written by one of the brightest minds of our era. In some parts of the book, I felt totally dumb and missed most of the explanations in the string theory chapters. It seems that anything that goes beyond relativity, is too hard to be understood from my brain (I was trying to keep up with some of the analogies in quantum mechanics, but not with a lot of luck, and on string theory it was just hard to follow). Still, I enjoyed it a lot and felt that I learned a lot of things from it.

I would appreciate any recommendation for similar books (please, only from top scientists, not science popularizers).
 

Dirty Schwein

Has a 'Best of Britney Spears' album
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
31,676
Location
Miracle World
Supports
Luton Town
My wife really enjoys the Arlo Finch books by John August... Can anyone recommend me anything else that's like these?
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
Jesus, it's hard to be a fan of the Smiths these days...and that's before even considering Morrissey's political opinions.

Anyway, I had the dubious fortune to re-read his Autobiography the other week (I briefly reviewed it earlier in the thread). I hadn't realised, at the time & until some further reading, how very one-sided it was, what with me being rather ignorant of the famous court case and so on. Now, I can only echo what some of the one-star Amazon reviews state: that the book is an overwritten, often tedious tale. There are fine moments - a rather poetic, haunting, and poignant trip to the Moors, for one - but, sadly, the literary mist of painfully try-hard descriptive writing soon obscures the best episodes again. There are good reasons why so few writers excel at both poetry and prose and unfortunately it appears that Moz was always best in three or four-minutes bursts of lyricism.

Morrissey's desperate desire to be betrayed by those he cares about, idolises, or is acquainted with is entirely clear. My guess is that he's actually fundamentally nowhere near as interesting as his lyrics & public image frequently suggested, so he actively lies in wait for any perceived personal letdown just to convince himself that he's more passionate and devoted (about all sorts of things and people) than others. This strange desire naturally and conveniently gives him a reason to write sniping and memorable lyrics, and to utter 'dramatic and outspoken' interview soundbites. In this, one can almost hear the mounting of his literary debt to famously waspish writers and diarists from Wilde to Kenneth Williams. One wonders if he's engaged in constructing a more interesting personality than he actually possesses at heart. Of course, it's no surprise to find him to be self-indulgent and self-centred - in context, a fan might feel 'disappointed' to find he isn't like that - but I found myself thinking that he's basically confirmed everything his critics dislike about him. Some of these negative aspects of his personality seem played for effect while others reveal him to have such an ingrained, almost determined, air of misery that absolutely nothing could change him for the better. An example of this is the account of his relationship with his late grandmother, who seemed so mired in hardship and stoicism as to be joyless all her life; while Morrissey undoubtedly plays up the 'tough Northern life' he and his family had, this account is so grim that it almost provokes laughter. Even when one sympathises with him in matters like these, or about his rather awful school-days experiences, or his heartfelt complaining of the crassness of the music industry, boredom or annoyance are never far away from the reader. It says everything that even when his criticisms are pretty much justified (for example, he moans about the Rough Trade label boss for page after page), Morrissey comes across as being exactly what his detractors claim he is: 'difficult to the point of nightmare'. It genuinely appears that the only people he has time for are the few friends who haven't yet disappointed him and the idolising fans who validate his 'greatness' and his opinion of himself by mobbing him at virtually every concert. I would've been interested to read his intelligent opinion as to the curious and telling homo-eroticism on display at so many gigs but, no, he doesn't really question these things. There's more insight on this even in fleeting, throwaway lyrics of the drab Dagenham Dave.

Oh, and to cap it all, he often seems borderline misogynistic; in my view, he utterly fails to defend himself against charges of racism despite his efforts, and in spite of mentioning one or two Black artists and musicians he admires; there's barely a trace of the humour that graces many Smiths songs; he's quite obviously desperate to prove to the reader - via boring accounts of sold-out solo gigs, record sales etc - that he 'doesn't need the Smiths'. I could go on etc.

A number of reviewers complained that, for all their studying of this over-long autobiography, they didn't really learn about the essential Morrissey. I disagree, and it's a real pity to conclude - considering how meek, frequently polite, and non-violent he is - that Morrissey stands revealed as very difficult to like. Not that that is so very important - it would've been nice, that's all, basically because eloquence in pop music is rare and so one assumes that a 'thinking' popstar is necessarily a more altruistic being than the norm.

