'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

Red Keane

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I have said this before, but United can’t be used as any bar for comparison. There has been severe mismanagement at United for years. They started off well behind, spent less (hidden City wages), had three managers with three different ideas and Woodward in charge of it all with no experience and no plan.

Guardiola had a club with already the best squad in the league, he spent more than anyone else (we don’t know the full extend of what payments were hidden), broke FFP, prepared especially for him YEARS before he eventually arrived and has not achieved that much more than those before him.
When Guardiola took over at Manchester City, that "best squad in the league" has all but reached its final legs (1) and needed a considerable rebuild, so most the money that was spent under Pep was to more or less replace that entire squad (2). Likewise it has to be said that for all the huge amounts of spending at City, the squad building & management was pretty poor during the Mancini/Pellegrini era to say the least (3). So if the Sheikh's where actually planning for Guardiola to arrive; other than getting KDB & Sterling, they did a pretty poor job of it.

(1) Why else is City finish behind Leicester, Arsenal & Tottenham the season before, as well as end up with the same number of points as United that season? All this despite spending money on both KDB & Sterling that season.

(2) By the 2018-2019 Season, only Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, D.Silva & Aguero had remained from the Mancini/Pellegrini era. The rest had all left...

(3) As shown by their abject failure to properly build up their squads after winning the League in both 2012 & 2014.

Forget United as a gauge. Guardiola has EVERY conceivable advantage over every other team in the league, so much so, that they broke financial restrictions to make sure he ha a bench that no one else in the league could get close to.
To be fair, its pretty fair game to judge 2015-2016 Manchester City vs 2015-2016 Manchester United considering that both of them finished on the same number of points that season, despite the fact the Glazers & Woodwood where in charge of the latter.

Thus while Guardiola's Manchester has managed to dominate the Premier League (1), Manchester United have struggled to reach Top 4 across the next 4 seasons. Which shows the difference between £600 Million net spend (+ Kompany, Fernandinho, D.Silva & Aguero) vs £440 Million net spend.

(1) So much that one could argue that Begiristain's failure to properly replace Kompany & Otameni with Koulibaly & Skriniar played the biggest part in Liverpool winning the League.

What he has done is fine, but when you consider what was done to give him so much of an advantage, it’s an average return. One that many other managers could have achieved given the same privileges as he has had.
It's more of a reflection of todays Transfer Market that in an age where £80 Million is considered the bare minimum for good players (with £100+ million transfer values being very commonplace at this level & above), it has to take £600 Million (1) to assemble a squad to merely dominate English Football for 2-3 seasons. So if one wants to Dominate the Champions League as well, they will have to spend even more than that (2). Likewise (3), can anyone really say that the likes of Mourinho (Post-Real Madrid), Mancini, Pellegrini would have done any better had they have given £600 Million to spend between 2016-2019?

(1) Manchester City's 2016-2019 Transfer Spending + the Earlier Signings of KDB & Sterling.

(2) Since the only way to secure both a Domestic League & a Champions League (within a single season) in this day & age is by having the ability to form 2 Strong XI's out of your squad; Real Madrid had this the only time they won a European Double since the 1950s (back in 2017-2018), neither Manchester City under Pep nor Liverpool under Kloop have ever been in that position, hence their collective failure to win a European Double to date.

(3) I would argue that while Pep's European Record can be questioned (although as I stated earlier, its mainly due to the fact you cannot dominate both Domestically & in Europe without spending even more than £600 Million), the spending has very much been reflected in the amount of Domestic Success they have had under Pep.

Not a patch on Ferguson, and Klopp’s achievements in England belittle his own now too.
No manager in the history of the English Club game can ever be a patch on Fergie. But while it's fair to put Klopp on the same level as Pep; he has definately not surpassed him yet.
 

Red Keane

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He inherited the best squad in the league. Most of which are still his best players. Aguero, KDB, Silva, Sterling. He then went on to break all Premiership spending records. In addition to inheriting the best squad which had only underachieved the season before once it was announced mid session Pep would be joining.
Only Kompany, Fernandinho, D.Silva & Aguero where good enough (in 2016) to have a place in a Premier League Challenging Squad out of that 2015-2016 Manchester City Squad. The rest where either on their last legs, where never good enough in the first place or where nowhere near as good as they are now (KDB & Sterling). That more than anything was the main reason why City finished behind Leicester, Arsenal & Tottenham, as well as end up on the same level of points as a Manchester United side that was was suffering from the after-effects of being vandalised by the Glazers, Woodwood, Moyes & LVG.
 

