Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Paul_Scholes18]

Who is that? And what is our best formation against PSG? Who looked sharp in training today and who had knocks? Haven’t seen the presser yet.

Most sensible team for the game and our needs. Probably De Gea if fit, AWB, Lindelöf, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Telles, Fred, DVB/Mctominay(if he can play), Bruno, Rashford, Cavani/Martial.

I feel we should defend deep and hit them on the break as we often do well.

 

[FatherWolff]

Most sensible team for the game and our needs. Probably De Gea if fit, AWB, Lindelöf, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Telles, Fred, DVB/Mctominay(if he can play), Bruno, Rashford, Cavani/Martial.

I feel we should defend deep and hit them on the break as we often do well.

Agree with the formation. Was wondering if ddg and telles would be fit. Maybe even Shaw is back? Like the look of that team.

 

[VP89]

So your definition of mediocre is 3rd in the league, beating PSG away twice, and then destroying Leipzig 5-0 ?
Not to mention beating City and Chelsea 3 times each in a season

With that definition - every single team apart from maybe Liverpool is mediocre

I'm talking about the rival fans, and obviously anyone can take the best highlights of a manager to suggest they aren't mediocre. What sort of an argument is that to begin with? After PSG we underperformed. After Leipzig we underperformed. Now we are performing again, and the rival fans reckon its not long before Ole dips.

It's mentioned on the youtube channel "Kick Off" by Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal and City fans. Its on their fan forums about Ole and I also get it on my WhatsApp groups. So that's what I'm getting that vibe from, that they reckon Ole is perfect. Because he has a few big wins, some good runs and then crashes. Then just when he's on the brink, he gets a few results. They say that works perfect for them because we will never be back to prominence with that.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Agree with the formation. Was wondering if ddg and telles would be fit. Maybe even Shaw is back? Like the look of that team.

I don't know the latest news. Shame we are getting so many knocks right now.

 

[Footy van de Geek]

I just don't get why there is so much mistrust of Ole and a worry about consistency. Since the beginning of this (Calendar) year, United have outperformed Liverpool.

Just a quick look at results:

TEAM	PLAYED	WON	DRAWN	LOST	GOALS FOR	GOALS AGAINST	DIFFERENCE	GOALS FOR PER GAME AVG	GOALS AGAINST PER GAME AVG
MAN UTD	47	29 (61.7%)	8 (17%)	10 (21.3%)	99	43	+56	2.1	0.9
LIVERPOOL	42	26 (61.9%)	6 (14.3%)	10 (23.8%)	82	49	+33	1.9	1.1

You've played more games, have almost exactly the same win rate, have a vastly better goal difference and better goals per game for and against averages.

Yet a good proportion of your fan base are still adamantly Ole out, I just don't get it. I'll update this again at the end of the year but so far over 11 months, since Jan 1st 2020, you are matching if not beating, a tram and manager often held up as the very best in England, Europe and the world!

This is too big a sample to be down to "individual brilliance" and surely shows that tactically, though he has made mistakes, he knows what he is doing. I think it also shows that your defence and your attack are right up there.

So what more does Ole have to do to show he is capable of matching the best? or at the very least genuinely improving United and heading very much in the right direction?

Spoiler: Man Utd Results since Jan 1 2020

• L Arsenal 2 – Man Utd 0
• D Wolves 0 – Man Utd 0
• L Man Utd 1 – Man City 3
• W Man Utd 4 – Norwich 0
• W Man Utd 1 – Wolves 0
• L Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
• L Man Utd 0 – Burnley 2
• W Tranmere 0 - Man Utd 6
• W Man City 0 – Man Utd 1
• D Man Utd 0 – Wolves 0
• W Chelsea 0 – Man Utd 2
• D Brugge 1 - Man Utd 1
• W Man Utd 3 – Watford 0
• W Man Utd 5 – Brugge 0
• D Everton 1 – Man Utd 1
• W Derby 0 - Man Utd 3
• W Man Utd 2 – Man City 0
• W LASK 0 - Man Utd 5

LOCK DOWN

• D Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 1
• W Man Utd 3 – Sheffield Utd 0
• W Norwich 1 - Man Utd 2
• W Brighton 0 – Man Utd 3
• W Man Utd 5 – Bournemouth 2
• W Aston Villa 0 - Man Utd 3
• D Man Utd 2 – Southampton 2
• W Palace 0 - Man Utd 2
• L Man Utd 1 – Chelsea 3
• D Man Utd 1 – West Ham 1
• W Leicester 0 - Man Utd 2
• W Man Utd 2 – LASK 1
• W Man Utd 1 – Copenhagen 0
• L Sevilla 2 - Man Utd 1

2020/21 SEASON

• L Man Utd 1 – Palace 3
• W Luton 0 - Man Utd 3
• W Brighton 2 - Man Utd 3
• W Brighton 0 - Man Utd 3
• L Man Utd 1 – Spurs 6
• W Newcastle 1 - Man Utd 4
• W PSG 1 - Man Utd 2
• D Man Utd 0 – Chelsea 0
• W Man Utd 5 – Leipzig 0
• L Man Utd 0 – Arsenal 1
• L Istanbul 2 - Man Utd 1
• W Everton 1 - Man Utd 3
• W Man Utd 1 – West Brom 0
• W Man Utd 4 – Istanbul 1
• W Southampton 2 - Man Utd 3

