The underrating of this lad in here is laughable.
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
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My point is Sancho is not panacea for all the ills of the club - we're in need of a reliable CB, DM, RW and LB. Possibly another striker. That's the reality.
We also seem to have a transfer budget.
So given the need to improve the squad, and transfer budget constraints, do you blow it all on Sancho? Assuming you have the money Dortmund are asking for (which I'm not sure we do), and player's fine with the move... Or do you try and solve other problem areas? Sancho is what, 20 years old? He has a lot of football ahead of him, the club can sign him next year at a more reasonable price.
Other clubs may emerge as competitors, but also other talents may come on to the scene - works both ways.
As for City, feck them - they're hyped to death around your shores, yet the shit the bed anytime they play in Europe. They're an overrated outfit. Their keeper sucks, their CBs suck (fecking Ake and Stones are you kidding me) their LB sucks (Mendy or Zinchenko or whoever the fcuk they play), they have a great mid with KDB - Fernandino - Foden - Sterling - Rodri to be fair. Oh and their striker Jesus sucks. So if you're asking me how many United players would walk into City's, quite a few.
Liverpool are a different matter, they're the best team in England and one of the best in Europe for sure.
Who's being unrealistic now? Liverpool were 8th in Klopp's fist season (that's 4 years ago!) and in a few short years they made 2 CL finals and were 3 inches from back to back titles. Things change quickly in football - and yes, I think most fans underrate current United players. As part of a competent, well-drilled system and with a few additions they'd be challenging for the league.
I don't care about the fee as long as he's what we need.
Completely agree with your first sentence. It looks like lb may be the signing though and that is without a doubt in my mind, the least important reinforcement this window and we wont be able to sign a player for all the positions so its absolutely crazy that appears to be the one we are pushing hardest at the moment.
Disagree on Sancho though, his contract has longer to run than we thought, another big season and the price wont be lower and more clubs will be in for him. Also, more importantly....we may not even be offering him cl football next season, do you think he still comes here then? (not saying that is right or wrong, just a reality with modern footballers). Other players may arrive on the scene, but this is a potential world class young English talent, it is a different kettle of fish.
As for CIty, whether or not they have sucked in Europe, they have dominated along with Liverpool domestically and whether you think some of these players suck.....have ours been better then? There keeper has been very good domestically....ours has gone from one of the best in the world to full of major errors the last two years, there centre backs bar Laporte havent been that good....but we have Lindelof starting every week, the two you mentioned, one of them is new and the other has barely played for the last season.....cherry pickign with those choices as a comparison soemwhat! Our LB has been injured on and off for most of the season, does WIlliams start over those you mention? Jesus is a very talented striker in my opinion....again, cherry picking, Martial starts over Aguero? Again, no guaranteed starter from us for City, zero. Only player who maybe starts would be Fernandes for Liverpool, thats literally it
I haven't read all of the trail and comments. But my answer to the question (thread) is no. Not when you can get a Thiago for 25m. Sancho is a great talent, but we are overpaying (Maguire, Wan Bissaka ...) for players. We need two Centre Halves and we keep going on about Sancho.
I didn't cherrypick the choices, I just looked at who started the game vs Wolves. But regardless, my point is that City don't have a squad filled with world class players in every poisition. City have a great coach who drills his players into a SYSTEM that works for them. Individually they're not that amazing, other than a few genuine world class talents like KDB, Sterling and Aguero.
The same thing with Klopp's Liverpool, he's been a system with average to good players and added a few superstars in between.
How many thought Henderson was a superstar when he was moving from Sunderland?
Or Wijnadlum from Newcastle?
Or Robertson from relegated Hull?
Or Salah (who got discarded from Chelsea and played for Fiorentina and Roma not Inter or Juventus)
Or Mane (who many on the CAF were laughing when LVG expressed an interst in the player)
Or Firmino?
At the time of the move, none of these players were what you call a superstar, none of them moved for astronomical prices, none of them attracted serious interest from other big time clubs. Klopp went to the CL final with those players and missed the League by a couple of inches. Goes to show good players can look world class in the right system.
Our players are good, but they're not playing for Klopp or Guardiola so they look a lot worse than they are...
Of course a generational talent like him worth 120m. The only reason he cost only that much, because he plays for Dortmund. If he's with Barca, Madrid, City, or even us, he'd have 150+m fee.
Whether we should spend 120m on one player like him, that's a different question.
