Frank Lampard | Former Chelsea manager

[Feed Me]

Yes so somehow this means Chelsea's new manager doesn't deserve credit for bringing those two through and putting them in situations to succeed? Genuinely I can't understand this disconnect.

He literally had no fecking choice Fair play to the players taking the opportunity though.

By the same token, you seem happy to completely absolve Lampard for the atrocious 79 goals conceded, apparently because it’s all Kepa’s fault.

Lampard gets credit for the successes but a free ride for the failures. A better cos h would have made you more stable based on your personnel.

 

[sugar_kane]

What seems to be overlooked in any Ole vs Frank comparison is the difference in pressure and expectations on the two managers.

For Lampard this season was effectively seen as a free pass due to the transfer ban and it being his first season at Chelsea and in the PL. Him being a young, English manager with lots of in the media didn’t hurt either.

For Ole he started the season well out of the honeymoon period, coming into a new season with the bare minimum expectation of top 4.

He had many questioning him (media and United fans alike) going into the season due to how last season finished, selling Lukaku with no replacement and spending big on Maguire/AWB. Big question marks over Pogba’s future going into the season also didn’t help.

Every time we dropped points he had the media and a good chunk of our own fans clamouring to get him sacked, and any time we did do well it would be about Bruno or how much we spent in the summer. With Frank it seemed to always be a case of “oh he’s new/transfer ban/sold Hazard” therefore he’s still doing great given the circumstances.

Also it’s the United job - there’s just much more spotlight on the manager than at Chelsea.

To come out on top league wise with all that added pressure means for me Ole’s done the better job this season.

 

[Feed Me]

I think he’s had a poor year; I can see why people think he’s done well though.

However how do Chelsea fans feel about him munching on Pepperamis every game? I’m absolutely amazed more isn’t made of it. I’d be livid if we were losing to Bayern and Ole was sitting there eating a red hot flavoured Pepperami around 65 minutes every game. Just fecking wait till full time.

He’s not actually doing this... is he?

 

[Feed Me]

Yeah, its a silly thing when its going for you and annoying when its against like most things really.

The point is that media coverage pretty much always goes against United which becomes quite tiresome eventually.

 

[Feed Me]

Eh, for me the goalkeeper position is almost unique insofar as the actions are pretty straightforward and uncomplicated by potential network effects (especially when it comes to shot stopping). I don't think anything that Lampard has implemented has caused Kepa's save percentage to drop to the lowest in the history of the PL - there are fundamental mechanical flaws with the way Kepa plays the position that are a far bigger issue (e.g. he swings his arms behind his torso prior to diving - this delays the dive and ensures that his arms aren't properly extended and locked into position).

If you're at all interested in some of Kepa's foibles, here is a very good piece: https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2020/5/14/21257561/solving-chelseas-kepa-conundrum-part-1

You keep posting this. Are you laying all defensive blame at Kepa’s door? Do you feel that your defensive organisation is otherwise good enough? This is the type of free pass nonsense I’m talking about with Lampard.

 

[Feed Me]

Is that a thing clubs have? A specialist defence coach?

I can't remember Chelsea ever having one.

Perhaps not someone dedicated to defensive coaching, but Lampard’s porous records are Derby and Chelsea suggests that he is missing something in the back room set up. Lampard strikes me as a manager who has prioritised the on ball, attacking aspects of setting up a team whereas I would always expect you start from the foundations of a team, because defensive issues undermine everything you do going forward if not resolved.

 

[Champ]

Sorry, are you trying to suggest that trophies at Molde are predictive of success at one of the top clubs in the world? Because if so, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

No, I think you just suggested that yourself,

I was merely highlighting that Ole has had a better season than Lampard,
With the signings Chelsea have made so far I'd expect Lampard will be out of a job if he has a similar season to this.

 

[GifLord]

Yes so somehow this means Chelsea's new manager doesn't deserve credit for bringing those two through and putting them in situations to succeed? Genuinely I can't understand this disconnect.

