Are you Anti-Racist or Pro-Racist?

AFC NimbleThumb

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It’s been a long time since I darkened the Current Events forum [far too many hours wasted in early lockdown in the George Floyd thread] but saw this & thought it was s worth slightly more than a Karen thread post. . .


Not even posting for debate; I’m also not particularly shocked but the fact this non-mask wearing school board member can’t answer the question shows not only is the current generation in peril but the following ones are just as f’d.

Simple questions require simple answers.
 

Vidyoyo

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The question is stupid though. If she says she's pro-racist then all debate from thereon becomes about character. If she says she's anti-racist then it proves nothing because it's such an easy answer.
 

Penna

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It would be helpful to hear what came before the question, because as it stands it seems ridiculous that someone on a school board would say anything but "anti-racist".
 

Cascarino

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The question is stupid though. If she says she's pro-racist then all debate from thereon becomes about character. If she says she's anti-racist then it proves nothing because it's such an easy answer.
I mean yeah if she’s pro-racist then her character should be called into question. It’s a really simple question, are you for racism or are you against racism, I don’t see how someone could struggle with that like she did.
 

Striker10

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When you talk about Racism, it's not a simple conversation because there are different forms of racism. It's difficult from the perspective that often you don't know what perspective someones articulating from or they switch perspectives to 'win' the argument. All the isms however, are from the pit of hell. But I don't believe they're fought against. I believe they're promoted. Personally, i'm against it but I feel a distinction has to be made. Also context. We saw with Edison situation, you need context and understanding of situations. You can encapsulate moments that suit agendas but you always have to try to see the bigger picture I feel.

Take systemic racism for example. That is a very difficult question because you can be 'white' and racist purely because you're white and whites are called lots of names that highlight that agenda. So it's not a simple question. These things never are. What they really want to do, is stop people from giving it much thought and yes discussion.
 
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sebsheep

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I think I'll throw my lot in with the anti-racist side. It is a pretty simple question. Couldn't really comment on the actual discussion as I don't know what they were really talking about.
 

Vidyoyo

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I mean yeah if she’s pro-racist then her character should be called into question. It’s a really simple question, are you for racism or are you against racism, I don’t see how someone could struggle with that like she did.
Yeah, she should have shut it down by giving a simple answer but I don't always blame people for ignoring absolute questions in interviews (or debates as it is here). It tends to happen quite a lot on the radio where the interviewer asks a loaded question and the responder goes into a long-winded explanation before being re-demanded a simpler answer like what they said just didn't matter. I hate listening because I think it's precisely what stifles proper debate.

Are you in favour of poverty or not?

Well actually... (all this stuff; some of it relevant and some not).

Yeah but are you in favour of poverty or not?

I'm completely against poverty

Thanks for your time (audience learns nothing)


If I were asked that question I'd be thinking several things:

1 - Do I consider myself racist or not?
2 - Does what I say matter, as ultimately perception of me by others is what construes the negative connotations of being racist or anti-racist
3 - How will my answer help me get into the territory I really want to get into during this debate

That said, I'm a bit wary of sounding like I'm defending this woman. She's probably an idiot as she's not wearing a mask.
 
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PoTMS

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Hmmm tough one. I think I'll have to get back to you on that one. /s
 

Cascarino

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Yeah, she should have shut it down by giving a simple answer but I don't always blame people for ignoring absolute questions in interviews (or debates as it is here). It tends to happen quite a lot on the radio where the interviewer asks a loaded question and the responder goes into a long-winded explanation before being re-demanded a simpler answer like what they said just didn't matter. I hate listening because I think it's precisely what stifles proper debate.

Are you in favour of poverty or not?

Well actually... (all this stuff; some of it relevant and some not).

Yeah but are you in favour of poverty or not?

I'm completely against poverty

Thanks for your time (audience learns nothing)


If I were asked that question I'd be thinking several things:

1 - Do I consider myself racist or not?
2 - Does what I say matter, as ultimately perception of me by others is what construes the negative connotations of being racist or anti-racist
3 - How will my answer help me get into the territory I really want to get into during this debate

That said, I'm a bit wary of sounding like I'm defending this woman. She's probably an idiot as she's not wearing a mask.
Nah I do know what you mean when you mention the cases where a debate gets boiled down into a very simplified question. I just found it really weird how badly she handled it, i imagine before the clip started they’d disagreed on what action to take, but she could have answered and qualified it with a “I am very anti-racist but I feel that we differ on the best way to achieve those goals” or something along those lines. A very weird hill to die on.
 