Whether we should spend 120m on one player like him, that's a different question.
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In negotiation, you normally have a starting point and come down, Borussia Dortmund are above this however even though they’re a selling club.
Not a single footballer in the history of the game is worth 100 million pounds. It's ridiculous.
Weird, it's not illegal to offer a player a contract. Also, the club still keeps wages at 55% of it's revenue or there abouts. Which by all accounts is a fair amount less than the next best club.
I'm not sure if Sancho is worth 100 mil. Mbappe went for more at a younger age but, I feel that was more PSG banking on the future and being a little desperate. All the other world record fees that have been paid came when the players were approaching their mid twenties and had a track record of consistency. Something I feel Sancho still hasn't proven.
Worth it? Yes, probably. Given price of similar talents it's not too steep.
Do we need him? We've been crying out for a RW for years. Last season Greenwood had an amazing breakthough season in that spot. So the answer depends on how many games the manager thinks Greenwood should play, what his best position is longterm (some say centre forward/striker). I think he'd be a great addition, even at that price. Having 4 world class forwards for three spots is reasonable.
Can we afford him? Probably not. Not without taking a risk in the current covid economy.
But the real issue is how we as a club have handled this transfer, all the circus around it. The briefings, the lack of transparency on the clubs position. As a club we've come across as entitled, incompetent and difficult to deal with. Our image has suffered and that is also a loss.
It used to be that when we didn't comment about transfers it came across as classy, but now it feels sheepish and awkward.
Do we need him? We've been crying out for a RW for years. Last season Greenwood had an amazing breakthough season in that spot. So the answer depends on how many games the manager thinks Greenwood should play, what his best position is longterm (some say centre forward/striker). I think he'd be a great addition, even at that price. Having 4 world class forwards for three spots is reasonable.
Can we afford him? Probably not. Not without taking a risk in the current covid economy.
But the real issue is how we as a club have handled this transfer, all the circus around it. The briefings, the lack of transparency on the clubs position. As a club we've come across as entitled, incompetent and difficult to deal with. Our image has suffered and that is also a loss.
It used to be that when we didn't comment about transfers it came across as classy, but now it feels sheepish and awkward.
OK here's 2 questions
If you were a selling club, how much would you expect to get for Mason Greenwood?
if your answer is at least around 100m then the answer to the second question is that Sancho is probably worth it
For me the fact he's English doesn't really come into it. He's been consistently racking up big numbers of goals and assists and his contract is 3 years remaining I think.
If United want to spend 30/40 million which im quite happy with they really need to work harder at idenifying players earlier and do their ground work
If you were a selling club, how much would you expect to get for Mason Greenwood?
if your answer is at least around 100m then the answer to the second question is that Sancho is probably worth it
For me the fact he's English doesn't really come into it. He's been consistently racking up big numbers of goals and assists and his contract is 3 years remaining I think.
If United want to spend 30/40 million which im quite happy with they really need to work harder at idenifying players earlier and do their ground work
I agree that Sancho is worth the money Dortmund want. But I think Greenwood is worth a lot more.
With a guy like him, i ask myself "Whats the worst thing that could happen?" He flops and we sell him when he's 24-25 and recoup 60-80mil back. Atleast thats what a decent selling club could do
In this current market including next summer, we wouldn’t even get one buyer sniffing at £100m for Mason.
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Some people keep saying our Starting 11 is as good as any. Are they only concerned about the Premier League? Do they not consider the Champions League at all? Also, our starting 11 is definitely not as good as any with Lindelof and Harrr Maguire at the back. Far from it. And with Pogba being a hit or miss every other game further exacerbates our problems. And relying on an 18 year old Mason Greenwood a part of the Starting 11 is also worrying.
We need Sancho. We need a proper CB pairing. Apart from cover for the injury prone Luke Shaw.
Dortmund are probably well within their right in asking for it but we’d be mad to pay it in my opinion, certainly not worth it from what i’ve seen of him.
Sarr to me looks just as good for less than half the price, bet his stats would be around the same as Sancho’s if he was at Dortmund.
Sarr to me looks just as good for less than half the price, bet his stats would be around the same as Sancho’s if he was at Dortmund.
Yes Ed he is, buy the player and stop fecking around
which raises the other question....
who is spending 100m on a footballer these days
PSG? Chelsea maybe, City never have
the main point I was making though was that if we wouldn't sell Mason for 100m then Dortmund are more than justified in asking that for Sancho
The only way he goes for 60/70 is if his contract is at 12 months or Dortmund need cash quick
Difference is we don’t need to sell Mason to balance our books or stay afloat. Selling players isn’t part of our business model, as we have vast revenues from sponsorships, merchandising and TV.