All those young players already had a lot of game experience playing regularly in the Championship the previous season.
Tomori - 44 games
Mount - 35 (8goals)
Abraham - 37(25goals)
James - 45(3goals)

Look at what Ole had at his disposal and what Lampard had at the start of the season

Spoiler

At the beginning Ole got shat on by the media and most of the fans on here for not replacing Lukaku when things weren't going well - the midfield who couldn't create chances to save their lives had nothing to do with it right? Gave chance to Mason Greenwood who was a big revelation and put his trust on Martial and Rashford to score goals. The media have barely praised him for that.
Sarri finished 3rd last season with the same team minus Luiz and Hazard and won the Europa League while Lampard this season got embarrassed in the Champions League - they were lucky to advance from GS - conceded 16 goals in 8 games
Barely finished in Top 4 and got nominated for the Manager of the season
The English bias is strong
Even Keane talked about it back in January - how the media ignores Lampard while going full ape shit on Ole
Starts @ 5min

 

[Dancfc]

He literally had no fecking choice

He had the option to extend Higuain's loan instead of bringing Tammy in.

Instead of promoting Mount he could have played Barkley there, stuck with the Jorgi/Kova/Kante midfield three Sarri did or even used a double pivot with Pedro/Pulisic/Willian as the three behind the striker.

"No choice"

 

[hmchan]

Lampard over performed in the league and getting to a cup final this year, couldn't expect to finish above Spurs, Arsenal or Utd, let alone City and Liverpool.

What concerns me is that he's too arrogant to notice his own tactical failings, so we've seen Kepa blamed instead. Defensive basics, structure, team setup are wrong.

Need a coach to help him with it, if he'll accept it. I don't see a new GK and LB making that much difference, we'll still ship 50 odd goals in the league, though we might score 10 to 20 more with new attacking signings.

Lampard is not a manager who is particularly good at coaching defence and I don't think he will suddenly become one even with a defensive coach. The only thing that he could do is to (1) ensure the team outscoring the opponents and (2) bring in really good defenders, like Klopp and Guardiola do with their team.

Your team did fairly well in the first bit, especially in the first half of the season when Kante was not in the team. The second part is the hard bit though as you let the only proper defender leave in the summer and those left are not really capable of defending. It's not just the GK and LB.

To me Lampard hasn't been arrogant enough in his decision. He should have stuck to the fluid side playing attacking football instead of letting Kante walk straight back into the team. The frequent switches between back 3 and back 4 don't do him any favor as well.

 

[Feed Me]

He had the option to extend Higuain's loan instead of bringing Tammy in.

Instead of promoting Mount he could have played Barkley there, stuck with the Jorgi/Kova/Kante midfield three Sarri did or even used a double pivot with Pedro/Pulisic/Willian as the three behind the striker.

"No choice"

I think releasing Higuain was a no brainer tbh. Anyone with sense could see that he was well past his best and he did nothing at note at Chelsea to justify retaining him. Fair play to Lampard for having the balls promote youth and not take the ‘easy’ option, a bit like Ole with our front lads this season.

In respect of the likes of Barkley and Pedro, again, they’re average players at this stage, so it was totally understandable that Lampard didn’t rely on them. Lampard was with Mount last season, so he knew what he was all about, especially his ability to trigger the press.

I’m really not sure what the overall thrust of your point is though. If anything, you’ve just underscored my point that Chelsea, irrespective of the transfer ban, had an absolutely stacked squad to select from.

You’ve just reeled off nine international class midfield / forward players, yet there are people affiliated with Chelsea who plead poverty due to the transfer ban.

Lampard has had plenty to work with. In attack, he has made a good fist of it. Defensively, it has been a shambles. 6/10 – needs to do better next season, not amongst the top four managers in the league.

