Apart from his passing, what did Smalling actually do wrong? And are you against him coming back next season?

[MikeKing]

I think he is imperious defensively and against the likes of Mbappe, Kane, Vardy, Salah, Richardlison and Messi you need someone to knock their bones out of their nose. The fact is, even if we're able to play out from the back, win the midfield battle, keep the ball and then create chances against 10 players sitting deep, even with all that, we're still vulnerable to counter attacks with our lack of pace. Quality teams like Madrid will crush us on the break, they adapt by letting us have the ball, press our midfielders while our CB's ponder on the ball and give nothing to our attackers. We need someone that can hold their own defensively against top level forwards.

Especially in cup games where you want to win every game Smalling would offer solidity, pace, strength, leadership, aggressiveness etc. I've always admired his way of winning the ball aggressively staying in the pocket and he does it quickly. He does this and give the ball quickly to someone else, preferably to someone who wont lose the ball immediately and can either recycle possession or play a quick creative pass to instantly turn defence into attack. If you have someone like Verratti for instance then having a player like Smalling makes a lot of sense.

Honestly, I like that we're being trained to be calm enough on the ball to make the right choices without wasting the ball, but I'm not of the opinion that our CB's should spend as much time on the ball as they are currently doing. Sure get on the ball, but please pass it to the midfielders quicker instead of pondering on the ball without any pressure. It's a byproduct of CB's getting cute on the ball when there is no risk, and I don't by into it. Just defend first, get the ball first and then play.

 

[kundalini]

As a pure defender, how many of you actually believe Smalling is inferior to anything we have at the club? Apart from his grabby hands and poorness on the ball, the guy is rarely beaten as an actual CB and he doesn't come with a lack of strength, pace, bravery, athleticism or any kind of weakness in the air.

I see he's lumped in with Jones very flippantly by some posters here which doesn't make sense.

This talk of us being cash-strapped whilst needing to pad out the squad (post-Sancho) and get in a supplementary CB for Maguire when we still have Smalling, who is not the worst partner for Maguire by any means, is quite weird. Why is there talk of spending north of £50m on a CB when we have Smalling?

With regard to his passing., traditionally the onus is on the anchoring midfielder to alleviate the issue and take over the play as soon as possible. In the world of the high press, this is not ideal, of course, but even then, if Maguire is this ball-playing CB some people think he is, he gets more chance to showcase it in a traditional stopper/ball-player pairing, which he and Smalling would be.

If Smalling wants out, fair enough. But if we have him and he wants to stay, who is against him being our starting CB next season, and if you are against it, can you state why?

Last season PL matches: Smalling 24 starts goals conceded 37. Without him 14 games 17 goals conceded

2017/8 PL season: Smalling 28 starts 24 goals conceded. Without him 10 games 4 goals conceded

2016/7 PL season: Smalling 13 starts 16 goals conceded. Without him (including a few late sub appearances) 25 games 13 goals conceded

2015/6 PL season: hard to do a comparison because Smalling started 35 matches 31 goals conceded. In this season we conceded fewer per game when he started. We conceded 4 goals in the 3 games he missed.

2014/5 PL season: Smalling 21 starts 23 goals conceded while he was on the pitch (a few games in which he got injured early on or came on as early sub). Without him 13 games 10 goals conceded. 4 goals conceded while he wasn't on the pitch but did appear at some stage, approx equivalent to 4 full matches

2013/4 PL season: another confused picture as Smalling played right back 50% of the time. Anyway, we conceded 25 goals with him on the pitch in about 21 games (plus a little bit). 18 conceded when he was missing, approx 17 games (slightly less).

I used to like Smalling a lot but at what point does it become obvious that the team tends to concede more goals when he plays compared to when he doesn't ?

I do not understand why so many posters believe that Lindelof is the weak link in our defence. He isn't. The number of goals he was at fault for this season is very low when compared to Maguire's errors. Lindelof at fault for Palace's first goal when he failed to win the initial header, Southampton's equalizer when beaten in the air by Vestergaard and Southampton's late equalizer at Old Trafford. Lindelof partially at fault for: a better body position, facing away from the goal, might have prevented the own goal against Everton, though that was largely a De Gea error.

