Yeah I have no issues with Werner. He's played well enough. The goals will come. I was really impressed to with Hudson-Odoi from the left. He was only one that really pushed Mount for man of the match. I hope this ends up being some kind of turning point for him.
Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion
- Thread starter duffer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Maintain what I said a month ago
Lampard will have to win the league, or minimum push it to the last 2 weeks, or he'll be sacked.
He's been signed a top class player in every single position he wanted strengthening.
Literally cannot remember the last Summer a United manager got that. Probably 2012. Even if we only need 3 signings, the board only seem to be able to get 1 or 2. No excuses for Chelsea imo, although i think their fans will create one.
Lampard will have to win the league, or minimum push it to the last 2 weeks, or he'll be sacked.
He's been signed a top class player in every single position he wanted strengthening.
Literally cannot remember the last Summer a United manager got that. Probably 2012. Even if we only need 3 signings, the board only seem to be able to get 1 or 2. No excuses for Chelsea imo, although i think their fans will create one.
Do you think this because of Chelsea's record of firing managers, or do you genuinely believe this should be the expectations and you think Lampard deserves to be sacked if he doesn't match up your expectations?
Genuine question btw.
I think that If you finish in the top 4 and then sign (seven?) first team players and get every position strengthened, and strengthened well, then the next thing will be to title challenge. I think that expectation should be placed on anybody. And I can't see that the Chelsea board have backed Lampard so well just to finish in the top 4 again and make a tiny bit of progress. This backing was about forming a title push whether you like it or not. I'll be stunned if he's out the title race by March again and keeps his job. But feel free to bookmark and come back to me if i'm wrong.
And before we do the whole "but Ole spent x million last summer" - Firstly that was from finishing about 6th the season before. And the spending wasn't a true sign of how "backed" he was. Our board overspent on a CB by about £20m and didn't replace Sanchez or Lukaku for him. Still haven't by the way, 14-15 months on. Ole could only dream of being backed like Lampard has.
That signing of a keeper there is as much backing as I see. I mean Kepa was how much? It is exactly the same as backing for pep when he gets to replace keeper after keeper and 50mil fullbacks with 50mil full backs.
That's fair enough. I don't agree obviously, but i just wanted to know where that view was coming from.
In all honesty, I don't think it's as black and white as that. I think it comes to the points total and the context of the season. If 'tiny progress' to you means 4-5 points more than last season, then yes it will be difficult for him to stand in front of the board/owner and justify requesting their continued backing with those results. If tiny progress just means 4th last season, 3rd or 4th this season then I'd argue it depends on the context - 3rd/4th with 85 points is a lot more than tiny progress, 3rd/4th with 70 points obviously isn't.
This may all sound like excuses to you, but I'd say the same if Arsenal suddenly spent £250m next summer after finishing 4th this season.
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I think it's a year too early for them to challenge but they deffo have to finish with 80+ points.
My only question is (as I have implied from my previous posts) how do you find that confidence that Chelsea will get >80 points this season after the first three (albeit very early) games. Is it not more of a blind hope that everything will gel more than concrete signs of progression from last year? If this form keeps going waiting for them to gel you won’t get to 80 even if they gel. Just look at us last season where we whack most teams including city post Burnley and still not able to get anywhere close to 80. We were the most on form team post Bruno.
what I am trying to say is if you blow hot and cold for a good half a season you won’t get close to any title challenge even if you click in the second half. 80 will be a pipe dream if your current form continues even if you eventually get it right.
as much as I do not want to admit I think arsenal are the ones that have clear signs of progression from last year. Not you, not us, not city, not Tottenham.
I was just about to write the same in response to that Chelsea fan, who doesn't know what he is talking about.
Rashford is a talented player but he does have his quite moments. Nevertheless I believe in him he just needs to polish his all-round game. He does need good coaching to make that happen at Man United and sadly I don't think we have a good coaching setup.
Well considering our new playmaker hasn't played a minute yet. Neither have our brand new left-back and brand new keeper, nor our best player post-lockdown. You say 'albeit very early' as if that isn't enough to withhold judgement. Looking at how the rest of the top 6 have started, I'd say our first 3 games falls right in line with how other teams around us have performed.
As I have said all along, context is important. If less than 80 points can get you 2nd place, then it's obviously been a difficult season with the lack of preparation, shortened recovery time etc - as @Dancfc said, it looks like these whacky results have happened to United, City, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG, Dortmund - and that will be taken into consideration when we're assessing Lampard next summer.
Top two is for sure the usual suspect.
The problem for both our teams is the high flying Everton Leicester and arsenal. You are still dreaming of top 2 when obviously we are looking at top 3 to 7 and are already chasing these teams this early in the campaign. You are already 5 points behind Leicester and Everton? That west Brom team that held you 3-3? You know how much they got beat by both leicester and Everton?
If you are not worried then you’re certainly way more optimistic than me that’s for sure because I am worried about United knowing we can’t drop any silly points from now on. Even the Tottenham game this weekend is a must win. There is no time to gel and not get left behind.
