Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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JohnnyKills

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so how long do we give the next manager?
Good question, and tbh none of us know the answer.

If Ole was replaced by Poch at, say, the end of November, I'd imagine Poch would get the rest of the season and the start of the next even if things didn't improve. Ole has been given the best part of two years, so i imagine the new guy would get something similar.

Nonetheless, it seems a bit silly to avoid getting rid of someone just because there's a chance the next guy in might do worse.
 

Leftback99

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But as you say, we don't know? what we do know is staring us in the face every weekend and most of us will and can form an opinion on that now. Ole has been here long enough for that. Liverpool sacked a very good coach in BR and took the gamble on Klopp and look at where they are now.
For every Klopp success story there are far more examples of it not working for other clubs (including ourselves as we've learnt the hard way for 7 years). It also took 3/4 years of excellent recruitment (not all Klopps work by the way) to actually see success.
 

Shark

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For every Klopp success story there are far more examples of it not working for other clubs (including ourselves as we've learnt the hard way for 7 years). It also took 3/4 years of excellent recruitment (not all Klopps work by the way) to actually see success.
Ole has already signed as many players now as it took Klopp to get Liverpool playing a quality brand of football and instill a machine like winning mentality. The only player I can convincingly say he's got right is Bruno and Ole deserves a lot of credit for that. Maguire was pretty much his VVD signing only he cost us around 20 million more. AWB and James also his signings for a combined 55 odd million.
 

Stepney73

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Good question, and tbh none of us know the answer.

If Ole was replaced by Poch at, say, the end of November, I'd imagine Poch would get the rest of the season and the start of the next even if things didn't improve. Ole has been given the best part of two years, so i imagine the new guy would get something similar.

Nonetheless, it seems a bit silly to avoid getting rid of someone just because there's a chance the next guy in might do worse.
that’s why I’m more for the half season assessment of a manager(there’s is no point sacking a manager just a few games in).if a manager is sacked say around Christmas then it gives his replacement a good half season to assess the squad.

well at a proper run club anyway.
 

pocco

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So I contributed negative aura by celebrating that my team won a game? that quite some messed up mental gymnastics.

you find my aura negative because you can’t happily support the team when it wins. It’s you who is interpreting that as negative.

you lot have have tied yourselves up in such conflicting knots, you’ve lost all sense of objectivity. It’s quite a crazy phenomenon to observe.
No it's because we've been crap so far and one win against a team that didn't do their homework and you're celebrating like we've won the PL and everything should be forgotten.

We seem to go round in circles with Ole. Good periods or just periods where we scrape wins, followed by bad periods, rinse and repeat. It feels like we've been here 3 times already, including the time we hired him after riding our luck vs PSG. After that we won only 2 games in the PL until the end of the season. Then we had a terrible start the following year and had I think our lowest points total ever in the PL at Christmas. But when the good results come, posters like you want it all to be forgotten.

The problem is good wins at this club are only worth something if they're consistent. We finished in 3rd last season, which is what some people hang their hat on with Ole. But if you look at the bigger picture, only 66 points in a year that the standards were low in the PL. Look back through PL history and 66 point is generally around 6th or 7th, which is where our 66 point in 18/19 got us. So surely you can see why people take these results and good periods with a huge fist full of salt and don't read too much into it.
 

Fanatic 00237

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This forum would be fine if people here aren't so concerned of proving their opinion to be the right one and everyone else is wrong. Whenever you search very old threads you'll find ton of wrong opinions on players and managers. It happens. You shouldn't care about your opinion being proven right or wrong when it comes to football. It's a very dynamic sport and things change quickly. Just comment on current topics and stop caring that much if you'll be proven wrong in the future.
Or if some people didn’t believe their opinion is the only valid one and any other poster who thinks differently is an idiot. There is a lot of that too and makes some discussions quite vile. You can have a civil debate with opposing views while agreeing to disagree.
 

