Should we be worried about Rashford?

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Kinda pissed me off reading now that to be honest..

Sorry man, wasn't the intention. Suppose that famous quote "To retain respect for sausages and laws, one must not watch them in the making." also works for PR.

It’s a bit unfair on fans as well building up something of a fake persona and making them believe he’s a lot better person than he potentially is.

Gotta say though, everything I've heard about him has been positive - that he's a nice, polite, grounded (as it's possible to be in his position) kid.

Even in the articles that focus on the business side of it, they point out that the campaign worked because it was believable and grounded in his own reality.

An excerpt from one of the non-paywalled columns:

Spoiler

The Roc Nation campaign was flawless in it's execution, but couldn't have been achieved without somebody like Rashford as the face of it.

It was an overdue reminder for PR professionals that not every successful campaign in 2020 has to be spearheaded by over the top stunts. You don't have to lean in to controversy on social media. You don't even have to give a single thought to the increasingly prized sticky content.

This wasn’t high tech campaign. It's wasn't fresh. It wasn't even original.

Where it succeeded though, was in offering a smart, simple narrative that tugged on the heartstrings. It was a throwback to campaigns of an oft-forgotten era.

It placed Rashford squarely at the centre, as the human interest, real-life insight behind the campaign. It focused on Rashford's own upbringing: his free school meals, the breakfast club he attended.

The launch was perfect, with Roc Nation connecting hard on a one-two punch of both old and new media. They set up broadcast interview with PR friendly journalist Elaine Dunkley, while simultaneously posting a sublimely written open letter on Rashford's social media accounts.

With an abundance of influential people supporting, framing the letter in a tone of kindness and human concern made it an easy call to action.

Despite the campaign's undeniable brilliance - further cementing Roc Nation as the shooting star of the PR world - there's no doubt that it wouldn't have been as successful without a character as engaging, believable and emotionally resonant as Marcus Rashford, who oozed authenticity and has so far hit all the right notes.

 

[SteveW]

Was he bad for England or something?

Thought he was starting to look back to himself in his last couple of United games. Seemed to have his explosiveness back and was running at defenders. Scored a couple of really nice goals too.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Hasn't been the same since the restart. Feel like most people think it's just bad form but given he came back from a long term injury and he's been bad since then shouldn't we be worried?

Too many people were thinking Rashford & Martial are anywhere near Mane & Salah level, all based on stats only. In reality they haven’t yet reach anywhere near the world class level. It’s not surprising that Rashford & Martial have inconsistent in their form. Nothing to worry, Rashford is still developing, his age is still considered as young age & he will get better.

 

[shoegazing]

RVP said last season that he had a similar back injury at 19 (stress fracture in lower back) as Rashford has had and it stayed with him forever, a weak spot that had to be managed for the rest of his career.



I don't think it's a coincidence that his game has changed since his injury. He's deeper, more of a creator and no longer the all-action forward he used to be. He still has his bursts of pace, but he's a lot more subdued than before his injury i've noticed. Whether he is going to be like this from now on, or he will be able to get back to his previous level given time we will have to see, but yeah I'm concerned.

To be honest, If his career pans out similar to RVP's and he makes similar achievements, then I would be over the moon. RVP was a fantastic player and if Marcus can recreate that Van Persie form (from 2011-13) then I think any united supporter should be wrapped. Goes to show that you can overcome an injury like that and still be world class.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think we need to manage our expectations rather.

I do think there's some truth to this. Radford is clearly a very good footballer and will hopefully regain his form soon. However I think it's also important to understand his qualities as a footballer, as opposed to letting them be influenced by his background. He's rapid, works hard and has strong end product, but I of think it's fair to build him up as a world class talent by default. For me, I've not seen the technical skill or the football vision to reach such heights, so it's important to guage his qualities and let him live up to reasonable expectations.

As French posters will agree, Pogba was billed as a potential Balon Dor winner purely on his skillfulness and physical attributes forgetting that he doesn't have the tactical understanding and footballing intelligence to get there.

I like both players (although I'd sell Pogba given the current situation we/he is in), but we shouldn't be unrealistic and I have a feeling many see Rashford as someone who will inevitably be one of the best in the game, and that part I'm not totally convinced by.

 

[fps]

RVP said last season that he had a similar back injury at 19 (stress fracture in lower back) as Rashford has had and it stayed with him forever, a weak spot that had to be managed for the rest of his career.



I don't think it's a coincidence that his game has changed since his injury. He's deeper, more of a creator and no longer the all-action forward he used to be. He still has his bursts of pace, but he's a lot more subdued than before his injury i've noticed. Whether he is going to be like this from now on, or he will be able to get back to his previous level given time we will have to see, but yeah I'm concerned.

