This.
It's clear so far he can only do well when the starting 11 is fit and healthy and clueless once they get tired from him playing them in every match.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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It's clear so far he can only do well when the starting 11 is fit and healthy and clueless once they get tired from him playing them in every match.
I am not Ole's biggest fan and honestly I think it was a mistake not to throw the FA semifinal away by fielding a weak side. However in normal circumstances I can't really blame Ole for not squad rotating. Our strength in depth is basically cack. Honestly I struggle to understand what the likes of Rojo, Tuanzebe, Fosu-something, Dalot, Jones, Mata, Sanchez, Periera, JLingz and co bring to the table. All are shit and most are injury prone players as well.
“He can do well only when...”? What kind of manager would do well with Mata, Lingard, Pereira starting? Did you see Fred’s “performance”? He had a good run but let’s not pretend he’s a patch on Matic, Pogba or Bruno even on their “off“ days. The revisionism and blinkered views on Ole aren’t sensible.
We’re a point behind Chelsea. They’ve to play Liverpool and Wolves while we play WHU and Leicester. If we finish ahead of them, it won’t be “because we had a friendly run in”. It’ll be because we both played the same teams home and away and we did better - despite missing our best players for significant portions of the season.
There are people who are firmly in 2 camps, "Rest everyone for the FA cup game" and "How dare you not play the best 11 in FA cup semi final", whatever Ole does it would be wrong for other camp.
I'm in rest our best players camp btw, we need top 4 this season as we will lose lot of money which will impact on our transfers.
A Chelsea who sold their best player, has a new manager and had a transfer ban.
The fact that we're behind them despite all that is a fecking joke. Nobody would have thought that Chelsea would be anywhere near the top 4 with their squad and manager before the season begun.
Ole's just not that good when thinga go bad and he literally does nothing but stick to the same lineup and hope something changes by some miracle.
And somehow Ole has managed to feck up both by throwing away the game and putting on our best players to chase the game and ruining their rest for the league game.
Ok
Why he didn't start ighalo yesterday? Bruno and ighalo connect very well.
Ok, i am in Ole out camp without ifs and buts. And i expained that many times. It is not just results, he just is not good enough. But i agree that other side has also some valid reasons. Now, when is obvious that he will be our coach next year i must ask; if next year around Christmas our situation is that we are not in title challenge and we are around 4th or 5th (so fighting for CL again) will that be for sacking or you all think that his peak will be in 2021/2022 season?
To be honest I had no expectations from last match. Chelsea have lot of depth in their squad, and by rotation their standard doesn't drop drastically. Lampard has wisely leveraged this strength and kept his players as fresh as possible. It is always going to be difficult going against such team when your players are tired, no matter how talented they are.
I really don't understand the Ole outers. We've been unbeaten in 19 games before yesterday, what more do you want. Yes, he got it wrong, but who doesn't do it sometimes.
That is the thing. He too often does that.
I have a theory about managers (well it is only a theory so it maybe be false); most managers are specialists. Perfect for some jobs but not for others. For example big Sam is good for saving clubs from relegation, Pep is a manager who will bring you trophies but he needs perfect conditions (perfect players), some coaches will offer you trophies (Jose in past) but without nice football etc...
Ole is type who will give you entertaining football, promote youth, give stability and when he leaves he will leave foundations to next manager. But he is not a manager who will bring you trophies. For that you must have much bigger tactical knowledge than he has. Too often he is outsmarted by other managers and too often he makes wrong decisions regarding team selection, tactics and in game management. Our football is nice to watch but it is pretty simple and very easy to counter for clubs which have similiar quality.
Manchester United should not be a club where managers learn their job.
Same as this year. He will get the same excuses. It is Manchester United after all, a club whose sole purpose is to unconditionally serve the manager (and especially if he is a legend like Ole).
Being in a comfortable position to qualify for UCL especially with Spurs and Arsenal being shit, and Chelsea selling their best player in the same season they hired a rookie manager and had a transfer ban. That would be a good start of what more I would have wanted.
Some of you are moving mad. I'm not convinced about him but accusing him of running players into the ground etc. Probably the same lot complaining about James and Lingard.
Outside our XI and a couple of midfielders, the rest are shit.
Outside our XI and a couple of midfielders, the rest are shit.
True, but surely you should be able to handle using 10 of the first team players and one of the weaker backups, let someone rest and still produce good stuff? We haven't even done that.