Leftback99

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Ole has already signed as many players now as it took Klopp to get Liverpool playing a quality brand of football and instill a machine like winning mentality. The only player I can convincingly say he's got right is Bruno and Ole deserves a lot of credit for that. Maguire was pretty much his VVD signing only he cost us around 20 million more. AWB and James also his signings for a combined 55 odd million.
It's pointless focusing on the one success story of Klopp but I'm not sure they had a 'machine like winning mentality' even 3 years into his reign. It coincidently came when they bought better players.
Ideally we'd have a top analytics department like they do recommending players like Salah. We clearly don't though (or at least haven't in the past), which any new manager also has to deal with here.
 

el3mel

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Or if some people didn’t believe their opinion is the only valid one and any other poster who thinks differently is an idiot. There is a lot of that too and makes some discussions quite vile. You can have a civil debate with opposing views while agreeing to disagree.
Yeah agree. Unfortunately though, I know nothing of this will change, and Caf will remain a very hostile and unfriendly place to talk and discuss things in.
 

Fanatic 00237

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I agree and I do enjoy us winning but in the long term don't believe Ole will ever be good enough to achieve what we all ultimately want, which is for United to get back to the top of English football and be competitive again in Europe.

Edit: By the way that second bold part I agree with also, I've a friend just like that and it's never ok.
Fair enough. You have the right to that belief but then we don’t need to discuss after every poor result that he won’t achieve anything great. Unless we’re flirting with relegation we can let the season play itself out and debate on a match by match basis. Enjoying the wins and looking forward to bounce back after a loss. At least Ole is a nice bloke and a United legend whom I would think deserves our full support until he clearly fails. He hasn’t clearly failed yet, just doesn’t inspire enough confidence that he would do the job.
 

VP89

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I actually think we can all have reasonable debates in this thread despite what our views may be long term about Ole. 99% of us understand it doesn't make us any less of a supporter and we just want us to win games.

No one should be out here trying to get points about being right, we aren't taking bets here.

With that in mind I think we can reflect and discuss constructively going forward, if we just ignore one or two obvious wums.
 

MoskvaRed

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It's pointless focusing on the one success story of Klopp but I'm not sure they had a 'machine like winning mentality' even 3 years into his reign. It coincidently came when they bought better players.
Ideally we'd have a top analytics department like they do recommending players like Salah. We clearly don't though (or at least haven't in the past), which any new manager also has to deal with here.
I agree there are major structural issues at United but the Klopp comparison is disingenuous. He built one of the best sides in Europe at BVB Dortmund, winning two German titles and getting to a Champions League final. Ole’s CV is competing in Norway (League 2 equivalent?) and struggling in both the PL and Championship with Cardiff. Based on past performance, Klopp and pre-United Fergie were entitled to the benefit of the doubt whereas our Molde manager is guilty until proven innocent.
 

JohnnyKills

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that’s why I’m more for the half season assessment of a manager(there’s is no point sacking a manager just a few games in).if a manager is sacked say around Christmas then it gives his replacement a good half season to assess the squad.

well at a proper run club anyway.
Yeah, agree it's way too early to get rid now, particularly given the great job he did at the end of last year.
 

MrSingh2002

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Objectively speaking our squad is now younger and has less waste of space type players.

Unfortunately our summer window wasn't anywhere near as explosive as it could or should've been so it still feels like we're a year and two windows off having no deadwood around. If that were to happen it would be Oles biggest achievement so far.
 

Leftback99

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I agree there are major structural issues at United but the Klopp comparison is disingenuous. He built one of the best sides in Europe at BVB Dortmund, winning two German titles and getting to a Champions League final. Ole’s CV is competing in Norway (League 2 equivalent?) and struggling in both the PL and Championship with Cardiff. Based on past performance, Klopp and pre-United Fergie were entitled to the benefit of the doubt whereas our Molde manager is guilty until proven innocent.
I'm not trying to compare the two or say he'll be able to do the same.

Regardless of CVs Ole's current performance is 4 losses in 31 games. What relevance do Cardiff results from 6 years ago have?

Sacking him right now in the hope that the next guy can match be our Klopp under a completely different structure is just a gamble. Particularly if it's just a case of getting the man that's available with no real plan (Poch).
 

JohnnyKills

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I agree there are major structural issues at United but the Klopp comparison is disingenuous. He built one of the best sides in Europe at BVB Dortmund, winning two German titles and getting to a Champions League final. Ole’s CV is competing in Norway (League 2 equivalent?) and struggling in both the PL and Championship with Cardiff. Based on past performance, Klopp and pre-United Fergie were entitled to the benefit of the doubt whereas our Molde manager is guilty until proven innocent.
Yeah fair post.