Maluco

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When Guardiola took over at Manchester City, that "best squad in the league" has all but reached its final legs (1) and needed a considerable rebuild, so most the money that was spent under Pep was to more or less replace that entire squad (2). Likewise it has to be said that for all the huge amounts of spending at City, the squad building & management was pretty poor during the Mancini/Pellegrini era to say the least (3). So if the Sheikh's where actually planning for Guardiola to arrive; other than getting KDB & Sterling, they did a pretty poor job of it.

(1) Why else is City finish behind Leicester, Arsenal & Tottenham the season before, as well as end up with the same number of points as United that season? All this despite spending money on both KDB & Sterling that season.

(2) By the 2018-2019 Season, only Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, D.Silva & Aguero had remained from the Mancini/Pellegrini era. The rest had all left...

(3) As shown by their abject failure to properly build up their squads after winning the League in both 2012 & 2014.



To be fair, its pretty fair game to judge 2015-2016 Manchester City vs 2015-2016 Manchester United considering that both of them finished on the same number of points that season, despite the fact the Glazers & Woodwood where in charge of the latter.

Thus while Guardiola's Manchester has managed to dominate the Premier League (1), Manchester United have struggled to reach Top 4 across the next 4 seasons. Which shows the difference between £600 Million net spend (+ Kompany, Fernandinho, D.Silva & Aguero) vs £440 Million net spend.

(1) So much that one could argue that Begiristain's failure to properly replace Kompany & Otameni with Koulibaly & Skriniar played the biggest part in Liverpool winning the League.



It's more of a reflection of todays Transfer Market that in an age where £80 Million is considered the bare minimum for good players (with £100+ million transfer values being very commonplace at this level & above), it has to take £600 Million (1) to assemble a squad to merely dominate English Football for 2-3 seasons. So if one wants to Dominate the Champions League as well, they will have to spend even more than that (2). Likewise (3), can anyone really say that the likes of Mourinho (Post-Real Madrid), Mancini, Pellegrini would have done any better had they have given £600 Million to spend between 2016-2019?

(1) Manchester City's 2016-2019 Transfer Spending + the Earlier Signings of KDB & Sterling.

(2) Since the only way to secure both a Domestic League & a Champions League (within a single season) in this day & age is by having the ability to form 2 Strong XI's out of your squad; Real Madrid had this the only time they won a European Double since the 1950s (back in 2017-2018), neither Manchester City under Pep nor Liverpool under Kloop have ever been in that position, hence their collective failure to win a European Double to date.

(3) I would argue that while Pep's European Record can be questioned (although as I stated earlier, its mainly due to the fact you cannot dominate both Domestically & in Europe without spending even more than £600 Million), the spending has very much been reflected in the amount of Domestic Success they have had under Pep.



No manager in the history of the English Club game can ever be a patch on Fergie. But while it's fair to put Klopp on the same level as Pep; he has definately not surpassed him yet.
While that is a really detailed breakdown, there is too much based on opinion, most of which I don’t agree with at all (state of squad, preparation, players available to him etc...)

I think through his whole time here, he has had the best squad in the league and has spent the most money, in a project focused on him. He has had all the advantages, that’s my opinion.

He has so many top players at his disposal, and complaining about the lack of a Skiniar at CB to explain away his failings, just tells you how inflexible he is. He needs perfect conditions and world class players in every position to succeed, and a whole lot more on the bench just in case.

That’s why Ferguson is in a different league and always will be. He was winning big matches and titles with Park, Neville, Anderson and Cleverly in midfield. He is in a different class.

He is a great coach, but not a genius, nor does he get into the most elite of groups because of what he requires to get results.

As for Klopp, the team he has built at Liverpool and what he has managed to win dwarfs Guardiolas at City. He hasn’t had half the money and started with a poor squad filled with average players. He has added what was needed, built a winning mentality (all with a pretty weak bench) and he won the CL while getting an insane amount of points domestically.

I hate Liverpool, but Klopp’s job there has been infinitely more impressive than Guardiola’s at City, given their respective starting points and resources.
 