 

[Dancfc]

To me Lampard hasn't been arrogant enough in his decision. He should have stuck to the fluid side playing attacking football instead of letting Kante walk straight back into the team. The frequent switches between back 3 and back 4 don't do him any favor as well.

I don't actually mind that switch for a one off game, it can work against certain opponents, you guys, Wolves and Spurs for example.

Lampard's issue is he then uses it again after it worked in a certain situation, using it at home to Southampton (after it worked so well Vs Spurs) with Emerson and Azpi playing wingbacks was a particularly bonkers decision.

 

[Dancfc]

I think releasing Higuain was a no brainer tbh. Anyone with sense could see that he was well past his best and he did nothing at note at Chelsea to justify retaining him. Fair play to Lampard for having the balls promote youth and not take the ‘easy’ option, a bit like Ole with our front lads this season.

He is, but there's many managers (including Lampard's predecessor) that would have favoured Gonzo's experience.

I’m really not sure what the overall thrust of your point is though. If anything, you’ve just underscored my point that Chelsea, irrespective of the transfer ban, had an absolutely stacked squad to select from.

The point I'm making is you made out (in your response to MFB at the top of the page) he had no choice but to promote Tammy and Mason, he had many options if he didn't think they were up to it or he didn't want to bring them through, especially in Mount's case.

 

[hmchan]

I don't actually mind that switch for a one off game, it can work against certain opponents, you guys, Wolves and Spurs for example.

Lampard's issue is he then uses it again after it worked in a certain situation, using it at home to Southampton (after it worked so well Vs Spurs) with Emerson and Azpi playing wingbacks was a particularly bonkers decision.

This is what I mean.

 

[Feed Me]

He is, but there's many managers (including Lampard's predecessor) that would have favoured Gonzo's experience.


The point I'm making is you made out (in your response to MFB at the top of the page) he had no choice but to promote Tammy and Mason, he had many options if he didn't think they were up to it or he didn't want to bring them through, especially in Mount's case.

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. And, again, he deserves credit for going down the route of picking the younger lads. The cynic in me would say that this was good for Lampard personally though, because it had the impact of reducing expectations and also young players tend to fall into line more, which is what a new manager needs to control a dressing room.

My overarching point is that Lampard had stacks of choices coming into the role and so the idea of the transfer ban being restrictive rings a bit hollow for me.

Anyway, I’m done with this argument now. To summarise one final time, he’s had an okay season, achieved the minimum you would expect of a Chelsea manager and has many things to improve. No way in hell is he amongst the top four PL managers this season.

 

[duffer]

Anyway, I’m done with this argument now.

You'll be back!

 

[Feed Me]

You'll be back!

True!

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

You keep posting this. Are you laying all defensive blame at Kepa’s door? Do you feel that your defensive organisation is otherwise good enough? This is the type of free pass nonsense I’m talking about with Lampard.

I'm laying the vast majority of the defensive blame at Kepa's door. By expected goals we were a better defense than Liverpool.

I think we clearly need to work on our set piece defense and our defense in transition. But overall I don't think there's much else Lampard could do as structurally we were solid. 3rd most pressures this year despite having 3rd highest possession suggests we were generally good overall.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

All those young players already had a lot of game experience playing regularly in the Championship the previous season.
Tomori - 44 games
Mount - 35 (8goals)
Abraham - 37(25goals)
James - 45(3goals)

Look at what Ole had at his disposal and what Lampard had at the start of the season

Spoiler

At the beginning Ole got shat on by the media and most of the fans on here for not replacing Lukaku when things weren't going well - the midfield who couldn't create chances to save their lives had nothing to do with it right? Gave chance to Mason Greenwood who was a big revelation and put his trust on Martial and Rashford to score goals. The media have barely praised him for that.
Sarri finished 3rd last season with the same team minus Luiz and Hazard and won the Europa League while Lampard this season got embarrassed in the Champions League - they were lucky to advance from GS - conceded 16 goals in 8 games
Barely finished in Top 4 and got nominated for the Manager of the season
The English bias is strong
Even Keane talked about it back in January - how the media ignores Lampard while going full ape shit on Ole
Starts @ 5min

Right, that well-known bastion of objectivity Roy Keane

Also, arguing that these very young players had experience in the championship like that's somehow a knock on Lampard is absurd. You do realise that most players don't do as well when moving up to the first tier, right? Especially when they're very young - it's a credit to Lampard that they've all been successful this year.