The fact is, we're facing one of the most important seasons for years. With the pandemic and the impending recession, the improvement of lots of clubs around us and the dominance of Liverpool and City, it's crucial we don't mess this up. And we've entrusted the job to a guy with no top-level experience outside the two years he's spent with us.

So on one hand the guy has loads of goodwill, and rightly so. But on the other hand it's only natural that fans get jittery after a couple of dodgy results, even more so when there's a guy on the market with far more experience.

It doesn't make you a bad fan to want the club to achieve the most it possibly can.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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The games are coming fast now. Big test for us no doubt about it.
I still expect us to be third in the CL group and around 7-8 in the league after this run with two games per week.

If we do better then I am happy with Oles work for this time. It allows us to push for a higher position in the league then.
 

Mainoldo

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Objectively speaking our squad is now younger and has less waste of space type players.

Unfortunately our summer window wasn't anywhere near as explosive as it could or should've been so it still feels like we're a year and two windows off having no deadwood around. If that were to happen it would be Oles biggest achievement so far.
Ive changed me mind on this. No one was paying £108m for Sancho so it was always going to be a disappointment. In general it was an okay window. We added depth which was what we needed. We pretty much changed the whole midfield and attack on Saturday and won. We couldn’t do that last season with our bench.
 

JohnnyKills

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Ive changed me mind on this. No one was paying £108m for Sancho so it was always going to be a disappointment. In general it was an okay window. We added depth which was what we needed. We pretty much changed the whole midfield and attack on Saturday and won. We couldn’t do that last season with our bench.
Yeah, agreed.
 

DRJosh

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Ive changed me mind on this. No one was paying £108m for Sancho so it was always going to be a disappointment. In general it was an okay window. We added depth which was what we needed. We pretty much changed the whole midfield and attack on Saturday and won. We couldn’t do that last season with our bench.
But shouldn't there have been a plan B for an alternative explosive type of player (even if not in the sancho mould) and added reinforcements to our rather flimsy and inconsistent defence? I thought it was a disappointing window in the larger scheme of things relative to how other top 6 teams performed transfer wise. We are also paper-thin in terms of overall squad quality beyond the first team.
 

sammsky1

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But shouldn't there have been a plan B for an alternative explosive type of player (even if not in the sancho mould) and added reinforcements to our rather flimsy and inconsistent defence? I thought it was a disappointing window in the larger scheme of things relative to how other top 6 teams performed transfer wise. We are also paper-thin in terms of overall squad quality beyond the first team.
That’s not true though is it?

We played with Fred, McT and Mata yesterday who didn’t get a look in post lockdown because first teamers were unavailable or being punished.

There is good depth now at GK, fullback, midfields and striker. Just lacking quality cover at CB and on the wings. Hope that is resolved by start of next season. 2 young new wingers may solve the wings and Mengi may solve CB. Else we invest.
 

hungrywing

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No it's because we've been crap so far and one win against a team that didn't do their homework and you're celebrating like we've won the PL and everything should be forgotten.

We seem to go round in circles with Ole. Good periods or just periods where we scrape wins, followed by bad periods, rinse and repeat. It feels like we've been here 3 times already, including the time we hired him after riding our luck vs PSG. After that we won only 2 games in the PL until the end of the season. Then we had a terrible start the following year and had I think our lowest points total ever in the PL at Christmas. But when the good results come, posters like you want it all to be forgotten.

The problem is good wins at this club are only worth something if they're consistent. We finished in 3rd last season, which is what some people hang their hat on with Ole. But if you look at the bigger picture, only 66 points in a year that the standards were low in the PL. Look back through PL history and 66 point is generally around 6th or 7th, which is where our 66 point in 18/19 got us. So surely you can see why people take these results and good periods with a huge fist full of salt and don't read too much into it.
But in that season he was also saddled with the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Pereira, etc. He's inherited a terrible squad compared to what he played in.