How have you described that an agenda can be about something other than the subject? Example 1 is about who the subject is not, which is the same thing. And Example 2 is about who the subject is.
Anyway look i and I'm sure most fans would love ole to succeed, I mean why not? He's such a nice man and he's a legend and he reminds me of a time where I fell in love with football and united. But that doesn't mean we can't judge him on what we see on the pitch my only agenda is to want whats best for united.
You've clearly not spent enough time in this thread.
I think he's done a great job but he should have gone full reserve team yesterday. Lingard instead of Bruno, McT instead of Matic, Ighalo instead of Rashford. The senior players are knackered and top 4 is the only priority.
It's more than that for me. It's a great season considering where we are.
Ole got the system wrong yesterday and played into Chelsea's hand. The players again have shown to let him down. 3 mistakes 3 goals.
Everyone on here criticising Ole for making changes and he can only manage with the best 11. Well, I think any team without Pogba, Martial, Greenwood would struggle if the replacements are James, Fred and Bailly.
Why would you start Matic when you play 3 at the back? Dan James has done nothing since lockdown.
It was a very tired performance.
Everyone on here criticising Ole for making changes and he can only manage with the best 11. Well, I think any team without Pogba, Martial, Greenwood would struggle if the replacements are James, Fred and Bailly.
Why would you start Matic when you play 3 at the back? Dan James has done nothing since lockdown.
It was a very tired performance.
Another trophy for him this year then. Next is 4th spot trophy. And final 8 in EL is another i guess. Wow, treble in his first full season.
Let's take it from the top. After Ferguson we had Moyes, Giggs, vanGaal and Mourinho. Every manager with there own style of football and that effects club from inside out. When you make all those changes in a couple of year, you are in deep trouble. To fix and repair things will take time.
The reason Mourinho got sacked was not for his points. Even if that was also included. The main reason, and I like Mourinho and think his football knowledge is top class, was that he lost controll over team, club and everything. He was "fighting" with everyone at the end. The outcome of that was just to be one. Getting sacked. Sadly but true. We can blame everyone but he lost controll over situation.
How has Solskjaer taken club backwards? Just put aside this point obsession down and tell me. How? Didn't you see how the club and team felt in the preseason of last season with Mourinho? I have not seen that toxic enviroment since, I can't remember. If anything, Solskjaer have stopped this bus from going over the cliff and turn it around. He is slowly building a team and a squad. That takes little bit of time. Couple of months ago when I was defending him in that worse peroid I said, this isn't football manager. It is not push a button and start a new season and that take few minutes. We are talking about real life.
In wich way is he horrific in tactics? What does he wrong? Yes, he is not the one who knows everything and does make misstakes. But no manager is free from misstakes. So what specific makes him horrific?
Your hate is pretty clear. It is about him personally. I'm just waiting now for to usual, bring in Pochettino, Nagelsmann, Alegri, Farke, Howe and so on.
Ok maybe yore right, im just sceptical and i believe with good reason.
This. Absolutely this. He went in between, which was stupid in my opinion. Played some of the stars. Then, we struggled and had to chase the game, so we ended up playing all the key players for long spells. You either go for it, or you all out rest people. He should have all out rested in my opinion. Cup is basically meaningless these days.
It does seem like it's the collective quality of our players that wins us games, rather than the tactical nous of our manager.
One day, everyone in this forum will come to this conclusion.
I seriously don't get this b*tchin an moaning about our starting XI yesterday.
If Ole completely dumps on the FA Cup and fields the weakest possible XI he will be torn apart for purposefully failing to win a trophy.
If he picks a strong starting XI he is risking top 4 and players desperately need a rest with fatigue clearly being a huge issue in our recent games.
The reality of what actually happened was, he picked a pretty strong starting XI, with some players rested and he tried to address fatigue in key areas.
What's the issue with starting 3 CB's vs Chelsea? I mean, he'd previously beaten them 3 times with a similar tactical set up. https://www.sofascore.com/chelsea-manchester-united/mcYb
What's the issue with adding in some fresh legs to the back line in Bailly to perhaps cover for Lindelof & Maguire's fatigue? He can't control injuries.
What's the issue with dropping Pogba after he has played 260 mins of football in 9 days?
What's the issue with picking 2 of our 3 in form Center mids to start?
