Iniesta vs Silva

giorno

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There's not much between any of those players in terms of individual quality imo, all great players. most of the gaps that start appearing are when you get into comparing team accomplishments and there's always an element of right place/right time for that.
I think there is actually. Xavi, Zidane and Laudrup were phenomenal floor and ceiling raisers. Iniesta was a phenomenal ceiling raiser, but not much of a floor raiser imho. If Iniesta was your best player, you weren't gonna win much. The other 3 all lead their teams to success as the best players
Euro 2012? Iniesta was easily the best player in the tournament and toyed with Italy in the group and final games. Iniesta was a truly incredible player. Euro 2012 is actually an illustration of how much better than Silva he was.
I disagree about that honestly, but nonetheless, i was talking about being the team's best player, the one the team is built around, not the best performer

Xavi was a totally different player. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Xavi and Iniesta had different roles in the team. The role Iniesta was far closer to the role of Laudrup or Zidane than Xavi's. To me it doesn't make much sense to compare them. There's no evidence from Xavi's early career that he would've thrived in the advanced role Iniesta played (there's also no evidence for the opposite). Spain's just lucky to have had both.
He wasn't really. I mean, he was more similar to Zidane than Iniesta. Laudrup...yeah ok

Iniesta didn't play a more advanced role than Xavi. But sure, Xavi also wasn't as great before Iniesta came in

I just look at the respective careers and it's obvious to me that Iniesta was an accessory to Xavi more than the other way around. Like comparing a great conductor to a first violin
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Silva's a great player.

Iniesta is levels above him though. I don't think it's close at all.
 

Caesar2290

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Euro 2012? Iniesta was easily the best player in the tournament and toyed with Italy in the group and final games. Iniesta was a truly incredible player. Euro 2012 is actually an illustration of how much better than Silva he was.

Xavi was a totally different player. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Xavi and Iniesta had different roles in the team. The role Iniesta was far closer to the role of Laudrup or Zidane than Xavi's. To me it doesn't make much sense to compare them. There's no evidence from Xavi's early career that he would've thrived in the advanced role Iniesta played (there's also no evidence for the opposite). Spain's just lucky to have had both.
Absolutely this! It should be Iniesta vs Zidane/Laudrup and Xavi vs Scholes/Pirlo/Fabregas
 

Web of Bissaka

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To put it simply:

Charmander -> Charmeleon -> Charizard
Mata -> Silva -> Iniesta
:lol: So you're the one that started this.

Why Fire though? Usually it's for striker, shooter and aggressive types of players.
Flying or better yet Water maybe is more suitable, because their movements, playmaking, dribbles and passing are all flowing. Their shootings too have good techniques instead of raw power. Hmm.. maybe grass types suits them more because physically they seems "fragile" or "weak" but turns out on the floor, they have mad skills, precision tachniques with their "vines" and "leaves" passes and tough as hell the higher they evolve.
 

meamth

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Iniesta is the better maestro,
Silva is the better athlete.

Silva is also very robust, despite his size. But no disrespect to Silva, Iniesta is the better player.
 

meamth

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:lol: So you're the one that started this.

Why Fire though? Usually it's for striker, shooter and aggressive types of players.
Flying or better yet Water maybe is more suitable, because their movements, playmaking, dribbles and passing are all flowing. Their shootings too have good techniques instead of raw power. Hmm.. maybe grass types suits them more because physically they seems "fragile" or "weak" but turns out on the floor, they have mad skills, precision tachniques with their "vines" and "leaves" passes and tough as hell the higher they evolve.
Hmm. I thought I'm the only nerd with love and passion for football in caf.
 

tomaldinho1

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:lol: So you're the one that started this.

Why Fire though? Usually it's for striker, shooter and aggressive types of players.
Flying or better yet Water maybe is more suitable, because their movements, playmaking, dribbles and passing are all flowing. Their shootings too have good techniques instead of raw power. Hmm.. maybe grass types suits them more because physically they seems "fragile" or "weak" but turns out on the floor, they have mad skills, precision tachniques with their "vines" and "leaves" passes and tough as hell the higher they evolve.
Haha I just went for the better known types
Personally I'd see them as Abra, Kadabra & Alakazam!
 

