Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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MoskvaRed

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They were champions. Klopp and Pep are the top in the modern era.

Send either to Barca and Barca would quickly be back to being the best in Eueope.

Wenger is too old.

Edit:
Yes he would, but Klopp and Pep are exceptional like him and so it wouldn't be as easy. Pep and Klopp are on the same Level as Alex Ferguson. Ferguson and Pep would quickly have Liverpool winning the league, too.

Let Ferguson, Klopp and Pep manage West Ham and they would be challenging for league titles within about 5/6 years.

There's the the average, there's the good, and there's the elite.
Why compare managers from different eras? Fergie was “relevant” fron the early 80s to the early 2010s. Over 30 years. I doubt any manager will match that record of consistent achievement.. 10 years ago, Mourinho was the benchmark. Now he.looks ready for China. 20 years ago it was Wenger etc...

Pep”s failures In Europe at Bayern (while having the advantage of a Scottish-style one team league) and then at oil-rich City suggest he can’t win the biggest prize without Messi. Klopp is closer to Fergie in style and substance but who knows whether he’ll still be going in 20 years (and whether he even wants to).
 

GailSpaceWynand

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I think comparisons with other random managers was never appropriate and I found it quite annoying earlier in the season. Especially when it was used purely to highlight Ole's deficiencies.

But now Ole needs to win the title, so we do have to compare him with the best, that's how it goes. For instance, Pep at City came 2nd but still had a poor PL campaign. Why? Because he didn't win, and Klopp was better than him. That's how it is at the top.

So I think comparing with Lampard and Arteta isn't our ambition anymore, because who cares if Arsenal or Chelsea eventually flounder with rookie managers. We have to compare with the best, as that's ultimately where we want to be.
I agree with the first bit. My answer was in response to the poster stating Arteta had a good season and ole didn't which is hogwash.

Ole needs to win the title surely. That's the ambition of United going forward. Comparing to Pep/Klopp who've set the standard over the past few years is a tad premature. We need to give time to Ole to set his team which happened with both Klopp/Pep - iirc both finished top 4 in their 1st full seasons after which they strengthened at key positions which made them contenders in the next.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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They were champions. Klopp and Pep are the top in the modern era.

Send either to Barca and Barca would quickly be back to being the best in Eueope.

Wenger is too old.

Edit:
Yes he would, but Klopp and Pep are exceptional like him and so it wouldn't be as easy. Pep and Klopp are on the same Level as Alex Ferguson. Ferguson and Pep would quickly have Liverpool winning the league, too.

Let Ferguson, Klopp and Pep manage West Ham and they would be challenging for league titles within about 5/6 years.

There's the the average, there's the good, and there's the elite.
I disagree with the bolded bit. As another just said - avg squad stats at the top for 3-4 years after which they need to rebuild. To win titles without having the best personnels / conditions is what made SAF the best (and longevity) Maybe they will someday be able to match SAF but there is no guarantee.

Mou was the benchmark. Wenger too. Where are they now? To have sustained success over decades is not easy. Even klopp/pep require time to build their teams. SAF could compete with a decent squad unlike these 2 (maybe Klopp can but let's see)
 

pablo__p

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Other than better position in the league we didn't make much progress imo.

We can't play from the back. It's oftentimes comical how bad we look playing from the back.
We can't press as a unit. We don't seem to be getting even remotely better at systemic pressing.
Game management has been at best dubious.
Motivation-wise I didn't see players willing to die for CL in the last games of the season or capitalize on whenever our top4 competitors lost points.

The improvement we've seen is IMO more thanks to Bruno rather than Ole's management.
 

RedSky

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No improvement from last season?

Last season:
54 goals conceded
7 clean sheets

This season:
36 goals conceded
13 clean sheets

We got 11 clean sheets in our last 19 games. Our defense has improved significantly from last season, we're on a 14 league game unbeaten run after just completing a 19 game unbeaten run in all comps. Some of you make out Ole is like Homer Simpson pressing random buttons at the Nucleur Power Plant. As for Arsenal, they finished 14 points worse off than last season, anyone thinking Arteta has had a good season needs a head check. They've had a poor season being masked by a good FA Cup win.
 

