The obsession with dropping Mason Greenwood to the bench

[Skills]

What's with it?

Were PSG fans gagging for Mbappe to be dropped to the bench so he can 'learn' and instead sign a first team RW? Greenwoods future *might* be at CF but he won't be playing there anytime soon because we already have Martial there. Dropping him to the bench does nothing for him. He needs to play regular football to develop, and the place he can offer the most value is on the right side of our attack. Just like Mbappe did for PSG.

And I say he only just might be a CF, because teams nowadays are far more fluid than they were 20 years ago. It's not necessary your goal scoring machine is playing through the middle. In fact someone of Greenwoods shooting skillset might just be better off being a goalscoring wide forward.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

What's with it?

Were PSG fans gagging for Mbappe to be dropped to the bench so he can 'learn' and instead sign a first team RW? Greenwoods future *might* be at CF but he won't be playing there anytime soon because we already have Martial there. Dropping him to the bench does nothing for him. He needs to play regular football to develop, and the place he can offer the most value is on the right side of our attack. Just like Mbappe did for PSG.

And I say he only just might be a CF, because teams nowadays are far more fluid than they were 20 years ago. It's not necessary your goal scoring machine is playing through the middle. In fact someone of Greenwoods shooting skillset might just be better off being a goalscoring wide forward.

Is there an obsession?

he’s been managed very well so far, he’s only 19 and clearly can’t play 60 games. He will have ups and downs over the next few years. but he will get more than enough games

We have very little cover/ competition, and there’s nothing wrong improving that.

there really is not an issue here.

 

[Ekeke]

What's with it?

Were PSG fans gagging for Mbappe to be dropped to the bench so he can 'learn' and instead sign a first team RW? Greenwoods future *might* be at CF but he won't be playing there anytime soon because we already have Martial there. Dropping him to the bench does nothing for him. He needs to play regular football to develop, and the place he can offer the most value is on the right side of our attack. Just like Mbappe did for PSG.

And I say he only just might be a CF, because teams nowadays are far more fluid than they were 20 years ago. It's not necessary your goal scoring machine is playing through the middle. In fact someone of Greenwoods shooting skillset might just be better off being a goalscoring wide forward.

Should the team suffer and be less likely to win in order for Greenwood to get more minutes?

Whats more important, a top 4 finish or 5 more games for Greenwood and finishing 5th or 6th?

 

[Champ]

Is there an obsession?

he’s been managed very well so far, he’s only 19 and clearly can’t play 60 games. He will have ups and downs over the next few years. but he will get more than enough games

We have very little cover/ competition, and there’s nothing wrong improving that.

there really is not an issue here.

Agree with this.

He's just being managed well.

No point running him into the ground, rotation and building him up slowly is perfect man management from Ole and the club.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Young players can burn out quickly and playing in a winning team like Mbappe does keeps you rolling. Playing in this side can disintegrate a young players’ mentality.

 

[cyberman]

Its a weird one. For the entire Sancho saga you would think we still had Mata out there by the way fans were posting.

 

[Stretender]

What's with it?

Were PSG fans gagging for Mbappe to be dropped to the bench so he can 'learn' and instead sign a first team RW? Greenwoods future *might* be at CF but he won't be playing there anytime soon because we already have Martial there. Dropping him to the bench does nothing for him. He needs to play regular football to develop, and the place he can offer the most value is on the right side of our attack. Just like Mbappe did for PSG.

And I say he only just might be a CF, because teams nowadays are far more fluid than they were 20 years ago. It's not necessary your goal scoring machine is playing through the middle. In fact someone of Greenwoods shooting skillset might just be better off being a goalscoring wide forward.

No it's not an obsession. He needs to be managed properly and it's probably the only thing Ole has done right at the club.

I am pleased he is not with England now. He needs rest , played far too many games last season.

Buying Cavani is a masterstroke of a decision in as far as developing Greenwood is concerned.

 

[dinostar77]

Nothing wrong with way Greenwood is being managed, hopefully he can be rested more once Pellestri settles in. At his age needs to be nurtured carefully as fergie did with teenagers.

 

[Chief123]

What's with it?

Were PSG fans gagging for Mbappe to be dropped to the bench so he can 'learn' and instead sign a first team RW? Greenwoods future *might* be at CF but he won't be playing there anytime soon because we already have Martial there. Dropping him to the bench does nothing for him. He needs to play regular football to develop, and the place he can offer the most value is on the right side of our attack. Just like Mbappe did for PSG.