Abe144

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Iniesta is the better player. One of the best midfielders of all time. Not really a fair comparison. Having said that Silva is one of the best midfielders of his generation. It's a shame we didn't see more of him at false 9 for Spain
 

Pep's Suit

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How Iniesta didnt win Ballon dor in 2010 I'll never know.
You replace Messi in that team with pretty much any other player and Barca don't win those CL titles. Yeah, Iniesta and Xavi were amazing but it was Messi who made the difference.
 

Lay

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Iniesta and it’s not close for me. His contribution in big games is right up there with the best
 

Deery

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Can't take you serious considering your downplaying Xavi in your previous post. Maybe you would of been smart enough to know my post was getting to the point that Iniesta is a better player then Silva in my opinion.
I wasn’t being serious mate, I got your point. Just weird to see it done through Pokémon..
 

cyberman

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You replace Messi in that team with pretty much any other player and Barca don't win those CL titles. Yeah, Iniesta and Xavi were amazing but it was Messi who made the difference.
They dominated International football without Messi?
 

Lord SInister

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As far as I know Iniestia is the only player to have been MOM in a WC final, CL final and Euro championship final, probably spanish cup final too if you want to include that. Not to mention scoring winner in 2010 WC final. One of the all time great midfielders, Silva doesnt come close to him.

How Iniesta didnt win Ballon dor in 2010 I'll never know.
tbh Iniesta was fairly injured for a part of season 2009/10.
And Messi while not winning either of WC/UCL, was entering his peak version, scoring and assisting at a rate of one goal contribution per 75 min. I know stats can be lying, but a goal contribution every 75 min, is no lying.
Plus if it wasn't for Messi, most probably it would have gone to Sneijder.
 

footballistic orgasm

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They dominated International football without Messi?
They weren't creating much and were winning a lot of games with 1 (and sometimes 2) goal(s). In the course of a 6-7 games tournament, that wasn't a problem, but in the course of a whole season, i doubt they would have won everything Barca won. Messi was clearly the difference in attack for Barca which made them score a lot more, Dani Alves too.
And for the NT, you can't ignore the impact that Ramos, Cassillas and Alonso had also in the team.

So saying that Xavi and Iniesta dominated international football without Messi, is just ignoring a whole lot of context
 

cyberman

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They weren't creating much and were winning a lot of games with 1 (and sometimes 2) goal(s). In the course of a 6-7 games tournament, that wasn't a problem, but in the course of a whole season, i doubt they would have won everything Barca won. Messi was clearly the difference in attack for Barca which made them score a lot more, Dani Alves too.
And for the NT, you can't ignore the impact that Ramos, Cassillas and Alonso had also in the team.

So saying that Xavi and Iniesta dominated international football without Messi, is just ignoring a whole lot of context
They did dominate though? Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, Villa, Pique, Pedro Puyol.. I mean
 

bosnian_red

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Iniesta is Zidane level, David Silva a few levels below that while still being brilliant himself. Just not all time football legendary level.
 

adexkola

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They weren't creating much and were winning a lot of games with 1 (and sometimes 2) goal(s). In the course of a 6-7 games tournament, that wasn't a problem, but in the course of a whole season, i doubt they would have won everything Barca won. Messi was clearly the difference in attack for Barca which made them score a lot more, Dani Alves too.
And for the NT, you can't ignore the impact that Ramos, Cassillas and Alonso had also in the team.

So saying that Xavi and Iniesta dominated international football without Messi, is just ignoring a whole lot of context
That was because other sides parked the bus and refused to do anything. So all Spain needed to do was score 1 or 2 goals. When teams took the game to Spain the games were very entertaining. But either way I can't think of a more dominating side in international football over the last 20 years.
 

Hammondo

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They weren't creating much and were winning a lot of games with 1 (and sometimes 2) goal(s). In the course of a 6-7 games tournament, that wasn't a problem, but in the course of a whole season, i doubt they would have won everything Barca won. Messi was clearly the difference in attack for Barca which made them score a lot more, Dani Alves too.
And for the NT, you can't ignore the impact that Ramos, Cassillas and Alonso had also in the team.