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acnumber9

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Mancini 2009-2013 - 2/3 trophies, one title
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Pellegrini 2013-2016 - 3 trophies, one title
  • Premier league 2013-2014
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Guardiola - 2016 - present 6/8 trophies, two titles.
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Hes been at least twice as successful as their previous managers, and is clearly their greatest manager ever. To suggest that all hes done is win two titles in four years is utterly, utterly ridiculous.
He wasn’t brought to Man City at that cost to win league cups. I didn’t say he wasn’t better than those that came before him. He is. Has he been as successful as was expected? Not unless he wins the Champions League for me. He’s won 3 of the cups that really matter from the ten opportunities they’ve had to date. With the squad they have two titles is not a great achievement. They have two teams that could get top four.
 
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Red Keane

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While that is a really detailed breakdown, there is too much based on opinion, most of which I don’t agree with at all (state of squad, preparation, players available to him etc...)
My opinions are based on the facts that are in front of me, its as simple as that.

I think through his whole time here, he has had the best squad in the league and has spent the most money, in a project focused on him. He has had all the advantages, that’s my opinion.
He didn't have the best squad when he started back in 2016, in fact it wasn't until the 2017-2018 Season that Man City could actually boast the title of "Best Squad in the Premier League". Regardless my point was that while having "Best Squad in the Premier League" might be enough to dominate domestically (1), its does not mean that said squad necessarily dominates Europe as well (2) as Celtic, Juventus, Bayern Munich, PSG & even Barcelona will tell you

(1) Which it did, hence why it took Begiristain's own foolishness to not replace Kompany & Otamendi that finally enabled City to lose their grip on the PL Title.

(2) As I have said previously you need to have a squad that has enough quality players to create 2 seperate Strong XI's; Real Madrid had exactly that in 2017-2018 (when they won a European Double) while City have never been in that siutation under Pep.

He has so many top players at his disposal
He had enough to dominate the English Club Game; but he didn't have enough to do the same in Europe as well, this was especially the case in the Defensive Department.

and complaining about the lack of a Skiniar at CB to explain away his failings
If you don't have a good Defence, you can forget winning Premier League Titles, let alone Champions League Titles. A fact both Fergie & Mourinho accepted early on, a fact Klopp had to learn the hard way and a fact Arsenal have clearly forgotten since the Invincibles era (hence why they compete with the likes of Crystal Palace these days). So the fact Manchester City didn't have even have a good Starting Back 4 (alongside eveyone else in the Top 6) this season and Liverpool did indeed a good Starting Back 4 goes a long way to explain why they have been so dominant in the Premier League this season.

just tells you how inflexible he is. He needs perfect conditions and world class players in every position to succeed, and a whole lot more on the bench just in case.
If you want to win the Premier League (or another Top 5 Domestic League) & the Champions League in a single season, you need to have 2 World Class players in every position (or something close to it). Hence why Real Madrid managed to win a European Double when their squad was in such a position.

That’s why Ferguson is in a different league and always will be. He was winning big matches and titles with Park, Neville, Anderson and Cleverly in midfield. He is in a different class.
Fergie is indeed head & shouders above any manager we have today (although Park & Anderson where far better players than the likes of Cleverly, even if the latter never reached his potential), but even he got humliated twice by a Messi led Barcelona side in its prime (1). So there is only so far you go with a side that is not full of world-class players.

(1) I still haven't forgiven the Glazers for failing to give Ferguson the funds needed to build upon the Ronaldo-Rooney era side; had they done so then United would have dominated the Champions League between 2007-2013 instead of the likes of Real Madrid & Barcelona. As well as put us in a much better place once Fergie retired.

He is a great coach, but not a genius, nor does he get into the most elite of groups because of what he requires to get results.
Despite the fact a large number of players have had their best performances under Guardiola (including several that Pep didn't sign himself, but where at the club before he arrived)?

As for Klopp, the team he has built at Liverpool and what he has managed to win dwarfs Guardiolas at City. He hasn’t had half the money and started with a poor squad filled with average players. He has added what was needed, built a winning mentality (all with a pretty weak bench) and he won the CL while getting an insane amount of points domestically.

