Are you Anti-Racist or Pro-Racist?

[Zlatan 7]

I was strictly speaking in the (Hypothetical as we can’t see what was said before the clip starts) context of them disagreeing over a certain action to take.

I see that but even if that woman went with the I’m anti racist but line she would still get hounded for the but. Not as much admittedly and I agree she should have just said the obvious with a but if she had a point she wanted to make.

 

[KirkDuyt]

This is a bit like asking are you pro murdering unborn children or anti murdering unborn children. What is the point of the question?

 

[Cascarino]

I see that but even if that woman went with the I’m anti racist but line she would still get hounded for the but. Not as much admittedly and I agree she should have just said the obvious with a but if she had a point she wanted to make.

Fair point about the ‘but’ it doesn’t work particularly well, but just take it out and have “I am firmly anti racist and that’s why I’m committed to combatting racism with the plans I’ve proposed” (If in this hypothetical scenario she was worried about a ‘gotcha’ moment and thats why was so oddly hesitant about the question).

I think she just should have answered the question with I am anti-racist and if the person asking the question was going somewhere with it I don’t think It matters too much, it’s a lot better to reaffirm your opposition to racism than to hesitate over a pretty clear cut question

 

[Lyricist]

I'm a big fan of pro football and other pro sports but I've always hated racism. Racists were mostly hiding in their underground scene as far as I know before Trump, but the fact they're going all professional now definitely is a worry.

Then again it's quite fitting really. Their league could be called the NRA.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Fair point about the ‘but’ it doesn’t work particularly well, but just take it out and have “I am firmly anti racist and that’s why I’m committed to combatting racism with the plans I’ve proposed” (If in this hypothetical scenario she was worried about a ‘gotcha’ moment and thats why was so oddly hesitant about the question).

I think she just should have answered the question with I am anti-racist and if the person asking the question was going somewhere with it I don’t think It matters too much, it’s a lot better to reaffirm your opposition to racism than to hesitate over a pretty clear cut question

Yep, pretty much

 

[GiddyUp]

This is plain ignorance.

Some Trump voters are Pro-Racist, many others are level-headed people that wanted a change and found a way to be heard. This includes plenty of Latinos and poor white people from the South who feel ostracised in their country.

So they vote for a racist who ostracized them even further. The people you mentioned may not be racist but they are fecking idiots.

 

[Striker10]

It isn't what form racism takes, all forms of racism are abhorrent at least to most people, what can vary is the context in which someone is seen to act, or where someone accuses another person of acting in a racist manner. The current debate over Cavani's message to a friend is a good example.

I didn't see what went before, but was a definition of racism (as alluded to by the questioner) given prior to the question? Surely that would have given a better basis for asking such a question and any further follow up questioning thereafter?

If everyone were honest? Then it makes things easier. If everyone were honest, we could have discussions that were far more constructive. The world is a dishonest place. It's true about the Cavani situation and it's a good example to use for sure but even if we say it's innocent, you get people with their own agendas who push the narrative. We understand he was naive but that's not enough for the dishonest people who muddy the waters and it's these people who complicate the discussion because it don't just stop at football. They have an inability to be honest because they are so determined to prove a point that they only accept how they look at the world.

Usually they'll throw a net because a net snares people. I don't believe we live in a mature enough culture to have a real conversation. It's quite volatile. Everything is political. But these questions are so loaded and you never really know a persons bias. In addition, when you get videos like this, they're moments in time. Who knows what was said prior or after. And more to the point, why should the average person even care? We live in a world, where the world seems to want us to care about all these things and it's really important that we care else we're guilty of said ism'. Well, you go down that path and it's censorship. It's such a dangerous game people play.

 

[Sky1981]

Fair point about the ‘but’ it doesn’t work particularly well, but just take it out and have “I am firmly anti racist and that’s why I’m committed to combatting racism with the plans I’ve proposed” (If in this hypothetical scenario she was worried about a ‘gotcha’ moment and thats why was so oddly hesitant about the question).

I think she just should have answered the question with I am anti-racist and if the person asking the question was going somewhere with it I don’t think It matters too much, it’s a lot better to reaffirm your opposition to racism than to hesitate over a pretty clear cut question

It's a heated debate. And with eggshells all over. We had time to think, she doesnt.

I still think it's unfair to cut to that section without seeing the bigger picture.

And she does have a point. It is too nuanced to think in binary. The question could be should we suspend x because she made an arguably racist joke in her native language? If she disagree they shouldnt and asked with are you pro or anti racist it's a no win question

 

[Smores]

It's a heated debate. And with eggshells all over. We had time to think, she doesnt.

I still think it's unfair to cut to that section without seeing the bigger picture.