What's the issue with resting Martial and playing James? He clearly was trying to play counter attacking football and replaced pace with pace in James for Martial, with the former being completely fresh. Martial came on when the game was 0-0, what did a worn out Martial offer us in the 2nd half anyway? I like Martial but the point being is he is clearly worn out himself.
Basically the formation had worked previously and if it ain't broken.................
Ole knows he doesn't have 20 class players to replace like for like, so he has to make do with what he has as much as possible.
If Ole completely dumps on the FA Cup and fields the weakest possible XI he will be torn apart for purposefully failing to win a trophy.
If he picks a strong starting XI he is risking top 4 and players desperately need a rest with fatigue clearly being a huge issue in our recent games.
The reality of what actually happened was, he picked a pretty strong starting XI, with some players rested and he tried to address fatigue in key areas.
What's the issue with starting 3 CB's vs Chelsea? I mean, he'd previously beaten them 3 times with a similar tactical set up. https://www.sofascore.com/chelsea-manchester-united/mcYb
What's the issue with adding in some fresh legs to the back line in Bailly to perhaps cover for Lindelof & Maguire's fatigue? He can't control injuries.
What's the issue with dropping Pogba after he has played 260 mins of football in 9 days?
What's the issue with picking 2 of our 3 in form Center mids to start?
What's the issue with resting Martial and playing James? He clearly was trying to play counter attacking football and replaced pace with pace in James for Martial, with the former being completely fresh. Martial came on when the game was 0-0, what did a worn out Martial offer us in the 2nd half anyway? I like Martial but the point being is he is clearly worn out himself.
Basically the formation had worked previously and if it ain't broken.................
Ole knows he doesn't have 20 class players to replace like for like, so he has to make do with what he has as much as possible.
Yeah, he went for a halfway house which didn't achieve anything. So our top players are still knackered and we're out of a competition.
As you say, the FA's tinkering has made the cup meaningless. The 'romance' is totally outdated.
The bigger concern for me is fatigue plays a part in us missing out on CL now. Silly team selection in my opinion. And I'm an Ole fan.
I think that’s what made it worse. He didn’t completely dump the starting line up so a fan you feel invested. Then he just dumped the tactics instead and got knocked out like he dumped the line up.
He was better off having a back bone and playing Romero, Ighalo and those types and making it clear Maguire, Rashford etc was being rested. Instead he piled on the minutes, affect confidence levels like Rashford by throwing him under the bus tactically and now we go into Wednesday with the fear of failure again.
Noted you can’t justify for DDG’s errors. But now he’ll carry that into Wednesday when he shouldn’t have even been playing. So he’s given himself another unnecessary problem of does he have to drop him. Hopefully Ole passes the test for Wednesday but I fear the players are burnt.
Most have come to that conclusion i would think. He is just an average manager on the sidelines keeping the spirit high and preaching the United way. The only thing good about him is that he gets rid of some deadwood.
He didn't dump on anything, he didn't dump on the starting XI nor the formation.
The formation had a history of working, so why not try it again?
Chelsea had 4 days rest and it clearly showed the difference.
Ole attempted to address fatigue / energy levels by adding some fresh legs.
Sadly as another poster put it, when your dropping Martial for James, Pogba for Fred and adding in Bailly, they aren't exactly great options to have as replacements.
Ole had a mare yesterday. If you are going for this formation, Chelsea have clearly improved and they press high. It was a game for Ighalo not James.
I am a huge fan of Ole but yesterday he done everything wrong.
Wrong formation, wrong tactics, wrong team selection.
We all knew Chelsea will play 3 at the back, they are used to playing 3 at the back. We have not played 3 for a while and had 2 days to prepare for it. Absolutely clueless.
Chelsea played with Mount, Willian, Giroud up top, why didnt we push up as a defensive line? It was naive tactics. Soak up pressure and hope for Rashford magic.
James playing as a striker when he can barely hold up a football is nonsense.
I am a huge fan of Ole but yesterday he done everything wrong.
Wrong formation, wrong tactics, wrong team selection.
We all knew Chelsea will play 3 at the back, they are used to playing 3 at the back. We have not played 3 for a while and had 2 days to prepare for it. Absolutely clueless.
Chelsea played with Mount, Willian, Giroud up top, why didnt we push up as a defensive line? It was naive tactics. Soak up pressure and hope for Rashford magic.