And I say he only just might be a CF, because teams nowadays are far more fluid than they were 20 years ago. It's not necessary your goal scoring machine is playing through the middle. In fact someone of Greenwoods shooting skillset might just be better off being a goalscoring wide forward.

There’s no obsession. But the reality is we can not solely rely on him as our only genuine right wing threat.

He is a young kid. He has been very subdued in his performances ever since the win away at Villa last season which feels a long time ago.

 

[pacifictheme]

This topic is the first I've heard of dropping him.

Rotating him? Absolutely. He's young and his games need to managed, as they do with every player. Not sure it's an obsession, but it is common sense.

 

[Dante]

There's a 1342 page thread about it in the Transfer Forum.

 

[Judas]

Who wants to drop him? He should be in a situation where he can be rotated with someone of equal quality, same with every other position, for his own sake and ours as its for the benefit of everyone.

 

[Dante]

People who wanted to sign Kane apparently wanted to drop Martial. But the people who wanted to Sancho only wanted to rotate Greenwood.

 

[Kostov]

Its a weird one. For the entire Sancho saga you would think we still had Mata out there by the way fans were posting.

Nah I think the Sancho uproar has a different background. If we got Sancho, coupled with the already 3 quality attacking options, we would have had the benefit of having a quality backup option and another potentially undisputed starter. In my view it would have helped push Rashford and Martial to another level, together with the hungry ambitious young Greenwood. Anyone could have lost a spot if underperformed. Now we have Rashford who can play shit again and still find himself starting because we can't move Martial to the left (Cavani might help here though), or we can't replace Martial with Greenwood because we don't have another player to play to that level at RW.

As I already pointed out maybe Cavani would help in this regard, but until he bangs some goals I will be sceptic.

 

[MikeKing]

In the midst of all the negativity surrounding the club, which I'm trying to stay the feck away from, I'm having actual dreams at night about this boy scoring fantastic goals, doing outrageous things.

 

[MadDogg]

People who wanted to sign Kane apparently wanted to drop Martial. But the people who wanted to Sancho only wanted to rotate Greenwood.

Difference is that Kane would only play in one position. It would push Martial back to the left wing, where he'd be competing with another player (Rashford) who would only really play that one position. It could be done and Kane is obviously better than Martial at the moment, but it would make an uncomfortable dynamic similar to when we had Lukaku (although this time we wouldn't have Sanchez making things significantly worse). Meanwhile right wing would still be Greenwood with no quality backup.

Sancho can play either wing, and perhaps #10 at a pinch. Greenwood is capable of playing right wing, striker and probably left wing. Overall it provides better rotational options where all four of the players could rotate quite evenly. Admittedly with a small question of whether Greenwood is ready to play a significant amount of games upfront.

Kane is also pretty much impossible to get and had been showing signs the last two seasons that his injuries had taken a bit from his game. Obviously he's started this season in incredible form but we'll see how long it lasts.

 

[bosnian_red]

Its not an obsession, he's just not a natural right sided player and United need a creator in their front 3 because Greenwood/Martial/Rashford are all too similar. Going for Sancho would mean that any combination of Sancho and 2 of the other 3 would balance really well, but the 3 we have all together just end up being 3 individuals in attack all going for goal, rather than having some creative balance for the 2 goalscorer. And we don't have wingbacks like Liverpool to support that.

Anyway, bigger reason was depth related. Just need to be able to rotate 4 players within those 3 positions, whatever combination. Given that all 3 can play centrally or on the left, while only Greenwood can play on the right, it made sense to get someone for the right.

 

[Green_Red]

Its not an obsession, he's just not a natural right sided player and United need a creator in their front 3 because Greenwood/Martial/Rashford are all too similar. Going for Sancho would mean that any combination of Sancho and 2 of the other 3 would balance really well, but the 3 we have all together just end up being 3 individuals in attack all going for goal, rather than having some creative balance for the 2 goalscorer. And we don't have wingbacks like Liverpool to support that.

Anyway, bigger reason was depth related. Just need to be able to rotate 4 players within those 3 positions, whatever combination. Given that all 3 can play centrally or on the left, while only Greenwood can play on the right, it made sense to get someone for the right.

Rashford and Martial are similar, Greenwood is not like the other two though.

 

[Skills]

Rashford and Martial are similar, Greenwood is not like the other two though.

I don't think any of them are similar. Each of them have different strengths.