And she does have a point. It is too nuanced to think in binary. The question could be should we suspend x because she made an arguably racist joke in her native language? If she disagree they shouldnt and asked with are you pro or anti racist it's a no win question

No it isn't too nuanced for binary answers. The answer is anti-racist and any other questions then have their own merits and nuance.

 

[dumbo]

Striker10 at the intersection of Hegel and Shooby Taylor.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The question is stupid though. If she says she's pro-racist then all debate from thereon becomes about character. If she says she's anti-racist then it proves nothing because it's such an easy answer.

Hmm. . . not really. It’s a rather simple one that people try to add further layers to.

I wonder if the same whataboutisms would be had if the question were say; “are you pro-peadophilia?”, it is only a sexual preference after all. . .

A binary question, asked in such a manner, about a complex subject, usually suggests that the questioner has a desired response in mind. Often with a backup retort if it goes differently, that may be similarly damaging.

Best response would be, "I am not racist." (If she isn't.)

Time to try out the above. . .

Are you pro-peadophilia or anti-peadophilia?

“I’m not a peadophile”

Are you pro-rape or anti-rape?

“I’m not a rapist”

Guess it’s the binary questions that are the issue there and here I was thinking people could be anti-racism/racist & not be a racist. . . when in fact it’s asking the question that’s the problem.

The focus is always on the ‘binary’ question but rarely on what kind of human being do you need to be to get asked the question.

The best answer is the truthful one of course. She could have said “I’m pro racism” instead she’s says it’s a difficult question, which again - it is not.

Complex subjects don’t always need complex answers - if the desired response was “I am pro-racism” & that was indeed the authentic response then I fail to see why the question being binary is the problem.

This is a bit like asking are you pro murdering unborn children or anti murdering unborn children. What is the point of the question?

Fair point had the response been “what’s the point?”, instead it was some nonsense about it being a difficult question to answer which it really isn’t though it might have been irrelevant.

It's a heated debate. And with eggshells all over. We had time to think, she doesnt.

I still think it's unfair to cut to that section without seeing the bigger picture.

And she does have a point. It is too nuanced to think in binary. The question could be should we suspend x because she made an arguably racist joke in her native language? If she disagree they shouldnt and asked with are you pro or anti racist it's a no win question

Are all binary questions useless? Seems to be the only defence here & I’m baffled.

She has the opportunity to say, “I’m pro-racism” she could even side step & give a more nuanced answer instead she says it’s a difficult question. . . no it’s not.

 

[The Firestarter]

Striker10 at the intersection of Hegel and Shooby Taylor.

How is he not yet banned probably every mod has him on ignore.

 

[krautrøck]

Striker10 at the intersection of Hegel and Shooby Taylor.

The Phenomenology of "Spirit" if you know what I mean.

 

[nimic]

What they really want to do, is stop people from giving it much thought and yes discussion.

Who is they, and what discussion do they not want people to have? Please be as specific as possible.

 

[Sky1981]

Hmm. . . not really. It’s a rather simple one that people try to add further layers to.

I wonder if the same whataboutisms would be had if the question were say; “are you pro-peadophilia?”, it is only a sexual preference after all. . .


Time to try out the above. . .

Are you pro-peadophilia or anti-peadophilia?

“I’m not a peadophile”

Are you pro-rape or anti-rape?

“I’m not a rapist”

Guess it’s the binary questions that are the issue there and here I was thinking people could be anti-racism/racist & not be a racist. . . when in fact it’s asking the question that’s the problem.

The focus is always on the ‘binary’ question but rarely on what kind of human being do you need to be to get asked the question.

The best answer is the truthful one of course. She could have said “I’m pro racism” instead she’s says it’s a difficult question, which again - it is not.

Complex subjects don’t always need complex answers - if the desired response was “I am pro-racism” & that was indeed the authentic response then I fail to see why the question being binary is the problem.


Fair point had the response been “what’s the point?”, instead it was some nonsense about it being a difficult question to answer which it really isn’t though it might have been irrelevant.


Are all binary questions useless? Seems to be the only defence here & I’m baffled.

She has the opportunity to say, “I’m pro-racism” she could even side step & give a more nuanced answer instead she says it’s a difficult question. . . no it’s not.

This is why I don't like to debate about subject like this, you really can't even offer some thoughts or reason, you'd either have to be A and that's that, failing that you're B. In my point I've even already stated that I don't know the prelude to that section, it could be something gray.

But sure, if it makes you feel you're right and everything else is wrong.

 

[bsCallout]

So they vote for a racist who ostracized them even further. The people you mentioned may not be racist but they are fecking idiots.