I hate Liverpool, but Klopp’s job there has been infinitely more impressive than Guardiola’s at City, given their respective starting points and resources.
While Klopp should take a lot of credit for winning the Champions League & Premier League with Liverpool (especially considering the squad he has had); it cannot be forgotten that in the case of the 2018 CL & 2019 CL, they where massively helped by the fact City didn't have a Back 4 that was good enough to win the PL & CL (in one season) on either of those occasions, hence why Liverpool where able to knock them out in 2018 (1) & Tottenham where able to knock them out in 2019 (before gettng defeated by Liverpool in the Final) (2). Had Manchester City instead had Back 4 that was good enough to win the PL & CL (in one season) however; Liverpool would have been knocked out of the QF's in 2018 & lost the final in 2019, in both cases to Man City.

Likewise the pretty poor squad depth that Klopp's Liverpool's has been lumbered with has cost them when it comes to Trophies; hence why they lost the Premier League last season because Lovern (as expected) failed to clear a shot from Aguero, why they have resorted to playing the kids in the Cups (hence why they got outplayed by a Scottish Teenager when they got knocked out of the FA Cup by Chelsea, almost got knocked out of the League Cup by a Arsenal side featuring Mustafi & finanally got knocked out of the League Cup by an Aston Villa B side) and why they got knocked out of the Champions League this season by one of the worst Atletico Madrid sides in recent years, with the goals being scored by a Real Madrid reject and a guy with no self-confidence.

So while Klopp has done well with the Liverpool side that he has currently got & has indeed taken them up several levels (at our expense); it remains a fact that had Manchester City built (under Guardiola) a side that was designed to achieve both Domestic & European Dominance (3), Klopp would have failed to win anything up to this point. The fact that Manchester City have failed to do this has instead enabled Klopp to capitalise on this fact and thus has been sucessful in building a side that can not only beat Manchester City on its day, but win trophies due to City's own transfer-related mistakes.

In other words Guardiola's Manchester City does have transfer spending & squad advantages that are big enough to Dominate the Premier League unchallenged, but are not quite big enough to also Dominate Europe nor guarantee said Premier League dominance would survive any serious challenge.

(1) Would Liverpool have still been able to overcome City had the latter had a Back 4 of Alaba - Laporte - VVD - Walker?

(2) Would Tottenham (and in turn Liverpool) have still been able to overcome City had the latter had a Back 4 of Alaba - Koulibaly - VVD - Walker?

(3) Rather than just the former. In other words ditching Bravo in favour of Allison, ditching Delph in favour of Alaba, ditching Otamendi in favour of VVD, replacing Kompany with Koulibaly, adding Kimmich in 2017, replacing Yaya Toure in 2018 rather than 2019 (with Rodri), adding another CM to compete with KDB, D.Silva & B.Silva in 2018 and adding both Neymar & Mbappe in 2017 (alongside the signings they actually did between 2016-2019). Which is what they needed to do to extended their Domestic Dominance to Europe.

In other words, 5 more signings in 2017 (Alaba, VVD, Kimmich, Neymar & Mbappe), 3 more signings in 2018 (Allison, Addtional DM & Addtional CM) & only 1 signing needed in 2019 (Replacing Kompany with Koulibaly).
 

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While that is a really detailed breakdown, there is too much based on opinion, most of which I don’t agree with at all (state of squad, preparation, players available to him etc...)

I think through his whole time here, he has had the best squad in the league and has spent the most money, in a project focused on him. He has had all the advantages, that’s my opinion.

He has so many top players at his disposal, and complaining about the lack of a Skiniar at CB to explain away his failings, just tells you how inflexible he is. He needs perfect conditions and world class players in every position to succeed, and a whole lot more on the bench just in case.

That’s why Ferguson is in a different league and always will be. He was winning big matches and titles with Park, Neville, Anderson and Cleverly in midfield. He is in a different class.

He is a great coach, but not a genius, nor does he get into the most elite of groups because of what he requires to get results.

As for Klopp, the team he has built at Liverpool and what he has managed to win dwarfs Guardiolas at City. He hasn’t had half the money and started with a poor squad filled with average players. He has added what was needed, built a winning mentality (all with a pretty weak bench) and he won the CL while getting an insane amount of points domestically.

I hate Liverpool, but Klopp’s job there has been infinitely more impressive than Guardiola’s at City, given their respective starting points and resources.
Klopp didn't win anything with Liverpool until he bought the most expensive defender, Goalkeeper and one of the most expensive DM. So let's not act like he got to where he is with Liverpool without great and expensive talents in his team. He also had another very important factor on his side that wouldn't be given to Pep anywhere, which is time to build with no pressure to win.

