Well the Sancho deal is dead so why not ?
Ravel Morrison | Derby player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The talk was he was cutting about town in motors where people had guns in them.
Others might know more detail as I can’t speak to his past. I do recall there were separate stories of his ‘associates’.
erm... so.... ah no its okay. Have a nice day, hope you're enjoying your time off school.He didn't do that, he wanted to keep him but the player decided to leave.
Just came across this yesterday:
This has been done a million times and I'm pretty sure there was a previous thread with over 50 pages on this.
So here is my take based on my experience.
1. In terms of pure talent, Ravel Morrison was probably the most talented footballer to come out of our Academy in the last 40 years. Apart from Giggs, no one stood out like he did at that age. He had everything in terms of individual skill, pace, eye for goal and was a great team player. On the pitch he was never a problem for the coaches, teammates or club as a whole. During training he applied himself and kept himself fit. Of that 2011 team he was the standout player.
2. What he had in football nous and skill he severely lacked in emotional intelligence. He had no concept of right or wrong. He came from a fractured home from a young age with some unbelievably horrific situations (seriously). So all this talk about Wythenshawe v somewhere else is irrelevant. He had no structure in his life. So away from the club he basically knocked about with the wrong people and was easily led. As he got into his teenage years it was clear he was a special player and older people in his community (gangs) 'befriended' him and started to manipulate him badly. He was/is incredibly immature with an almost non-existent education.
3. By the time he was 16, 17, 18 he started to have serious problems off the pitch which resulted in the police being involved on numerous occasions and he had a number of court orders against his name. If you search on-line there are loads of details. Witness intimation, assault, carrying weapons.
4. It then started to creep into his behaviour at Carrington and that's when Ferguson and other senior players tried to help. There was a litany of dressing room incidents. He was banned from playing on many occasions until things got sorted. In the end, Ferguson decided he needed to leave.
5. Things started well at West Ham but when the external influences reached him in London he reverted back to his previous behaviour. By then he was living in a huge town with no real friends and nothing to do. From then on he has just drifted from team to team. During trials he impressed managers and coaches due to his talent. But his off the field behaviour becomes unacceptable time after time so he never settles.
6. People can say that 'he threw his career away'. I don't think he even understands what that means. I don't think it's a motivation issue. He probably never had the resilience, mental and emotional capability and environment to help him succeed in the first place.
7. So it's easy to say he wasted his talent...but that makes it sound that he made a logical, rational decision to do whatever he has done. We look at his life from the outside and judge him based on (for the vast majority on here) our values, intelligence and emotional maturity. He never had any of those in the first place. People say he could have/should have made different life choices. I'm not so sure he was intellectually able to do that.
It's a real shame because I would have loved to see him tear up teams in a United shirt for ten years. His talent was unquestionable.
I hope he is able to get help in the right way and when he is clearly too old for football his life doesn't get any worse.
So here is my take based on my experience.
1. In terms of pure talent, Ravel Morrison was probably the most talented footballer to come out of our Academy in the last 40 years. Apart from Giggs, no one stood out like he did at that age. He had everything in terms of individual skill, pace, eye for goal and was a great team player. On the pitch he was never a problem for the coaches, teammates or club as a whole. During training he applied himself and kept himself fit. Of that 2011 team he was the standout player.
2. What he had in football nous and skill he severely lacked in emotional intelligence. He had no concept of right or wrong. He came from a fractured home from a young age with some unbelievably horrific situations (seriously). So all this talk about Wythenshawe v somewhere else is irrelevant. He had no structure in his life. So away from the club he basically knocked about with the wrong people and was easily led. As he got into his teenage years it was clear he was a special player and older people in his community (gangs) 'befriended' him and started to manipulate him badly. He was/is incredibly immature with an almost non-existent education.
3. By the time he was 16, 17, 18 he started to have serious problems off the pitch which resulted in the police being involved on numerous occasions and he had a number of court orders against his name. If you search on-line there are loads of details. Witness intimation, assault, carrying weapons.