This is the concern for sure, especially as pace and energy are so important to his game. That’s not a criticism either, they are an important part of his identity as a player.

 

[clarkydaz]

To be honest, If his career pans out similar to RVP's and he makes similar achievements, then I would be over the moon. RVP was a fantastic player and if Marcus can recreate that Van Persie form (from 2011-13) then I think any united supporter should be wrapped. Goes to show that you can overcome an injury like that and still be world class.

He isnt close to the footballer RVP was though. The comparison is an injury that stays with you from a young age

 

[shoegazing]

He isnt close to the footballer RVP was though. The comparison is an injury that stays with you from a young age

I guess so. I think the point still stands that you can achieve big things as a forward despite an injury like that.

 

[Judas]

Even with lockdown happening I still think he came back too soon, obviously I'm not a medical expert, but we've seen how poorly this team manages injuries.

 

[Deery]

Sorry man, wasn't the intention. Suppose that famous quote "To retain respect for sausages and laws, one must not watch them in the making." also works for PR.



Gotta say though, everything I've heard about him has been positive - that he's a nice, polite, grounded (as it's possible to be in his position) kid.

Even in the articles that focus on the business side of it, they point out that the campaign worked because it was believable and grounded in his own reality.

An excerpt from one of the non-paywalled columns:

Thanks very insightful stuff...

 

[Lay]

Give over with that nonsense. How long are you going to give this lad excuses for?

He really isn't that good, and should spend more time focusing on his football, than spending other people's money on other people's kids.

Damn right! Football > starving kids.

 

[Renegade]

Back injuries are serious and will stay with you for life

That’s really interesting to read kind of takes the shine of the MBE when you realise it’s all just a PR stunt.

It’s a bit unfair on fans as well building up something of a fake persona and making them believe he’s a lot better person than he potentially is, when in real life he could be a complete bastard that doesn’t particularly care about free meals for schools (not saying he does but you get want I mean).

Using the notable charities as well to further your brand is a bit annoying. It just goes to show in the world today it’s never as it seems to be.

Kinda pissed me off reading now that to be honest..

Also always thought Rashfords tweets were his own, another thing that pisses me off misleading fans again.

90% of sports personalities or celebs do this in fairness to Rashford.

 

[Oldyella]

People really should start getting banned for this bollocks. What he has done in the last year will always eclipse anything he will do on a football pitch. Priorities.

Hear fecking hear. I read this shite on Twitter and can instantly assume whoever's posting that shite is a dickhead..

 

[iammemphis]

I was full of optimism about Rashfords potential with us, but the more he matures the more i am starting to believe he doesn't have the ability to carry the team when needed, like Salah/Mane does, Hazard did, Aguero or United comparisions like RVP, Ruud, Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney. He just seems to be the tier below the truely elite players. He really needs to sort his consistency out.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

What is is doing away from football is outstanding don’t get me wrong. However, he must balance this with what put him into that prominent position in society in the first place, ie being a world class footballer for Manchester Utd. It’s impossible to knock him but Ole and the coaches must keep him focused on his day job, particularly right now at a time the team needs all his talent ON the pitch.

 

[Deery]

90% of sports personalities or celebs do this in fairness to Rashford.

I had an idea he had some sort of team working with him but didn’t realise they pick the subject matter, do all the ground work, do all the tweets, do all government stuff, for the food for kids campaign.

When you look at it the way it was truthfully presented it makes you feel a little ‘conned’ (to steal a word from Paul Scholes).

 

[Icemav]

Back injuries take awhile to come back fully from, no?

No! Never! Ever!

 

[Lewnited]

I think the worry for me at the moment is that he's absolutely passive at the moment in defence and attack. He has some quality so will still get a few goals and assists to his name, but the pressing, runs in behind and dribbling that I've associated with him for years have just disappeared.
We'll see how he gets on over the next few weeks, with Martial missing a few games he'll be forced to step up to the plate if his body is up to it.

 

[Icemav]

Was he bad for England or something?

Thought he was starting to look back to himself in his last couple of United games. Seemed to have his explosiveness back and was running at defenders. Scored a couple of really nice goals too.

Nope wasn't running around like a ferrari for England!! He wasn't! We have a big problem!

(Or perhaps this thread is several weeks too late)

 

[Nick7]

He was good after the restart, very involved in the build up play during our good run. He started playing poorly when all of our players started playing crap following the game against Southampton.

