Potential Matic Replacements

diarm

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,722
McTominay has the physical and technical ability to be that player Matic was today - i reckon he has the attitude and intelligence for it as well so it's up to Ole and the coaching team to guide him towards being that player.

Tonights performance was the perfect template and he should be studying it all day every day.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,380
McTominay has the physical and technical ability to be that player Matic was today - i reckon he has the attitude and intelligence for it as well so it's up to Ole and the coaching team to guide him towards being that player.

Tonights performance was the perfect template and he should be studying it all day every day.
He’s a solid internal candidate but work needs to be done on his aggression. It’s fine when chasing back as a box to box but that’s not useful in our DM set up.

He’s got the best in the business to learn from though in Carrick and Matic.
 

diarm

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,722
He’s a solid internal candidate but work needs to be done on his aggression. It’s fine when chasing back as a box to box but that’s not useful in our DM set up.

He’s got the best in the business to learn from though in Carrick and Matic.
Such a good point.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
7,082
So Koop has been a big part of AZ success in Eredivise. Defensively he isn’t rash he’s similar to Matic in terms of slowing down attacks but he’s got enough about him to step in a few times a game when needed. He’s actually occasionally played CB as a sort of Conor Coady deep playmaker before.

His passing range long and short is excellent and he’s good at circulating the ball and finding wide men like Stengs. He’s comfortable around the opponents box too enabled transitions from one flank to another securely. He’d be very affordable and I think would have the right character for Ole too. His composure is excellent he deals with pressure brilliantly and he’s even good at taking penalties.

Id take a gamble on him in a heartbeat.

I feel like I see a completely different player to some people when watching Rice and I think he’s been limited by West Ham not his ability. The ocassions I’ve seen him caught out he’s had zero support.

He would be the worse passer of the two but I think a lot of that is down to poor movement in front. He tries the right ball but is often let down.
Koopmeiners makes alot of sense. He can be an understudy to Matic for one year and spend time adapting to the PL. His creativity also means we wouldn't suffer creatively if one of Pogba or Bruno gets injured.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,380
Koopmeiners makes alot of sense. He can be an understudy to Matic for one year and spend time adapting to the PL. His creativity also means we wouldn't suffer creatively if one of Pogba or Bruno gets injured.
The thing is I can see him moving very soon to another league. I’d be surprised if a PL club doesn’t come in for him soon.

He’s one of those who has flown under the radar a bit because he isn’t all action throwing himself about but I much prefer that. He’s also captain if I remember correctly.

So he’s a left footed, CDM who is very comfortable deep at CB, composed, great range of passing, young and cheaper than a lot of other names. The big risk is the adaptation but I can’t see him struggling with the players we have.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
7,082
The thing is I can see him moving very soon to another league. I’d be surprised if a PL club doesn’t come in for him soon.

He’s one of those who has flown under the radar a bit because he isn’t all action throwing himself about but I much prefer that. He’s also captain if I remember correctly.

So he’s a left footed, CDM who is very comfortable deep at CB, composed, great range of passing, young and cheaper than a lot of other names. The big risk is the adaptation but I can’t see him struggling with the players we have.
I think the role will go to Mctominay tbh
 

izec

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
27,205
Location
Lucilinburhuc
The thing is I can see him moving very soon to another league. I’d be surprised if a PL club doesn’t come in for him soon.

He’s one of those who has flown under the radar a bit because he isn’t all action throwing himself about but I much prefer that. He’s also captain if I remember correctly.

So he’s a left footed, CDM who is very comfortable deep at CB, composed, great range of passing, young and cheaper than a lot of other names. The big risk is the adaptation but I can’t see him struggling with the players we have.
Has he played against us? Can't remember him, focus was mostly on their young attackers
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
14,094
Location
Juanderlust
McTominay could do it but his game will have to change quite significantly first. They have similar physical and technical assets but their styles of play are very different. McTominay is very proactive, to a fault sometimes. Matic is cold as ice and mostly reactive. Sits off, waits, takes his time, gives himself space.

I'm not sure McTominay is a direct replacement for any other player in our squad currently except Fred. Both scrappers. Both box-to-box by nature. Both more useful against better/equally matched sides than weaker sides.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,380
I think the role will go to Mctominay tbh
I’d be inclined to agree with you. McTominay has a lot in his locker as a midfielder but his best bet at being a starter in the next few years is at DM.

He’s got all the skills but it’s the discipline that is my concern.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,380
I don't think mctominay has the technique and composure of matic, it's a position we need to be looking at soon
I think that’s harsh, McTominay’s current role just doesn’t emphasise them.