He wasn’t brought to Man City at that cost to win league cups. I didn’t say he wasn’t better than those that came before him. He is. Has he been as successful as was expected? Not unless he wins the Champions League for me. He’s won 3 of the cups that really matter from the ten opportunities they’ve had to date. With the squad they have two titles is not a great achievement. They have two teams that could get top four.
Do you have any proof that it's written in his contract that he was brought in to win the CL ? I mean offcourse they'll like to win it and he himself will like to win it again on a personal level, but to act like winning every other title is easy is ridiculous.
Another thing with Pep that is being ignored in post like yours (maybe it isn't an important factor to you, but it is to clubs and a lot of football fans) is that the reason why he's considered a great coach is not just because his teams win, but it's also because of the kind of football he gets his teams to play and win with.
 

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Imagine actually trying to suggest Guardiola had this perfect squad when City finished 3 points ahead of Southampton and 4 Wet Ham and were only fourth :lol::lol:

What is even more comical is people can only name 6 players good enough. 1 was potential in Sterling. One injury prone in Kompany.
 

cyberman

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Imagine actually trying to suggest Guardiola had this perfect squad when City finished 3 points ahead of Southampton and 4 Wet Ham and were only fourth :lol::lol:

What is even more comical is people can only name 6 players good enough. 1 was potential in Sterling. One injury prone in Kompany.
They werent as good as theyvare now but they had the best squad in the league, be it a poor league.
Leicester won the league before his first year here ffs
 

Nou_Camp99

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Hes a fantastic manager there's no doubt. But how many trophies would he have won had he joined Arsenal or Spurs though under same financial conditions they have been under? He'd maybe have won a league or fa cup at best and maybe nothing at all.

Money is king.
 

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That’s why Ferguson is in a different league and always will be. He was winning big matches and titles with Park, Neville, Anderson and Cleverly in midfield. He is in a different class.
Guardiola won a CL final with Toure at CB, Puyol RB, Sylvinho left back and two rookies that year in Pique and Busquets.

Neville played midfield once in his career. Park was a decent player. Cleverley won one title and only started 18 games. Care to name all these titles and big matches?
 

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They werent as good as theyvare now but they had the best squad in the league, be it a poor league.
Leicester won the league before his first year here ffs
Best squad is very debatable. What has played out since makes peoples views distorted.

Shaw was highly regarded on here before his leg break. DDG a top goalkeeper. Sure I could find many posts claiming Martial > Sterling. Depay was potential and now producing.

Herrera and Valencia were rated on here.

Mata was excellent at Chelsea and numbers were superior to Silvas.

Then you had Hernandez, Rooney, Carrick etc.

Theres 10 rated players. Compare those 10 to Citys best 10. Not much difference. People are thinking of what KDB and Sterling have became not the players they were in 2016.
 

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Best squad is very debatable. What has played out since makes peoples views distorted.

Shaw was highly regarded on here before his leg break. DDG a top goalkeeper. Sure I could find many posts claiming Martial > Sterling. Depay was potential and now producing.

Herrera and Valencia were rated on here.

Mata was excellent at Chelsea and numbers were superior to Silvas.

Then you had Hernandez, Rooney, Carrick etc.

Theres 10 rated players. Compare those 10 to Citys best 10. Not much difference. People are thinking of what KDB and Sterling have became not the players they were in 2016.
I wouldnt judge real world evaluations of Utd players from posts on here. It gets really tribal when wr have our favourites.
City were favourites every year to win the league for good reason. They were on for the quadruple at Christmas before the Pep announcement knocked them off course.
 

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Guardiola won a CL final with Toure at CB, Puyol RB, Sylvinho left back and two rookies that year in Pique and Busquets.

Neville played midfield once in his career. Park was a decent player. Cleverley won one title and only started 18 games. Care to name all these titles and big matches?
Phil Neville
 

Mark_Barca

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City were favourites every year to win the league for good reason. They were on for the quadruple at Christmas before the Pep announcement knocked them off course.
Were also faves for the CL last 2 or so years, ridiculous tbh.

So Pep being announced is the reason why Pellegrini played kids at Chelsea in the FA cup?

They still won the league cup, funny how announcement didnt stop that.

City dropped points against Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Leicester earlier in the season. How people can claim Pep being announced is the sole reason for points dropped again from those 5 is laughable.