BVB don’t have such revenues or stadium money this season and have historically sold their best players to stay profitable.
In that context, Sancho is only worth what a buying club is willing to pay. As you say, it’s a very short list of potential buyers and BVB need to make a careful judgment as to when they think he will sell at peak price. I think that’s this window; clubs will be poorer next window plus he has a year less on his contract.
PS: as I said I don’t think anyone would be interested in Greenwood @ £100m, so that’s not an accurate valuation of him.
I actually agree with you. But of course that's easier said than done.
First to have a competent well drilled system you need a great coach like klopp. Also look at the effect Flick had on bayern.
For a few additions that are useful you need a proper set up to identify and get those players. We couldn't be further from that.
And so we will not challenge for the league while the glazers own us.
#glazersoutwoodwardout
Wow
Worth nowhere near that fee, and I genuinely feel for the lad if we paid anywhere near it as we'd be setting him up for a fall.
Now Mason Greenwood there's a kid i'd break the bank for.
Now Mason Greenwood there's a kid i'd break the bank for.
I really dont think Sancho is this type of player that's targeted by anyone like Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG or the other foreign big boys.
If they were going to pay what dortmund wanted in 100-120 million for the guy; he has to be absolutely exceptional in nearly every game and theres still ones where he is not setting the world absolute alight such as the CL to the point it makes every club in the world crave his signature.
I compare him to Haaland's performances in the UCL, Bundesliga and stats for Norway - if the guy didnt have a buy out clause then the foreign clubs would be going for a bidding war for him.
Sancho not so much. I feel more hyped about him because he is a young english player with great potential, great dribbling ability and versatility - but I dont necessarily see him being worth that type of fee.
Do I still want him? Yes. Because I want the best young english players at the club. However i dont see him being as good as people think he is nor worth the fee to cost him to get him here.
He is worth appropriately at max at 70 million.
If they were going to pay what dortmund wanted in 100-120 million for the guy; he has to be absolutely exceptional in nearly every game and theres still ones where he is not setting the world absolute alight such as the CL to the point it makes every club in the world crave his signature.
I compare him to Haaland's performances in the UCL, Bundesliga and stats for Norway - if the guy didnt have a buy out clause then the foreign clubs would be going for a bidding war for him.
Sancho not so much. I feel more hyped about him because he is a young english player with great potential, great dribbling ability and versatility - but I dont necessarily see him being worth that type of fee.
Do I still want him? Yes. Because I want the best young english players at the club. However i dont see him being as good as people think he is nor worth the fee to cost him to get him here.
He is worth appropriately at max at 70 million.
If he comes now, under this management, he'll ended up as another Pogba.
Wise decision for him not to come here from his perspective, we're at best a 50/50 chance.
Wise decision for him not to come here from his perspective, we're at best a 50/50 chance.
No imo. I think Neymar and MBappe are basically exceptions on price that wont be matched for a while. Coutinho and Dembele followed but i think prices were resettling closer to the price we payed for Pogba.
From that context i think Sancho would just about be fair at 120m in a normal year. Its not a normal year though so its definitely excessive. Its a summer when a champions league winning thiago is worth 30m, Sane is going for 40m. Simple fact is our money could go further elsewhere. I dont think it will or we'll improve the team as much as getting Sancho would but thats another matter.
Leaving aside covid theres a recession on the way. Football won't be unaffected by this one.
From that context i think Sancho would just about be fair at 120m in a normal year. Its not a normal year though so its definitely excessive. Its a summer when a champions league winning thiago is worth 30m, Sane is going for 40m. Simple fact is our money could go further elsewhere. I dont think it will or we'll improve the team as much as getting Sancho would but thats another matter.
Leaving aside covid theres a recession on the way. Football won't be unaffected by this one.
As long as he is playing for Dortmund he is. I'm sure though our coaches would manage to turn him into a €50M player within 6-9 months.
Would agree with that sentiment on Liverpool, not City though, they spent millions on players many sides would want...and "only 3 world class players"...even though I disagree on that number, how many sides have three world class players in them, not many. Going back to your original sentiment though, the majority of both sides players would walk into our side....our playes walking into there sides...again....zero
They're great with their hindsight, bought the right player.
