It's always there in every game. The combination of Shaw>Rashford>Martial is always there.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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That obviously depends on a whole lot of things, you can get middling results and still see an improvement in style of play and understanding between all 20+ players in the squad no matter if they're playing WBA or Bayern which would make it easy to hand out more time to the manager. Klopp obviosuly wasn't unproven when he got to Liverpool but he's a good example of a manager that didn't immediately blow the doors off when it came to points but showed big improvements on the pitch, and while it might be unfair to compare Ole to him it's hard to see those improvements for United over the past two years other than the fact that we have better players now.
If I was in charge of United I'd give Ole this season to prove that he deserves more time which means a top 4 finish, a decent run in the CL and a more cohesive style of play week in and week out. The big dips in form not only over the season as a whole but within each game as well needs ironing out.
Personally there's no way I can look at our entire coaching staff credentials and our results and performances under them and think "Yes, this is the best we can do"
Henderson is a sweeper keeper?
Not the finished article but definitely more natural at it than DDG. We can only really use his Sheffield stats and they play differently to us but he's confident with the ball at feet.
Interesting data on it mid way through this article: Dean Henderson 19/20 - scout report - EPL Analysis
The stats there show he's better at it than De Gea but not enough so that he could be called a sweeper keeper.
Why would his stats be up there with Ederson or the like when he's playing for Sheffield United?
Obviously we're not an awfully coached team.
we seem to fluctuate from looking really well coached to absolutely clueless on a weekly basis
The way I see it - if we are an awfully coached team - that makes you wonder how awful players Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and City have - since they are not all a lot of points ahead of us.
We are not awfully coached at all but we clearly still have a problem. Perhaps we are better at beating a high press but still very bad against low block teams.
Maybe the reason behind that is the double pivot. It's a high energy 2 man midfield which does not have much creativity and in order to play a 2 creative players together we would need one DM who is good enough to replace a double pivot.
Maybe the reason behind that is the double pivot. It's a high energy 2 man midfield which does not have much creativity and in order to play a 2 creative players together we would need one DM who is good enough to replace a double pivot.
Or some fans couldn't see player forms means better performances instead of what they're doing daily. Bad form, play like shit, it's that easy to understand.
The football we played under Ole is always evident in each games, it's the execution is lacking, consistently.
As p
As poor as we've been at times this season, if we win our game in hand we're only two points off the top after 10 games! Crazy, it's wide open this year.
Can any coaching experts explain which teams looked well coached this weekend? Some of the favourites here under Rodgers, Ancelotti and Arteta certainly didn't.
Apparently Klopp can get performances of his team no matter who he starts with, but he drew a game as well on Saturday.
Maybe football is not as clear cut as people think. They talk about consistency, we've won 3 on the bounce now and ain't far of the top spot.
Been pretty consistent across comps since January. Bad start to season in league no doubt about it. But have turned it right around.
I feel like people have an unrealistic outlook to the team where they think we should literally be winning every game with total domination on the pitch. Doesnt work like that. Pretty much every match we play we dominate the major stats. But get we ain't performed at all even if we win.
Maybe football is not as clear cut as people think. They talk about consistency, we've won 3 on the bounce now and ain't far of the top spot.
Been pretty consistent across comps since January. Bad start to season in league no doubt about it. But have turned it right around.
I feel like people have an unrealistic outlook to the team where they think we should literally be winning every game with total domination on the pitch. Doesnt work like that. Pretty much every match we play we dominate the major stats. But get we ain't performed at all even if we win.
The question is who is coaching our team? And it seems like Kieran McKenna is the one that's doing the actual coaching on the training ground with Carrick learning on the job at one of the biggest clubs in the world which I find troubling.
I agree with this.
I don’t see coaching as the root of any problems we supposedly have, and disagree we are poorly coached. But ideally you’d have a bit more experience in the coaching team. Problem with that is that many of the best coaches of the past are now managers (often pretty shite managers at that) so wouldn’t take a subservient role.
The thing that makes me laugh is our previous two coaches would have been regarded as great coaches at club and European level and we gave them a shed load of cash to spend and yet the football was dire.
Don’t know about you guys but I would watch a Ole coached Utd any day of the week over those two clowns.
On the face of it, I agree, that type of set up is troubling. But I have no concerns over Carrick, he has been highly praised by all of Ole, Jose and LvG for his coaching among many of the players, of which most recently Bruno give a glowing assessment.
That's simply not correct. Our record since Bruno arrived, before which we were essentially a different team, does not indicate a systemic problem against low block teams. In that period we've won about 2/3 of our games against teams who play that way, and frequently by large scores. We've not been as consistent with that this year as were post-January last year, but it would probably be wise to make allowances for the fact that the opening of this season has been full of struggles in all kinds of ways before jumping to conclusions.
Frankly I'm getting really annoyed by that narrative, because it's so obviously contradicted by the record. Especially Jonathan Wilson at the Guardian, who seems to think this is still the team he was watching in January 2019, completely reliant on the counterattack.
United's scoring this season has been balanced - pretty much equally divided between penalty/set piece goals, counterattack goals and goals from established play.
Has Carrick been praised for his coaching? Can you kindly link me to the quotes please?
Oh god, now you're asking! I'd have to have a good think to remember when the manager quotes were but the Bruno praise was a couple of weeks back on the United podcast.
No worries mate it's not that important. But thanks for the response regardless
Awfully coached team with just 1 less point than Liverpool since Bruno joined. And they have played 1 more game than us too.
Maybe our fans are just spoiled brats who don't know what they want eh? Maybe it's that.
Maybe our fans are just spoiled brats who don't know what they want eh? Maybe it's that.
We seem to have a fairly good over-riding tactical set-up, which is highlighted by how often we don't just beat good teams but comfortably beat them. It hasn't just been counter-attacks either. Obviously we have some days where it really doesn't work, but more often than not we do seem to have things set up well and it's the players simply not playing well.
What we do poorly, and have ever since Ferigie's last team ended, is off-the-ball movement and interplay between players. Watch just about any other top team (or hell, even half the 'lesser' teams in the league) and their movement is far better than ours in terms of players constantly making themselves available. When a player gets the ball they almost always have at least one good option to make a quick pass to, who will in turn have at least one good option to pass to, and so on. Often three or more good options at once, which just makes things much easier for them and allows them to play through teams much better than we can.
I think that's another reason we tend to look much better with Fred than without. It's not just his defensive work rate, he's also comfortably better than any of our other central midfielders at making himself available to receive the pass and keep the ball moving. Obviously VDB looks like he's also going to be a huge help in that aspect, so the two of them together is definitely promising if they are able to be solid enough defensively. We've already seen some nice interplay between them. Bruno obviously is good as well. But none of our forwards, with the possible exception of Cavani now, are good at it. Matic and Pogba are both poor at it. Our fullbacks are poor at it. If it were just one or two you can blame the players, but when it's the majority of the team and has been that way for long enough that players have come, gone and been replaced it really does seem to be a huge issue with the coaching.
What we do poorly, and have ever since Ferigie's last team ended, is off-the-ball movement and interplay between players. Watch just about any other top team (or hell, even half the 'lesser' teams in the league) and their movement is far better than ours in terms of players constantly making themselves available. When a player gets the ball they almost always have at least one good option to make a quick pass to, who will in turn have at least one good option to pass to, and so on. Often three or more good options at once, which just makes things much easier for them and allows them to play through teams much better than we can.
I think that's another reason we tend to look much better with Fred than without. It's not just his defensive work rate, he's also comfortably better than any of our other central midfielders at making himself available to receive the pass and keep the ball moving. Obviously VDB looks like he's also going to be a huge help in that aspect, so the two of them together is definitely promising if they are able to be solid enough defensively. We've already seen some nice interplay between them. Bruno obviously is good as well. But none of our forwards, with the possible exception of Cavani now, are good at it. Matic and Pogba are both poor at it. Our fullbacks are poor at it. If it were just one or two you can blame the players, but when it's the majority of the team and has been that way for long enough that players have come, gone and been replaced it really does seem to be a huge issue with the coaching.
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This thread is a perfect sample of the Caf's knee-jerk ism
It's almost hilarious how posters' opinions differ after unexpected wins and unexpected losses
It's almost hilarious how posters' opinions differ after unexpected wins and unexpected losses
We're starting to improve. If I were Ole, though, I'd be tempted to replace the some of the coaching staff.
I don't think that we play aggressive enough on the counter, or complex enough whilst in possession, so we're still in this meek middle ground. We're getting better but it could be sped along.
I don't think that we play aggressive enough on the counter, or complex enough whilst in possession, so we're still in this meek middle ground. We're getting better but it could be sped along.
This doesn't explain coaching the collective in preparation for match days. Which is what I was alluding to in my previous posts. Carrick has never coached a team at any level competitively.
Reminds me of the times where Liverpool had a better manager than United (Ferguson!), a better goalie, a better defense, clearly a better midfield (they had the mighty Gerrard, and we only had the little man Scholes), and of course better attackers. Still, Liverpool struggled to finish top six and United went on to regularly win the league.