They couldnt beat Villa long before Pep was announcement and they had took like 4 points from 11 games!

Phil Neville
Oh yeah, my bad. :lol:
 

JDoe

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Best squad is very debatable. What has played out since makes peoples views distorted.

Shaw was highly regarded on here before his leg break. DDG a top goalkeeper. Sure I could find many posts claiming Martial > Sterling. Depay was potential and now producing.

Herrera and Valencia were rated on here.

Mata was excellent at Chelsea and numbers were superior to Silvas.

Then you had Hernandez, Rooney, Carrick etc.

Theres 10 rated players. Compare those 10 to Citys best 10. Not much difference. People are thinking of what KDB and Sterling have became not the players they were in 2016.
Obviously people are overreacting when they call him a failure, he did okay so far at City, but you surely aren't comparing United's squad to City's back then, right?
I mean they had Agüero, D. Silva, Kompany who were regarded by pretty much every one as top 5 in the world in their respective positions and undoubtedly world-class pre Pep. He also inherited KdB, whilst not having made a name for a big team yet, was the best player in the BL ahead of still prime Robben/Lewa and went for a record fee back then. Him and Fernandinho were already established talents with world-class potential reaching their respective peaks and would've started for any single team in the PL before Guardiola at that point in their career.

The only player in Utds squad that is in the same bracket at those 5 at that time was DDG. Sterling and Martial were rated similarly and the former developed really well under Pep, while Martial stagnated, that's a player Pep really improved. Herrera, Valencia, Shaw were only "rated" by Utd fans at that time and weren't any better than the likes of Otamendi/Clichy whilst Rooney, Carrick, Mata were more finished than an aging Touré or Zabaleta.

It's like comparing Barca's squad to United's because they "only" had 5 world class players or so, whilst the rest were comparable...
 

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Basically any Pep-related discussion here reached that point when everyone already has one opinion and won't move no matter what happens in the future.
 

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Herrera, Valencia, Shaw were only "rated" by Utd fans at that time and weren't any better than the likes of Otamendi/Clichy whilst Rooney, Carrick, Mata were more finished than an aging Touré or Zabaleta.

It's like comparing Barca's squad to United's because they "only" had 5 world class players or so, whilst the rest were comparable...
Not better than Clichy :lol:

Mata/Rooney more finished than Toure and Zabaleta :lol:

Herrera was wanted by Barca and was highly rated in Spain.

Fernandinho is a good player but not world class.

So much wrong in that post.
 

Dec9003

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He wasn’t brought to Man City at that cost to win league cups. I didn’t say he wasn’t better than those that came before him. He is. Has he been as successful as was expected? Not unless he wins the Champions League for me. He’s won 3 of the cups that really matter from the ten opportunities they’ve had to date. With the squad they have two titles is not a great achievement. They have two teams that could get top four.
You implied he was similar to those before him by saying he’s won two titles in four years and the other two won two in four and a bit; which isn’t even true anyway.
To say the league cup doesn’t matter is weird, all the cups are important to win, and having a season with city where they win the league and both cups in one season is fantastic to them.
People saying he’s not a success unless he wins the champions league should remember we only won two of them with Fergie, it’s not an easy competition to win.
 

cyberman

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Were also faves for the CL last 2 or so years, ridiculous tbh.

So Pep being announced is the reason why Pellegrini played kids at Chelsea in the FA cup?

They still won the league cup, funny how announcement didnt stop that.

City dropped points against Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Leicester earlier in the season. How people can claim Pep being announced is the sole reason for points dropped again from those 5 is laughable.

They couldnt beat Villa long before Pep was announcement and they had took like 4 points from 11 games!

Oh yeah, my bad. :lol:
City were crusing it at Christmas and simply collapsed when it was clear Pellegrini was oit the door.
Doesnt matter what kids were played were.
 
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The only player in Utds squad that is in the same bracket at those 5 at that time was DDG. Sterling and Martial were rated similarly and the former developed really well under Pep, while Martial stagnated, that's a player Pep really improved. Herrera, Valencia, Shaw were only "rated" by Utd fans at that time and weren't any better than the likes of Otamendi/Clichy.
Valencia and Herrera would never get near a City first team in the past 10 years. Still to this day I don’t understand why anyone ever rated Valencia as a full back - blunted our attack for half a decade. People criticise AWB for his forward play, but he’s already better than Turn Back Tony. Herrera, we havent missed - I liked his energy and his passion, but The fact he played just highlighted how poor our midfield had been for so long.
 