Finally, on a personal note, I've practically zero interest in his solo work. For all his repeated boasts about solo sales and so on, Morrissey without Marr perhaps makes for a kind of late-Elvis legacy act - despite all the mobbing of the man at his concerts, I've even wondered whether it's the godawful trend of going to see a musician or singer ironically which motivates some of his famously 'devoted fans'. What an ongoing waste of time and talent...
 
Last edited:

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
:lol:

Blimey, that review was as long and boring as the book! Still, if you think this sentence ' the literary mist of painfully try-hard descriptive writing soon obscures the best episodes again' is pretentious, wait 'til you gerra loada Mozzer's Moody Musings! :D

TL;DR Idiot is shocked that famously miserable bloke is actually miserable.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
Everyone has their own taste, mate, so I'm not going to argue with you about that. :)
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
All the wit I may possess is secondhand, so it would effectively be a proxy war.
Damn, I sound like Morrissey...
 

Wednesday at Stoke

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
21,629
Location
Copenhagen
Supports
Time Travel
I read Post Office by Bukowski in two evenings, it reads like a craigslist rants and raves section.

I just got Ham on Rye, hope this one's a bit better.
 

LuisNaniencia

Sky Sports called my bluff
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
10,145
Location
271.5 miles from Old Trafford
I just read Shoe dog by Phil Knight about how Nike was founded and loved it, so I have just moved on to That will never work, about Netflix. However, its started quite slowly and the reviews say it's nowhere near as good as Shoe Dog.

So, can anyone recommend any good business memoir style books?
 

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
2,995
Jesus, it's hard to be a fan of the Smiths these days...and that's before even considering Morrissey's political opinions.

Anyway, I had the dubious fortune to re-read his Autobiography the other week (I briefly reviewed it earlier in the thread). I hadn't realised, at the time & until some further reading, how very one-sided it was, what with me being rather ignorant of the famous court case and so on. Now, I can only echo what some of the one-star Amazon reviews state: that the book is an overwritten, often tedious tale. There are fine moments - a rather poetic, haunting, and poignant trip to the Moors, for one - but, sadly, the literary mist of painfully try-hard descriptive writing soon obscures the best episodes again. There are good reasons why so few writers excel at both poetry and prose and unfortunately it appears that Moz was always best in three or four-minutes bursts of lyricism.

Morrissey's desperate desire to be betrayed by those he cares about, idolises, or is acquainted with is entirely clear. My guess is that he's actually fundamentally nowhere near as interesting as his lyrics & public image frequently suggested, so he actively lies in wait for any perceived personal letdown just to convince himself that he's more passionate and devoted (about all sorts of things and people) than others. This strange desire naturally and conveniently gives him a reason to write sniping and memorable lyrics, and to utter 'dramatic and outspoken' interview soundbites. In this, one can almost hear the mounting of his literary debt to famously waspish writers and diarists from Wilde to Kenneth Williams. One wonders if he's engaged in constructing a more interesting personality than he actually possesses at heart. Of course, it's no surprise to find him to be self-indulgent and self-centred - in context, a fan might feel 'disappointed' to find he isn't like that - but I found myself thinking that he's basically confirmed everything his critics dislike about him. Some of these negative aspects of his personality seem played for effect while others reveal him to have such an ingrained, almost determined, air of misery that absolutely nothing could change him for the better. An example of this is the account of his relationship with his late grandmother, who seemed so mired in hardship and stoicism as to be joyless all her life; while Morrissey undoubtedly plays up the 'tough Northern life' he and his family had, this account is so grim that it almost provokes laughter. Even when one sympathises with him in matters like these, or about his rather awful school-days experiences, or his heartfelt complaining of the crassness of the music industry, boredom or annoyance are never far away from the reader. It says everything that even when his criticisms are pretty much justified (for example, he moans about the Rough Trade label boss for page after page), Morrissey comes across as being exactly what his detractors claim he is: 'difficult to the point of nightmare'. It genuinely appears that the only people he has time for are the few friends who haven't yet disappointed him and the idolising fans who validate his 'greatness' and his opinion of himself by mobbing him at virtually every concert. I would've been interested to read his intelligent opinion as to the curious and telling homo-eroticism on display at so many gigs but, no, he doesn't really question these things. There's more insight on this even in fleeting, throwaway lyrics of the drab Dagenham Dave.