4. It then started to creep into his behaviour at Carrington and that's when Ferguson and other senior players tried to help. There was a litany of dressing room incidents. He was banned from playing on many occasions until things got sorted. In the end, Ferguson decided he needed to leave.
5. Things started well at West Ham but when the external influences reached him in London he reverted back to his previous behaviour. By then he was living in a huge town with no real friends and nothing to do. From then on he has just drifted from team to team. During trials he impressed managers and coaches due to his talent. But his off the field behaviour becomes unacceptable time after time so he never settles.
6. People can say that 'he threw his career away'. I don't think he even understands what that means. I don't think it's a motivation issue. He probably never had the resilience, mental and emotional capability and environment to help him succeed in the first place.
7. So it's easy to say he wasted his talent...but that makes it sound that he made a logical, rational decision to do whatever he has done. We look at his life from the outside and judge him based on (for the vast majority on here) our values, intelligence and emotional maturity. He never had any of those in the first place. People say he could have/should have made different life choices. I'm not so sure he was intellectually able to do that.
It's a real shame because I would have loved to see him tear up teams in a United shirt for ten years. His talent was unquestionable.
I hope he is able to get help in the right way and when he is clearly too old for football his life doesn't get any worse.
Giggs wasn't the best of his age group everyone who was there always says Adrian Doherty was the best young player at Utd and ahead of Giggs ,Scholes and co .
Unlike Ravel he had his career ruined by injury and sadly died young . I have sympathy for him but none for Ravel who just wanted to play gangsta
Unlike Ravel he had his career ruined by injury and sadly died young . I have sympathy for him but none for Ravel who just wanted to play gangsta
Quality post. People talking nonsense on here saying that because the particular estate he grew up in might compare favourably with a South American slum that Valencia grew up in means the kid hasn't had a tough route in life. Kids in every walk of life can have horrendous upbringings which can potentially affect them their entire life and leave them devoid of life skills. These upbringings are for obvious reasons far more common in poorer areas. I don't know the details of Ravel's upbringing but a bad upbringing can leave long-term scarring which leaves you ill-equipped for life. The characteristics that people are judging him for have been hard-wired into him before he could even say his name. People overestimate how much free-will we have as humans - many of our paths are decided by genetics and early education.
Also special props to that scumbag Allardyce for trying to shake him down when his career was actually going well and running him out of West Ham because he wouldn't sign with his agent.
Quality post.
Is Allardyce not a product of his upbringing or without free will too? Maybe it's his genetics.
What exactly are you getting at?
I have no idea what that means?
I saw the Valencia articles earlier in the week and wanted to post it here. Valencia is a trooper for this.
This is a superb post. As most of yours are. The key thing talked about here is emotional intelligence. There are numerous studies which show that childhood trauma affect people in different ways. For most it leads to a life of difficulty, behavioural problems, stunted emotional development etc.; however, for some it leads to the opposite response, one which drives extreme resistance to stress, a high degree of emotional intelligence, and a super charged sense of drive. One such study found an unusually high correlation between childhood trauma and top corporate officers.
I say all this, because I wish the people around Ravel had done what really needed to be done in these times, which is get him the counselling he needed from a young age, in order to help him develop the coping mechanisms needed to be successful in life. Football has always been in the stone ages when it comes to the role of emotional development and intelligence, and intervention at a young age could've made a massive difference. I know the club, and senior pros tried to help him, but that is a long way off from getting the qualified help he needed.
It's too late for his career, but it's not too late for him as a person. He is clearly emotionally stunted and immature, and he is going to struggle badly after his playing days are over to cope without the income, and managing his life successfully. Sadly it doesn't seem he has anyone around him that can influence him positively to take the steps necessary. Based on his tweets, it doesn't even seem that he understands he has emotional and mental health issues.
That it's ridiculous to write a paragraph saying we shouldn't judge people too harshly because they may have had a hard upringing, or that they genetically may be prone to feck ups and that people overestimate free will when the next thing you do is to write that someoneone else is a scumbag, not affording them any of those same considerations.
