Pickford's tackle on VVD: What should be the punishment?

[B20]

I could be wrong but I'm assuming VAR didn't call this out as this happened after VAR had deemed a Pool player offside and hence everything that happens after the first foul (i.e, offside) is no longer under VAR's jurisdiction. Is this right? Because otherwise I don't see how that isn't a red card after VAR has looked at it.

It's just shocking incompetence from both the var ref and Oliver, who is just standing there waiting for VAR to do the entirety of his job for him. He should at the least have been asking them about the incident.

 

[diarm]

There should be the minimum ban as normal, but he should also be kept from playing until his victim can play again.

We need tackles like that eradicated from the game and it's totally unfair that the guy sitting in the physio room for the next few weeks or months, will have to watch the guy who butchered him play every week.

I remember thinking the exact same after the Shaw tackle a few years ago.

 

[arthurka]

Don't know how this works now with VAR. Didn't VAR just handle this on the pitch? It was a terrible tackle and a sad outcome for VVD and Liverpool but I truly hope he will be there to face us.

 

[Lay]

It benefits Everton if he gets banned

 

[Bobcat]

VAR isn't the problem, it's just there to help authorities to see things they would otherwise miss in the heat of the game. It's the officials who use VAR who are the problem. These are the same incompetent referees we see week in week out. If you're using these same people then nothing is going to work. They should be clear rules and training given to them. If they still feck up, then get rid of them and see if you can find sensible people to handle this and hopefully (if we get lucky) people with integrity.

Well actually, i would say its neither. The root problem is that the refs are seen as infallible, so once a decision has been made in the game its done and dusted and not open for further action. No doubt Oliver and Tierney made the wrong call there, but if it was possible to overturn their call there are retrospectively punish Pickford i think people would be a lot happier.

Now of course wrong and decisive calls in matches cant be undone and its not like the match is going to be replayed, but if the FA could admit their refs made mistakes once in a while it would be a lot more palatable for the rest of us. For example the Martial/Lamela incident feels bloody unfair because what Martial did was no worse than what Lamela did. The difference is that the latter managed to con the ref by acting like a cnut. Now the sending off is in the past, but really, either Martial should have his ban lifted or Lamela should have faced similar sanctions

The whole thing is so incredibly daft. In any other walk of life, blatantly wrong decisions can be overturned, but not in the EPL because apparently the refs never makes mistakes there

 

[SER19]

It's a terrible challenge that should have been a straight red and the 3 match ban that goes with it. The hysterics and calling for 8 matches and investigations is all a bit embarrassing.

 

[gorky_utd]

If vvd is out for 6 months the only proper punishment for Pickford should also be a 6 month ban. It was clearly a reckless tackle and should be punished harshly. Last season Romelu also tried to badly injure Greenwood. Tough punishments are required.

 

[King7Eric]

It's just shocking incompetence from both the var ref and Oliver, who is just standing there waiting for VAR to do the entirety of his job for him. He should at the least have been asking them about the incident.

I think the issue here is the ref probably saw the tackle in real time but didn't deem it a foul. Then when VAR checked for the penalty, they found one of your guys offside and the review ended there. I don't know what's the ruling when it comes to VAR checking for potential red card offences once the ball is not officially in play, as was the case here. I can only assume its this grey area that prevented Pickford from getting sent off. That is why he might get retrospective punishment, but he wasn't sent off after the VAR check.

 

[Stretender]

If he gets banned, Everton win the league.

I would say ban him for the rest of the season then.

But VAR is stupid anyway. Lamela did not elbow Martial, and Lamela did not feign injury to get Martial sent off. It seems VAR is being operated by corrupt people.

Just get rid of VAR.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He's a calamity of a player and Ancelotti would probably be happier if he gets a long suspension. I'm not sure how he's still England's #1 over Henderson.

 

[Marcus]

Anybody got a GIF? I can't tell just from a still.