Sky1981

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If an american ask that I'd use my fifth to refuse to answer. You never know which 50 percent asking you that question.

Take the Cavani debate, if it boils down to cavani is racist. Are you pro or anti racist. I dont think i can answer that simply because i know what the next line would be.
 

oates

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If an american ask that I'd use my fifth to refuse to answer. You never know which 50 percent asking you that question.

Take the Cavani debate, if it boils down to cavani is racist. Are you pro or anti racist. I dont think i can answer that simply because i know what the next line would be.
Not having a pop but are you saying that you would be wary of answering depending on who was asking?
 

1950

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What does pro-racist even mean? Is it any different than just, you know, racist?
 

Sky1981

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Not having a pop but are you saying that you would be wary of answering depending on who was asking?
Yes. I've had many instances where it turns out that my idea of what's right and wrong differs alot (recent example cavani case) and it's one thing arguin over the internet. It's another risking my neck being political in a heated environment. You never knew if the other party was a radical militant or a racist himself.

And that question always comes up with the next line.

Are you a racist? No I'm not.

So you agree cavani should get banned?

Do you support murder? No.

So you're not ok with abortion?

Taken in isolation that is a simple question, but we dont live in vacuum

Racism is wrong. But the problem always lies in determining what's racist and what's not.
 
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oates

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Yes. I've had many instances where it turns out that my idea of what's right and wrong differs alot (recent example cavani case) and it's one thing arguin over the internet. It's another risking my neck being political in a heated environment. You never knew if the other party was a radical militant or a racist himself.

And that question always comes up with the next line.

Are you a racist? No I'm not.

So you agree cavani should get banned?

Do you support murder? No.

So you're not ok with abortion?

Taken in isolation that is a simple question, but we dont live in vacuum
The thing is that I asked whether your answer depended on who was asking, to which you said yes, and then went on to excuse yourself with 'It depends on what the next question is'. which by the way shouldn't matter, but the two are different things.
 

OleBoiii

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What does pro-racist even mean?
I'm confused as well.

Also, racists are notorious for claiming to be everything but racist. They hate that word. Practically no one, racist or not, would claim to be pro-racist.
 

Pexbo

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I am anti-racist but admittedly I haven’t done much academic research on the subject so I’m a little bit ignorant. Maybe there’s a good reason to be racist that I’ve missed all this time. I’m open to being educated on the subject though I don’t expect my opinion to be changed.
 

hungrywing

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The question is stupid though. If she says she's pro-racist then all debate from thereon becomes about character. If she says she's anti-racist then it proves nothing because it's such an easy answer.
It gets depressing about the third or fourth time she bleats it while the 'bad woman' is actually responding on a higher level of thought (albeit not much higher).

Yeah, she should have shut it down by giving a simple answer but I don't always blame people for ignoring absolute questions in interviews (or debates as it is here). It tends to happen quite a lot on the radio where the interviewer asks a loaded question and the responder goes into a long-winded explanation before being re-demanded a simpler answer like what they said just didn't matter. I hate listening because I think it's precisely what stifles proper debate.

Are you in favour of poverty or not?

Well actually... (all this stuff; some of it relevant and some not).

Yeah but are you in favour of poverty or not?

I'm completely against poverty

Thanks for your time (audience learns nothing)


If I were asked that question I'd be thinking several things:

1 - Do I consider myself racist or not?
2 - Does what I say matter, as ultimately perception of me by others is what construes the negative connotations of being racist or anti-racist
3 - How will my answer help me get into the territory I really want to get into during this debate

That said, I'm a bit wary of sounding like I'm defending this woman. She's probably an idiot as she's not wearing a mask.
Thumbs up.
 

Striker10

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Pro racist and racist amount to the same but the spectrum is different. You can be racist and an island in and of yourself and you can be a racist that not only internalise but also support others actively who are racist. A pro advocate.
 

Sky1981

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The thing is that I asked whether your answer depended on who was asking, to which you said yes, and then went on to excuse yourself with 'It depends on what the next question is'. which by the way shouldn't matter, but the two are different things.
Put it this way. I'd shrug and wiggle and distract myself from whoever asking me that.