I don't think there's anyone who would disagree he looks second-tier at best regarding tactics. We saw that under a more tactically versed manager (Jose) it could get around 15 more points.

But he does know the mind of a true winner. The mentality of sacrifice.

For me personally it remains an extremely tough decision between those two elements: 1. he's lacking vs other more progressive and/or top-tier managers, so there's a built-in ceiling to his ability vs 2. he knows the mentality of a true winner who sacrifices everything (money, partying, status, personal relationships, petty grudges etc) for the win.

#1 is inherently potentially short term. As long as Dumbwad and Drudge are still here, success under a better tactical manager is potentially limited to however long the manager stays; it's inherently unstable. #2 is an intangible thing that exists only in extremely particular top-tier organizations and it's something that money can't really buy and that, in fact, trying to buy with money actually destroys.

We won't easily find another manager who understands #2. Klopp is probably the only other visible one in top-tier football right now.

(Obviously combining 1 and 2 like Klopp is the ideal.)

Bottom line, IMO we need to see what Ole can do with a squad that doesn't have the likes of Pogba in it. If someone told you that we would have to:

A. wait for three more years but
B. we'd still be kind of moaning that Ole's clearly not up to scruff tactics-wise BUT
C. we'd be truly competitive again with the Bayerns/Reals, and be very clearly enamored with the right personalities at the squad

Would you take it?
 

lysglimt

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He has relegation in his CV and the reasoning behind appointing David Moyes was that he saved a sure relegation side and built them up to become one of the top 6 teams. I'm sure that went well. Also yeah these aren't facts, just opinions.
He took over a Cardiff-side that was crap - couldn't save them (which would have been a miracle) - yes that is fact.
 

lysglimt

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Money spent is not equal to money spent well. Still, I agree with you. This squad should not be 33 points from the top.

The militant Ole fans want to have it both ways. If he succeeds, he is a genius. But if he fails, the fault is Woodward's and Glazers' (who are admittedly incompetent). It's a lovely position to adopt; the goal posts can be forever in motion.
And the other side doesn't do it exactly the same way ?
 

CG1010

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Ole has already signed as many players now as it took Klopp to get Liverpool playing a quality brand of football and instill a machine like winning mentality. The only player I can convincingly say he's got right is Bruno and Ole deserves a lot of credit for that. Maguire was pretty much his VVD signing only he cost us around 20 million more. AWB and James also his signings for a combined 55 odd million.
That's nowhere near true though.. but carry on
 

lysglimt

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Bale on the bench and Spurs attack have already created 3 open play goals. Ole will finish the job with Liverpool and our ex-manager winning premier league and European trophies. Meanwhile lucky penalties, set-pieces or a counter-attack here or there... Oh, we must be grateful for Ole saving us.
How much did Spurs win last night - I stopped looking at 81 minutes ? Did it finish 3-0 or did they add a few more goals at the end ?
 

roonster09

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How much did Spurs win last night - I stopped looking at 81 minutes ? Did it finish 3-0 or did they add a few more goals at the end ?
Davinson Sanchez scored, so I think it was 4-2.
 

Bobcat

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It's pointless focusing on the one success story of Klopp but I'm not sure they had a 'machine like winning mentality' even 3 years into his reign. It coincidently came when they bought better players.
Ideally we'd have a top analytics department like they do recommending players like Salah. We clearly don't though (or at least haven't in the past), which any new manager also has to deal with here.
This. Using Klopp as a benchmark then pretty much anyone is going to look bad, but even he needed time to get things right. When people talk about him transforming Liverpool, they seem to (conveniently) forget that he did so by selling and buying a lot of players. Not only has their recruitment been exceptional, but they've also managed to get decent fees for their perceived deadwood

For example in 16/17 they sold Benteke, Ibe, Allen and Skrtel for a combined total of 70 million and bought Mane and Wijnaldum for a combined total of 67 million and in 16/17 they basically funded the purchases of VVD and Salah by selling Coutinho. Now Coutinho is obviously not deadwood, but they got a very hefty price for him

Say what you want about FSG, but their track record with the Red Sox and Liverpool show they know how to run a sporting organization and they are heads and shoulders above our own useless owners who only seem concerned with adding a steady stream of revenue to their pockets
 

Listar

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:lol: I don’t know why this myth keeps being played out among our fans.We have the third most expensive squad in world football. It isn’t a player issue it is a managerial one. If we had Pep, Guardiola or Pochettino in the same time frame as Ole, with the same backing, we would have challenged/won the league,play much better football and certainly be more competitive in European competition. When you see what teams like leceister , Everton, Spurs and even Leeds are doing with much less you have to understand that a good manager can be doing much better with this team.
You made some good points in there. But I still feel if we lost 3-0 to West ham and 1-0 to Aston Villa you will be calling for the manager's head.
 