Maguire at fault for: Newcastle away poor attempt at a block (De Gea also at fault), Brighton home beaten in the air, Sheff United's 3rd goal, Man City away beaten in the air, Liv away beaten in the air, Burnley home poor marking for their 1st goal, Spurs away turned the wrong way (De Gea also at fault), Bournemouth's 1st goal (De Gea also at fault). Maguire also partially at fault for: conceding needless free-kick against Wolves that led to corner which led to goal, no cover yet managed to play Palace onside for their 1st goal (mainly Lindelof error), no block for Norwich's goal (mainly McTominay error for conceding possession), similar for Sheff United's 2nd goal (mainly Pereira error for conceding possession)

 

[Motorman]

I always rated Smalling as a defender and he was fast and strong with a bility to get head on amost balls.

Problem was his passing. Terrible feet and always looked uncomfortable on the ball.

Next to Maguire though, maybe he would complement well? I wouldn't mind giving him another chance

 

[Jonno]

Last season was a complete outlier. De Gea was probably even worse than what he was this season. Matic was played every game despite being absolutely terrible and letting opposition run straight at the defence every match. Young was playing on the right (which was always his weaker side when playing fullback) and was obviously 12-18 months past his peak. Mourinho started the season deliberately fecking around our defence to make a point and went out of his way to destroy their confidence.

Every other season with Smalling we had similar or better defensive stats than we had this season.

This season replacing Young with AWB and having decent cover in midfield made much bigger impacts than Maguire coming in (although he did help as well).

But you can't get away from the fact that we've swapped Smalling for Maguire and our defence has been one of the best in Europe despite DDG directly contributing to at least 6 goals being conceded.

 

[MikeKing]

Last season PL matches: Smalling 24 starts goals conceded 37. Without him 14 games 17 goals conceded

2017/8 PL season: Smalling 28 starts 24 goals conceded. Without him 10 games 4 goals conceded

2016/7 PL season: Smalling 13 starts 16 goals conceded. Without him (including a few late sub appearances) 25 games 13 goals conceded

2015/6 PL season: hard to do a comparison because Smalling started 35 matches 31 goals conceded. In this season we conceded fewer per game when he started. We conceded 4 goals in the 3 games he missed.

2014/5 PL season: Smalling 21 starts 23 goals conceded while he was on the pitch (a few games in which he got injured early on or came on as early sub). Without him 13 games 10 goals conceded. 4 goals conceded while he wasn't on the pitch but did appear at some stage, approx equivalent to 4 full matches

2013/4 PL season: another confused picture as Smalling played right back 50% of the time. Anyway, we conceded 25 goals with him on the pitch in about 21 games (plus a little bit). 18 conceded when he was missing, approx 17 games (slightly less).

I used to like Smalling a lot but at what point does it become obvious that the team tends to concede more goals when he plays compared to when he doesn't ?

I do not understand why so many posters believe that Lindelof is the weak link in our defence. He isn't. The number of goals he was at fault for this season is very low when compared to Maguire's errors. Lindelof at fault for Palace's first goal when he failed to win the initial header, Southampton's equalizer when beaten in the air by Vestergaard and Southampton's late equalizer at Old Trafford. A better body position, facing away from the goal, might have prevented the own goal against Everton, though that was largely a De Gea error.

It's not surprising stats considering our weak team, makeshift fullbacks, injuries and struggling managers during those times. I mean there is a lot of aspects that coincide with these stats but we're not looking into the details. A lot changed, not just if Smalling played or not. But it is interesting and it makes a lot of sense that people don't rate Smalling. Most fans just see a game of football and isn't that immersed in the details. They'll remember his face after every loss and when that has happened enough times you think Smalling=loss. Obviously that is incredibly unfair as he has had many good games going uncredited due to us losing that match.

 

[el3mel]

Smalling was a decent defender but he's definitely not good enough long term, and whatever we blame Maguire and Lindelof for, they're just better than him, and seems Ole thinks the same too.

 

[Valuedrug]

"Apart from his passing"

That's a pretty big caveat for a team that wants to play progressive, attacking football at the highest level in my opinion. I hope he leaves on a permanent deal as soon as possible. He had more than enough opportunities at United, and it seems he has settled fantastically in Rome. I don't need to watch him spend three full seconds positioning his body for a forward pass anymore, the club can keep building a defense worthy of a top side, and Chris gets to boss the defence of a storied club in Italian football.

If ever there was a win-win situation for all parties involved, surely this is it.

 

[youmeletsfly]

"Apart from his passing"?

One of the fundamental elements of the game is passing. There's no such thing as "apart from passing". If you're passing is bad, you can feck off, this is not sunday league, this is Man Utd.

 

[Ekeke]

He didnt do anything wrong. But fans dont understand defending.

