Actually there are another two massive differences (though not as big as De Gea). AWB and Shaw instead of Valencia/Young and Rojo/Young.
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Both Maguire and Lindelof are better defenders, better footballers and more reliable than Smalling. I don’t think there is a debate here.
Valencia was very good at right back. Young might not be very good but he does a good job in there.
Neither were as good (at defending) as AWB and Shaw. Which is what matters for defense.
I don't think that either of them has been as important as De Gea (especially De Gea on Mourinho's second season, where he was a superman), but they have helped on improving the defense.
Don’t think it’s fair to judge based on conceded goals then because no point being good defending if player like Bissaka can’t keep possession and lose it in dangerous area and put our defense in dangerous situation, top of it if DDG himself has massive hole through his gloves. Valencia is very good in keeping possession while under pressure.
Yeh. DDG was definitely on his prime and helped lowering the goals concede. On other side, our fullbacks were worse also. So it's hard to gauge how much improvement the defence have made this season to priors.
Worth noting that in 2015/16 season, it was Smalling with United POTY (not DDG). And if memory served, it's not debatable as when Shaw got one (last season?).
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If we struggle to sign a defender this summer/autumn we should consider keeping him around as a squad man. He is more reliable than Jones who is surely on his way out the door now. I'd be happy for him to play a part but he is 4th choice CB in my mind, if he was happy to fill that role then great. Not sure he would go for it, who knows.
Yeah Smalling was solid no doubt, I don't know why people argued about his defending but so does Valencia, he won our POTY in 16/17, as a full back he was also very good and he wasn't praised good with his end product as a full back but actually his defensive attribute.
The only obvious difference that I can see here between the previous seasons and now is that DDG was superb while DDG now is way too far in comparison to back then. That DDG would have reduced our goal conceded for sure. I won't see much difference if we replace Bissaka with Valencia, I probably fancy Valencia more since he's much better on the ball when under pressure from opposition. Bissaka is sometimes conceded possession cheaply in dangerous area.
Whether you want to say Shaw is better than Young, it's debatable. Young at best been known to be able to own lot of top players in big games. I rate both Blind & Smalling above Lindelof defensively.
Sure. He was around during 16/17. But he did not play much. He started 13 games O thinl. We conceded 16 goals during these 13 games. In fact, our best spell came with Rojo and Jones at the back.
He did play alot in 17/18 but the figures are very misleading. We were actually very poor in defence and conceded a lot of chances. xgA that year was above 40 (according to statsbomb). De Gea was considered the best GK in the world for a reason! And while having converted wingers as fullbacks, we were set up so defensive.
In 15/16 we were also set up very defensively. But yes, he did look a lot better under van Gaal.
Clearance off the line and an assist from Smalling on his return to the Roma team, with a 6 - 1 away win against Spal2013
They are both better at passing the ball, bringing it forward themselves and more comfortable when in possession. Smalling is better defensively.
I don’t think he is much better defensively, if at all. Absence always seems to make players better. People seem to forget that he was often error-prone and could commit the odd howler too. Smalling would do well at Everton or Newcastle and be a decent option, but he is not any solution to any problem at a club like United.
He made the odd mistake, but less than what we've seen from Maguire and Lindelof this season. Nothing to do with his absence. Even before we signed Maguire many of us who had watched him a fair bit said that he wasn't as good defensively as Smalling but would hopefully be a better player overall. As it turns out he hasn't been as good (this season at least) as we hoped, so even with his better all-round game it's debatable whether he's been better than Smalling has been most of his seasons here.
In terms of pure defensive ability he was always one of the best in the league. There's a reason he so often dominated most of the top attackers that we faced (to the extent that even the official FA Cup twitter account joked about his domination of Kane). It was his limitation on the ball that held him back.
I've been saying it since the start of this season and it has showed to be true that we miss his ability to dominate his area defensively. Not only on set pieces, but also in terms of helping the team retrieve possession. Lindelof doesn't even try to contest players for the ball 1vs1 so we end up having to bring the whole team back to defend and crowd our area. Doing this sometimes is safe which is fine, the problem is it happens every fecking time we lose the ball or we're hit with a long ball.
All teams have to do against us is to play the long ball up to a lone striker and he'll hold the ball up until our team has run back. Then we play slowly out the back while the other team press us high. We should be the ones to dominate possession and be aggressive to sustain attacking pressure and press high. We should be less concerned about playing through the pressure, and more concerned with avoiding having to do that by keeping the ball in the team, winning the ball back quickly when we lose it and keep attacking.
I also miss his goals.
