chasing a game for an equaliser. Should he have tried to wind down the clock and just take defeat. Lots to criticise the manager for tonight (well not taking off Fred) -but this is a pretty pathetic attempt.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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See my reply to the other guy. That is not how it works. If the next tackle is bordering to a yellow(but it's not clear) then you can compensate. But this was probably not even a freekick!
Refs make mistakes and VAR can't look at a yellow. Ole should have considered that.
You expect Ole to control every phase of play and prevent every chance? We should have taken ours. Their second goal was actually offside as well.
This after being a miserable man for three weeks I said let’s get behind this.
Don’t know why I like to repeat my mistakes. I’m convinced I’m insane.
I'll agree that there's no need for two Ole threads. Either this one or the one in performance forum. Mods should choose only one to leave open to unite discussions about him.
But imo the whole toxicity of this forum comes from the fact some here can't withstand hearing different opinions than them. They can't withstand some saying different opinion on a manager or player.
But that is how it works though isn't it? Fred made a clean tackle that wasn't a foul considering he got the ball first, and even if it *was* a foul, it certainly wasn't a yellow.
The referee had his mind made up immediately and didn't hesitate.
Everyone knew it would happen as soon as Fred made any type of tackle, and given the position he plays the role he has in the team keeping him on the pitch for as long as Ole did is pure incompetence.
Pretty big thing to get wrong - one that ended up being game changing. I think we would have salvaged a draw had it not been for that red. Also Ole's in game management was not good today either - not making a sub until we were one goal and one man down is another thing he fecked up. We needed to freshen things up and the players who had looked poor needed to be subbed.
I disagree, I think we looked miles the better team and facied us for an equaliser.
I’m not so arsed tonight, as I’ve told you guys loads, playing good, entertaining football to the level our squad is capable of is all I need from United and the management. Tonight was a shame, but I enjoyed that a million more times than I enjoyed the WBA win.
Problem is you don't get any points for being competitive, we actually need to start turning performances into results. The Sevilla game and again tonight makes me doubt our potential mettle in Europe and I absolutely do not want another year in the EL.
That's just not true at all. If Martial scores we go 2-1 up and at that point Ole would have been more comfortable with taking Fred off. Had Martial scored, it's very unlikely we lose this match.
He deserves blame for not subbing Fred but when you consider it all came from a poor touch Fred deserves a large share of the blame too.
Ole set us up well and from the 20min mark until their second goal we controlled the game and were dominating them in the second. Ole did his job, Martial didn't.
Why did we completely lose our shape after that? Yes we should have scored. Should the manager just get a pat on the back and an early shower around the 65th minute because we should have scored. This is the Manchester United and the Champions League.
If you leave a player on a yellow on the pitch, and you know that player is going to keep going to ground and throwing himself into tackles, then you can't complain if he ends up going, regardless of whether the referee made a good call or not.
Parking the Fred point ( I agree he should have been taken off) I don't know what other subs he would be expected to make. We actually created very good chances against PSG and didn't look like a side needing to make a change, outside of protecting a second yellow card of course.
We still need a draw to progress, you talk like we are out. I’m angry at the loss as well but it helps to look at the game as a whole and perhaps his reasoning for keeping Fred on.
No I just understand the functions of a manager in professional football. Do join me. Who's job is it to make sure the side maintains its shape, stays focused and disciplined to navigate the inevitable ups and downs in this sort of fixture?
I've never stated that they don't?Talking of universes, which one are you from? You think other managers don’t take risks?
But a risk equals either success or failure - today ended in failure, and I for the life of me can't understand how it's surprising to you among others that criticism comes pouring in on Ole since the risk he took... failed... miserably?
Is taking as risk as a manager of a football club such a courageous act that they should be either applauded or left alone, when it fails?
And I know we should've been up before the red card. That's down to the players, true. But Ole's lack of action re. Fred made it certain, that we weren't gonna make it 2-2 because of the red card. That to me is not good enough form our manager.
Why was a useless Martial and an injured Rashford both left on the pitch for 75 minutes?
I agree about the threads. I think people can have different opinions but some of us believe calling for the sacking of the manager after every game is plain stupid.
Yes he should have taken Fred off but I do understand why he kept him on. Fred as a professional player should know not to do stupid things. It wasn't even a tackle that he got his first yellow. He was lucky not to be sent off.