Also he was playing next to Jones who has made a lot of individual errors and Smalling had some guilt by association. People lump them together. Why? I dont know. Both English?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think people love to blame our defense when our biggest problem has been in attack and creative midfield.
We have had talented player, but very defensive managers that has not got the best out of them.

 

[gajender]

It's not surprising stats considering our weak team, makeshift fullbacks, injuries and struggling managers during those times. I mean there is a lot of aspects that coincide with these stats but we're not looking into the details. A lot changed, not just if Smalling played or not. But it is interesting and it makes a lot of sense that people don't rate Smalling. Most fans just see a game of football and isn't that immersed in the details. They'll remember his face after every loss and when that has happened enough times you think Smalling=loss. Obviously that is incredibly unfair as he has had many good games going uncredited due to us losing that match.

Or they see Smalling for what he is ,a decent defender not average by any means but long way off being Elite even in defensive sense and that's before you factor in his issues on the ball.

 

[MikeKing]

Or they see Smalling for what he is ,a decent defender not average by any means but long way off being Elite even in defensive sense and that's before you factor in his issues on the ball.

If that's your opinion that is fine, but I was referring to the huge discrepancies in the opinions on him. Not the odd in-between stuff, but the usual nutter stuff you read.

 

[CG1010]

Bad positioning and decision making are his biggest flaws. Bigger than ball playing ability.

This. He was always a good defender on paper but in reality he is much worse than his ability suggests. I see him as I see Shaw - a solid option who could be a backup to our XI but doesn't belong in a title winning XI. Only difference in Shaw has time to improve but Smalling doesn't.

 

[IAmAWinner]

He's our best centre back. Never ever understood the decision to loan him out. As a pure defender, there isn't anyone at our club better than him.

 

[Suedesi]

Honestly people get into these heated Smalling discussions and I don't get it. You'd think we loaned/sold out Baresi incarnate. Just let it go.

Was he better than Jones? Yes
Was he better than Lindelof? Possibly - definitely in certain aspects (aerial, strength) not on certain other attributes (positioning, ball playing)
Was he better than Maguire? Again on certain aspects (speed, agility) he's better. On others he's not (passing, positioning, poise, presence, leadership)
Was he better than Rojo, Bailly. Again we can go all day analyzing and comparing attributes and on some he comes out on top on others he's just lacking.

He may be marginally better than Lindelof, but at the end of the day if we aspire to be top, we should get someone better than both. No point wasting braincells on these endless/fruitless debates.

 

[Revan]

None for smalling in italy anyway.

This myth will always stay with him

He has given 4 penalties this season which is shocking (the entire United has given 3). No idea if they were VAR related, but VAR doesn’t need to give anything if the referee has already given it.

 

[Fortitude]

I think I should point out at this juncture that a portion of my question was with regard to our budget being so tight, supposedly. The £50m, £60m or even north of that it would take to get the kind of CB you guys are talking about could surely be better utilised in other areas of the pitch when we actually have a CB on our books who is roundabout what you're likely to get for the lower end of that outlay... well, sort of, given Smalling's technique and passing are a few notches down whilst his athleticism is a few notches up on your typical non elite CB.

By all means, in another window where we have other parts of the team sorted, make the massive upgrade and go for the best CB that will come here, but for now, is it really the best use of limited resources?

 

[gajender]

If that's your opinion that is fine, but I was referring to the huge discrepancies in the opinions on him. Not the odd in-between stuff, but the usual nutter stuff you read.

I think Smalling is one of those players whose weaknesses as well as strengths are exaggerated depending on whether you are critic or an admirer
But he is definitely somebody who added value to the team but never took that final step and unfortunately once Sir Alex retired we never were able to create stable defense which complimented each other during Smalling's Prime and now I think it's time to move on from him as He certainly is a proud man who wants to play regular football.

 

[Manny]

"Apart from his passing"?

One of the fundamental elements of the game is passing. There's no such thing as "apart from passing". If you're passing is bad, you can feck off, this is not sunday league, this is Man Utd.

It is bit like saying "apart from not being able to score or assist, what did lingard actually do wrong"

 

[Dinghy]

It’s weird that Smalling at his best was playing in a highline in a possesion based team. We might not technically be a possesion based team now but we clearly want to play in a high line and out of all our defenders Smalling is the one I’d feel most comfortable with doing that.

Maybe he isn’t going to play defence splitting passes from this position and I’d give Lindelof and Bailly that over him but the way people speak about his passing is the usual Caf stupidity. Make it seem like he couldn’t pass 5 yards.