So they aren't all pro-racist then. Remember the alternative was also Hilary first time round, it's not too bizarre to understand why so many unheard people would vote against her.

One thing voting for Trump did achieve is a larger sense of a very unhappy population that the Democrats shouldn't ignore.

So perhaps not that stupid. Time will tell.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Pro-racists aren't my favourite but I wish them well!

 

[Carolina Red]

It’s been a long time since I darkened the Current Events forum [far too many hours wasted in early lockdown in the George Floyd thread] but saw this & thought it was s worth slightly more than a Karen thread post. . .


Not even posting for debate; I’m also not particularly shocked but the fact this non-mask wearing school board member can’t answer the question shows not only is the current generation in peril but the following ones are just as f’d.

Simple questions require simple answers.

That school board member would be pissed to have seen the lesson that my classroom next door neighbor (newly elected teacher of the year) and I (current teacher of the year) taught yesterday on ethnicity, race, racism, and prejudice.

 

[Striker10]

Who is they, and what discussion do they not want people to have? Please be as specific as possible.

A conversation is two sides or all sides being able to get their point across in a civil manner. Is that fair? We see it all the time. You get the drama queens whose position is down well before you even offer an opinion. Unless we all think that no one actually thinks anything and we just react on whims? You always get people in different states. We can't even talk about consoles without there being wars let alone something as sensitive as race. We don't need specifics.

 

[oates]

This is a bit like asking are you pro murdering unborn children or anti murdering unborn children. What is the point of the question?

I think it's the sort of thing you'd like to know about anyone in authority, especially concerning your kids.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

This is why I don't like to debate about subject like this, you really can't even offer some thoughts or reason, you'd either have to be A and that's that, failing that you're B. In my point I've even already stated that I don't know the prelude to that section, it could be something gray.

But sure, if it makes you feel you're right and everything else is wrong.

I posted this here for the exact waffle.

There is no debate, I’m neither right nor wrong. If you’re asked whether you are pro-racist or anti-racist then want to tie the question up as being binary you’re an idiot; not right or wrong - you’re a cretin.

There is no grey area. Let’s say there’s 3 options. anti, pro or not bothered. How is any other answer than anti acceptable in this context?

But yes it’s all about being right or wrong and a binary line of questioning.

There are certain questions that don’t need explicit long explanations & reasoning; if someone can’t say that they are against the discrimination of others based on ‘race’ then there’s very little more that needs to be said.

 

[Striker10]

Striker10 at the intersection of Hegel and Shooby Taylor.

What for?..

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

That school board member would be pissed to have seen the lesson that my classroom next door neighbor (newly elected teacher of the year) and I (current teacher of the year) taught yesterday on ethnicity, race, racism, and prejudice.

Was it pro-racist or anti-racist?

 

[Carolina Red]

Was it pro-racist or anti-racist?

“Well, you see, it was, umm, [insert non-coherent Latin]”

 

[Maticmaker]

If everyone were honest? Then it makes things easier. If everyone were honest, we could have discussions that were far more constructive. The world is a dishonest place. It's true about the Cavani situation and it's a good example to use for sure but even if we say it's innocent, you get people with their own agendas who push the narrative. We understand he was naive but that's not enough for the dishonest people who muddy the waters and it's these people who complicate the discussion because it don't just stop at football. They have an inability to be honest because they are so determined to prove a point that they only accept how they look at the world.

Usually they'll throw a net because a net snares people. I don't believe we live in a mature enough culture to have a real conversation. It's quite volatile. Everything is political. But these questions are so loaded and you never really know a persons bias. In addition, when you get videos like this, they're moments in time. Who knows what was said prior or after. And more to the point, why should the average person even care? We live in a world, where the world seems to want us to care about all these things and it's really important that we care else we're guilty of said ism'. Well, you go down that path and it's censorship. It's such a dangerous game people play.

Spot on, couldn't agree more, excellent comments

 

[krautrøck]

What for?..

Quoting the wrong post.

 

[Carolina Red]

This is a bit like asking are you pro murdering unborn children or anti murdering unborn children. What is the point of the question?

I obviously don't know the full context of that specific exchange, but just from my experience, I've come across folks that think schools should teach that there were positive benefits of chattel slavery for the enslaved.

 

[Sky1981]

I posted this here for the exact waffle.

There is no debate, I’m neither right nor wrong. If you’re asked whether you are pro-racist or anti-racist then want to tie the question up as being binary you’re an idiot; not right or wrong - you’re a cretin.

There is no grey area. Let’s say there’s 3 options. anti, pro or not bothered. How is any other answer than anti acceptable in this context?

But yes it’s all about being right or wrong and a binary line of questioning.