tomaldinho1

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There was way less money for the weaker sides back then. Why would they be stronger in a sport that has evolved since then too? Watching the few games I have the quality also look clearly worse back then. I am talking CL games and
I doubt there is not a gap difference for the weaker sides too.
The weaker sides now can keep their players better and also sign quality from other leagues. Maybe sides are a bit more attacking now though and thus leaves themselfes more exposed for the bigger sides?
Still most side play vs City and try to defend very deep.
Are they weaker comparatively though, this is what you're missing when you compare two completely different eras. I'd argue the PL has been at it's most uncompetitive for a few years now - proven by the dramatic increase in points totals & goals scored by the relative top teams. If you were to analyze the points gap between the bottom & top of the table, it was 49 points in 1999 whereas this season it's a staggering 78... you can do the same with the gap between the top 4, top 6 or whatever, I think you'll find a trend in the last few years where teams like Liverpool and City simply don't have enough genuine competition and therefore run away with huge points totals or you get teams like Leicester winning the league.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Are they weaker comparatively though, this is what you're missing when you compare two completely different eras. I'd argue the PL has been at it's most uncompetitive for a few years now - proven by the dramatic increase in points totals & goals scored by the relative top teams. If you were to analyze the points gap between the bottom & top of the table, it was 49 points in 1999 whereas this season it's a staggering 78... you can do the same with the gap between the top 4, top 6 or whatever, I think you'll find a trend in the last few years where teams like Liverpool and City simply don't have enough genuine competition and therefore run away with huge points totals or you get teams like Leicester winning the league.
The top sides have got better at tactically beating the weaker teams I guess. Or the defending from the weaker sides is worse as a collective to park the bus. Since I do think the quality in attack is way higher for the weaker sides today.
I think Leicester show the quality of the weaker sides being higher today. They still had quality player in that team and also functioned well as a unit.
 

tomaldinho1

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The top sides have got better at tactically beating the weaker teams I guess. Or the defending from the weaker sides is worse as a collective to park the bus. Since I do think the quality in attack is way higher for the weaker sides today.
I think Leicester show the quality of the weaker sides being higher today. They still had quality player in that team and also functioned well as a unit.
But that goes against the evidence I'm giving you. More goals, more points, a bigger gap - it all points towards the league being less competitive now. It's not that top sides have got better at beating the weaker teams, it's simply that there are less top sides and more weaker teams. Using Leicester as an example disproves your own point, the fact that a 'weaker' team managed to win the PL is additional proof that the PL overall was weaker, the fact their title win precedes multiple years where you have multiple PL winners all breaking points total records is about as conclusive as you can get.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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But that goes against the evidence I'm giving you. More goals, more points, a bigger gap - it all points towards the league being less competitive now. It's not that top sides have got better at beating the weaker teams, it's simply that there are less top sides and more weaker teams. Using Leicester as an example disproves your own point, the fact that a 'weaker' team managed to win the PL is additional proof that the PL overall was weaker, the fact their title win precedes multiple years where you have multiple PL winners all breaking points total records is about as conclusive as you can get.
The gap at top 4 is not bigger though. It is just that you got insanly good sides.
Leicester did show that the weaker sides had quality though to win it. Although the expected top sides had a poor year that season.
Mourinho imploded etc and LVG was a big failure for us.
For many years we had Moyes fighting for top 4 with Everton. Now he is fighting for relegation with West Ham. Just shows how old midtable sides would compete near the bottom now.
 

Loon

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He attained the CL target set out for him. He might still win a trophy. He has to get another season. If he can bring in more quality like Fernandes, he might have a season of real promise.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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Other than better position in the league we didn't make much progress imo.

We can't play from the back. It's oftentimes comical how bad we look playing from the back.
We can't press as a unit. We don't seem to be getting even remotely better at systemic pressing.
Game management has been at best dubious.
Motivation-wise I didn't see players willing to die for CL in the last games of the season or capitalize on whenever our top4 competitors lost points.

The improvement we've seen is IMO more thanks to Bruno rather than Ole's management.
Shambolic post to say the least. 11 years and not promoted? God, you must be a troll/WUM. Or a fan of a rival.
 

Hernandez - BFA

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
 

MalcolmTucker

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
Yes it's been done to death in this thread.

The two main arguments against it, other than the fact that there are too many variables to really compare points totals with 7 years in between are;

Moyes took over runaway champions, Ole took over a team in 6th.

Points totals across seasons isn't a great barometer on quality; if it was, that would mean our 2nd place finish with Mourinho (81pts) was a better season than our treble league finish (79pts). Also means the Spurs team that came 2nd behind Chelsea are comfortably better than the current Man City team.
 

Matriac

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
This has been brought up a million times.

Difference is Moyes took over the Champions. The skill and mentality level of the players at the club back them was totally different to the broken back of a club Solskjær walked into in December 2018.
 

Withnail

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I wanted to start a new thread about this but I won’t just in case it’s been made common knowledge on the forum without be noticing.

We finished this season with 66 points.
Moyes’s season - we finished with 64 points.
We actually won more games with Moyes.

Absolutely mental that. My housemate is sticking to his guns - he does not rate Solskjaer and will not be the guy taking us to a PL win.
Been done to absolute death mate.

Go back about 10 pages.

Basic reposte is Moyes team had just won the league and there are many mitigating factors. Also we came third, Moyes came 7th.
 

Hernandez - BFA

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Yes it's been done to death in this thread.

The two main arguments against it, other than the fact that there are too many variables to really compare points totals with 7 years in between are;

Moyes took over runaway champions, Ole took over a team in 6th.

Points totals across seasons isn't a great barometer on quality; if it was, that would mean our 2nd place finish with Mourinho (81pts) was a better season than our treble league finish (79pts). Also means the Spurs team that came 2nd behind Chelsea are comfortably better than the current Man City team.
This has been brought up a million times.

Difference is Moyes took over the Champions. The skill and mentality level of the players at the club back them was totally different to the broken back of a club Solskjær walked into in December 2018.
Been done to absolute death mate.