Possession based team = LVG's system where passing it slowly from side to side at the back until they were forced to play it back to the goalie for a hoof up to the big man? I don't think that counts as a possession based team.

 

[MadDogg]

But you can't get away from the fact that we've swapped Smalling for Maguire and our defence has been one of the best in Europe despite DDG directly contributing to at least 6 goals being conceded.

It went back to being one of the best, just like it was most other seasons with Smalling. As I said, last year is a complete outlier for a number of different reasons.

During the seasons that he was first choice we conceded 37, 35, 29 (arguably wasn't first choice this season), 28, and 54 goals in the league. This season we conceded 36. There's one standout season there and it was last season (for all the wrong reasons) so you need to look at what changed for that one particular season to cause such a poor showing. Obviously we solved that problem this season, but the problem obviously wasn't something that was also present during the four previous seasons where our defence did quite well.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Isn't that the expression for someone who's eternally injured?

As for building from the back we're by no means great but better than before. Maybe it's the fact we havent done it for a good while at all so we now look semi decent at it.
Bringing him back for squad option wouldn't be bad, our squad options at CB arent looking good. Maybe we'll go for another first team CB, it remains to see what Ole sees for that position. And you're right I doubt Mike would be happy with being an option from the bench.

Sorry for picking on a typo, it's meant to be crocked. I just love the image of Bailly as some kind of Del Boy Trotter character

I agree on pretty much all counts with you regarding Smalling. He's far from perfect with the ball at his feet but then I think there's many players in our team, certainly in the back six, who could be better. Implementing ideas with a squad of players takes time, so maybe they need more time working on it on the training pitch, but maybe we need changes in personnel too. As of right now though I would love to be rid of Rojo, Jones and probably Bailly, bring Smalling back as an option and go from there, but the player seems fixed on being a first choice CB so good luck to him.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

I can't believe in 2020 I have to ask would Smalling get in City's team? Liverpool? Chelsea?

Of course he wouldn't. Nevermind thinking of the top teams we might face in the Champions League.

It's idiotic for anyone to state that players of his ilk are what United need.

Ole has been great at clearing out the dead wood, the most important task he had. Bottling it now and letting failed players back is a ridiculous idea.

Wake up.

 

[Eire Red United]

I’d rather keep him for sure, far more reliable than any of our back up cb’s and definitely good enough to challenge Maguire and Lindelof.

 

[norm87cro]

He's better than Lindelof but we really shouldn't settle for either

 

[r3idy]

With Smalling, his heading was utter toilet. Literally the Epitome of 50p head. His positional sense left a lot to be desired and quite often his pace got him out of trouble when he shouldn't have been in it in the first place.

The other point people are quick to forget is that we would have had a lot more pens against us that's for sure. Far too often he was always pulling and tugging in the box with warning after warning

Going back to our CB in recent years, he was better than Johnny Evans but I really don't think he has a place at the club with the direction we are going.

 

[mitchmouse]

He's a mistake waiting to happen. He may (or may not) suit the slower Italian football but he's nowhere near as good as Bailly, Maguire or Lindelof. He's closer to Jones in quality than any of those

 

[e.cantona]

Ole tried to get rid, then loaned him to Roma!, keeps Bailly, Jones! and Lindelof. Now people on here want him back? Anyone think Smalling actually wants to come back, and play, any more then Ole wants him back, to play? Get rid!

 

[Adisa]

We need to move on.

 

[Davicho]

He didnt do anything wrong. But fans dont understand defending.

Also he was playing next to Jones who has made a lot of individual errors and Smalling had some guilt by association. People lump them together. Why? I dont know. Both English?

Fans did not send him on loan. He is an average defender with a horrendous passing. He didn't do anything wrong? Thats delusional.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Last season PL matches: Smalling 24 starts goals conceded 37. Without him 14 games 17 goals conceded

2017/8 PL season: Smalling 28 starts 24 goals conceded. Without him 10 games 4 goals conceded

2016/7 PL season: Smalling 13 starts 16 goals conceded. Without him (including a few late sub appearances) 25 games 13 goals conceded

2015/6 PL season: hard to do a comparison because Smalling started 35 matches 31 goals conceded. In this season we conceded fewer per game when he started. We conceded 4 goals in the 3 games he missed.