Giggs was the better player at 14/15 but they he and Doherty were on par at 16/17...they had very different styles but Giggs was the best in his age group. Scholes, Beckham and others were all late developers.
Not sure Morrison WANTED to 'play gangsta'....but he got caught up in that environment for sure.
To be fair Simon, he never had a home structure to get qualified help. He often missed school and United didn't see it because he was only coming to play football at thar age and at the Academy he was behaving like everyone else. It was only when he hit his teenage years that the impact became apparent. You can say the system failed him...but I think even the most brilliant system will have certain kids fall through it.
I don't mean to say the system failed him, but I do have a sense of regret that when his issues became apparent, more qualified help wasn't sought for him.
Brilliant and as always, insightful post. I always look out for you posting in here, as I know what you say holds a lot of substance.
I do hope Ravel gets the help and guidance he needs. I also hopes it puts to bed the annual post of Ravel throwing it all away, the stuff with the Police etc being posted, as its very tiresome at this point and I'm sure he himself is tired hearing about it.
It really does demonstrate how hard it is to escape the environment into which you were born into.
It's a very sad story and one I know has been repeated several times over several generations in different sports and different countries.
It's a very sad story and one I know has been repeated several times over several generations in different sports and different countries.
It's just boring now . It makes no difference at all how talented he was as a kid when that's all he has to talk about .
Put him on the pitch with Pogba now and no one would notice him .
Agreed. We know he was talented but his head was really fecked up. Overall he didn’t have what it takes, period. We need to stop obsessing/romantasizing over these types of players, it’s not healthy for younger players coming through
I've tried to say roughly this many times but never as well and with as much accurate detail and insight as this.
Great post. That's exactly how I see it too.
Such a shame it had to happen to the most unique and exciting talent I've seen come through the academy in my lifetime. That's life I guess.
There's definitely nobody romaticising Ravel and what happened to him. Some people myself included have had to contradict some dopes who try to insist he was never a great talent. It's simply false. We might as well be truthful.
But nobody holds him up as an example or romanticises him. He's looked at as a cautionary tale. What happened with him is regrettable and nobody wants to see it repeated.
A complete waster. I Cant believe people are making excuses for him. The guy was given everything needed to become a success but he loved his gang life too much.
Nobody to blame but himself.
Nobody to blame but himself.
Yawn.
You can imagine how he must feel every day when he sees these stories come out about how he wasted his talent.
I hope he doesn't end up topping himself.
I hope he doesn't end up topping himself.
Very well balanced.
Hopefully hes a glass half full kinda guy - hes played top flight football - hes earned (at a guess several million to date) - hes 27 and will probably get another club and another contract somewhere - ok hes not the new gazza in terms of career hight but equally hopefully hes not the new gazza in terms of personal lows as well
Feck me not this again.
Last time this was bumped we had people talking about his potential being up their with Ronaldinho.
absolute boll@x. He’s done nothing, I mean less than Bebe in professional football.
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He can read ?
No need for that really. It’s clear the lad has learning and emotional difficulties. There’s no need to be mean.
He is a thug who preferred playing gangsta to bettering himself .
We all grew up rough . There is no excuse
I think you’re being harsh. Mr mujac nailed it
Should get him back to mentor Mason Greenwood !
On a message board mainly consisting of western countries' speakers that isn't half bold.
I hope you are not implying that only people in "3rd world countries" can have it rough.
And I agree with lsd, we all grew up in particular circumstances and Ravel has no excuses for wasting his talents.
I'm not implying ONLY people in 3rd world or simply poorer countries can have it rough. Common sense tells you it's far more common there, though and, in turn, it's laughable to say 'we all had it rough'. I definitely didn't for one and I didn't even grew up in a rich, western country.
Although expecting common sense is a bit too much these days.
We all had it rough, as "rough", much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Everybody has their own struggles and it's up to them to overcome them.
Yes, running from a war-ravaged country is probably worse than your rich daddy not loving you but the context might be of different inherent and thought strength. People deal with life's curveball to the best of their abilities and most times that's a product of their family and upbringing. Challenges in early life are quite often used by strong characters to harden one's perseverance and better themselves.