Spoiler: Liverpool Results since Jan 1 2020

• W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 0
• W Liverpool 1 – Everton 0
• W Spurs 0 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
• W Wolves 1 – Liverpool 2
• D Shrewsbury 2 – Liverpool 2
• W West Ham 0 – Liverpool 2
• W Liverpool 4 – Southampton 0
• W Liverpool 1 – Shrewsbury 0
• W Norwich 0 – Liverpool 1
• L A Madrid 1 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 3 – West Ham 2
• L Watford 3 – Liverpool 0
• L Chelsea 2 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 2 – Bournemouth 1
• L Liverpool 2 – A Madrid 3

LOCKDOWN

• D Everton 0 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 4 – Palace 0
• L Man City 4 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 2 – Aston Villa 0
• W Brighton 1 – Liverpool 3
• D Liverpool 1 – Burnley 1
• L Arsenal 2 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 5 – Chelsea 3
• W Newcastle 1 – Liverpool 3

2020/21 SEASON

• L Arsenal 1 – Liverpool 1 (Liverpool lost on pens)
• W Liverpool 4 – Leeds 3
• W Chelsea 0 – Liverpool 2
• W Lincoln 2 – Liverpool 7
• W Liverpool 3 – Arsenal 1
• L Liverpool 0 – Arsenal 0 (Liverpool lost on pens)
• L Aston Villa 7 – Liverpool 2
• D Everton 2 – Liverpool 2
• W Ajax 0 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 1
• W Liverpool 2 – Midtjylland 0
• W Liverpool 2 – West Ham 1
• W Atalanta 0 – Liverpool 5
• D Man City 1 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 3 – Leicester 0
• L Liverpool 0 – Atalanta 2
• D Brighton 1 – Liverpool 1

Liverpool haven't been the same force since Watford humbled them 3-0. Their defence collapsed around that time. Before that, they were rarely conceding more than a goal a game. Atlético put 3 past them at Anfield shortly after the Watford defeat. City beat them 4-0 after the restart. Arsenal and Chelsea scored 5 goals between them against them within a week in July. Leeds scored 3 goals at Anfield on the opening day. Villa beat them 7-2. Even Lincoln managed to score 2 goals against them in The League Cup a few days before the freakish Villa game.

As Jamie Carragher rightly said on Sky a few weeks ago. In order for someone other than City or Liverpool to win the league, their level would have to drop significantly (as in from 98+ points to around 82), which is what we are now seeing. City dropped off last season. Liverpool are still doing pretty well, given their injury crisis. But won't come close to reaching the heights of last season's points tally.

This has opened up things for Spurs, Chelsea, Leicester and United who can all close the gap this year. United need to go from 66 points (past two seasons) to around 80 points in order to have a realistic chance.

As for why people doubt Ole. To add some context to your post:

1. We lost 3 semi finals in one season (beaten comfortably in 2 of them)
2. We finished on the exact same points tally as the season before (it's the joint 2nd lowest third place finish in PL history)
3. We scored 1 extra PL goal, despite having the likes of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno in our ranks
4. Extending Ighalo's loan when it wasn't required (signing Cavani made him surplus to requirements)
5. We went 6 PL home games without a win until we beat WBA 1-0 (6 goals scored from our last 7 PL home games)
6. Spurs 1-6
7. Istanbul away (the organisation defensively)
8. The overall inconsistency in performances (very rarely dominate a game from start to finish, or for at least 60-70 mins)
9. Ole's inability to find a way for Pogba or vdB to play with Bruno regularly (I've accepted that Pogba is done here, so not as important)
10. Refusal to drop De Gea (this has done Ole more harm than anyone, as De Gea's mistakes have been very costly at times)
11. Possible necromancy at hand

I don't deny the good aspects, such as improved team morale, a newfound belief after going a goal behind, and results in some of the big games. The title is there to be won for nearly any top 10 side this season. It's a strange time for the sport. It's up to Ole to cease this opportunity now and put in a good title challenge.

However, I would take a coach like Graham Potter over Ole in the long term (but he's not ready for such a big leap). Still needs to find a way to start picking up more points. The performances and general style have been fairly good, which I assume you would agree on. You were very unlucky against Chelsea and United. Potter's body of work in Scandinavia is arguably equally as good as what Ole did at Molde, for anyone who wants to shit on him. His work there over a long time, with consistent progress. Remarkable. And they've been sliding down the table since he left.