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It's a long season. Everton certainly won't win every game, nor will Calvert-Lewin keep scoring at this rate. Abraham started last season in the same manner, and he cooled off quite badly towards the end. Leicester proved last season they're capable of being 10+ points clear and still collapse and relinquish that lead. I'm not worried, not because I think that highly of my team, but mostly because I anticipate it will be a haphazard chaotic season for everyone, Liverpool included.
A high-flying start is obviously nice, but it doesn't guarantee anything without the consistency to keep it going and going every week for months on end. Just as a poor start doesn't mean the season is over unless that poor start turns into a poor 6 months .
I probably am more optimistic than you, based on everything you've said so far.
In a perverse way I'm kind of glad we're getting a semi reality check early even if the results are a bit misleading due to the pre season feel I mentioned.
Last season and especially under Sarri our great starts caused expectations to get too unrealistically high, even with the new singings a title this season is a huge ask.
On the plus side today, Mendy looked excellent aside from the penalty shootout. Good reactions & technique for the saves from Lamela and Reguilon, was proactive on crosses (did get fortunate that the one he dropped fell straight to Zouma), and made a few good high claims.
Obviously nothing he could do for the equalizer; no clue why Emerson is casually jogging back having only been on for about 20 minutes. He's such a crap player - would strongly prefer to just give all the backup LB minutes to Maatsen.
Obviously nothing he could do for the equalizer; no clue why Emerson is casually jogging back having only been on for about 20 minutes. He's such a crap player - would strongly prefer to just give all the backup LB minutes to Maatsen.
Chelsea fans, is Jorginho is still considered first choice? Or Lampard doesn't trust him anymore and would not start him at all?
I may ask this for the purpose of my FPL team
I may ask this for the purpose of my FPL team
Hard to say. Kante is very obviously our best midfielder, and if we're stubbornly not going to play 4-3-3 for whatever reason then Jorginho probably works best alongside him. At least until Gilmour is fit again.
Since you're not sure I transfer him out. And now he got 2 goals. fecking hell
Thank me later
They obviously want our penalty record. Cheats.
Apologies!!!Since you're not sure I transfer him out. And now he got 2 goals. fecking hell
Thank me later
Finally seeing the shape of a best eleven integrating the new players. Defensively superb, didn’t concede a shot on target. New guys starting to bed in, just need Pulisic and Ziyech to give us the width and hopefully we’ll kick on.
Werner my only concern, playing well for the team but i feel he’s going to be judged on goals and his confidence will dip
Werner my only concern, playing well for the team but i feel he’s going to be judged on goals and his confidence will dip
Werner
0 goals 0 assists in the PL
Havertz
0 goals 1 assist in the PL
Not a great start for £150m
0 goals 0 assists in the PL
Havertz
0 goals 1 assist in the PL
Not a great start for £150m
Looked marginally less clueless than us going forward Vs palace, but shut up shop well. Frank has a selection of attackers to rival city, 4 goals will take the pressure off on paper but they will have to start gelling as you only really get a few months
Hasty and strange use of stats, it’s been four games with no preseason. Both have been used to fill in positions for the team and you’re also ignoring that Werner won two penalties and Havertz one today. Judge them in a few months
Werner has played up front once.
Havertz winning a penalty should count as an extra assist
You realise what that means?
Plenty of potential to improve... we‘ll rock this season
thats a strange thing to go and post just after they won 4-0.
They‘re big signings and are both underwhelming. It’s a legitimate conversation whatever the result.
2 brand new signings, which need to settle. You came in to have a go. I’m all for that, especially when it comes to Chelsea, but think your timing is pretty crap!
I think today’s game is to be expected after the array of talent they have assembled.
The big questions will come away from home, where they conceded an awful lot of goals after the restart in particular.
The big questions will come away from home, where they conceded an awful lot of goals after the restart in particular.
I‘m not having a go. Just laying out the bald facts. Think Havertz will be decent in all honesty but Werner will underwhelm.
Take that sensible crap away from here! This is the caf, we only deal in extremes and hot takes here!
Tell that to my FF team
I can still see chelsea having a chance of finishing 2nd, they are banging in the goals in their first 4 games and that is without pulisic and ziyech, or Werner and havertz showing any real form.
Is Ziyech injured?
Yes knee problem that he got in our only preseason game. Reportedly returning in the next week or two.
Very exciting player. You have got a very good squad now. If Lampard can get his defense sorted out you could challenge for the title.
He was the player i was looking forward to the most out of all of them.
Us chelsea fans saw first hand last season his awesome delivery in to the box from the right hand side against us.
Even in the pre season friendly vs Brighton he played the signature ball in for the goal.
Will be a huge help against bus parkers.
Yeah he's brilliant. Think he and Pulisic will be the key players for us against low blocks; we've struggled at times to break stubborn sides down without them.
Martial is now out of the Chelsea game?
Yeah. 3 match ban for violent conduct. Hat trick for Cavani incoming.