 

[arnie_ni]

I think the issue here is the ref probably saw the tackle in real time but didn't deem it a foul. Then when VAR checked for the penalty, they found one of your guys offside and the review ended there. I don't know what's the ruling when it comes to VAR checking for potential red card offences once the ball is not officially in play, as was the case here. I can only assume its this grey area that prevented Pickford from getting sent off. That is why he might get retrospective punishment, but he wasn't sent off after the VAR check.

He gave a pen. Thats why they checked for offside

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

This is a Manchester United forum. You are doing it wrong. Aren't we supposed to give Pickford a Knighthood for that?
But then I remember this is the Redcafe, not a hardcore hub of angry fans. And I'm glad for that.

You had me in the firs half there.

 

[Marcus]

Ok I had a look. He didn't go studs in. Definitely a red card but it doesn't look malicious, just a desperate professional foul. We don't need to get outraged on Liverpool's behalf just to be PC.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He's a calamity of a player and Ancelotti would probably be happier if he gets a long suspension. I'm not sure how he's still England's #1 over Henderson.

over Pope.

 

[Giggsyking]

If vvd is out for 6 months the only proper punishment for Pickford should also be a 6 month ban. It was clearly a reckless tackle and should be punished harshly. Last season Romelu also tried to badly injure Greenwood. Tough punishments are required.

Yeah that how football works, I guess Luke Shaw was not happy when the player that broke his leg went to be the man of the match at the same game?

 

[Giggsyking]

I think if VAR checked it and decided nothing, then there should be no punishment.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Actually, an ACL tear is not that painful. There’s an initial searing pain, but it goes away relatively quickly. Broken bones are much more painful for a longer duration.

With an ACL injury your recovery time is 6-9 months out on average. With broken bones, Andre Gomes as an example was back in the squad after a 4 month lay off

 

[calodo2003]

With an ACL injury your recovery time is 6-9 months out on average. With broken bones, Andre Gomes as an example was back in the squad after a 4 month lay off

Not saying that recovery is shorter for an ACL year, I’m saying the overall pain level is typically less & for less time.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I think if VAR checked it and decided nothing, then there should be no punishment.

It's already been mentioned that it wasn't checked by VAR who spent so long trying to decide if Mane was offside or not Pickfords challenge got brushed under the carpet.

 

[King7Eric]

He gave a pen. Thats why they checked for offside

No, an offside was given. Then they checked whether he may not be offside in which case it would be a penalty. But he was deemed to be offside by VAR as well and hence the official review ended there. The ref never gave a penalty.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Punished by playing the rest of the season in goal for Everton

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Not saying that recovery is shorter for an ACL year, I’m saying the overall pain level is typically less & for less time.

Ok, my mistake. If I was a footballer though I'd take a broken bone over an ACL injury everyday of the week. There's never been a more truer saying as short term pain for long time gain as in this case.

 

[POF]

The fact that he was going for the ball shouldn't matter one bit. Richarlison also went for the ball.

It was reckless, out of control and should have been punished.

I agree but it never is. You'll see plenty of red cards for tackles like Richarlison's. I can't remember one where a keeper was sent off for a tackle like that?

I remember there was an incident early in Jose's United career where he kept banging on about how United should have had a penalty and a red card against an opposition keeper for a similar lunge (against City?). Everyone laughed at him.

It's like when someone gets clattered right as they get a shot away. It's never given as a foul.

 

[sullydnl]

It's already been mentioned that it wasn't checked by VAR who spent so long trying to decide if Mane was offside or not Pickfords challenge got brushed under the carpet.

Tbf the Athletic later reported that it was checked.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

So there was a bit of confusion as to what happened.

 

[arnie_ni]

No, an offside was given. Then they checked whether he may not be offside in which case it would be a penalty. But he was deemed to be offside by VAR as well and hence the official review ended there. The ref never gave a penalty.

I could have sworn I seen Oliver point to the spot.

So he didnt give a pen in real time for that?

Bloody hell thats an awful decision.

Why was the lino giving offside on such a close decison? Thought they had to let it go?

 

[horsechoker]

Take away his ps5 when he gets it

 

[calodo2003]

Ok, my mistake. If I was a footballer though I'd take a broken bone over an ACL injury everyday of the week. There's never been a more truer saying as short term pain for long time gain as in this case.