Probably throw a very clear politically correct answer and stay the hell away
 

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I'm confused as well.

Also, racists are notorious for claiming to be everything but racist. They hate that word. Practically no one, racist or not, would claim to be pro-racist.
I'm not a racist, but.....
 

Striker10

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Trump voters are Pro-Racist.
Yes, because the idea is that when you put your nation first that amounts to nationalism which is a racist idea or that's the narrative. America is a good example actually but it's also a dangerous idea because it creates movements that push against it. Then you have people who are patriotic fight against nationalists which should be the same thing but are diometrically opposed because of an forever changing demographic.

However when you boil it down, Biden voters would be Pro-Racist also because they are basically at war. It does not matter what the other says.......there is no seeking middle ground. It's a lot of psychological foreplay but it's both sides. It's not one only
 
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Maticmaker

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When you talk about Racism, it's not a simple conversation because there are different forms of racism.
It isn't what form racism takes, all forms of racism are abhorrent at least to most people, what can vary is the context in which someone is seen to act, or where someone accuses another person of acting in a racist manner. The current debate over Cavani's message to a friend is a good example.

I didn't see what went before, but was a definition of racism (as alluded to by the questioner) given prior to the question? Surely that would have given a better basis for asking such a question and any further follow up questioning thereafter?
 

bsCallout

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Trump voters are Pro-Racist.
This is plain ignorance.

Some Trump voters are Pro-Racist, many others are level-headed people that wanted a change and found a way to be heard. This includes plenty of Latinos and poor white people from the South who feel ostracised in their country.
 

UweBein

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I am anti-racist but admittedly I haven’t done much academic research on the subject so I’m a little bit ignorant. Maybe there’s a good reason to be racist that I’ve missed all this time. I’m open to being educated on the subject though I don’t expect my opinion to be changed.
I was wondering whether she meant that we all react instinctively in a racist way, which is kind of true for the most people. It comes natural to us to differentiate people based on their skin colour or other visible characteristics. In that sense everyone is a racist.
 

Zlatan 7

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Nah I do know what you mean when you mention the cases where a debate gets boiled down into a very simplified question. I just found it really weird how badly she handled it, i imagine before the clip started they’d disagreed on what action to take, but she could have answered and qualified it with a “I am very anti-racist but I feel that we differ on the best way to achieve those goals” or something along those lines. A very weird hill to die on.
“I’m anti racist but...” is what people get mocked for
 

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This is plain ignorance.

Some Trump voters are Pro-Racist, many others are level-headed people that wanted a change and found a way to be heard. This includes plenty of Latinos and poor white people from the South who feel ostracised in their country.
Reading something AND understanding it often helps on the internet.
 

bsCallout

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I was wondering whether she meant that we all react instinctively in a racist way, which is kind of true for the most people. It comes natural to us to differentiate people based on their skin colour or other visible characteristics. In that sense everyone is a racist.
I'm anti-racist but probably racist be default, I have built in prejudice that will have me sometimes acknowledge someone based on their colour.

For example - X is fast . . . because he's black.

It's not because he's black, but through conditioning or whatever I can't help think it.

I watched Evander Holyfield hotboxing with Tyson yesterday and he said he never thought a white boy could fight, even though his coach was white, until he got beat and kept losing to a white kid. He cried.

I've no doubt he still fancies himself against white people > black people. Built in prejudice, even if he isn't racist.
 

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“I’m anti racist but...” is what people get mocked for
I was strictly speaking in the (Hypothetical as we can’t see what was said before the clip starts) context of them disagreeing over a certain action to take.
 

sebsheep

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I was wondering whether she meant that we all react instinctively in a racist way, which is kind of true for the most people. It comes natural to us to differentiate people based on their skin colour or other visible characteristics. In that sense everyone is a racist.
That's why I'm also anti-people.
 

Cascarino

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I was wondering whether she meant that we all react instinctively in a racist way, which is kind of true for the most people. It comes natural to us to differentiate people based on their skin colour or other visible characteristics. In that sense everyone is a racist.
Even if that was the case in her thinking (I don’t think it was) that could be true and you’d still absolutely be able to be anti-racist.
 

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A binary question, asked in such a manner, about a complex subject, usually suggests that the questioner has a desired response in mind. Often with a backup retort if it goes differently, that may be similarly damaging.

Best response would be, "I am not racist." (If she isn't.)