 

[anant]

I've always felt that blaming Kepa is an easy way out. While he has been under par and a better keeper would definitely help you, the number of times he stands exposed in a situation favourable to the attacker doesn't help his cause as well. You guys play with too high a defensive line and your defenders lack the recovery pace to get back into position in case of a counter attack.
What ends up happening is a situation very similar to what happened to Pool in the 2nd half of the EL final against Sevilla a few years ago.
Lampard has done some decent things, I'm not going to say otherwise, but it seems that everyone is crediting Lampard with all your successes, but giving excuses on his behalf for his failures.

 

[hmchan]

Right, that well-known bastion of objectivity Roy Keane

Also, arguing that these very young players had experience in the championship like that's somehow a knock on Lampard is absurd. You do realise that most players don't do as well when moving up to the first tier, right? Especially when they're very young - it's a credit to Lampard that they've all been successful this year.

Funny because when Henderson won the Golden Glove and Player of the Year last year, people thought Championship was irrelevant and refused to look at his performance properly. They said he had to be loaned out for a few more seasons to prove himself (some still think that way). Suddenly appearances in the Championship now become proofs that they are good players.

 

[cyberman]

All those young players already had a lot of game experience playing regularly in the Championship the previous season.
Tomori - 44 games
Mount - 35 (8goals)
Abraham - 37(25goals)
James - 45(3goals)

Look at what Ole had at his disposal and what Lampard had at the start of the season

Spoiler

At the beginning Ole got shat on by the media and most of the fans on here for not replacing Lukaku when things weren't going well - the midfield who couldn't create chances to save their lives had nothing to do with it right? Gave chance to Mason Greenwood who was a big revelation and put his trust on Martial and Rashford to score goals. The media have barely praised him for that.
Sarri finished 3rd last season with the same team minus Luiz and Hazard and won the Europa League while Lampard this season got embarrassed in the Champions League - they were lucky to advance from GS - conceded 16 goals in 8 games
Barely finished in Top 4 and got nominated for the Manager of the season
The English bias is strong
Even Keane talked about it back in January - how the media ignores Lampard while going full ape shit on Ole
Starts @ 5min

This really annoys me. Jamie isnt even listening to Keanes points, he is just trying to win an argument.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Biggest mistake he's made so far is not giving Lucas Piazon his chance. He may have been overlooked by 100 Chelsea managers but this lad is gona be a star for Chelsea. Has his testimonial in 2 years too which should be a sell out.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Biggest mistake he's made so far is not giving Lucas Piazon his chance. He may have been overlooked by 100 Chelsea managers but this lad is gona be a star for Chelsea. Has his testimonial in 2 years too which should be a sell out.

Got a genuine chuckle out of me

Funny because when Henderson won the Golden Glove and Player of the Year last year, people thought Championship was irrelevant and refused to look at his performance properly. They said he had to be loaned out for a few more seasons to prove himself (some still think that way). Suddenly appearances in the Championship now become proofs that they are good players.

Agreed. For me it's somewhere in between - the Championship is fundamentally a different league and arguing that performances there directly translate either way is silly.

 

[alexthelion]

How many goals conceded next season will it take for you to think he's done a good job regarding our defence? Genuine question.

Below 40. Any team aiming for the top should not be conceding anywhere near as many as you did this season. It was just luck you got away with it this time.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Ole has trophies under his belt as a manager's with a few years of experience, Lampard has none.
Lampard managed to finish below Ole in the league from a commanding position, Lampard has a clear run at Chelsea, Ole does not at United.