 

[The Boy]

As for why people doubt Ole. To add some context to your post:

1. We lost 3 semi finals in one season (beaten comfortably in 2 of them)
2. We finished on the exact same points tally as the season before (it's the joint 2nd lowest third place finish in PL history)
3. We scored 1 extra PL goal, despite having the likes of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno in our ranks
4. Extending Ighalo's loan when it wasn't required (signing Cavani made him surplus to requirements)
5. We went 6 PL home games without a win until we beat WBA 1-0 (6 goals scored from our last 7 PL home games)
6. Spurs 1-6
7. Istanbul away (the organisation defensively)
8. The overall inconsistency in performances (very rarely dominate a game from start to finish, or for at least 60-70 mins)
9. Ole's inability to find a way for Pogba or vdB to play with Bruno regularly (I've accepted that Pogba is done here, so not as important)
10. Refusal to drop De Gea (this has done Ole more harm than anyone, as De Gea's mistakes have been very costly at times)
11. Possible necromancy at hand

I don't deny the good aspects, such as improved team morale, a newfound belief after going a goal behind, and results in some of the big games. The title is there to be won for nearly any top 10 side this season. It's a strange time for the sport. It's up to Ole to cease this opportunity now and put in a good title challenge.

However, I would take a coach like Graham Potter over Ole in the long term (but he's not ready for such a big leap). Still needs to find a way to start picking up more points. The performances and general style have been fairly good, which I assume you would agree on. You were very unlucky against Chelsea and United. Potter's body of work in Scandinavia is arguably equally as good as what Ole did at Molde, for anyone who wants to shit on him. His work there over a long time, with consistent progress. Remarkable. And they've been sliding down the table since he left.

All fair points, but you're never going to find a fan that can't find fault with their team, I could moan for months about Brighton!

The point I was trying to make was that over the last 11 months, ie 2020 you've improved dramatically over 2019 and the figures I posted earlier prove demonstrable progress. I get that people will still complain but I find it weird that a large section of the Utd fan base either see this and ignore it, or just refuse to see it. Why would you want to get rid of a coach who is clearly improving the club on and off the pitch? If he hits a ceiling and you plateau then fair enough, but that has not happened so far.

Just to go through your points....

1. The semis were disappointing (said the actress to the bishop!)
2. I think a lower points rate points to a tougher league where you can never really predict which team will have the upper hand, bar Liverpool who managed something exceptional and as you say that won't be repeated.
3. You'd sold Lukaku and there was real worry here at the time about who would replace those goals, but it wasn't an issue and Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all still improving.
4. I think the whole transfer window was badly handled for you, Ighalo was extended when they thought they'd still get Sancho and Cavani was a panic recruit right at the end, but I wouldn't blame Ole for that.
5. Agreed that is poor, but at the same time your away form is on fire!
6. One off game, I raise you with Villa 7 Liverpool 2
7. again agreed massively disappointing for you
8. Very few teams dominate for 90 minutes, but you're winning those games this year far more than you did last year against all levels of teams and managers
9. I think he's finding a way with DvB and Bruno, he did get Pogba and Bruno working together after lockdown last year, but again you're right Pogba is off so its not such a problem.
10. I think this is really subjective, I rate DDG more than Romero, so I wouldn't have dropped him last season either, Henderson throws up another question though.
11. Definite necromancy at hand!

As for Potter, I wouldn't take Ole over him because I can see Potter's long term vision for the club on and off the pitch, but to be fair you can see Ole's for United too. And you're dead right we were unlucky against Chelsea and United, I would throw Liverpool in there too! In fact the only game where we have been poor was against West Brom when we we're shite, I have high hopes for Welbeck.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Two sides to every story so to speak. There is a reason why every single opposition fan would love for us to give OGS a life-long contact, whilst at the same time never would have hired him themselves. They see our squad and really cannot understand why we are doing so poorly in attacking build-up, why we are catching up all the time instead of actually starting up top - why we are not a threat to anything these days. I'm tired of discussing him and have backed down from pointless arguments after a win, after a loss, the same people and the same, lame arguments (mine included I guess). We will see in the end, I am very confident we will sack him and then realize our squad is really good once a proper manager is handed the responsibility. Saying that, I would appreciate it a lot if he stopped saying things like "Look, the boys did really well" or "The boy has had a fantastic start to his career" and so on and so forth. The "boy" thing is extremely annoying (in my opinion) and even condescending. He just described Haaland as "the boy" in his latest interview, you can call him Erling or Haaland, the player even, skip the boy-bullshit, you're not from Scotland, you probably don't even understand a word when Sir Alex is talking to you.

In the grand scheme of things what lay people, oppo fans no less, think is neither here nor there. The Caf in its infinite wisdom and football acumen had a number of threads along the lines of "Jurgen Flopp Sack Watch". When we got Mourinho the consensus was that love him or hate him, he was a sure bet and nailed on to win the league by his second year. Fast forward and here we are.

Also getting in a twist about how he addresses Haaland, a boy he personally knows and coached? Get over yourself.

 

[lysglimt]

I'm talking about the rival fans, and obviously anyone can take the best highlights of a manager to suggest they aren't mediocre. What sort of an argument is that to begin with? After PSG we underperformed. After Leipzig we underperformed. Now we are performing again, and the rival fans reckon its not long before Ole dips.