 

[TheGame]

Dip in form in line with the team's. He's had bursts like the goal this season where he has shown what he can do. Hopefully he can pick up that form again and the team can improve as well.

 

[Rood]

Aside from that goal his form has been poor for quite some time though.

I think he was average to poor post lockdown after a bad injury but has been ok this season, our whole team is off form and there are far bigger worries than Rashford (Pogba, Maguire etc) in my opinion

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

While you clearly know more about this in general than me, I still have doubts Rashford is no more affected than, say,Reece James or Tyrone Mings. Not only was his activity in the lunch battle more self driven and expansive than the run of the mill charity activities, but knowing how much slight detractions of focus sometimes can affect young athletes at that level, I find it likely that the engagement in that campaign and attention of the MBE might get a 22 years old lad to lose his blinds for a while. There is a reason Fergie protected his fledglings from attention like that, and there is a reason he hated Posh Spice like the bubonic plague. Not saying it’s a dead cert, but it’s one of those things that can explain a loss of form, flow and confidence as sharp as the one we‘ve seen from Marcus between February and July.

Sorry, didn't see this last night but you're right - that's a good point that I didn't really consider. I was just thinking in terms of pure off-field workload, which hasn't really increased much....but looking at it from the point of view of being thrust into a completely different type of spotlight than he's used to, of 'dealing' with the interest and praise etc.... could definitely have some sort of impact.

Your Fergie line reminded me of a story from one of my old bosses. He worked with a couple of United players around 2007-2010. One day he was at Carrington, supervising a couple of print interviews and Fergie had apparently come out to talk to the journalist conducting them. Thinking this was his big chance, my boss introduced himself, said he worked PR for x and y, and instantly Fergie started shouting at him "PR? What the f*ck do we need PR for? We're the best team in the country. PR. F*cking pack of swindlers." Apparently he was half-joking, but my boss always told it as the time he got the hairdryer from Sir Alex.

Edit - Somehow forgot Fergie's absolute best line, despite quoting it for the last decade. "PR. Professional f*cking Robbers more like".

 

[RashyForPM]

Obviously he’s my favourite player but I really feel for him. Everyone criticises him but had he not gotten that injury (thank you Doherty and Ole), I’m confident his hot streak would have led to him outscoring Vardy’s 23 goals and winning the golden boot. I mean, he’d already scored 14 by the time he got injured. Aside from the mental benefits that would have brought him, instead he came back after lockdown putting average to decent performances in I think having not really gotten over his injury yet (double back stress fracture is a really bad one of course), which has carried over into this season.

For me, give the lad until mid-November to get back into the swing of things. He’s still shown moments of quality ala the Palace and Brighton goals since his return. Don’t drop him btw; he’s still far better than James and Ighalo even in this topsy-turvy form.

 

[DoomSlayer]

We should be worried about one of our only goalscorers so far this season? Have some of you guys gone mad? The majority of the starting 11 has been playing worse than Rashford so if we are worrying about Rashford, where does that leave everyone else?

 

[Roane]

Rashford came into the team and showed talent however I think he has not realised his potential and sadly I think currently we need better if we are going to overcome likes of City and LFC.

That said I do feel sympathy for him, and others in our current team, simply because I think their development has not been the best simply due to how we have been as a team post SAF. Tbh it reminds me of LFC before Rogers and Klopp. As in young players coming in and asked to do too much and stifling their development.

I listened to a Glenn Hoddle thing a while back, think it was when he had that academy for players who hadn't made it. What he said made a lot of sense to me.

The gist of it, or main point for me, was how the players are taught to play one way when in academies but have to change once get into the first team. So basically you have to be selfish and be like the player at school who gets the ball and never passes but takes on everyone. That is what attracts attention for you. Once in the first team you qhve to undo all that and play as part of a team.

This is why you see players getting a few minutes in first teams for a while and then slowly getting more.

We have been in a position where we have bought players in and had to rely on them. This can cause burn out or a "headless chicken" approach. Likes of Adnan were subjected to this imo.

Interestingly also the "window" for certain development can be missed and this causes issues for players future chances. But I can't remember the details of that

 

[Glorio]

Personally I get the sense our medical staff are well below bar (could be wrong).

There have been quite a few injuries related to people coming back too soon, and some very questionable estimates as well - I'm trying to remember the instance where the prognosis was that the player would be out for months, only for said player to return after two weeks.

Rashford's back injury was completely avoidable. He should never have been cleared to be on the bench against Wolves.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I’d say it’s more a combination of a lack of competition and poor coaching.

he’s become very relaxed, almost slack in possession. He plays it “cool” and ends up just passing sideways. In his early season form before his injury he was being really direct and cut throat.

not sure why the sudden change but the coaches need to snap him out of it.