If you watch him all the pieces are there it’s just learning the positioning etc in my eyes,
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
3,379
McTominay does not cut it for me in that role. He is 24 now? His passing along lines is very very inconsistent.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,587
My fear is that people at the club will see his recent performances and think his form is back so we don't need a replacement.
He needs someone to share the role with, he can't be expected to play every game at his age and we have no one in the squad who can play the role he does effectively. Fred and McT just aren't capable of playing that role. A defensive minded midfielder who reads the game well, and is calm on the ball and can distribute quickly and can carry it out of defence when needed.
If we leave him without any proper competition again, he will burn out quickly and his levels will drop and he will start getting abuse thrown at him again.
Yeah that is just the kind of thing that would suit the glazers down to the ground
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
3,379
I still say Saul is the guy. I think he’s a lot better than Partey.
No he's not, he is not as athletic neither is he better technically. I have watched a lot of ATM this season and Partey is better than him in that position. There is a reason why he is always favoured to play in that position.
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
13,221
No he's not, he is not as athletic neither is he better technically. I have watched a lot of ATM this season and Partey is better than him in that position. There is a reason why he is always favoured to play in that position.
From what I’ve heard, read and seen this season Saul has been their best player.

More tackles, more blocks, more interceptions, more headers won. More clearances, more dribbles. Higher rating on Who Scored.
 
Last edited:

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
7,082
He's not had the best season, but is still only 23 and, in terms of his attributes, exactly the profile of player we should be looking at. Arsenal and AC Milan have been linked with him in recent weeks.
His team is currently last on the table. Could go for very cheap. It's just strange we are hardly linked to any DM
 

TMDaines

Fun sponge.
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
13,966
I don’t know about names, but I’m currently vey happy with Matic. Our sixth midfielder to join the squad will ideally be someone young, with their best years ahead of them, who can do what Matic does in a double pivot, but could ideally do a better job as a sole holding midfielder. We probably don’t need the finished article and would be well served identifying who can have a year to bed in with Matic still available.
 

No-Internet

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
9
Everyone was praising matic rightly so,but play a quick attacking side like liverpool ,city even wolves and you will see his level his simply too slow...his not the answer to challenge for the league in the future
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
19,780
Care to explain why?

The pivot of McTominay and Pogba started the season for us, and all in all, the two looked good together.
He's better suited to the b2b role, i dont think he has the right skill set to play the DM role. His passing and positioning isn't good enough, we also need someone that can read the game and can carry the ball forward.

If we want to challange for the league we'll need a specialist for this role.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,885
Location
England
If i'm not mistaken Ole's coaching style is similar to how Klopp sets up his team but Ole doesn't have the necessary tools at his disposal to attempt to play in a similar fashion yet. Kieran McKenna is also a coach with a similar mindset and is probably the brains in our defensive/offensive transitions. So we need a Matic replacement that will suit our approach and Klopp's Liverpool is the bench mark/template.

So if we look at Liverpool's midfielders they have a high pass percentage but also have ability to eat up ground quickly and are very mobile. Matic fails on the mobility part and doesn't cover ground quickly either in comparison which is a hinderance against top quality teams. McTominay who some have suggested in the role could cover ground quickly but has thus far failed in the pass percentage stakes. We need to improve significantly on both fronts if we're to close the gap. Our current options are good enough to see the season out due to the quality of opposition not being of the highest calibre but we really could do with a upgrade in the role in question.

Ideally someone like Camavinga would be the one due to his enormous potential. But if not Camavinga i'd opt for Zakaria or Partey who both have the physicality, cover ground quickly and can also pass to a good level. Both players have the correct attributes to allow Bruno and Pogba to excell and also have the ability to disribute to a good level.

Personally I prefer Zakaria due to his size and versatility which greatly adds to his existing qualities. He also plays in a system at Gladbach under Marco Rose that requires a great deal from him in both the defensive/offensive phases of play. He's also been deployed as a sweeper by Rose and is well drilled tactically.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
7,082
Done a bit of research and I really like the look of Koopmeiners so far. He's the ideal Matic replacement and is a very good passer of the ball
 

Sea-Cow

Full Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
1,583

Sea-Cow

Full Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
1,583
If i'm not mistaken Ole's coaching style is similar to how Klopp sets up his team but Ole doesn't have the necessary tools at his disposal to attempt to play in a similar fashion yet. Kieran McKenna is also a coach with a similar mindset and is probably the brains in our defensive/offensive transitions. So we need a Matic replacement that will suit our approach and Klopp's Liverpool is the bench mark/template.

So if we look at Liverpool's midfielders they have a high pass percentage but also have ability to eat up ground quickly and are very mobile. Matic fails on the mobility part and doesn't cover ground quickly either in comparison which is a hinderance against top quality teams. McTominay who some have suggested in the role could cover ground quickly but has thus far failed in the pass percentage stakes. We need to improve significantly on both fronts if we're to close the gap. Our current options are good enough to see the season out due to the quality of opposition not being of the highest calibre but we really could do with a upgrade in the role in question.

Ideally someone like Camavinga would be the one due to his enormous potential. But if not Camavinga i'd opt for Zakaria or Partey who both have the physicality, cover ground quickly and can also pass to a good level. Both players have the correct attributes to allow Bruno and Pogba to excell and also have the ability to disribute to a good level.