As you probably are also aware of, Norwegian pundits are extremely negative towards United. When we won against Leipzig, the focus was on United struggling to play out from the back in the first half, not how they decimated Leipzig all things considered. We are often told that United are poorly coached and are awfully inconsistent. However, since February, aren't United one of the most consistent performers? Especially if you take away that horrendous start to the season, where Solskjær admitted they were not ready for the league because of no pre-season. It is a shame then, that United supporters seem blind to this and jump on the band wagon. Yes, there are issues with the team, but what team in the league are not having issues this season?
As for injuries, we had Martial, Shaw, McTominay and Pogba out against Southampton. It's not like we are without injuries either.
The problem with part of the fan base is they look at twitter and make judgements on players without watching them.
We concede a goal, someone will post a picture of Maguire and say.. £80m and can't head a ball and fans will say oh he is shit he playing crap.
People make judgements on players after Palace and Spurs and think that is gospel.
Look at hoe many people talk about AWB's lack of passing, last 3/4 games he has been passing very well
Fred loses the ball too much? No, watch the last few games and you will see he is brilliant.
You have got to be joking. LVG football was the worst football ive watched in my life and ie been going to Old Trafford in the 1970,s when Tommy Doc was manager. (I was 12)
I sat in the stands shaking my head and yawning at LVG boring tactics. Some games i just wanted to get up and leave It was so boring, players passing sideways then back sideways then back.. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... that not man uniteds way and never will be. I celebrated when he got the boot.
It's ridiculous because good or bad results the issues with our play still remains. Until they're fixed we'll struggle for the consistency we need.
Anyone who watches football games outside of our own can see that certain other teams are incredibly well coached even with lesser players. They deliver consistency in play between games.
This place used to be mainly discussing tactics and coaching. Now it's seen as an attack on the manager so people throw a hissy at it being mentioned.
Once a feeling, or an opinion, is set in someone's mind it takes quite a long time for that feeling to go away. We don't struggle to create chances against defensive opponents. We aren't particularly inconsistent, and we rarely adopt a counter-attacking style unless we are playing opponents where that's the best way to beat them. There will be outliers of course because that's football, but they are certainly not the norm. We obviously aren't an awfully coached team either. Some of these things still get mentioned all the time though, even by known journalists. Its lazy.
The 0-0s against city and psv spring to mind.
Especially the psv, the only thing I remember about that game is ending up on a tram full of psv fans after the game. At first I was a little worried but it became apparent that everybody was struggling to stay awake.
How are we not inconsistent this season?
We're 9th in shots on target and 9th in goals scored, in a good few games we've only had 2 or 3 on target where the opponent has setup defensive.
We've also got the most goals from counter attacks in the league.
Stats aren't everything but they certainly don't support your opinion.
Which teams apart from City should I go back and watch from the weekend to see 'incredible' coaching in action?
Let's take it back further till end of January. We've got the most pts per game of all 20 PL clubs.How are we not inconsistent this season?
We're 9th in shots on target and 9th in goals scored, in a good few games we've only had 2 or 3 on target where the opponent has setup defensive.
We've also got the most goals from counter attacks in the league.
Stats aren't everything but they certainly don't support your opinion.
We started the season awfully because of the schedule which was totally unfair on us (and on City too) and all you moany gits blamed it on Ole.
Since we've caught up fitness wise our results have picked up significantly. So much so that's we're now 5pts off top with a game in hand. Stop moaning and support the manager. He's doing a good job.
Er, I really don't think that's true. As I remember it, the coverage after RBL was all about how that was a huge triumph. They're just being newspapers, which means they will always build up the drama whenever Ole's job security is low, but they also build up the achievements because Ole is after all Norwegian. The TV commentary is reasonable and balanced, in my view.
Also, if someone commented on how they struggled to play out from the back in the first half (the expert commentators on TV did that, true enough), they were spot on in my view.
Agree.
City started with a wobble, so did we. So did lots of clubs. Lets not forget that just about all the sports science experts, pundits, players, managers who have gone on record to say that no pre-season could decimate the fitness of finely tuned athletes that have trained all their lives for 9 month seasons and to have lengthy pre-seasons, friendly matches, etc. Reading into specific stats about shots on target etc means absolutely nothing. What matters is we finished 3rd last season, if we win our game in hand we're joint 3rd in the league. 1 point from the knock out stages of the CL.
I think some people expect us to have 30 points from 30.