 

[FizzyWomack]

Starting to think he’s massively over rated.

It’s the elephant in the room.

 

[RedDevil@84]

As I posted couple of times on other threads, he doesn't seem to be happy or even smiling after scoring. He looks a bit serious, maybe that is his way of maturing.
I want to see him enjoying the football and jumping in the air after scoring and putting on a big smile.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Starting to think he’s massively over rated.

It’s the elephant in the room.

No one thinks he is Ronaldo in making. Besides, we are not spoilt for choices. Martial is as inconsistent as Rashford.

 

[RedDevil@84]

He really isn't that good, and should spend more time focusing on his football, than spending other people's money on other people's kids.

Jeez. Can't believe anyone would post such stuff.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Jeez. Can't believe anyone would post such stuff.

jesus. What a tool.

 

[DoomSlayer]

As I posted couple of times on other threads, he doesn't seem to be happy or even smiling after scoring. He looks a bit serious, maybe that is his way of maturing.
I want to see him enjoying the football and jumping in the air after scoring and putting on a big smile.

I remember a season or two ago Rashford totally mishitting a good chance and was laughing after about how bad he mishit it. The Caf murdered him for that, people were questioning him smiling whilst the team was supposedly struggling to score the chances we had.

And now suddenly he is too serious, he should jump around even if the whole start of the season has been a shambles. It's so funny how quickly things change. From a "kick and run merchant" to "not enough kicking and running with the ball".

 

[RedDevil@84]

I remember a season or two ago Rashford totally mishitting a good chance and was laughing after about how bad he mishit it. The Caf murdered him for that, people were questioning him smiling whilst the team was supposedly struggling to score the chances we had.

And now suddenly he is too serious, he should jump around even if the whole start of the season has been a shambles. It's so funny how quickly things change. From a "kick and run merchant" to "not enough kicking and running with the ball".

I am not advocating him to jump around and giggle when Maguire pulls down Shaw and helps Spurs score a goal.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I am not advocating him to jump around and giggle when Maguire pulls down Shaw and helps Spurs score a goal.

I know, I'm just saying that certain narratives are created so that people can justify their opinions, whereas the problems have nothing to do with Rashford, he's one of the last players to worry about.

 

[Stretender]

The only thing to worry about him is that he hasn't developed his game beyond pace and a powerful shot.

His current performances are mainly to do with form. He can easily regain form.

He needs to develop into a good decision maker on the pitch. Roy Keane said something similar after the England, Belgium game. Do the basics right and then the rest of your game will flow from there.

I don't think he is a starting player for any team wanting to win big trophies. He wouldn't start for Liverpool or Manchester City.

 

[NoPace]

Well that is disappointing if he isn’t up too it as a winger because there is no way he will be good enough as striker for us we have seen it before

Disagree, his goal record is fine for his age and he showed minor flashes of Aubameyang/Vardy speed on the final shoulder kind of stuff, I think if we sold Martial and bought Sancho a Sancho wide left and a bit deeper and Rashford-Greenwood ahead would look pretty good assuming we're playing decent stuff in the midfield and back line. Still not clear how we'd break down deep defenses though, we're gonna need to link play way better and get better delivery from fullbacks (Telles presumably a good start) but we should have goals from the midfield in Bruno, VDB and Pogba in theory (again in the hypothetical future where we have a strong team playing good stuff under a new manager or Ole somehow fixing things).

 

[flappyjay]

Maybe the 3 months last season was just a purple patch?

It's not just that no matter how out off form he was he was always trying something. Now he sometimes seems afraid to take on his man.

 

[Shiva87]

Back injuries are serious and will stay with you for life

That’s really interesting to read kind of takes the shine of the MBE when you realise it’s all just a PR stunt.

It’s a bit unfair on fans as well building up something of a fake persona and making them believe he’s a lot better person than he potentially is, when in real life he could be a complete bastard that doesn’t particularly care about free meals for schools (not saying he does but you get want I mean).

Using the notable charities as well to further your brand is a bit annoying. It just goes to show in the world today it’s never as it seems to be.

Kinda pissed me off reading now that to be honest..

Also always thought Rashfords tweets were his own, another thing that pisses me off misleading fans again.

The initiatives and places to create an influence are his own. His letter to the PM would be his own. So it really does not take the shine off the MBE.

It's more like being the CEO of an organisation. He makes the key decisions, and his team of professionals do all the day to day work so he can focus on his day job (football)