There are certain questions that don’t need explicit long explanations & reasoning; if someone can’t say that they are against the discrimination of others based on ‘race’ then there’s very little more that needs to be said.

Putting you on ignore. I don't have the time to argue with people who resorts to petty name.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Putting you on ignore. I don't have the time to argue with people who resorts to petty name.

Racists = Cretins & that’s the word that drew his ire.

Red Cafe, the place where the cretins reveal themselves.

A lot of people block others in the CE Forum, I wonder why. . .

 

[KirkDuyt]

Fair point had the response been “what’s the point?”, instead it was some nonsense about it being a difficult question to answer which it really isn’t though it might have been irrelevant.

I havent watched the clip to be fair. My point was more that any sane person is obviously anti racist. If the responder found that a difficult answer to gove, they're obviously a wacko.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I obviously don't know the full context of that specific exchange, but just from my experience, I've come across folks that think schools should teach that there were positive benefits of chattel slavery for the enslaved.

Yeah fair enough, some people hold crazy beliefs. As I mentioned above, I probably shouldve watched the video before commenting, because I have now and the response is ridiculous.

 

[GiddyUp]

So they aren't all pro-racist then. Remember the alternative was also Hilary first time round, it's not too bizarre to understand why so many unheard people would vote against her.

One thing voting for Trump did achieve is a larger sense of a very unhappy population that the Democrats shouldn't ignore.

So perhaps not that stupid. Time will tell.

And if Clinton won we wouldn't have the shit show like the last four years or a right leaning judiciary that will feck over most, especially poor trump supporters. This unhappy population decided that a person like trump was their guy and he did feck all for them because they are not the investor class. Like I said, fecking idiots.

 

[KirkDuyt]

So they aren't all pro-racist then. Remember the alternative was also Hilary first time round, it's not too bizarre to understand why so many unheard people would vote against her.

One thing voting for Trump did achieve is a larger sense of a very unhappy population that the Democrats shouldn't ignore.

So perhaps not that stupid. Time will tell.

The first time you can give some of his voters a pass and blame it on ignorance or whatever, but everyone who voted for Trump after 4 years of Trump should be disqualified from participating in a democracy.

Yes, I do love making sweeping dictatorial elitist statements, but as a great (albeit short) philosopher once said: facts dont care about feelings.

 

[bsCallout]

The first time you can give some of his voters a pass and blame it on ignorance or whatever, but everyone who voted for Trump after 4 years of Trump should be disqualified from participating in a democracy.

Yes, I do love making sweeping dictatorial elitist statements, but as a great (albeit short) philosopher once said: facts dont care about feelings.

Haha. I'm not going to disagree though.

 

[bsCallout]

And if Clinton won we wouldn't have the shit show like the last four years or a right leaning judiciary that will feck over most, especially poor trump supporters. This unhappy population decided that a person like trump was their guy and he did feck all for them because they are not the investor class. Like I said, fecking idiots.

Probably agree but still not pro-racist. At least lets level the correct insult at them so you dont stoop to their level of ignorance and/or intelligence.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Haha. I'm not going to disagree though.

You're not? That's no fun

 

[WI_Red]

I obviously don't know the full context of that specific exchange, but just from my experience, I've come across folks that think schools should teach that there were positive benefits of chattel slavery for the enslaved.

On the flip side a friend of mine in California who teaches HS got into a heated debate with an admin regarding the founding fathers. The admin wanted her to frame the entire conversation around how horrible they were (admittedly some/most likely were) and to eliminate any nuance from the lesson plan as to what the role they played in the revolution and subsequent founding of the country. In terms of this thread it was basically a "if you say anything good about George Washington you are pro-racist".

 

[JPRouve]

I havent watched the clip to be fair. My point was more that any sane person is obviously anti racist. If the responder found that a difficult answer to gove, they're obviously a wacko.

Everyone knows his answer. Racists struggle to answer in public though, which makes this thread and numerous posts interesting.

 

[krautrøck]

Probably agree but still not pro-racist. At least lets level the correct insult at them so you dont stoop to their level of ignorance and/or intelligence.

A vote for Trump is literally Pro-Racist, which was the original point. If you voted for him, you voted for (pro) a plain and simple lifelong racist, no matter how you want to dress that up otherwise.

 

[Bebestation]

What I dont get is how can people be "pro-racist" and not even understand that they themselves are the ones in the wrong country? Fine be racist but atleast do it in your own country if your going to stop all the sharing and caring amongst various groups of people from different cultures and races.

America is arguably a Native American's country and yet there is arguably a good amount of a racist sector believing that the country was and is always theirs.

That's why this education cant happen - it will only lead to more delusion and a rewriting of history.