SteveW

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That’s not true though is it?

We played with Fred, McT and Mata yesterday who didn’t get a look in post lockdown because first teamers were unavailable or being punished.

There is good depth now at GK, fullback, midfields and striker. Just lacking quality cover at CB and on the wings. Hope that is resolved by start of next season. 2 young new wingers may solve the wings and Mengi may solve CB. Else we invest.
Ole is doing his best to build a good squad with what the Glazers will let him do. I think he's doing a good job in the circumstances. The progression is obvious for anyone willing to see it and the squad is so youthful now that it will naturally improve as players mature.

I've generally given up posting on here. I don't know what you've posted over the last few pages but you seem to be under attack for backing Ole and overcelebrating a good win? I dont quite understand how a United supporter can be seen as gloating against other United supporters. That says enough about the type of posters on here these days.

2020 has been a pretty damn good year so far. We've performed pretty much on a par with teams like Liverpool and City who seemed miles out of reach previously. And we've played some beautiful football. We've a young squad who is fully behind their manager. Looking from first principles you'd have to accept that Ole is doing well.

But people don't do that anymore. Some seem committed to Ole being a bad manager and desperate to be right about it. But I speak to almost nobody in real life who holds this view.
 

SteveW

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Can someone tell me how Pochetino's dismal record against the top 6 shows him to be a better tactician than Ole?

And also what he achieved in football that makes him the right manager for Manchester United?
 

lysglimt

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Can someone tell me how Pochetino's dismal record against the top 6 shows him to be a better tactician than Ole?

And also what he achieved in football that makes him the right manager for Manchester United?
I can understand (even if I dont agree with it) that a lot of people questions OGS - but the fascination with Pochettino I simply can't understand. The guy has done nothing more than creating 1 good Spurs-side for like 18 months - and then letting the same team completely fall to pieces. That's it. I can easily think of 10 managers I would prefer to Pochettino
 

aditya826

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. But it's interesting that you're unable to separate ownership from team, a factor you can do exactly 0 about, besides bring everyone elses mood around you down to your own miserable level. Plenty of us don't like the club ownership, I myself have been vocal about this. It's still posible to love the team, the staff and the players.
Manchester United can't be simply reduced to present composition of team, playing staff, coaching staff or the tea lady, or the kitman. The problem with you is that you reduce the club to people who run the club, while the club is bigger and grander than ephemeral individuals running it. You demean the club by making it all about mortal and corporal. And you demand the same kind of conformity and subservience by the people who disagree with you. The people who profit in all this exercise are the Glazers. Those who are happy to barter Manchester United's future in exchange for transient glories (like beating Brighton or "that night in Paris") will never understand the ideals of Non-cooperation and "Satyagraha". And in your ignorance and delusion you chastise the dissenters for "being toxic", "miserable", "joyless". And by doing that you run another thousand miles to gratify the Glazers. I personally take it as a part of the game.

The snowflakes you're refering to (me included) mostly point out how negativity only breeds negativity and no solutions. If any of my employees walked around all day complaining I'd strongly suggest they find themselves a new job, you don't want that kind of energy around you.
Making dissenting employees a scapegoat for you failing at your basic job description as a manager is exactly how you run a company to the ground. Not a surprise at all you'd do just what the Glazers do, and that is why I don't take your assertion of disliking the owners seriously.