It's mentioned on the youtube channel "Kick Off" by Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal and City fans. Its on their fan forums about Ole and I also get it on my WhatsApp groups. So that's what I'm getting that vibe from, that they reckon Ole is perfect. Because he has a few big wins, some good runs and then crashes. Then just when he's on the brink, he gets a few results. They say that works perfect for them because we will never be back to prominence with that.

I know you are talking about rival-fans. And if City and Chelsea-fans are happy we have a manager who beat them 3 times out of 4 - maybe they aren't that smart ?

 

[el3mel]

Most managers nowadays address players by "boys" not just Ole to be fair. I heard Klopp and Mourinho say it too. Not sure when this started to become a trend though.

 

[lysglimt]

Damn Ole trying to be Scottish. He was probably just nodding in agreement when SAF spoke. He is probably practicisng a thick Scottish accent infront of the mirror before going to bed, that he will try to ease in over the years so no one notices. Did you notice he looked at the time in extra-time versus Southampton? Fecking SAF wannabe. Soon enough Ole will introduce glasses and wear a black coat to every game, while speaking in a thick scottish accent and looking at his watch. What an arsehole.

No doubt about it, no doubt!

 

[Bobcat]

Oh God. Why did you do that?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Two sides to every story so to speak. There is a reason why every single opposition fan would love for us to give OGS a life-long contact, whilst at the same time never would have hired him themselves. They see our squad and really cannot understand why we are doing so poorly in attacking build-up, why we are catching up all the time instead of actually starting up top - why we are not a threat to anything these days. I'm tired of discussing him and have backed down from pointless arguments after a win, after a loss, the same people and the same, lame arguments (mine included I guess). We will see in the end, I am very confident we will sack him and then realize our squad is really good once a proper manager is handed the responsibility. Saying that, I would appreciate it a lot if he stopped saying things like "Look, the boys did really well" or "The boy has had a fantastic start to his career" and so on and so forth. The "boy" thing is extremely annoying (in my opinion) and even condescending. He just described Haaland as "the boy" in his latest interview, you can call him Erling or Haaland, the player even, skip the boy-bullshit, you're not from Scotland, you probably don't even understand a word when Sir Alex is talking to you.

Even if United wins the league under Ole, opposition fan would still love for us to give OGS a life-long contract.

Our squad was labeled not good enough before Ole took over. The fact that people like you and opposition fans now think our squad is really good should tell you the positive impact he has done building our team, something Moyes, LVG & Mourinho couldn’t do. Knows the area he needs to improve, capable to improve players that were labeled as not good enough under Mourinho & develop young talented players. These unrecognised things by the Ole out actually changed people’s perspective on our squad and increased the value of our squad.

 

[Bobcat]

Imo, his biggest problem is that he changes his mind after every defeat. He finds best 11, we play nicely, lose one game and he changes formation, lineup and approach.
Playing with AWB, McT and Fred at the same time is just too defensive and lacks creativity.
If you play diamond you don't need McT with Fred. VDB proved that he can do his defensive duties and offers so much in attack.
Play Fred, Bruno, Pogba and Vdb with Cavani and Rashford/Martial in attack. That team will dominate most of clubs.

Against Arse and Chelsea we lost points because we played too defensive despite having similiar (Chelsea) and much better squad (Arsenal).

But changing things up after you lose is normal no? If somethings not working, then you should try something different. I agree that McT and Fred in CM is a bit defensive since neither of them are particularly creative, but until recently it was not exactly clear cut who was out best MF combination. They diamond has worked well and been complete shit. The problem with the diamond is that its very narrow from midfield and up, and you have to use your fullbacks for width, Even though AWB is improving neither him nor Shaw are the most talented attacking fullbacks so imo its not the best formation for us right now.

Also, i think Ole really wanted Pogba to get going and get back to the form he showed when Ole was caretaker. That hasnt exactly been the case and we have got diabolical performances and weird comments while hes been on international duty and now hes injured again (or is he?). VdB played very little at the start of the season for some reason, but based on his recent performances its very evident he deserves to be starting

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I just don't get why there is so much mistrust of Ole and a worry about consistency. Since the beginning of this (Calendar) year, United have outperformed Liverpool.

Just a quick look at results:

TEAM	PLAYED	WON	DRAWN	LOST	GOALS FOR	GOALS AGAINST	DIFFERENCE	GOALS FOR PER GAME AVG	GOALS AGAINST PER GAME AVG
MAN UTD	47	29 (61.7%)	8 (17%)	10 (21.3%)	99	43	+56	2.1	0.9
LIVERPOOL	42	26 (61.9%)	6 (14.3%)	10 (23.8%)	82	49	+33	1.9	1.1

You've played more games, have almost exactly the same win rate, have a vastly better goal difference and better goals per game for and against averages.

Yet a good proportion of your fan base are still adamantly Ole out, I just don't get it. I'll update this again at the end of the year but so far over 11 months, since Jan 1st 2020, you are matching if not beating, a tram and manager often held up as the very best in England, Europe and the world!

This is too big a sample to be down to "individual brilliance" and surely shows that tactically, though he has made mistakes, he knows what he is doing. I think it also shows that your defence and your attack are right up there.

So what more does Ole have to do to show he is capable of matching the best? or at the very least genuinely improving United and heading very much in the right direction?