Personally I prefer Zakaria due to his size and versatility which greatly adds to his existing qualities. He also plays in a system at Gladbach under Marco Rose that requires a great deal from him in both the defensive/offensive phases of play. He's also been deployed as a sweeper by Rose and is well drilled tactically.
I realize that I am crying over the milk here, but Fabinho was available when Monaco had a fire sale. As was B. Silva.

And hell, as was VDV at Southampton. Its not like we didn't have the money, we just dropped the ball.

*edit* I got off topic there. My point is that Fabinho would have been perfect and for whatever reason we didn't make a move. Oh well.
 

Fracture90

Full Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
10,360
Location
Serbia
Same, i really liked him at BVB. His career seemed to go downhill when Tuchel left.
Once upon time i had high hopes for him and i was even wishing for us to go after him. He's got the tools needed but i guess he isn't mentally up for it.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,380
He's better suited to the b2b role, i dont think he has the right skill set to play the DM role. His passing and positioning isn't good enough, we also need someone that can read the game and can carry the ball forward.

If we want to challange for the league we'll need a specialist for this role.
He’s a good long passer and can play line breakers. He certainly can carry the ball forward too. Positioning I think is the issue for him but it’s certainly something that he can learn from Carrick.
Koopmeiners is really a good shout- he plays a lot like how Matic does. This article is good read for those who have not really heard of him: https://footballbh.net/2020/03/21/teun-koopmeiners-2019-20-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics/
Join the club we have T-shirts.
If i'm not mistaken Ole's coaching style is similar to how Klopp sets up his team but Ole doesn't have the necessary tools at his disposal to attempt to play in a similar fashion yet. Kieran McKenna is also a coach with a similar mindset and is probably the brains in our defensive/offensive transitions. So we need a Matic replacement that will suit our approach and Klopp's Liverpool is the bench mark/template.

So if we look at Liverpool's midfielders they have a high pass percentage but also have ability to eat up ground quickly and are very mobile. Matic fails on the mobility part and doesn't cover ground quickly either in comparison which is a hinderance against top quality teams. McTominay who some have suggested in the role could cover ground quickly but has thus far failed in the pass percentage stakes. We need to improve significantly on both fronts if we're to close the gap. Our current options are good enough to see the season out due to the quality of opposition not being of the highest calibre but we really could do with a upgrade in the role in question.

Ideally someone like Camavinga would be the one due to his enormous potential. But if not Camavinga i'd opt for Zakaria or Partey who both have the physicality, cover ground quickly and can also pass to a good level. Both players have the correct attributes to allow Bruno and Pogba to excell and also have the ability to disribute to a good level.

Personally I prefer Zakaria due to his size and versatility which greatly adds to his existing qualities. He also plays in a system at Gladbach under Marco Rose that requires a great deal from him in both the defensive/offensive phases of play. He's also been deployed as a sweeper by Rose and is well drilled tactically.
Klopp’s Liverpool is not and should not be the template. We don’t have the players for that system.

Against top sides a double pivot has worked brilliantly we’ve got one of the best records against top 6 sides and it doesn’t need fixing.

McTominay is playing a more aggressive role and so his passing stats will be affected. Throughout the season he and Fred have had the creative burden put on them and creating requires risk.

Camavinga would not just walk into the side and would be one in a long line of the next big things that yes could be great but equally could struggle with the pace and quality of better opponents week in week out.

Zakaria is aggressive in his play and I think that against big clubs would be to our detriment. You want someone who will just delay attacks to get into shape. Not someone who’ll dive in and get too close. Equally his passing isn’t as good as other options so he’s a good player but I don’t think he’s the right one.

Partey could do the role, but in the same way McTominay could we’d be asking for an adaptation from an aggressive set up at Atletico to a more team based containment.

I think it depends what you value more, positioning and passing (which are more transferable skills) or physicality.

Done a bit of research and I really like the look of Koopmeiners so far. He's the ideal Matic replacement and is a very good passer of the ball
Told you. Ticks all the boxes of a DLP.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,885
Location
England
I realize that I am crying over the milk here, but Fabinho was available when Monaco had a fire sale. As was B. Silva.

And hell, as was VDV at Southampton. Its not like we didn't have the money, we just dropped the ball.

*edit* I got off topic there. My point is that Fabinho would have been perfect and for whatever reason we didn't make a move. Oh well.
Ole wasn't our manager at the time when the likes of Fabinho, Van Dyke moved to Liverpool. That's mostly on Mourinho and the naivety of our board in giving too much control to the manager.

Van Dyke definitely was a big miss with the benefit of hindsight but what we should do now is go after a young CB with similar characteristics rather than sign someone older who isn't close to the same quality. The same apllies for Fabinho and there's a number of very interesting alternatives who could be even better.