So saying that Xavi and Iniesta dominated international football without Messi, is just ignoring a whole lot of context
You are joking right? They made the other teams look silly, they walked matches.
 

sullydnl

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Spain were arguably the most dominant national team of all time, at worst being the second most dominant.

In fact they were so dominant that teams fundamentally adjusted their approach in facing them to a degree that was unprecedented in my lifetime of watching international football. Spain's approach didn't make those games dull but rather the combination of their approach and the countermeasures their opponents were fearfully forced to adopt (deep defence, as many men behind the ball as possible, nullify Spain at whatever cost to your own attack).

It's a problem few teams have faced as few teams were good enough to provoke that sort of reaction from their opponents. So it seems rather churlish to then claim that the resulting lack of goals was down to them not being dominant enough.
 

Morty_

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Spain were arguably the most dominant national team of all time, at worst being the second most dominant.

In fact they were so dominant that teams fundamentally adjusted their approach in facing them to a degree that was unprecedented in my lifetime of watching international football. Spain's approach didn't make those games dull but rather the combination of their approach and the countermeasures their opponents were fearfully forced to adopt (deep defence, as many men behind the ball as possible, nullify Spain at whatever cost to your own attack).

It's a problem few teams have faced as few teams were good enough to provoke that sort of reaction from their opponents. So it seems rather churlish to then claim that the resulting lack of goals was down to them not being dominant enough.
Heck, even teams that were normally dominant like Germany, had to sit somewhat low against them in 2010, and they were on fire in the games before, but even they couldn`t really go toe to toe with that Spain-side.
 

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Kind of shows you how the PL hasn't always had the cream of the crop in terms of talent, when Silva is one of the all time PL greats but sometimes couldn't get into the Spain national team at his peak ahead of players who mostly played in Spain. He's not touching Iniesta for me.
 

adexkola

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Spain were arguably the most dominant national team of all time, at worst being the second most dominant.

In fact they were so dominant that teams fundamentally adjusted their approach in facing them to a degree that was unprecedented in my lifetime of watching international football. Spain's approach didn't make those games dull but rather the combination of their approach and the countermeasures their opponents were fearfully forced to adopt (deep defence, as many men behind the ball as possible, nullify Spain at whatever cost to your own attack).

It's a problem few teams have faced as few teams were good enough to provoke that sort of reaction from their opponents. So it seems rather churlish to then claim that the resulting lack of goals was down to them not being dominant enough.
Exactly
 

footballistic orgasm

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They did dominate though? Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, Villa, Pique, Pedro Puyol.. I mean
Yes (though Villa joined Barca after the WC), along with Cassillas, Ramos, Xabi Alonso and Cesc and Silva (to a lesser extent) who were all essential to the team too.

You are joking right? They made the other teams look silly, they walked matches.
That was because other sides parked the bus and refused to do anything. So all Spain needed to do was score 1 or 2 goals. When teams took the game to Spain the games were very entertaining. But either way I can't think of a more dominating side in international football over the last 20 years.
Yes I agree that they were the most dominant team the way they controlled the games.
Teams parked buses against them, but so did they against Barca but the difference why Barça created much more and scored much more was Messi (and Alves too to a lesser extent), that was the point i was making.
 

Falcow

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tbh Iniesta was fairly injured for a part of season 2009/10.
And Messi while not winning either of WC/UCL, was entering his peak version, scoring and assisting at a rate of one goal contribution per 75 min. I know stats can be lying, but a goal contribution every 75 min, is no lying.
Plus if it wasn't for Messi, most probably it would have gone to Sneijder.
Fair enough, good assessment.
 

giorno

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Heck, even teams that were normally dominant like Germany, had to sit somewhat low against them in 2010, and they were on fire in the games before, but even they couldn`t really go toe to toe with that Spain-side.
They were without Muller, and the game was ultimately close, despite spain's territorial and possession dominance(which anyways was fine for germany which was mostly a transition and counterattacking side). For all the dominance Spain still needed San Iker to win the world cup :drool:

Also no, they weren't the most dominant national side ever. That title belong to either 1970 Brazil, or the Pelé-Garrincha sides, unbeaten in over 60 games
 

cyberman

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Yes (though Villa joined Barca after the WC), along with Cassillas, Ramos, Xabi Alonso and Cesc and Silva (to a lesser extent) who were all essential to the team too.