Oh, and to cap it all, he often seems borderline misogynistic; in my view, he utterly fails to defend himself against charges of racism despite his efforts, and in spite of mentioning one or two Black artists and musicians he admires; there's barely a trace of the humour that graces many Smiths songs; he's quite obviously desperate to prove to the reader - via boring accounts of sold-out solo gigs, record sales etc - that he 'doesn't need the Smiths'. I could go on etc.

A number of reviewers complained that, for all their studying of this over-long autobiography, they didn't really learn about the essential Morrissey. I disagree, and it's a real pity to conclude - considering how meek, frequently polite, and non-violent he is - that Morrissey stands revealed as very difficult to like. Not that that is so very important - it would've been nice, that's all, basically because eloquence in pop music is rare and so one assumes that a 'thinking' popstar is necessarily a more altruistic being than the norm.

Finally, on a personal note, I've practically zero interest in his solo work. For all his repeated boasts about solo sales and so on, Morrissey without Marr perhaps makes for a kind of late-Elvis legacy act - despite all the mobbing of the man at his concerts, I've even wondered whether it's the godawful trend of going to see a musician or singer ironically which motivates some of his famously 'devoted fans'. What an ongoing waste of time and talent...
Just to add, Morrisey once came into the pub I worked in in Kensington, all he ordered were some chips and his handler/PA tried to stop anyone going into the toilet while he was there. Never spoke to anyone and just came across as a twat.

Back to the thread:

Recently just finished A Happy Odyssey by Adrian Carton De Wiart, which is his memoirs, served in both World Wars and the Boer war and it was a fascinating read. The things that happen to him are outrageous.
 

Vidyoyo

The bad "V"
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
21,283
Location
Not into locations = will not dwell
I read the first part of the complete Cosmicomics and it affirms my suspicion that short stories are not my thing. Love Calvino's other stuff but it's hard finding motivation to go through these in order - better suited to magazines or whatever journals he published them in originally.

Also partway through Confessions of a Mask (Mishima) which is chocked full of homoeroticism (much like Morrissey).

Also in the midst of Mind Game (Susan Greenfield) which I've dubbed my Saturday/Sunday morning park book, and several books about design.

Reading more now than in ages, which is lovely.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
Just to add, Morrisey once came into the pub I worked in in Kensington, all he ordered were some chips and his handler/PA tried to stop anyone going into the toilet while he was there. Never spoke to anyone and just came across as a twat.
Not defending him; this is just a general observation: some aspects of being famous must be awful, because not only do you lose much of your private life, you also never know how the public is going to behave towards you.
 

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
2,995
Not defending him; this is just a general observation: some aspects of being famous must be awful, because not only do you lose much of your private life, you also never know how the public is going to behave towards you.
Oh yeah I appreciate that part, but I’ve never had a handler try to stop people from entering a toilet.

The New Zealand Rugby team poured pints and took pictures etc.

Anyway I’ll stop detailing this thread now.
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,994
Anyone know a site like metacritic but for books?
 

Jippy

Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes
Staff
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
57,228
Location
Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
I finally got round to reading a Dickens novel earlier this month (Great Expectations) and I'm now baffled by why I took so long, not including A Christmas Carol at school. He's an unbelievably good writer, which is to be expected, given his esteem I guess, but I was pleasantly surprised by how funny he is. He's also a remarkable reader of human emotions and brings to life such vivid characters. Some are arguably just caricatures, but plenty have depth and nuance.
The two different endings issue was a bit of a surprise.

What would anyone recommend as a next Dickens novel to read? Bleak House is frontrunner at the mo'.
 

celia

Full Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
497
Have you read it? Looked at a few 'Top 10 Dickens' lists online, for what they're worth, and it nearly always come in around number 10, so wondering if it should be a bit lower down the list tbh.
I saw it was the most read one on Goodreads and I remember I liked it though I only read four Dickens.
I went to read what I wrote about it : I found the book hard to read because a big part of the book seemed a long intro but I liked the last third of the book.
I should rescind my rec since I found the nice characters were without depth even if I praised a character.
 
Last edited:

oneniltothearsenal

Caf's Milton Friedman and Arse Aficionado
Scout
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
11,081
Supports
Brazil, Arsenal,LA Aztecs
I've been reading some Charles Willeford lately and its some great stuff.
  • The Shark-Infested Custard
  • The Burnt Orange Heresy
  • Cockfighter
Burnt Orange Heresy was apparently made into a movie set to come this summer with Mick Jagger. He is definitely a fun read.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
If anyone's interested in the lives of the Brontë family, this is an excellent drama: