3rd restart
F1 2020 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
What happened to Bottas?
I have all but given up hope of competitive F1 racing at the front and wasn't watching. Heard Grosjean had an awful crash, is he ok?
He has some minor burns and suspected broken ribs, it was a horrific crash, life saved by the HALO
Bottas having another bad race.
not the most exciting of races after the 3rd restart, in fact its just pain boring !
can see Lewis pitting and going for the fastest lap
WTF car is on fire , STOP NOW.
SC
what were racing point doing, should have stopped him long before it caught fire.
WTF is going on Norris has a guy running across the track in front on him.
fitting end for this race, behind a SC.
Bad crash, car flipped over another car on fire and to top it off, guy runs across the track in front of Lando !!
Bad crash, car flipped over another car on fire and to top it off, guy runs across the track in front of Lando !!
What happened with Grojea? Did he get moved or did he cut off the other driver?
Happy everyone has finished this race safe and sound.
Crazy crazy race
For me, all the talk about how this is a testament to how great and safe the cars are after Grosjeans crash is just PR or terribly naive.
Yes, the halo is great and probably saved his life. But there should no be a car going through a barrier, it needs serious investigating but something was not right. Either the design of the barrier or the implementation on this specific track. The fire also was probably linked to the barrier failure.
Yes, the halo is great and probably saved his life. But there should no be a car going through a barrier, it needs serious investigating but something was not right. Either the design of the barrier or the implementation on this specific track. The fire also was probably linked to the barrier failure.
I'm speculating, but because the part with the feet has to be so sturdy, then if the car hits the joint between the horizontal sections of the barrier, you want (I think) the car to win. If not, he loses his legs. Not sure what the answer is, short of eliminating that kind of barrier completely and maybe going to a combination everywhere of the gravel / collabsible / tyre wall kind of thing.
That part of the barrier is on a straight so it’s very rare for something like that to happen. The only answer is to put a layer of tyres infront to reflect him back onto track, but then that brings many other dangers too.
I don't necessarily agree with that. But if that is the case then where possible they need to use better buffer zones before the barrier e.g. tyres as they use on many tracks.
There will be learnings and improvements from the investigation of this incident, no doubt.
They are needed.
That medic that ran to get him is a hero. Made a path for his escape with the fire extinguisher and grabbed him!
It looks like technical aspects saved him from the impact but luck and individual heroism/ bravery saved him from the fire.
It looks like technical aspects saved him from the impact but luck and individual heroism/ bravery saved him from the fire.
There was no barrier failure, it did its job.
Unless you have a source showing that the barrier is supposed to split I'm calling BS.
I don't think the barrier is supposed to split, but I also don't think the barrier was being tested under normal conditions. Grosjean was in 7th gear when he hit the barrier pretty much head on. I think the FIA will do a very detailed analysis of exactly why the barrier broke as it did. SKY pundits are speculating that it shouldn't have split as well, and that it might have been the nose being at the right angle to pierce between the barrier.
Wearing a open faced helmet as well. Brave.
Well the barrier is designed to take the impact of the accident and dissipate the energy. At 53G with all the other safety measures in place (Halo, Safety Cell, HANS) the driver managed to get out of the car. Having any other form of barrier sat there (Tecpro / Tyre) will only put the car back into the circuit and cause more of an incident as @Adam-Utd has rightly pointed out. Antonie Hubert is a good example of this if you're new to the sport.
Let's not forget that the crash today on a straight piece of the circuit, on a circuit designed and renowned for it's run off areas. It was a huge driver error today. So no point throwing the baby out with the bath water here.
Yet the MD of F1 specifically says the split of the barrier was "worrying". I think Ross Brawn might have a clearer idea than you on what the barriers job is and how it should react.
Romain Grosjean: Haas driver suffers burns after huge Bahrain GP crash and fire - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55122594
They’d expect the barrier to bend backwards but stay intact - the issue is no barrier is designed to have a car hit it head first at 150mph, there’s no way to test that. I thought it actually held up fairly well considering!
its difficult to say what the right answer is, unfortunately there’s always an element of risk with racing.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the first replay with the car being split in half and the driver cell being wedged into the railing. We all knew it was a bad crash but I've never seen anything like that, incredible that he was able to jump out of the car himself with relatively minor injuries.
I was watching him live on Sky at the time and it felt like he was trying to cover all of the bases. Some of the smartest people around work in F1 but I reckon they will be baffled by this as well as it no one really expects this to happen.
Dr Ian Roberts, came across as a humble guy on the interviews as well, rapid action from him and Van der Merwe probably saved someone's life.
You're right, how else can anyone have an opinion if Ross Brawn says it's worrying? I mean what else is the MD of F1 going to say in the heat of the moment?
A barrier on a straight is designed to behave very differently from a corner, especially one which is covering an exit/entrance from a Marshall post to the circuit. The fact the post in the picture has retained it's connection to the ground and has bent on impact, shows that the barrier did it's job. So much that Grosjean didn't end up in the dirt behind the barrier like this wheel did. I assume you have the same view on the tyre tethers as you do on the barriers?
Exactly, even the most strongest of materials have a breaking point. The barrier actually held onto the safety cell, which is the key point to remember. The balance is if you make the car to be further stronger there will be higher impact forces on the drivers. A car shedding bits is dissipating kinetic energy; crushable structures to absorb energy while limiting maximum g loading are critical for safety. However taking a barrier on a straight as a ruling example for all barriers condition probably isn't the best place to start.
Louis Deletraz making his debut at the next Bahrain GP?
Watched it several times now and I'm just amazed he got out alive.
Doubt it, they’ve got an f2 weekend also.
probably be hulkenburg again or just run 1 car.
I think you saying the barrier "did its job" is such an oversimplification of the matter it is barely true. Yes, the barrier stopped the car, in that respect it did its job. If a barrier on the part of a track where cars are going 150mph will split on impact then they need to redesign or change approach to barrier type and/or positioning.You're right, how else can anyone have an opinion if Ross Brawn says it's worrying? I mean what else is the MD of F1 going to say in the heat of the moment?
A barrier on a straight is designed to behave very differently from a corner, especially one which is covering an exit/entrance from a Marshall post to the circuit. The fact the post in the picture has retained it's connection to the ground and has bent on impact, shows that the barrier did it's job. So much that Grosjean didn't end up in the dirt behind the barrier like this wheel did. I assume you have the same view on the tyre tethers as you do on the barriers?
Exactly, even the most strongest of materials have a breaking point. The barrier actually held onto the safety cell, which is the key point to remember. The balance is if you make the car to be further stronger there will be higher impact forces on the drivers. A car shedding bits is dissipating kinetic energy; crushable structures to absorb energy while limiting maximum g loading are critical for safety. However taking a barrier on a straight as a ruling example for all barriers condition probably isn't the best place to start.
The tyre wall was an example of an alternative, not me proposing the perfect solution. If implemented it would be in conjunction with other big track side and positional changes.
Ultimately there will be an investigation and I'm sure there will be changes in barrier technology and implementation after this. We may as well revisit this barrier question then.
I think that F1 always strives for improvements, this crash will be yet another catalyst for improvement in safety. If course, they need to fully investigate, analyse and then implement so it will take time.
As for the medics, I am blown away by the bravery and quick thinking demonstrated. I really hope they get additional recognition or a big bonus for today!
The reason Grosjean is alive today is because the barrier wasn't rigid. If it was rigid and built of the likes of hardened steel the car would become the remover of force and he would have been killed. A barrier needs to stretch and bend to increase the stopping distance of the car and reduce the G force as much as possible. This is an impact that was so fast that it exceeded the limits the barrier could bend and he went partially through it. This is still better than something which would stop the car with greater force when the impact is around 150mph.
I agree that they need to and will look at this and review if they can do anything but there's basic physics at play here as bouncing back into the track could be even worse depending on the part of the track it is in and increasing the give of the barrier (tyre walls) would increase the chances that can happen.
Let's not forget the Marshalls, who do this in a largely unpaid and voluntary capacity. Especially the two guys that were there extinguishing the flames, and on in particular to create the path of exit.As for the medics, I am blown away by the bravery and quick thinking demonstrated. I really hope they get additional recognition or a big bonus for today!
Someone stitched some videos together showing time of impact to Grosjean being recovered.