Spoiler: Man Utd Results since Jan 1 2020

• L Arsenal 2 – Man Utd 0
• D Wolves 0 – Man Utd 0
• L Man Utd 1 – Man City 3
• W Man Utd 4 – Norwich 0
• W Man Utd 1 – Wolves 0
• L Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
• L Man Utd 0 – Burnley 2
• W Tranmere 0 - Man Utd 6
• W Man City 0 – Man Utd 1
• D Man Utd 0 – Wolves 0
• W Chelsea 0 – Man Utd 2
• D Brugge 1 - Man Utd 1
• W Man Utd 3 – Watford 0
• W Man Utd 5 – Brugge 0
• D Everton 1 – Man Utd 1
• W Derby 0 - Man Utd 3
• W Man Utd 2 – Man City 0
• W LASK 0 - Man Utd 5

LOCK DOWN

• D Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 1
• W Man Utd 3 – Sheffield Utd 0
• W Norwich 1 - Man Utd 2
• W Brighton 0 – Man Utd 3
• W Man Utd 5 – Bournemouth 2
• W Aston Villa 0 - Man Utd 3
• D Man Utd 2 – Southampton 2
• W Palace 0 - Man Utd 2
• L Man Utd 1 – Chelsea 3
• D Man Utd 1 – West Ham 1
• W Leicester 0 - Man Utd 2
• W Man Utd 2 – LASK 1
• W Man Utd 1 – Copenhagen 0
• L Sevilla 2 - Man Utd 1

2020/21 SEASON

• L Man Utd 1 – Palace 3
• W Luton 0 - Man Utd 3
• W Brighton 2 - Man Utd 3
• W Brighton 0 - Man Utd 3
• L Man Utd 1 – Spurs 6
• W Newcastle 1 - Man Utd 4
• W PSG 1 - Man Utd 2
• D Man Utd 0 – Chelsea 0
• W Man Utd 5 – Leipzig 0
• L Man Utd 0 – Arsenal 1
• L Istanbul 2 - Man Utd 1
• W Everton 1 - Man Utd 3
• W Man Utd 1 – West Brom 0
• W Man Utd 4 – Istanbul 1
• W Southampton 2 - Man Utd 3

Spoiler: Liverpool Results since Jan 1 2020

• W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 0
• W Liverpool 1 – Everton 0
• W Spurs 0 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
• W Wolves 1 – Liverpool 2
• D Shrewsbury 2 – Liverpool 2
• W West Ham 0 – Liverpool 2
• W Liverpool 4 – Southampton 0
• W Liverpool 1 – Shrewsbury 0
• W Norwich 0 – Liverpool 1
• L A Madrid 1 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 3 – West Ham 2
• L Watford 3 – Liverpool 0
• L Chelsea 2 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 2 – Bournemouth 1
• L Liverpool 2 – A Madrid 3

LOCKDOWN

• D Everton 0 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 4 – Palace 0
• L Man City 4 – Liverpool 0
• W Liverpool 2 – Aston Villa 0
• W Brighton 1 – Liverpool 3
• D Liverpool 1 – Burnley 1
• L Arsenal 2 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 5 – Chelsea 3
• W Newcastle 1 – Liverpool 3

2020/21 SEASON

• L Arsenal 1 – Liverpool 1 (Liverpool lost on pens)
• W Liverpool 4 – Leeds 3
• W Chelsea 0 – Liverpool 2
• W Lincoln 2 – Liverpool 7
• W Liverpool 3 – Arsenal 1
• L Liverpool 0 – Arsenal 0 (Liverpool lost on pens)
• L Aston Villa 7 – Liverpool 2
• D Everton 2 – Liverpool 2
• W Ajax 0 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 1
• W Liverpool 2 – Midtjylland 0
• W Liverpool 2 – West Ham 1
• W Atalanta 0 – Liverpool 5
• D Man City 1 – Liverpool 1
• W Liverpool 3 – Leicester 0
• L Liverpool 0 – Atalanta 2
• D Brighton 1 – Liverpool 1

We are not really inconsistent. But I think the frustrating part for me with Ole is that his tenure has been filled with moments where he proves that he's just a coach from Molde and not good enough and the next minute he's winning your heart and giving you Fergie esque moments. "Just when you think you are out you get pulled back in"

I do think it's not that hard to understand why fans don't trust him . We've already seen it with Zidane after 3 champions league and 1 la liga title fans still don't trust him. It's that stain in their CV that shows they never deserved the job in the first place. Asides from this neither managers have a distinct exciting style of play which fans use to rate managers. Even managers that haven't achieved much can convince people they are good with an exciting style of play eg Graham Potter

I do think that if Ole had a solid CV and/or a distinctive exciting and consistent style of play there'd be less people that don't trust him. It also doesn't help that Ole isn't really charismatic.

 

[Strelok]

To be fair all the rival fans are hoping he stays in charge. They think he's the perfect manager because he wins enough not to get sacked and drops enough points to stay mediocre.