Martial is the best dribbler of the 3. He's the most comfortable in tight spaces dropping in to space. Rashford is the most comfortable off the shoulder, he's the one who should be working the channels and is the best crosser of the 3. Greenwood is the best shooter of the 3 and really we should be working the ball more often to get him in a position to shoot more often.

In fact their skill sets compliment each other very well.

 

[midnightmare]

What's with it?

Were PSG fans gagging for Mbappe to be dropped to the bench so he can 'learn' and instead sign a first team RW? Greenwoods future *might* be at CF but he won't be playing there anytime soon because we already have Martial there. Dropping him to the bench does nothing for him. He needs to play regular football to develop, and the place he can offer the most value is on the right side of our attack. Just like Mbappe did for PSG.

And I say he only just might be a CF, because teams nowadays are far more fluid than they were 20 years ago. It's not necessary your goal scoring machine is playing through the middle. In fact someone of Greenwoods shooting skillset might just be better off being a goalscoring wide forward.

What are you on about? Nobody wants to "drop" Mason or have him benched. Everyone can just see what the core issues are:

1. Mason is 19. Just. Turned 19 literally days ago. There is no way we should have him playing 60 games a season and run him into the ground / to the injury table.
2. He's not a right winger. There is a reason our attack is so massively lopsided towards the left - and that isn't just AWB. It's because Mason doesn't offer genuine width and crossing and being a winger isn't his skill-set.
3. We need depth! If Mason is unfit / rested / out of form, our backup currently comprises James (who is better on the left and rubbish on the right) and Lingard (who is rubbish, full stop). Mata doesn't even count, to be fair.

And what is wrong with competition? If there is a better player available for any position, we should have them. Fergie didn't refrain from buying Rio or Vidic just because we had Brown or O'Shea or Pique. He didn't refrain from bringing in Ruud because we had Ole / Yorke / Cole, bringing in Rooney / Saha because we had RvN / Rooney, nor bringing in RvP because we had Welbeck / Berba. Great teams (squads, these days) are built because every player is constantly challenged to earn his place in the starting XI and there are always high quality options on the bench to cover all eventualities / scenarios / tactical situations.

You can't moan about our bench and lack of different styles / options while also moaning about the manager wanting to strengthen the squad.

 

[sullydnl]

Far more baffling to me is the obsession with thinking of players as either "starters" or "bench players".

City's attack of a few years ago was arguably the best I've seen in terms of depth in the PL and is the benchmark other teams should aim for. They had Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Sane, Silva, the other Silva, Mahrez and KDB all capable of slotting in and out of attacking positions and the starting eleven generally. Despite being so stocked, they didn't fret that whoever wasn't starting in a given week had somehow been condemned to the bench and would stagnate. Because they had a host of games in which to play them in and having that quality in reserve was a positive, not a negative.

That's a level of both depth and first team strength we currently don't have. So of course Greenwood should ideally be on the bench quite regularly if we can strengthen the team enough for that to be an option. And whoever is starting ahead of him should ideally be as good or better again than Greenwood currently is. Then whenever Greenwood plays, a high quality player drops out of the team to take his place on the bench. And so on.

People need to get over this idea of players "being benched" as if it's some permanent thing, or even a status that will be held consistently throughout a season. Especially when our attackers arguably play too much as is. Quite frankly, the likes of Rashford and Martial could do with more games on the bench, let alone a kid like Greenwood who has just broken into the team relatively recently. That room to rest and/or step out of the side when in bad form would make them all better players and raise the level of the team as a whole.

Even if we had signed a top class RW this summer, insufficient gametime was never going to be an issue Greenwood faced.

 

[Highfather_24]

Its not an obsession, he's just not a natural right sided player and United need a creator in their front 3 because Greenwood/Martial/Rashford are all too similar. Going for Sancho would mean that any combination of Sancho and 2 of the other 3 would balance really well, but the 3 we have all together just end up being 3 individuals in attack all going for goal, rather than having some creative balance for the 2 goalscorer. And we don't have wingbacks like Liverpool to support that.

Anyway, bigger reason was depth related. Just need to be able to rotate 4 players within those 3 positions, whatever combination. Given that all 3 can play centrally or on the left, while only Greenwood can play on the right, it made sense to get someone for the right.

Well said. Since our fullbacks dont provide creativity, we need atleast one winger to be creative, and support Bruno.

 

[ChaddyP]

Its a weird one. For the entire Sancho saga you would think we still had Mata out there by the way fans were posting.