Yes I agree that they were the most dominant team the way they controlled the games.
Teams parked buses against them, but so did they against Barca but the difference why Barça created much more and scored much more was Messi (and Alves too to a lesser extent), that was the point i was making.
I understand but youre telling me that i cant claim Barca players were the dominant force for Spain then argue that it was all Messi that won the CLs? Surely you see the contrdiction?
 

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I believe I recall there was once a discussion on who is better, Mata or Silva. Whilst most would recognise Silva as the superior player, if Silva was substituted with Iniesta, there would be no discussion. Although lacking in goal output, his overall play was outstanding. I'd argue that his overall play was on Messi's level, but his numbers weren't (not even close). Iniesta had brilliant dribbling, good acceleration and was very nimble. He was also a great passer and link-up player. Silva were also most of these things, but he would always be a level below in most aspects of their games. That is not a disservice to Silva, as he was truly a brilliant player; it was just that Iniesta is one of the best I have seen, and one of the greatest players of the last two decades.
 

Threesus

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I believe I recall there was once a discussion on who is better, Mata or Silva. Whilst most would recognise Silva as the superior player, if Silva was substituted with Iniesta, there would be no discussion. Although lacking in goal output, his overall play was outstanding. I'd argue that his overall play was on Messi's level, but his numbers weren't (not even close). Iniesta had brilliant dribbling, good acceleration and was very nimble. He was also a great passer and link-up player. Silva were also most of these things, but he would always be a level below in most aspects of their games. That is not a disservice to Silva, as he was truly a brilliant player; it was just that Iniesta is one of the best I have seen, and one of the greatest players of the last two decades.
I think there would have been an argument, especially when Mata was at Chelsea. Think he got like 19 goals and 35 assists in one season. I am not sure even Bruno would be able to get those assist numbers. While Mata has won more european trophies, Silva has absolutely bossed the EPL. If we had maybe built the attack around him when he arrived here, things could have been different.
 

padr81

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I believe I recall there was once a discussion on who is better, Mata or Silva. Whilst most would recognise Silva as the superior player, if Silva was substituted with Iniesta, there would be no discussion. Although lacking in goal output, his overall play was outstanding. I'd argue that his overall play was on Messi's level, but his numbers weren't (not even close). Iniesta had brilliant dribbling, good acceleration and was very nimble. He was also a great passer and link-up player. Silva were also most of these things, but he would always be a level below in most aspects of their games. That is not a disservice to Silva, as he was truly a brilliant player; it was just that Iniesta is one of the best I have seen, and one of the greatest players of the last two decades.
As the Pokemon post says Silva is kinda like the guy in the middle of Mata and Iniesta. He plays like Mata only he's tougher, works harder and while I'd have them almost the same technically, both mentally and physcially Silva was worlds above Mata (Mata had 2 amazing seasons where he was at peak Silva level just couldn't sustain it). I think its fair to say theres merit in and Iniesta vs Silva discussion, merit in a Silva vs Mata discussion and absolutely no merit in Iniesta vs Mata discussion, simply because most people would say Iniesta is a level above Silva and Silva the same above Mata. Mata's peak seasons though was almost as good as either of them.
 

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As the Pokemon post says Silva is kinda like the guy in the middle of Mata and Iniesta. He plays like Mata only he's tougher, works harder and while I'd have them almost the same technically, both mentally and physcially Silva was worlds above Mata (Mata had 2 amazing seasons where he was at peak Silva level just couldn't sustain it). I think its fair to say theres merit in and Iniesta vs Silva discussion, merit in a Silva vs Mata discussion and absolutely no merit in Iniesta vs Mata discussion, simply because most people would say Iniesta is a level above Silva and Silva the same above Mata. Mata's peak seasons though was almost as good as either of them.
Fair enough. Not diasagreeing much with this.