Those holding arbitrary power who have maximum authority and least accountability are the ones who are uniquely, specifically and exclusively responsible for creating a positive culture and a friendly ecosystem. Not the ones who just have a keyboard. Heliocentrists of the past have been beholden to the absurd responsibilities of not disturbing social order, for their courageous refusal to follow the orthodox Church. Needless to say there aren't any merits in any of these accusations. And humanity as a whole has much to gain in lending a ear or two to those naysayers and dissenters instead of chastising them, excommunicating them, or even schadenfreuding over them during their public beheading (apparently none of these acts are toxic at all). In annals of history those "imposters of pretended patriotism" will be forgotten. While those who rage and rave to "Guard the nation" from them will be remembered as revolutionary heroes.
 

SteveW

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I can understand (even if I dont agree with it) that a lot of people questions OGS - but the fascination with Pochettino I simply can't understand. The guy has done nothing more than creating 1 good Spurs-side for like 18 months - and then letting the same team completely fall to pieces. That's it. I can easily think of 10 managers I would prefer to Pochettino
I actually quite like Poch and wouldn't have been against him before Ole arrived. We needed someone to develop youngsters, improve the spirit and improve the quality of the football. But Ole's already done all that. Ole has made us a better team and I believe we will make top 3 without any problems this season. Barring a couple of games while the players were gaining fitness, our results since Bruno signed back that up. Ole's already done all the stuff Poch could have potentially have done and probably done it better.

If we're now talking about taking the next steps under someone with a real winning mentality or a tactician to win big games and trophies I'd take Ole every time over Poch. He's got a way better record against the top 6 and he's already got us to the latter stages of 3 cup competitions. Once the squad is reasonably fit and fresh I wouldn't fear any big team under Ole. I've never had that impression with Poch. Spurs were routinely whipped by the top 6 under him and fluked into one final, where they flopped. That's it.
 
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Kostov

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Can someone tell me how Pochetino's dismal record against the top 6 shows him to be a better tactician than Ole?

And also what he achieved in football that makes him the right manager for Manchester United?
That's really irrelevant imo, since neither Ole has achieved anything.

However what is the point of appointing Poch when imo he is also not better than either Klopp or Pep? If we are to replace Ole we should target someone who can beat those two, otherwise it's pointless.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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That's really irrelevant imo, since neither Ole has achieved anything.

However what is the point of appointing Poch when imo he is also not better than either Klopp or Pep? If we are to replace Ole we should target someone who can beat those two, otherwise it's pointless.
We don't currently have a team that can beat those two though which Ole is trying to do. Ole is rebuilding the team and making it strong enough to compete with the best. If he was to be sacked we would need a manager that can do this - rebuild a team that can challenge the best and Poch is the best manager available that has proven to do so.
 

aditya826

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He took over a Cardiff-side that was crap - couldn't save them (which would have been a miracle) - yes that is fact.
He took over a side which had recently lifted the Championship trophy and were never in relegation places until he was appointed. Solskjaer then finished the season by taking them to 20th position. He then used his agent connection to recruit his agent's players, barely played them, and almost threatened relegating Cardiff City from the championship before he was sacked.
I'm sure that side was crap but what uniquely contributed to their crapness was the addition of Solskjaer.

But of course facts have a funny definition when your world is under the sand.
 

Ludens the Red

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Manchester United can't be simply reduced to present composition of team, playing staff, coaching staff or the tea lady, or the kitman. The problem with you is that you reduce the club to people who run the club, while the club is bigger and grander than ephemeral individuals running it. You demean the club by making it all about mortal and corporal. And you demand the same kind of conformity and subservience by the people who disagree with you. The people who profit in all this exercise are the Glazers. Those who are happy to barter Manchester United's future in exchange for transient glories (like beating Brighton or "that night in Paris") will never understand the ideals of Non-cooperation and "Satyagraha". And in your ignorance and delusion you chastise the dissenters for "being toxic", "miserable", "joyless". And by doing that you run another thousand miles to gratify the Glazers. I personally take it as a part of the game.



Making dissenting employees a scapegoat for you failing at your basic job description as a manager is exactly how you run a company to the ground. Not a surprise at all you'd do just what the Glazers do, and that is why I don't take your assertion of disliking the owners seriously.