No, I think you just suggested that yourself,

I was merely highlighting that Ole has had a better season than Lampard,
With the signings Chelsea have made so far I'd expect Lampard will be out of a job if he has a similar season to this.

Think you'll find that you suggested it first, mate.

 

[jymufc20]

Not sure if it has been discussed yet but how the hell has he been nominated for manager of the season ?

 

[PeteManic]

If he wasn't English or an old boy, he'd be vilified by the London press and be out.

 

[Ramshock]

Lampard is not that good imo

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Not sure if it has been discussed yet but how the hell has he been nominated for manager of the season ?

First I'm hearing of it, tbh

 

[jymufc20]

First I'm hearing of it, tbh

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1744530

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

No, I think you just suggested that yourself,

I was merely highlighting that Ole has had a better season than Lampard,
With the signings Chelsea have made so far I'd expect Lampard will be out of a job if he has a similar season to this.

United spent 200m on their team and finish on level points with a transfer banned team and a rookie manager. Ole is still in a job.
I agree Roman probably has more ambition and would readily pull the plug if he feels expectations are not being met. I obviously hope not and he's given the time to build the team from back to front.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1744530

Sorry mate not trying to be a dickhead or anything but the past few pages have focused on this news. Can't really blame you for not wanting to wade through it though!

 

[Dancfc]

For all this talk of "Ole getting pelters by the press and Lampard getting a free ride".

Wasn't it more the first half of this season Ole was getting critisized when he had United flirting with the bottom half? If Lampard has us down there after a transfer window he'd get shit for it and rightly so. I haven't really seen much critisism of him since January, although I was abroad pre Corona kicking off and taking little interest in anything outside Chelsea while I was so maybe I'm wrong.

Secondly wasn't Ole also given a pretty good ride of things in terms of media attention before his first transfer window? He had a pundit try and pressure the United board into signing him full time fgs.

 

[jymufc20]

Sorry mate not trying to be a dickhead or anything but the past few pages have focused on this news. Can't really blame you for not wanting to wade through it though!

Yeah I should of looked to be fair, but I just couldn't be arsed, my apologies.

I genuinely thought you hadn't heard any of it.

 

[Champ]

Think you'll find that you suggested it first, mate.

ok then, if it makes you feel better...

 

[Champ]

United spent 200m on their team and finish on level points with a transfer banned team and a rookie manager. Ole is still in a job.
I agree Roman probably has more ambition and would readily pull the plug if he feels expectations are not being met. I obviously hope not and he's given the time to build the team from back to front.

Ole finished ahead of Chelsea.
A Chelsea side which finished three places above United the season before.
I'd say Lampard has had a decent season, nothing more, but as I say, no trophy next season for Lamps and I expect him to be out.

 

[cyberman]

United spent 200m on their team and finish on level points with a transfer banned team and a rookie manager. Ole is still in a job.
I agree Roman probably has more ambition and would readily pull the plug if he feels expectations are not being met. I obviously hope not and he's given the time to build the team from back to front.

Finished above Chelsea you mean..

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Yeah I should of looked to be fair, but I just couldn't be arsed, my apologies.

I genuinely thought you hadn't heard any of it.

No worries!

ok then, if it makes you feel better...

Genuinely confused as to why you think trophies with Molde are relevant? Obviously Ole got the job given his status as a former player for you; don't think there are many elite clubs who'd consider a manager with no experience outside of Norway all else being equal.

 

[Champ]

No worries!



Genuinely confused as to why you think trophies with Molde are relevant? Obviously Ole got the job given his status as a former player for you; don't think there are many elite clubs who'd consider a manager with no experience outside of Norway all else being equal.

Sorry, forgot that only trophies won in England count.
Do you think Ole would have got the job had he NOT been successful at Molde?