Withnail

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You implied he was similar to those before him by saying he’s won two titles in four years and the other two won two in four and a bit; which isn’t even true anyway.
To say the league cup doesn’t matter is weird, all the cups are important to win, and having a season with city where they win the league and both cups in one season is fantastic to them.
People saying he’s not a success unless he wins the champions league should remember we only won two of them with Fergie, it’s not an easy competition to win.
No one really cares about the league cup and community shields definitely don't count.

Considering the resources at his disposal, never looking anywhere near winning a champions league since he walked away from arguably the best club team anyone of us have ever seen has to be considered an underachievement.
 

Dec9003

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I feel like saying the league cup doesn’t matter is something the scousers used to say when they weren’t winning anything.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Only Kompany, Fernandinho, D.Silva & Aguero where good enough (in 2016) to have a place in a Premier League Challenging Squad out of that 2015-2016 Manchester City Squad. The rest where either on their last legs, where never good enough in the first place or where nowhere near as good as they are now (KDB & Sterling). That more than anything was the main reason why City finished behind Leicester, Arsenal & Tottenham, as well as end up on the same level of points as a Manchester United side that was was suffering from the after-effects of being vandalised by the Glazers, Woodwood, Moyes & LVG.
Take your City glasses off mate.

Peps best players now were there when he took over -KDB,Aguero,Sterling. Also Silva only began to decline last season. He then broke premiership spending records on top of that.

Yes, Pep has won trophies, but if you can't accept the massive advantage he has had you need to take your blinkers off.

And this is before getting into the financial irregularities of Manchester City and How much they are really spending.
 

Fluctuation0161

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I hate Liverpool, but Klopp’s job there has been infinitely more impressive than Guardiola’s at City, given their respective starting points and resources.
Totally agree. Klopp has won it playing more entertaining football than Pep and without the massive advantages. Pep won titles at City but it is the equivalent of cheating on a computer game.

It pains me to say that about Liverpool as a United fan. But I respect Klopp at Liverpools achievements so much more than Pep and City. I think most football fans do.
 

acnumber9

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Klopp didn't win anything with Liverpool until he bought the most expensive defender, Goalkeeper and one of the most expensive DM. So let's not act like he got to where he is with Liverpool without great and expensive talents in his team. He also had another very important factor on his side that wouldn't be given to Pep anywhere, which is time to build with no pressure to win.


Do you have any proof that it's written in his contract that he was brought in to win the CL ? I mean offcourse they'll like to win it and he himself will like to win it again on a personal level, but to act like winning every other title is easy is ridiculous.
Another thing with Pep that is being ignored in post like yours (maybe it isn't an important factor to you, but it is to clubs and a lot of football fans) is that the reason why he's considered a great coach is not just because his teams win, but it's also because of the kind of football he gets his teams to play and win with.
Of course it isn’t written into his contract but use some common sense. No clubs spend £700m to win league cups. When you have more money and far better players than everyone else winning two titles may not be easy but it isn’t as difficult as it is for others. They weren’t far off that ratio with Pellegrini and Mancini combined and they aren’t great managers.

It depends on what you consider great football. City bore the life out of me at times.
 

cyberman

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Totally agree. Klopp has won it playing more entertaining football than Pep and without the massive advantages. Pep won titles at City but it is the equivalent of cheating on a computer game.

It pains me to say that about Liverpool as a United fan. But I respect Klopp at Liverpools achievements so much more than Pep and City. I think most football fans do.
Liverpool have been boring this year, there isnt anything exciting about them.
They are so close to Joses first Chelsea stint thats its almost a carbon copy
 

acnumber9

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You implied he was similar to those before him by saying he’s won two titles in four years and the other two won two in four and a bit; which isn’t even true anyway.
To say the league cup doesn’t matter is weird, all the cups are important to win, and having a season with city where they win the league and both cups in one season is fantastic to them.
People saying he’s not a success unless he wins the champions league should remember we only won two of them with Fergie, it’s not an easy competition to win.
The ratio of League titles won is similar. City could easily have been on their way to three titles in 5 years in total and two in four under Pellegrini when they decided he wasn’t good enough. Why is two in four years under Guardiola considered great? He has by far the best squad and more finances than anyone else. He should be winning the league every other year at a minimum.