Tbf half the caf were laughing out loud at Klopp before his first league and CL title. According to people here they'd never win a thing with him. And wished the dippers stick with him forever.

I don't say Ole would become the new Klopp. Just imo using opponent fans opinion to judge your manager can be sometime quite irrelevant.

 

[dal]

To be fair all the rival fans are hoping he stays in charge. They think he's the perfect manager because he wins enough not to get sacked and drops enough points to stay mediocre.

My friends are diehard Liverpool fans and they hope ole gets the sack, it’s clear for everyone to see our squad is going places and he knows how to beat anyone.

A disruption to our fine balance now could set us back another 5 years.

Re-evaluate in the summer of 2022.

 

[Andycoleno9]

You think City and Chelsea-fans are delighted that he is our manager ?

I don't think that. I read about it and talk about it with mates who support other clubs. They are all delighted.
Of course that you and me can say; "feck them all" but i was saying what oppo fans think. Is it important what they think? No. Would it be nicer that they have fear of him and "hate" him because they rate him? Well, it would.

 

[VP89]

I know you are talking about rival-fans. And if City and Chelsea-fans are happy we have a manager who beat them 3 times out of 4 - maybe they aren't that smart ?

It's not smart to just evaluate a rival just based on a head to head record, obviously.

Tbf half the caf were laughing out loud at Klopp before his first league and CL title. According to people here they'd never win a thing with him. And wished the dippers stick with him forever.

I don't say Ole would become the new Klopp. Just imo using opponent fans opinion to judge your manager can be sometime quite irrelevant.

More than half the caf were begging for Klopp to be in charge of the club, I wouldn't hold that into much regard.

My friends are diehard Liverpool fans and they hope ole gets the sack, it’s clear for everyone to see our squad is going places and he knows how to beat anyone.

A disruption to our fine balance now could set us back another 5 years.

Re-evaluate in the summer of 2022.

I don't think your friends alone are a representation though.

I don't think that. I read about it and talk about it with mates who support other clubs. They are all delighted.

The best representation I can find is here (particularly 6 min 25 seconds on)


Of course, the way the rivals fans would actually change their view of Ole and our club would be if we continued to keep with the pack toward end of Dec. And if we were still there by say, Feb, then they will really and truly shut the feck up.

 

[The Boy]

We are not really inconsistent. But I think the frustrating part for me with Ole is that his tenure has been filled with moments where he proves that he's just a coach from Molde and not good enough and the next minute he's winning your heart and giving you Fergie esque moments. "Just when you think you are out you get pulled back in"

I do think it's not that hard to understand why fans don't trust him . We've already seen it with Zidane after 3 champions league and 1 la liga title fans still don't trust him. It's that stain in their CV that shows they never deserved the job in the first place. Asides from this neither managers have a distinct exciting style of play which fans use to rate managers. Even managers that haven't achieved much can convince people they are good with an exciting style of play eg Graham Potter

I do think that if Ole had a solid CV and/or a distinctive exciting and consistent style of play there'd be less people that don't trust him. It also doesn't help that Ole isn't really charismatic.

Probably one of the most honest answers I've seen here.

Weirdly I was writing in another thread about tactics, that I think Ole and Potter have more in common than people think. Potter doesn't have one style of play he likes us to be dynamic, flexible and able to adapt to whatever is placed in front of us. I think Ole is similar and this is the reason you don't see a consistent style of play, he doesn't want United to be predictable.

The Everton game was apparently one that pleased him the most

“More and more teams, when they drop back, you want to be the team that can break teams down. I think we showed against Everton the type of team that we can be: we scored from crosses, from long attacks that were built up and we scored the winning goal on a counter-attack.”

If you can adapt, play and score in multiple different ways, you could become a very dangerous team as has been shown quite a few times in 2020.

 

[Strelok]

More than half the caf were begging for Klopp to be in charge of the club, I wouldn't hold that into much regard.

Guess you weren't around by that time. We were still in honeymoon mod with Mou I think. Basically anyone who talked positively about Klopp got mocked and jumped on. While others laughing their ass off at Klopp any chance they got.

I wasn't a member back then, reading mod only but someone still remember it.

I'm shocked you're shocked. The prospect of a highly rated manager failing at your bitter rivals was always a dream scenario. We willed it to happen with the full weight of our cynical, sarcastic psychic minds but alas, we failed miserably. More of a shock surely, if the Caf had been patting them on the back and congratulating them on their progress.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I was wondering why you didn't respond and suddenly I thought you may have looked at the results after 6 games and that was actually the reason you were so quiet. So.....I had a few minutes today and I checked the results after 6 games:

Club	Wins	Draws	Losses	Points
Atalanta	4	0	2	12
PSG	4	0	2	12
Bayern	5	0	1	15
City	4	1	1	13
Leipzig	5	1	0	16
Lyon	1	4	1	7
Barcelona	3	1	2	10
Atletico	3	2	1	11
United	4	0	2	12
Sevilla	2	3	1	9
Inter	3	2	1	11
Shakhtar	3	3	0	12
Wolves	3	0	3	9
Basel	3	1	2	10
Copenhagen	2	1	3	7
Leverkuzen	3	3	0	12

What do you know!? There are only 3 clubs with better results than us in their first 6 games this season (Bayern, City and Leipzig). Another two with the same results (Atalanta and PSG) and two with same points but 3 draws and no losses (Shakhtar and Leverkuzen). Leaving 8 (EIGHT) clubs with worse starts than us (Lyon, Barcelona, Atletico, Sevilla, Inter, Wolves, Basel and Copenhagen).