James playing as a striker when he can barely hold up a football is nonsense.
people are forgetting Poch improves players and got an average squad Spurs into the top 4 every season bar 1 and a champions league final, something we have not done for 10 years while our biggest rival have won the two biggest trophies in the past 2 years, if he goes to Newcastle with a pot of gold and suddenly does what Pep has done at City will the same people come back on this forum and say we should have signed him In 2020 when Ole 7th or 8th with a 45% win rate next season, I genuinely love Ole and want him to succeed but everything in his makeup tells me he’s not quite ruthless enough to be a truly elite Manager!Poch
people must be on the wind up.
How can you watch us since the restart and the way we are playing..........and think we need Poch in because he will win 100% of his matches, was excellent in cup wins and was proper challenging for the league every season, he will defo come in and improve on the best form team over this period since start of the year.
Mind boggling the reactions after this game. Unrealistic in tbe grand scheme of things
Ole damned if he does and really damned if he doesnt
Keep of course. But I'll be honest In a scenario where we miss out on top 4 and don't win Europa then things will be looking very very bleak again and most likely will make the squad building this summer very difficult.
Things can change very fast
Things can change very fast
That is not the only thing good about him, he really has a good energy that influence his players and can improve them. But he has many defects in his game. I am very happy that Jose is not our manager. But Ole should be here not because he is Ole the player. He should be here because he is a top top manager.
Picking a formation that had beaten Chelsea 3 times previously is clueless?
How is picking something that previously works, wrong? That isn't logic, that doesn't make sense.
Ighalo doesn't offer pace, if you want to play counter football you need pace. Ighalo would of been the wrong choice.
It's not the majority obviously but there's a few of them.
Think one of them might be on a little break now though.
You're damn right it's about him personally. A supposed legend defends the Glazers (after being against them as a player), lies to our fans, says Glazers INVESTED money in Man United, calls fans who sang against Glazers fake, calls fans not coming to the stadium fake etc. etc. If anyone else did this everybody would be up their throat. Why do you lower your standards now??
He's horrific because he always uses the same team, the same tactics and if the other manager as much as moves one player 10 meters on one side or the other he has no clue how to react. He has no clue about physical preparation, about lowering and raising the intensity of the team according to different parts of the year. He's a horrible horrible manager that won't have another job in any of the top 5 leagues once he fecks out of here, no doubt in my mind about that.
No I'm not gonna put the 'point obsession' aside. Points are literally what determines how good your season in the league is. Literally what you need to have more of than your opponent to be better than them. And what makes it worse is that all the other clubs aside from top two are literally falling apart around us. This is the worst Prem season in a long time and we're still fighting tooth and nail for a top 4 spot.
Situation under Mourinho became that toxic because he wasn't backed properly. He finished 2nd with THIS team more or less and didn't get any of his targets to improve upon that. I agree he had to go when he did, but it never should've gotten to that point in the first place.
Also don't give me that crap about 'takes time to fix and repair things'. As I said yesterday just a little more than 20 months ago being second was not good enough. 81 pts was not good enough. Being 20pts behind our city rivals was not good enough. We had a team good enough for the title according to our fans. What tf changed then?
Because according to our fans we got rid of a toxic manager, we got a club legend who has developed the best team spirit in years, our new manager recruited excellently and got rid of deadwood from the previous toxic manager. Following logic and thinking of our fans we have a better manager and a better squad than 20 months ago and better atmosphere than we've ever had since SAF left and we STILL have the worst season in 30 years. How is that possible, explain please? It's not because other teams are better, we had more pts with Mourinho at 6th couple years ago.
World of football is dominated by money. Every other league is being won 90% of the time by the team with most money, except EPL. We generate more money annually than any other club not named RM or Barca. We must have the standards in line with that. I don't buy the crap about rebuilds, doing it the right way, United way, United DNA etc. We have the money, stature and power to be winning Premier League titles in no more than 12 months from now.
There's no other industry in the world in which failure is excused this much, even welcomed. Organizations that have the conditions to be successful right away intentionally delaying it for some idiotic reasons. How do you think RM or Barcelona would react being 37 points behind each other, missing out on CL football?
THAT's how Ole took the club backwards. Things that weren't acceptable at any point in our history, let alone as recently as 2 years ago, are now welcomed and celebrated. The standards haven't been lowered, they don't exist anymore.
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