How often could Alex Ferguson spend more money than any other club in world football?
 

Dec9003

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The ratio of League titles won is similar. City could easily have been on their way to three titles in 5 years in total and two in four under Pellegrini when they decided he wasn’t good enough. Why is two in four years under Guardiola considered great? He has by far the best squad and more finances than anyone else. He should be winning the league every other year at a minimum.

How often could Alex Ferguson spend more money than any other club in world football?
Mancini and Pellegrini won two in seven seasons, Pep has won two in four whilst picking up more cups and getting massively better point totals. He’s won one more trophy than Pellegrini and Mancini combined in three less seasons.
I think it city fans read the things you was saying they’d be peeing themselves, they’ve been a really good side for about three years now, one off season when they have still won a trophy and have the chance for more doesn’t change that.
 

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I feel like saying the league cup doesn’t matter is something the scousers used to say when they weren’t winning anything.
Its nice to win and can be a very good thing for a team on the up who are not used to winning things but I'd considered it a bit like the Europa, I wouldn't be dancing in the streets over it.
 

acnumber9

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They couldnt beat Villa long before Pep was announcement and they had took like 4 points from 11 games!
You are talking absolute shite. They had 18 points from the 11 games before Guardiola was appointed. Still shite but you’re being ridiculous.
 

Dec9003

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Its nice to win and can be a very good thing for a team on the up who are not used to winning things but I'd considered it a bit like the Europa, I wouldn't be dancing in the streets over it.
I’d agree, it’s not like winning the champions league but It’s a major trophy, the elite clubs want all the trophies not just the biggest possible.
 

Mark_Barca

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You are talking absolute shite. They had 18 points from the 11 games before Guardiola was appointed. Still shite but you’re being ridiculous.
What are you slabbering about?

Its FACTUAL that Aston Villa had took 4 points from 11 games prior to the 0-0 with Man City.

Stop lying ffs.
 

acnumber9

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Mancini and Pellegrini won two in seven seasons, Pep has won two in four whilst picking up more cups and getting massively better point totals. He’s won one more trophy than Pellegrini and Mancini combined in three less seasons.
I think it city fans read the things you was saying they’d be peeing themselves, they’ve been a really good side for about three years now, one off season when they have still won a trophy and have the chance for more doesn’t change that.
They had won two titles in the five years before Guardiola took over. Not much point in talking about City winning leagues when Micah Richards and Wayne Bridge were their starting full backs. Would Guardiola have won the league with them when they’d just finished 10th?

I’m not saying he isn’t better than them. I’m saying he’s achieved the bare minimum a man with his reputation, squad and finances should be expected to do to date. Massively better points totals are great but you get one trophy for them. They aren’t much use when you follow it up with what is a poor season for a team with that much quality in it. City fans can pee themselves all they want but they’ve just been beaten to the title by an inferior squad.
 

acnumber9

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What are you slabbering about?

Its FACTUAL that Aston Villa had took 4 points from 11 games prior to the 0-0 with Man City.

Stop lying ffs.
I thought you were referring to Man City. Apologies. How does it compare to losing to Norwich who took 6 points from 11 games following them beating City?
 

acnumber9

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I’d agree, it’s not like winning the champions league but It’s a major trophy, the elite clubs want all the trophies not just the biggest possible.
Not quite as elite as the World Club cup though.
 

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I think it's a shame that top clubs across Europe don't have the same reservations about Pep that our esteemed manager evaluators on the Caf have. Imagine him at Leeds... They would probably be in danger of relegation to League 1
 

Sandikan

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Take your City glasses off mate.

Peps best players now were there when he took over -KDB,Aguero,Sterling. Also Silva only began to decline last season. He then broke premiership spending records on top of that.

Yes, Pep has won trophies, but if you can't accept the massive advantage he has had you need to take your blinkers off.

And this is before getting into the financial irregularities of Manchester City and How much they are really spending.
Totally this.

And for all the stick Jose got about spending he had to buy a quality cm and striker in Pogba and Lukaku for 160m or so while Pep walked into having Aguero and De Bruyne.

City's best players in Pep's time were all inherited.
That is quite an advantage.

Can be rebuild now Silva is off, Kompany isn't there, Aguero is on the wane etc