A lot of the fans myself included wanted extra cover for the left and right flank and to have Greenwood competing more for the striker position

 

[bosnian_red]

Rashford and Martial are similar, Greenwood is not like the other two though.

Theyre all primarily goalscorers or inside forwards. None of them are creators really. Its an attacking line that works as individuals to create chances through individual quality, same with Bruno/Pogba. It kinda works with a good defensive system, but we haven't had that this season so it all falls apart and its not complimenting each other to get more out of it. Putting a creator like Sancho in there alongside them makes sense to balance it out, get more fluidity/unpredictability and not be so reliant on individual moments.

 

[He'sRaldo]

@Skills It's simply an excuse to get Sancho. If Sancho didn't exist there's no way we'd be thinking of benching Greenwood. Sancho and Greenwood are of similar ages anyway so the age thing doesn't make sense.

People balked at Willian if I recall correctly, who would actually have been a good RW player to rotate with Greenwood, and on a free transfer as well. So I doubt it was about rotation.

 

[Sandikan]

What are you on about? Nobody wants to "drop" Mason or have him benched. Everyone can just see what the core issues are:

1. Mason is 19. Just. Turned 19 literally days ago. There is no way we should have him playing 60 games a season and run him into the ground / to the injury table.
2. He's not a right winger. There is a reason our attack is so massively lopsided towards the left - and that isn't just AWB. It's because Mason doesn't offer genuine width and crossing and being a winger isn't his skill-set.
3. We need depth! If Mason is unfit / rested / out of form, our backup currently comprises James (who is better on the left and rubbish on the right) and Lingard (who is rubbish, full stop). Mata doesn't even count, to be fair.

And what is wrong with competition? If there is a better player available for any position, we should have them. Fergie didn't refrain from buying Rio or Vidic just because we had Brown or O'Shea or Pique. He didn't refrain from bringing in Ruud because we had Ole / Yorke / Cole, bringing in Rooney / Saha because we had RvN / Rooney, nor bringing in RvP because we had Welbeck / Berba. Great teams (squads, these days) are built because every player is constantly challenged to earn his place in the starting XI and there are always high quality options on the bench to cover all eventualities / scenarios / tactical situations.

You can't moan about our bench and lack of different styles / options while also moaning about the manager wanting to strengthen the squad.

Agree with a lot of this, but Rashford isn't much of a crosser from the left anyway.
And any crosses aren't that effective for Martial who isn't that tall, or going to head that many in.

Cavani is an interesting addition to the mix, but again, we've not got a lot of crossing ability in there.

So to conclude, this break has come at a good time

 

[golden_blunder]

I’d flip this on the OP and ask do you really want him playing all season without proper breaks? Fergie used to speak at great length about protecting young players from burnout.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He’s a bag man. If he’s not scoring goals he doesn’t offer much to the team. He’s also only 18.

 

[Dante]

He’s a bag man. If he’s not scoring goals he doesn’t offer much to the team. He’s also only 18.

It's been obvious for ages that you're not a United fan.

Judging by your previous posts, I'm guessing Arsenal. I don't know why you're bothering to pretend, though. This forum is full of oppos. Nobody will think any less of you for it.

 

[sullydnl]

@Skills It's simply an excuse to get Sancho. If Sancho didn't exist there's no way we'd be thinking of benching Greenwood. Sancho and Greenwood are of similar ages anyway so the age thing doesn't make sense.

People balked at Willian if I recall correctly, who would actually have been a good RW player to rotate with Greenwood, and on a free transfer as well. So I doubt it was about rotation.

People here also balked at Willian years ago when he was closer to his prime and Greenwood wasn't a factor. I wouldn't read too much into it.

And if it was just about Sancho we wouldn't have had all the posts talking about potential Sancho alternatives, the need to move on to alternatives and the regret that we didn't move on to alternatives. All of which were present throughout the transfer window.

And more to the point, if it was just about Sancho from the club's POV we wouldn't have made those loan bids for Dembele and Sarr.

 

[Nep77]

I agree and he scored 17 last season. We could obviously have done with other better quality option but crying like we don't have any option is beyond my understanding. Problem isn't the attack, we have three goal scorer and we need to provide them platform to perform and win us games. Our midfield and defence doesn't let them do it because of both shape and personal. Thats the bigger issue thats needs to be addressed right now.

 

[He'sRaldo]

People here also balked at Willian years ago when he was closer to his prime and Greenwood wasn't a factor. I wouldn't read too much into it.