So, are you going to apologise and admit you were writing nonsense?

@georgipep

strange angry reply, I asked to be educated, I have an 18 month at home and the missus is back at work, so I don’t have time to compile the league results of 16 teams throughout Europe. You seemed desperate to show me the light though.

Looking at that updated table.... erm, hang on???

I was about to say, I’m clearly wrong and cheers for doing that but what the feck?

We won 4 of our first 6 league games this season??? What the hell is going on with that table? If we won four of our first 6 in the league, why was anyone complaining and why was anyone needing to defend it with “poor pre-season” being the reason? Is this some bizarre head feck?

You do realise that people were defending our shit start in the league with the fact that we had a poor pre-season?

No-one gave a feck that we beat Luton in the Carabao cup.

If it turns out most of those 16 teams had an equally shit start in their leagues, I will absolutely hold my hands up and say it looks extremely likely those people arguing Europe in August and lack of pre-season as the reason, had a very good point and that those of us doubting it were clueless.

In fact, I hope you prove that to me as I’ll feel a shit load better about our prospects this season.

 

[VP89]

Guess you weren't around by that time. We were still in honeymoon mod with Mou I think. Anyone who talked positively about Klopp got mocked and jumped on. While others laughing their ass off at Klopp any chance they got.

I don't think you were around at that time, before Klopp joined Liverpool, United fans all loved him to be the next manager. Then he became Liverpool manager and the outlook changed, we all wanted him to fail and tried to turn him into a banter manager.
No rival fan wanted Ole as manager before he came to us (in fact they probably didn't even know he was still active). And right now, well, they don't much think he's a threat.

 

[Flexdegea]

Well tbh, oppo fans are delighted that he is our manager. All of them. Pool fans watching our games and they think; "If you lose great. If you win, great again. Ole stays".
It would be great to say to them "ha ha, who is laughing now" but i doubt that it will happen

And basically their is the problem, the oppo fans are going the thinking for you.

 

[RashysTekkers]

Absolutely having a chuckle at some posters here quoting rival fans who wants Ole to stay as a manager as a sign of how bad the team is doing, as if those opinions meant a single feck. They probably don't even watch a single minute of our games.

 

[roonster09]

What rival fans think means feck all. Most of them just look for banter.

The same posters who are worshipping jose now used to mock ManUtd for hiring jose as manager. Now somehow we have to take these opinions with any credibility.

 

[Leftback99]

Rival fans also think all of players are useless. Even Bruno is just a penalty merchant, Maguire is a joke, Fred terrible. But yet we still finished 3rd with a manager they see as a laughing stock, go figure.

 

[Andycoleno9]

And basically their is the problem, the oppo fans are going the thinking for you.

Yeah, that is the case .

 

[roonster09]

Rival fans also think all of players are useless. Even Bruno is just a penalty merchant, Maguire is a joke, Fred terrible. But yet we still finished 3rd with a manager they see as a laughing stock, go figure.

Exactly. Funny how people who are concerned about rival fans opinion and take their opnion on manager as truth doesn't apply the same logic when rating the players.

 

[georgipep]

@georgipep

strange angry reply, I asked to be educated, I have an 18 month at home and the missus is back at work, so I don’t have time to compile the league results of 16 teams throughout Europe. You seemed desperate to show me the light though.

Looking at that updated table.... erm, hang on???

I was about to say, I’m clearly wrong and cheers for doing that but what the feck?

We won 4 of our first 6 league games this season??? What the hell is going on with that table? If we won four of our first 6 in the league, why was anyone complaining and why was anyone needing to defend it with “poor pre-season” being the reason? Is this some bizarre head feck?

You do realise that people were defending our shit start in the league with the fact that we had a poor pre-season?

No-one gave a feck that we beat Luton in the Carabao cup.

Again, you are free to do the analysis on the first X number of league games. Maybe there is a magic number where your narrative works? I doubt it and to me it is pretty obvious that there is a more than reasonable argument to be made about the lack of pre-season and rest to have hampered the performance of the clubs who were involved in the late stages of the European competitions.

But hey, it's only me and my silly facts. You do you.

 

[VP89]

What rival fans think means feck all. Most of them just look for banter.

The same posters who are worshipping jose now used to mock ManUtd for hiring jose as manager. Now somehow we have to take these opinions with any credibility.

This is true

 

[Footy van de Geek]

I took great joy in Dalglish's return, who even reached 2 cup finals (won 1 of them) and brought Suárez to the club. Not all bad. He also bought Henderson tbf. So his brief spell did help those who came next.

But I knew there wasn't a hope in hell of him winning a title.