2014/5 PL season: Smalling 21 starts 23 goals conceded while he was on the pitch (a few games in which he got injured early on or came on as early sub). Without him 13 games 10 goals conceded. 4 goals conceded while he wasn't on the pitch but did appear at some stage, approx equivalent to 4 full matches

2013/4 PL season: another confused picture as Smalling played right back 50% of the time. Anyway, we conceded 25 goals with him on the pitch in about 21 games (plus a little bit). 18 conceded when he was missing, approx 17 games (slightly less).

19/20 (link)
+ Smalling = 43 goals conceded in 36 games
- Smalling = 13 goals conceded in 12 games

GC/games	13/14	14/15	15/16	16/17	17/18	18/19	19/20
+ Smalling	1.19	1.09	0.89	1.23	0.86	1.54	1.19
- Smalling	1.05	0.77	1.33	0.52	0.4	1.2	1.08

Interesting stats.

It does seem to point out teams tend to concede more goals consistently when Smalling starting and playing than without.

Season 15/16 is the only season where the team is better defensively with Smalling than without. The season with Smalling-Blind and two defensive CDMs. Smalling also had his best season beast-mode. Blind and the midfielders cover his poor on-the-ball abilities and haphazard positioning while he cover their poorer abilities on defending. Basically we play to his and Blind's strengths.

Vs City, Pool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester and the European powerhouses

	14/15	15/16	16/17	17/18	18/19
+ Smalling	15/11 = 1.36	13/13 = 1	10/8 = 1.25	17/14 = 1.2	21/13 = 1.6
- Smalling	1/2 = 0.5	2/1 = 2	5/8 = 0.63	0/1 = 0	8/7 = 1.14

This is also interesting, but we can only use two seasons for good samples comparison.

Generally we're so much better defensively when he's not playing.
15/16 is an anomaly.

Thing is, when Smalling play, the players at the back tend to feel unsettle, not comfortable at all. No composure nor calmness so there's no structure and mistakes are bound to happen more. He is too limited and a bag of nerve when we're on the ball, he doesn't know what to do with the ball usually.

 

[arnie_ni]

He has given 4 penalties this season which is shocking (the entire United has given 3). No idea if they were VAR related, but VAR doesn’t need to give anything if the referee has already given it.

They were all habdball apparently . Nothing to do with the shirt pulling myth

 

[adexkola]

I can't believe in 2020 I have to ask would Smalling get in City's team? Liverpool? Chelsea?

Of course he wouldn't. Nevermind thinking of the top teams we might face in the Champions League.

It's idiotic for anyone to state that players of his ilk are what United need.

Ole has been great at clearing out the dead wood, the most important task he had. Bottling it now and letting failed players back is a ridiculous idea.

Wake up.

That's not a good question... A lot of players we have fail that criteria

 

[KennyBurner]

Passing is very important in this era of modern football. Every single team at the top employs players that are better than average at it. If he can’t pass he can’t expect to be a first team player which is what he desires. We need to let him go and move on.

 

[Fussball13251]

I can't believe in 2020 I have to ask would Smalling get in City's team? Liverpool? Chelsea?

Of course he wouldn't. Nevermind thinking of the top teams we might face in the Champions League.

It's idiotic for anyone to state that players of his ilk are what United need.

Ole has been great at clearing out the dead wood, the most important task he had. Bottling it now and letting failed players back is a ridiculous idea.

Wake up.

Centerback pairing alongside Virgil van Dijk? I think he would. He wasn't as trash as people made him out to be. I rated him. Far better than Lindelöf.

 

[Raven]

If he's willing to be a rotational player, I'd have him back in a heart beat.

 

[Halftrack]

He didnt do anything wrong. But fans dont understand defending.

Also he was playing next to Jones who has made a lot of individual errors and Smalling had some guilt by association. People lump them together. Why? I dont know. Both English?

Rich, coming from a guy who doesn't know what a clearance is, and is incapable of making an argument without citing WhoScored stats.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

No chance he’s better than Lindelöf, some serious delusion in here. That being said I would have him as third/fourth choice but then I’d still prioritise a new CB.

 

[Toad]

The shirt grabbing is just horrific. He would give too many penalties away.

 

[arnie_ni]

I can't believe in 2020 I have to ask would Smalling get in City's team? Liverpool? Chelsea?

Of course he wouldn't. Nevermind thinking of the top teams we might face in the Champions League.

It's idiotic for anyone to state that players of his ilk are what United need.

Ole has been great at clearing out the dead wood, the most important task he had. Bottling it now and letting failed players back is a ridiculous idea.

Wake up.

He'd get into city and Chelsea easily imo.

Hes better than otamendi and whoever Chelsea throw out.

Doesn't mean theyd be content with him however