And if it was just about Sancho we wouldn't have had all the posts talking about potential Sancho alternatives, the need to move on to alternatives and the regret that we didn't move on to alternatives. All of which were present throughout the transfer window.

And more to the point, if it was just about Sancho from the club's POV we wouldn't have made those loan bids for Dembele and Sarr.

It started off being about not having a starting RW and thus needing Sancho, and from there evolved into needing options for the forward positions. One of which, of course, had to be Sancho. That's why options like Dembele and Sarr were recieved quite poorly: people were making a comparison with Sancho all the time, so it clearly wasn't purely about depth.

And of course years ago we'd balk at Willian as first choice RW, but if the aim was actually to give Greenwood enough rest and rotation to not burn him out, then I don't see why we would balk at Willian. Unless that is, we're comparing him to Sancho, in which case he's a significant downgrade.

 

[harms]

Sancho's signing was required as he offers something different to Martial, Rashford and Greenwood – he is the only one who can play as a genuine winger and his general play and the set of strengths is quite unique. With 4 young players in competition for 3 spots surely Greenwood would've had enough time.

Since Sancho's transfer is dead and the thread was opened today, I wonder, what was the reason? I haven't seen anyone saying that we should start Cavani immediately or bench Greenwood for James/Lingard/Mata.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

It's been obvious for ages that you're not a United fan.

Judging by your previous posts, I'm guessing Arsenal. I don't know why you're bothering to pretend, though. This forum is full of oppos. Nobody will think any less of you for it.

United fan all my life. In fact I can’t even remember “choosing” United, it’s just all I know from my family. Earliest football memory is beating Chelsea 1-0 at the bridge, Phil Neville scored, think it was a cup game. I must have been only 4 or 5 years old.

What makes you come to the conclusion that I’m an Arsenal fan btw? Because I’m so negative about our current state? Who wouldn’t be? We’ve been nowhere near a title for nearly a decade. I would argue that us who demand more are much bigger fans than those who accept challenging for top 4, ironically becoming Arsenal..

Greenwood is a tremendous young player, with a very very bright future, 2 footed & a natural goal threat, but he’s also 18 years old & needs to be nurtured properly. I don’t see how correctly identifying that he doesn’t offer much creatively makes me “not a United fan” but whatever..

 

[CG1010]

Sancho's signing was required as he offers something different to Martial, Rashford and Greenwood – he is the only one who can play as a genuine winger and his general play and the set of strengths is quite unique. With 4 young players in competition for 3 spots surely Greenwood would've had enough time.

Since Sancho's transfer is dead and the thread was opened today, I wonder, what was the reason? I haven't seen anyone saying that we should start Cavani immediately or bench Greenwood for James/Lingard/Mata.

I guess it is in response to the thread "looking for alternatives for Jadon Sancho"... People were probably fine with grasping the opportunity of signing Sancho but not very clear if we need to desperately look for alternatives. Especially as we have also got Dailio to fill in there

 

[Adamsk7]

I think the real reason is he’s a striker playing as a wide forward. Sure he can play there but we want to develop him in his natural position. For all his individual brilliance, he’s still got a lot to learn about hold up play, timing his runs and he’s still developing physically too. A year where he gets to see the movement of someone like Cavani will only be helpful to not just him but Martial and Rashford too. He’ll get plenty of games and some of them will be as striker too for once.
I honestly believe that a player coming through can often learn more about how to impact a game by being on the bench, seeing the opportunities and coming on to make the difference as they can by constantly starting.

 

[MackRobinson]

People who wanted to sign Kane apparently wanted to drop Martial. But the people who wanted to Sancho only wanted to rotate Greenwood.

Too true

 

[MackRobinson]

Imagine buying a £108 winger just for the sake of rotation. The Caf plays too much FM.

 

[Lentwood]

Nobody wants to see Mason dropped to the bench but nobody wants to see Lingard, Mata or James starting an extended run of PL games so we need more than three forwards!

If anybody is going to have their starting place under threat its Rashford for me. He is the one who needs to step up. Take out his penalties and his goalscoring record isn’t good enough yet to play inside forward for a club with ambitions of winning trophies

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Where's the obsession? Greenwood is a wonderful young player but we do need someone who is more of natural on the right (and brilliant at the same time) to give balance to the team. Besides he's 19 and doesn't have to play 60 games a season and that too locked down with RW as his fixed position. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all essentially strikers in one form or another. So, calls for us adding a true wide player are reasonable. Also, he's not at Mbappe's level as much as we all love Greenwood. Not yet at least.