Lots of my Liverpool supporting mates say United remind them of themselves and Liverpool every season for 20 odd years. Thinking every new good spell was the turning point that would lead to the promise land. They get the same feeling with us and Ole. Ole is at the wheel is a meme at this point.

You see it on here all the time.

Ole might not be good enough in the long term, but will have at least left some good players to work with. Bruno in particular.

 

[VP89]

In fairness toward Ole, whilst doubting him as a long term at the club, I don't think even doubters like me can argue with the fact that he's taken the club to a better place than where it was before he joined. And that he's brought in players that fit the ethos of the club, and one that fans would identify with too. I don't think Dalglish even did that @Footy van de Geek

 

[Strelok]

I don't think you were around at that time, before Klopp joined Liverpool, United fans all loved him to be the next manager. Then he became Liverpool manager and the outlook changed, we all wanted him to fail and tried to turn him into a banter manager.
No rival fan wanted Ole as manager before he came to us (in fact they probably didn't even know he was still active). And right now, well, they don't much think he's a threat.

We're discussing about using opponent fans opinion to judge your manager I think?

 

[Karlos PFC]

Our squad was labeled not good enough before Ole took over. The fact that people like you and opposition fans now think our squad is really good should tell you the positive impact he has done building our team, something Moyes, LVG & Mourinho couldn’t do. Knows the area he needs to improve, capable to improve players that were labeled as not good enough under Mourinho & develop young talented players. These unrecognised things by the Ole out actually changed people’s perspective on our squad and increased the value of our squad.

The really frustrating thing I read in most Ole-in posters (not you in particular, just happened to read your post) is the belief that Mourinho couldn't built a team and didn't know which area needed improving. Really? Mourinho ? The guy has won major titles in every league he's managed. He won the Champions League with Porto with peanuts. Van Gaal, though I love the guy he was past it and Moyes, well don't get me started with the destroyer of worlds.

 

[Footy van de Geek]

Rival fans also think all of players are useless. Even Bruno is just a penalty merchant, Maguire is a joke, Fred terrible. But yet we still finished 3rd with a manager they see as a laughing stock, go figure.

Not every rival fan is like that. Especially in real life. On Twitter, yeah. Because there are fans with literal accounts dedicated to a player. Martial FC, for example. Constantly bantering with Arsenal fans about Lacazette. You get Arsenal fans saying that Martinelli is better than Greenwood. Some Chelsea fans are diehard Mount fans. Others fans shit on him. Bruno scoring lots of penalties is an easy dig. Like how some United fans had a go at Lampard and Gerrard for taking them compared to Scholes who didn't.

Maguire can be a trainwreck at times. I have no problem with that.

 

[VP89]

We're discussing about using opponent fans opinion to judge your manager I think?

Yeah and you brought up Klopp where he was wanted by our fans. It's not really comparable is it, unless Ole was one of the top up and coming managers of the world, wanted by many clubs before he joined United.

 

[Footy van de Geek]

Yeah and you brought up Klopp where he was wanted by our fans. It's not really comparable is it, unless Ole was one of the top up and coming managers of the world, wanted by many clubs before he joined United.

Ole would still be in Norway waiting for a call had he not been given a lifeline in the form of the interim position. And even then, most top clubs would have dismissed him at the end of the season for such a poor run after PSG away. Classic Woodward. All he had to to do was assess the season in June. Ex players like Rio helped put pressure on for him to be hired.

And here we are now 20 months on from his contract signing. Still very up and down.

 

[Flexdegea]

Yeah, that is the case .

Their is always massive doses of irony when rival fans talk.


One being as you said they laugh at the Manager and dont rate him. PE Teacher etc

But on the other hand they literally rate none of our players either and think Maguire is the worse defender alive, rashford a fast dinner lady, bruno is only a penalty merchant, shaw is fat, fred 'lol', the list is endless.


So going by oppo views oul Ole must be working miracles getting into champs league as we haven't done that too much in 8 years, or the squad is actually world class all along.




To be honest you could apply that section of united men too.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Again, you are free to do the analysis on the first X number of league games. Maybe there is a magic number where your narrative works?

I don’t need a magic number, it wasn’t my excuse or my narrative. I was disappointed with the start and thought the excuses/narrative were bollocks.

The excuses started after the Arsenal defeat, our 6th league game. And apparently that was the no pre-season effect over because our results have then picked up.
After 6 games when the knives really came out and this excuse followed, United were 15th with 7 points.

I was hoping you were gonna “prove” the excuse was in fact, a valid reason and that I’m a bit rash and clueless @georgipep

 

[Strelok]

Yeah and you brought up Klopp where he was wanted by our fans. It's not really comparable is it, unless Ole was one of the top up and coming managers of the world, wanted by many clubs before he joined United.

We're discussing whether it's valid to use opponent's fans to judge your current manager. Not before he became your current manager. You don't see the difference?

We wanted Klopp before he became Liverpool manager. Then we were laughing out loud at that same guy after he became Liverpool manager. Do you see the point here? How can we trust rival and opponent fans opponent to judge your current manager? They all looking for some banter and a chance to mock you, your manager and your club. So did us. Do you get it now?