But they didn't bought those 3 for WC record.
FInancially we're better than them
Like one poster said on here nobody else is spending £120 million on one player during the biggest recession of our time
The club tried the staggered payments option and it’s obviously not worked so fans crying because we aren’t buying a player with funds we don’t have is stupid really.
All our finances and debt are public information and our debt cripples the club this season more than any other.
What is the dumbest thing you can do in times of uncertainty? Blow your full budget on one player when we are probably making a massive loss to boot in the near future.
The Glazer’s keeping our debts high is the problem. It’s their fault we weren’t ready for this pandemic. We can’t take big hits and spend. Makes no sense in the real world with our wage budget still high and zero fans at the ground.
The club tried the staggered payments option and it’s obviously not worked so fans crying because we aren’t buying a player with funds we don’t have is stupid really.
All our finances and debt are public information and our debt cripples the club this season more than any other.
What is the dumbest thing you can do in times of uncertainty? Blow your full budget on one player when we are probably making a massive loss to boot in the near future.
The Glazer’s keeping our debts high is the problem. It’s their fault we weren’t ready for this pandemic. We can’t take big hits and spend. Makes no sense in the real world with our wage budget still high and zero fans at the ground.
It makes sense to sign him if you're a team that is looking for the missing piece for £108m. But if you're a team that is still looking for multiple pieces to the puzzle then it makes little sense.
Chilwell 50m, Kavertz 70-100m, Ake 40m.
I cant understand why anybody except our parasite overlords would be worried about the fee. I only care about improving the team and I cant see anybody else as exciting and perfect for our problem position. I could not give one single feck that it might mean the parasites losing a few million in payouts.
The only thing that decides the worth of anything is how much value the buyer expects to get from it. When you consider that most club owners are businessmen, they tend to be quite good at calculating said expected value. I would say some footballers are worth more exactly that if not more, considering how much income they generate to their bosses. If your farts could generate north of a 100 million pounds, they also will be worth 100 millions pounds.
The worst thing that could happen is that he flops and then we keep him around not playing on huge wages for the next 15 years, extending his contract every few years with even higher wages because we won't lose an asset for free this way. This concept is also known as 'The Phil Jones'.
Because we don't work in a vacuum, if we overpaid and bent our back and suck Dortmund's dick we're becoming a playtoy in the long run.
Paying 20M more and getting your man aint' gonna hurt, just like we caved in for Pogba, but for one pogba there'll be Maguire, there'll be Sancho, and so on and so forth.
Dortmund are basically playing chicken with us and they're taking us to the cleaner.
If you're saying "so what, it's our money", we don't have "unlimited resources", we probably generated 100-150 net profit in good times, spending 300M every season is beyond our means. That money comes from somewhere and it isn't endless.
I know not everyone liek Glazers, but it is what it is. Even Manchester City aren't spending loads this season.
They have but they haven't broken the bank on a single one. By breaking the bank, I mean those mega transfers à la Pogba or Van Dijk or what the Spanish clubs and PSG do. @Suedesi is right, the players they bought were considered full of potential and ready to take the next step at the time of buying like Agüero, Silva, De Bruyne, Sterling, Jesus, Bernardo, Stones, Ederson and Laporte or good players if not bonafide world beaters like Walker, Gündogan, Rodri, Fernandinho and Otamendi.
At the time of buying, the first category was no different than our transfers for Maguire, Shaw, Wan-Bissaka, Fred, Fernandes or Martial whereas the second category no different than what feels like a thousand transfers we made post Fergie. They certainly haven't bought anyone coming with superstar status like Di Maria, Sanchez or Pogba. Mahrez is probably the closest to that. The difference is the success rate of those signings is night and day and at some point, we have to ask ourselves, is it really all about luck and desire or whatever abstract notions that get floated around. That would have to be one hell of a curse.
If you're talking commercially, then that is the job for United's commercial and accounting department. Obviously, as a business the club will have looked at alternatives to Sancho. We can have similar debates about players being paid millions. Obviously the owners are making money so for them its an investment.
We are football fans and our focus should be purely on football.
This is a football based opinion. Spending 100 million on one player means you can't spend as much on others. So whether we commit resources to one 100 million player, two 50 million or four 25 million players is something which is the point of discussion. Also, if we wish to spend the motherlode, is Sancho worth it?
Debates about players being paid millions has got nothing to do with this. Not sure what's your grudge with this topic.
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