All teams have to do against us is to play the long ball up to a lone striker and he'll hold the ball up until our team has run back. Then we play slowly out the back while the other team press us high. We should be the ones to dominate possession and be aggressive to sustain attacking pressure and press high. We should be less concerned about playing through the pressure, and more concerned with avoiding having to do that by keeping the ball in the team, winning the ball back quickly when we lose it and keep attacking.
I also miss his goals.
Also did great here when we had the 2nd best defensive record by 1 goal in the league 2 seasons ago, coming 2nd. A much better defensive record than now. And he was playing next to Phil Jones
He was also playing in a Jose Mourinho side and that matters. He wouldn’t be any serious upgrade to what we have now. At best, he is a backup, and when you don’t really fancy your backup, you don’t play him anyway, as we have seen with Ole since the restart.
If we can get £20 million for Smalling, we have to go out and get it.
Smalling was definitely much better defensively than either Lindelof or Maguire, I thought he regressed last season but who wouldn't when your manager throws you under the bus as Mourinho did. I haven't seen much of him with Roma to judge if that was a permanent decline or just a blip.
Btw playing under Mourinho doesn't help defenders as much as people think nowadays, our midfield shape on 2017/2018 wasn't exactly very good and left our defense and goalkeeper quite vulnerable most of the time.
Btw playing under Mourinho doesn't help defenders as much as people think nowadays, our midfield shape on 2017/2018 wasn't exactly very good and left our defense and goalkeeper quite vulnerable most of the time.
Oh Jose Mourinho side huh, hows Spurs defensive record?
Thats right its their weakness and they've let in 10 more goals than we have
Out of what we have right now, he's worth a try next to Maguire. If we spend on a really good CB then yes, £20 million is okay
Not extending his loan deal with roma so cant play in the Europa.
If we plan on keeping him yea fine, but if we were hoping to sell him to Roma they could take the hump with us.
If we plan on keeping him yea fine, but if we were hoping to sell him to Roma they could take the hump with us.
It’s their weakness because he has woeful personnel at Tottenham. Smalling would be fine for them! They have the two past their best Belgians, a sub-par Davies, a terrible Aurier, a raw youngster and Eric Dier!Oh Jose Mourinho side huh, hows Spurs defensive record?
Thats right its their weakness and they've let in 10 more goals than we have
Out of what we have right now, he's worth a try next to Maguire. If we spend on a really good CB then yes, £20 million is okay
I would be more inclined to look at his whole career of defensive set-ups and history of building teams with a clear focus on defensive shape. Bar the Sheffield United game, he has only conceded 4 in their last 8 games too.
Smalling would be great at a team like Burnley where his only duty is to defend. He is not a great defender, but he is a good one and can do a job in an organised system.
I don’t think he was ever really Manchester United class though and certainly isn’t the solution in 2020. He isn’t far enough ahead of Maguire or Lindelof defensively (I don’t think he is ahead at all) to justify giving him yet another go.
Sell him, sell Jones, get Rojo off the wage bill and let’s aim for better. It’s certainly worked with Bruno.
Smalling is better defensively than both Maguire and Lindelof. This is not even open to debate.
I hardly find posts that I agree with every word of it, but this is one of them
If Lindelof is gonna be a starter next season I want Smalling back
Would have Smalling as part of the squad in a heart beat.
I can’t imagine there is any Utd fan that would argue he’s not better than Bailly, Rojo or Smalling.
There’s a debate about ether he’s better than Lindelof, but in my opinion he wins hands down.
Unfortunately due to the shit we have at CB he’s the only one we can sell for a fee.
I can’t imagine there is any Utd fan that would argue he’s not better than Bailly, Rojo or Smalling.
There’s a debate about ether he’s better than Lindelof, but in my opinion he wins hands down.
Unfortunately due to the shit we have at CB he’s the only one we can sell for a fee.
How has he been for Roma? I like Smalling, but have barely watched Roma this season.
Looking at the table it is not looking that bright for them.
Looking at the table it is not looking that bright for them.
Best CB in the league in the first half of the season, then a patch of 4 or so games where he really wasnt that good in Feb- along with Roma's defense going to poop in general.
Wasnt that good after the league restarted but now a big win on his return to the side
Chris vs Mike?
I agree though, I'd have him back in the mix and be rid of Rojo, Jones and probably Bailly but we'll more than likely sell him to Roma because he's actually a useful player.
Couldn't Smalling be used as a makeweight for Kouilbilay or Skriniar?
Easy debate.