Go back about 10 pages.

Basic reposte is Moyes team had just won the league and there are many mitigating factors. Also we came third, Moyes came 7th.
Yeah thought it might. Only brought it up as I saw it for the first time today. Still, given how depressing Moyes' season was - felt strange that we barely beat the points total. I think the last 6 months has made me forgot how bad we started.
 

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I can't get over how well this whole rebuild is going under him. Completely transforming the squad whilst not buying people for the sake of it. Moves like the Ighalo loan are ideal squad management. Doing what is right for the club.
 

FatherWolff

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The earliest transfer window is more than a few months away. We could be in a relegation fight by then.
I think he is too stubborn. You have to play the cards you are dealt with. He is not Pep or Klopp just because he is the manager of Manchester United.
By ignoring good players that were available because he didn't think they are United players, he shot himself in the foot. He should understand that this is 2019 and not 1999 and Sir Alex was the magnet that brought world class players to Manchester United and not just the name of the club.

I ask this question. If you are world class players, would Manchester United be your first choice under Ole, and play in a relegation fight or a mid table fight when you can play for City or Liverpool in the PL or Real and Barca or even Athletico in the La Liga, Juventus, Milan in Serie A, PSG in the French Ligue, Bayern and Dortmund in the Bundesliga?
Was reading through some early posts in this thread. Honestly, I’ve not been this excited since SAF. We are building a winning team, and Woody biting the bullet release Sánchez for free. Step two of the rebuild is way on its way! I’ve asked this before. Have any of you sat down talking football with a uefa pro coach? I have. I felt like an idiot. Have some faith!
 

Tony247

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Yeah thought it might. Only brought it up as I saw it for the first time today. Still, given how depressing Moyes' season was - felt strange that we barely beat the points total. I think the last 6 months has made me forgot how bad we started.
Moyes was a wrong man at wrong time. Club brought a steady state manager in Moyes when SAF retirement was the perfect time to rebuild the squad. It should have been Jose as he had experience of doing very similar and also he values mix of experience and new blood. 2 years with Jose would have steadied the club from the shock of sudden SAF retirement. Instead Moyes was given a huge task of rebuilding a club of size United which was way above his paygrade.

Some here underestimate the mammoth complexity in rebuilding this big club when we are not backed by oil money. You cannot buy 10 players and pick and choose whoever succeed and write off the rest. One expensive wrong recruitement and we have sanchez size problem to solve. It takes time for clubs like United and Liverpool, with a mindset like Klopp. Ole is going through the same path. Even though pool and united are comparatively rich clubs in Europe, both need shrewed and astute transfer strategy.

So far I am quite satisfied the way Ole is rebuilding. I know this is manchester united and we must demand trophies every year. But this time we need to be little more patient. We have screwed this for 6 years....no more.
 

Champ

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Again no feckin game plan against fecking FC Copenhagen :houllier:
What??
We've dominated the second half bar a few minutes.
We've hit the post multiple times, had two goals ruled out for offside, they haven't had a shot on target yet...
No game plan indeed....
 

Adisa

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Its not really about a game plan. No matter how positive I try to be, I don't think he's good enough.
I am no football expert but I look at Pep and Klopp. Even on an off day with a much changed side, you can see they have a certain level. We took often look like a side that has just met for a kick about.
I can't shake the feeling that no matter who we sign, we will never really challenge under this guy.
 

90 + 5min

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Its not really about a game plan. No matter how positive I try to be, I don't think he's good enough.
I am no football experience but I look at Pep and Klopp. Even on an off day with a much changed side, you can see they have a certain level. We took often look like a side that has just met for a kick about.
I can't shake the feeling that no matter who we sign, we will never really challenge under this guy.
Where were you first 4 years Liverpool had Klopp? Or Guardiola first season?
 

AshRK

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Don't like commenting in between of the game but his lack of trust towards squad players is appalling.
 

Champ

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Why should that even be mentioned?
Because it highlights attacking play,
It highlights a plan.
The Greenwood goal ruled out came from a high press from multiple players, simultaneously, highlighting a coached trigger to press, also known as a game plan.
 

Adisa

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Where were you first 4 years Liverpool had Klopp? Or Guardiola first season?
I am not talking about results. I am talking about the teams general play. Even with much changed sides those teams look tactically way ahead of us.
 

Skills

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Because it highlights attacking play,
It highlights a plan.
The Greenwood goal ruled out came from a high press from multiple players, simultaneously, highlighting a coached trigger to press, also known as a game plan.
:lol:

You guys can convince yourself of anything. Ole Solskjaer can take a turd in centre circle, pick it up and feed you guys out of his hand. And you guys would genuinely lap it up. It's incredible.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Because it highlights attacking play,
It highlights a plan.
The Greenwood goal ruled out came from a high press from multiple players, simultaneously, highlighting a coached trigger to press, also known as a game plan.
A goal ruled offside doesn't necessarily mean attacking play. Anyway its all ifs and buts. We arent winning and we should be against such a team, so it just sounds like excuses.
 
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