No worries, brother. Broken bones are far easier to cope with physically & mentally & can be played on if they aren’t load bearing bones or one’s pain threshold is very high.

 

[Needham]

If vvd is out for 6 months the only proper punishment for Pickford should also be a 6 month ban. It was clearly a reckless tackle and should be punished harshly. Last season Romelu also tried to badly injure Greenwood. Tough punishments are required.

Interesting precedent. So if he'd killed him you would bring back the death penalty?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Two years ago he was a hero for same tackle.

https://www.sportbible.com/football...dan-pickford-said-to-mario-mandzukic-20180712

 

[Red_toad]

I think if VAR checked it and decided nothing, then there should be no punishment.

That's why VAR was brought in, it's a decisive end to any incident and to stop people complaining. Guess people just gotta moan about everything...

 

[Cassidy]

The title of thread is something about assault. I think that challenge is nastier with intent to do damage. Pickford's is clumsy with no intent. So I think it's relevant for comparison.

Pickfords is way more dangerous and reckless, intent isn't really the issue here.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Pickford should not be punsished based on the comedy and horror he is trying to portray each week. He is not a goalkeeper, but an actor struggling to find a relevant job in Liverpool. Poor sod.

But seriously though, only reason i bothered watching some Everton games last season was down to Pickford. Funny guy.

 

[Problem-free Philosophy]

Think there's a bit of an overreaction here to be honest. Was a terrible tackle and really should have been punished at the time with a red etc etc but it was clumsy rather than malicious imo. Just panicked, as he's prone to do.

I know that's no comfort to Pool or VVD but talk of retrospective 8 game bans etc is daft imo.

 

[VP89]

VAR is a complete fecking joke though, what is even the point of it?

Martial gets a red card and a three match ban for a scuffle and because Lamela is a play acting cnut. If hands to face is reason to send someone off then Lamela should have been sent off as well.

Here we have a career threatening tackle that also results in a nasty, long time injury and no action is taken. Not that i like sticking up for the dippers, but they are completely right here

The point of VAR is to give referees a second look with more angles.

The concept of VAR is brilliant but it's only going to be as good as the idiots who implement it.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Actually, an ACL tear is not that painful. There’s an initial searing pain, but it goes away relatively quickly. Broken bones are much more painful for a longer duration.

That's highly individual. Some people just walk off without much pain others, like me, are in excruciating pain for days.

 

[2mufc0]

Should be retrospective punishments for this level recklessness.

 

[King7Eric]

I could have sworn I seen Oliver point to the spot.

So he didnt give a pen in real time for that?

Bloody hell thats an awful decision.

Why was the lino giving offside on such a close decison? Thought they had to let it go?

The flag was raised by the assistant so Oliver blew his whistle to give the offside decision. Then the VAR check was performed to see if the player was offside or not because it could be a penalty if he was not.

Regarding the bolded part, the ball had gone out of play after Pickford's challenge, the phase of play was over so the assistant could raise his flag if he thought it was offside.

 

[90 + 5min]

That is red card all day long. I think that 3 games is a normal penalty. Players have been suspended in previous years so why not this time. Pickford were very lucky man and this is not first time, if I remember, that he is involved in wierd things.
Shockingly by TheFA, referees and VAR to miss it.

 

[baskinginthesun]

I could be wrong but I'm assuming VAR didn't call this out as this happened after VAR had deemed a Pool player offside and hence everything that happens after the first foul (i.e, offside) is no longer under VAR's jurisdiction. Is this right? Because otherwise I don't see how that isn't a red card after VAR has looked at it.

Thats what I thought too. This tackle is obviously emphasized by the fact that VVD was injured quite badly. However, this is still a bad, reckless tackle which, had VVD not been offside, is a red card and penalty.

The problem I have is that players get sent off for slaps to faces and the like after a play has ended because the ref has blown his whistle. So the same law should be applied for reckless tackles. I mean we saw Bilic get sent off a couple of weeks ago after the game has ended. These inconsistencies are really whats annoying about VAR.