Those holding arbitrary power who have maximum authority and least accountability are the ones who are uniquely, specifically and exclusively responsible for creating a positive culture and a friendly ecosystem. Not the ones who just have a keyboard. Heliocentrists of the past have been beholden to the absurd responsibilities of not disturbing social order, for their courageous refusal to follow the orthodox Church. Needless to say there aren't any merits in any of these accusations. And humanity as a whole has much to gain in lending a ear or two to those naysayers and dissenters instead of chastising them, excommunicating them, or even schadenfreuding over them during their public beheading (apparently none of these acts are toxic at all). In annals of history those "imposters of pretended patriotism" will be forgotten. While those who rage and rave to "Guard the nation" from them will be remembered as revolutionary heroes.
George Clooneys Oscar acceptance speech?
 

Tom Cato

Godt nyttår!
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
7,565
Manchester United can't be simply reduced to present composition of team, playing staff, coaching staff or the tea lady, or the kitman. The problem with you is that you reduce the club to people who run the club, while the club is bigger and grander than ephemeral individuals running it. You demean the club by making it all about mortal and corporal. And you demand the same kind of conformity and subservience by the people who disagree with you. The people who profit in all this exercise are the Glazers. Those who are happy to barter Manchester United's future in exchange for transient glories (like beating Brighton or "that night in Paris") will never understand the ideals of Non-cooperation and "Satyagraha". And in your ignorance and delusion you chastise the dissenters for "being toxic", "miserable", "joyless". And by doing that you run another thousand miles to gratify the Glazers. I personally take it as a part of the game.

Making dissenting employees a scapegoat for you failing at your basic job description as a manager is exactly how you run a company to the ground. Not a surprise at all you'd do just what the Glazers do, and that is why I don't take your assertion of disliking the owners seriously.

Those holding arbitrary power who have maximum authority and least accountability are the ones who are uniquely, specifically and exclusively responsible for creating a positive culture and a friendly ecosystem. Not the ones who just have a keyboard. Heliocentrists of the past have been beholden to the absurd responsibilities of not disturbing social order, for their courageous refusal to follow the orthodox Church. Needless to say there aren't any merits in any of these accusations. And humanity as a whole has much to gain in lending a ear or two to those naysayers and dissenters instead of chastising them, excommunicating them, or even schadenfreuding over them during their public beheading (apparently none of these acts are toxic at all). In annals of history those "imposters of pretended patriotism" will be forgotten. While those who rage and rave to "Guard the nation" from them will be remembered as revolutionary heroes.

First off: I swear you write this with quill and ink wearing a fedora and pay someone to transcribe it to a computer. More importantly however, you're missing the point a bit. This is a discussion forum. You will have your opinion challenged one way or another, that is the entire point of this place.

Calling me delued is a bit over the top, no? Listen, you're barking up the wrong tree. You come here and you spread negativity all around you, everything is terrible, the manager is bad, the player is bad, the owners are bad and you dislike everything. That is your right, but that kind of attitude is not constructive, nor does it accomplish anything. If that is part of the game to you, then you are not someone I want anywhere near my circle. It's like showing up to work trying to make the best of your day and you bump into some troglodyte by the watercooler at 7am when you just want peace and quiet, who then immediately goes on a long rant about how bad the bosses are and how terrible the company is and especially how YOU should feel the same. It is exhausting to deal with people like that.

I mention this becuase you are whining at the wrong people. We're fans. We can't do anything for you. The people you have a grievance with are not part of this sphere. You might as well stand in front of the wailing wall and complain about dinner. The wall can't do anything for you and nor can this forum.

The appropriate adress for your negativity is:

Manchester United,
c/o Joel Glazer
Sir Matt Busby Way,
Old Trafford,
Manchester,
M16 0RA
England

A final thought: If you come here and you whine and complain that people are happy we beat Newcastle. What gives you the right to be happy about any victory the team achieves in the future? To me you lose the right to take pride in the teams accomplishments if you can't enjoy the small ones. I'm not going to reply to you further, it's 4 minutes of my day I'd like back.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
13,966
Can someone tell me how Pochetino's dismal record against the top 6 shows him to be a better tactician than Ole?

And also what he achieved in football that makes him the right manager for Manchester United?
He gets better in people's minds the longer he isn't managing. It's a blinkered view that we'd get the 16/17 version of Spurs rather than anything else which was nowhere near as impressive.
 
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