Defending
Smalling > Mag, Lind
Better footballer
Smalling < Mag, Lind
Reliable where?
Defending set-piece | Smalling > Mag, Lind
Attacking set-piece | Smalling = Maguire > Lindelof
On the ball/Possession etc | Smalling < Mag, Lind
Defending 1on1 | Smalling = Lind > Mag
Defending air | Smalling = Mag > Lind
Power contest | Smalling = Mag > Lind
Mistakes? | Smalling = Mag = Lind
In the VAR era, Smalling could be getting penalized for shirt pulling at every set piece. Let's not let his absence make the player better.
I am perfectly fine with someone saying that Smalling is a better defender. I don’t agree at all and think Maguire and Lindelof have done far better than Smalling would have in a more progressive and attacking team. But in any case, I will accept that some feel like it’s a debate. I concede that.
What I can’t see is that the difference is big enough to make up for Smallings lack of technical ability. If he is a better defender, it’s not by enough of a margin to make him a starter ahead of either.
If we bring in someone else, he would need to be a clearly better option. Smalling is definitely not this. He would be a good signing for Crystal Palace
I really think that some are remembering all the good of Smalling and none of the bad. He was infuriating at times.
Yeah, Smalling's lack of technical abilities on the ball just doesn't fit our current playing style. If we can get someone better and younger at that, would be great. He does have few things which our CB just doesn't have and so he can cover that weakness in our squad, but he is also a culprit at not being capable at certain things. It's really tricky.
I think people are still aware of his bad qualities, despite the praises and wanting him to return.
Anyway, fair enough, I've also read your other posts and replies to other posters.
Just curious if anyone can answer this.
1. Has there been any cases of penalty given for shirt pulling by VAR? If yes, how many in EPL? Shirt pulling/grabbing at set-piece is still common in PL games despite the VAR.
2. Serie A have been using VAR though many of its implementations is arguably still not at good level. How many penalties did Smalling given for shirt pulling there?
G+A/games Stats
Contexts are really important for each player, teams and season.
Interesting to their scoring+assisting rates are generally consistent and not affected much by being in different teams and seasons.
I miss Smalling's aerial threats, he's consistent at that. G/A stats showed both Mag and Smalling are that good and consistent in set-piece scoring+assisting per season. More detailed stats eg. how many heading attempts in set-piece, etc would no doubt support this even more. Imagine having them both titans in the air during our set-piece. Some of their goals are also not during set-piece, but during open play.
| 19/20 | Smalling | Mag | Lind |
| G/g | 2/35 = 0.06 | 3/52 = 0.06 | 1/45 = 0.02 |
| A/g | 2/35 = 0.06 | 3/52 = 0.06 | 1/45 = 0.02 |
| 18/19 | Smalling | Mag | Lind |
| G/g | 1/34 = 0.03 | 3/32 = 0.09 | 1/40 = 0.03 |
| A/g | 0 | 0 | 1/40 = 0.03 |
| 17/18 | Smalling | Mag | Lind |
| G/g | 4/46 = 0.09 | 2/44 = 0.05 | 0 |
| A/g | 0 | 3/44 = 0.07 | 0 |
| 16/17 | Smalling | Mag | Lind |
| G/g | 2/36 = 0.06 | 3/36 = 0.08 | 1/47 = 0.02 |
| A/g | 2/36 = 0.06 | 3/36 = 0.08 | 0 |
Contexts are really important for each player, teams and season.
Interesting to their scoring+assisting rates are generally consistent and not affected much by being in different teams and seasons.
I miss Smalling's aerial threats, he's consistent at that. G/A stats showed both Mag and Smalling are that good and consistent in set-piece scoring+assisting per season. More detailed stats eg. how many heading attempts in set-piece, etc would no doubt support this even more. Imagine having them both titans in the air during our set-piece. Some of their goals are also not during set-piece, but during open play.
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Yes because they don't have VAR in serie A
You tell me. You seem to have every other statistic accumulated like his agent negotiating a contract. Roma are indeed bottom 5 in the league for penalties conceded. So are Juventus, who happen to be champions, so may be a serie A watcher can educate here.
It also takes a while for a player to develop a profile with the referees and may be that hasn't happened yet in Italy but he is already known for it with English referees and conceded a penalty without VAR. For someone supposedly good at set piece defence as you claim, he does hold onto jerseys often.
To my knowledge Smalling has cost Roma 3 penalties this season. Two were handball where one was very much debatable, and one very clumsy. And then one plain and simple foul.
I think he has adapted to VAR and stopped pulling shirts. Some claim that’s why he has some problems nowadays.
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