Seems like a lot of people forget we were losing 2-1 before Fred was sent off, the red card only ruined our chances for an equalizer so to speak. I also hear daylight robbery, theft and being all over them... which is funny since they hit the bar and DDG had a huge save at 1-1. PSG, naive as always, left lots of room for us to look decent before remembering they didn’t have to win this game. Then their vastly superior forwards won them the game in the end, not rocket science, certainly not undeserved either. It could have been 0-2 and a red card for us after 30 mins, yet people only focus on Martial’s big screw-up.
I seriously can't get I've thin not subbing Fred.
Football may be a hard game and being a manager is full of difficult decisions.
But that wasn't one of them. He managed to make a very simple decision wrong. That is what is so annoying about it.
If he wants to manage the club and succeed he can't be that naïve.
Football may be a hard game and being a manager is full of difficult decisions.
But that wasn't one of them. He managed to make a very simple decision wrong. That is what is so annoying about it.
If he wants to manage the club and succeed he can't be that naïve.
I know we missed chances, but PSG had some excellent chances as well that they didn't take. This game falls on the manager. He should have subbed not only Fred, but also Martial who had a stinker.
I don’t think you do mate, your bias of wanting the manager sacked is just showing.
Thought we played well. Game could have gone either way.
No excuse for leaving Fred on for second half. Was a ticking time bomb with the likes of Neymar falling over at the slightest contact. Fred was unlucky that it was a good challenge for the second yellow but he probably should’ve been booked for a previous one which the ref gave the other way.
Another example of Ole’s lack of experience or poor judgment.
Another example of Ole’s lack of experience or poor judgment.
The commentator on my stream claimed that it was the first semi-risky challenge Fred did in the second half. What if Ole told Fred to not go to the ground and he still did it? Should a manager not be allowed to trust his best CM?
I'm 100% sure that Fergie, Klopp, Pep and Mourinho on numerous occasions have left booked players on for the second half. There's always a risk. Sometimes it's worth it. Seeing as we dominated their midfield it was the right call. It's unlucky that the ref was incompetent.
I would've brought on Van de Beek and Greenwood for Fred and Martial, both for obvious reasons. I don't think I'm the only one who would've liked to see those changes. We have a talented squad. He just needs to use it especially when one is on a walking tightrope.
His is just tactically not good enough. How often this happens? Wrong lineups, wrong formations, wrong subs, late subs...he is just not good enough.
Lets put it like this. Imagine having Ighalo (that solid Ighalo from last season). Scores a goal then and there, makes a assist. You like him, you think he is doing good but you know that he is not someone who can win you stuff.
Why we lost 3 semis last year? Because in big games manager must do his job perfectly. Or at least doesn't make wrong decisions. Ole is not that level.
Lets put it like this. Imagine having Ighalo (that solid Ighalo from last season). Scores a goal then and there, makes a assist. You like him, you think he is doing good but you know that he is not someone who can win you stuff.
Why we lost 3 semis last year? Because in big games manager must do his job perfectly. Or at least doesn't make wrong decisions. Ole is not that level.
And another fecking thing, he had 5 substitutes available to him - and he did nothing until we conceded again.
Rashford was clearly injured, Fred was a walking red card, Martial was shot of confidence & Bruno was invisible - and he did feck all to change tactics.
Rashford was clearly injured, Fred was a walking red card, Martial was shot of confidence & Bruno was invisible - and he did feck all to change tactics.
He picked the wrong midfield today that couldn't retain the ball or pass forward.
He then stuck with the same two players despite watching the game for 70mins when they were both playing poorly and looked likely to get atleast one of the mids sent off.
Lunacy to not take Fred off at half time never mind 60 mins.
He then stuck with the same two players despite watching the game for 70mins when they were both playing poorly and looked likely to get atleast one of the mids sent off.
Lunacy to not take Fred off at half time never mind 60 mins.
Disagree. PSG were playing some great stuff in the first 15 minutes. Previous United sides would have dug in and hoped for the odd chance on the counter. We didnt do that tonight. We took the game to them and were pretty dominant. The players will take something from that. Im taking something from that
I'm no longer talking about keeping Fred on. He lingered far too long but that was less egregious than allowing everything to fall into chaos around the hour mark because we missed some chances. This is basic stuff as far as management and leadership goes. Were we not watching during the Sir Alex years?
He’s not a DM though is he and he doesn’t have Fred’s engine to get around the pitch.
In a nutshell this is why invariably Fred plays with McTominay, we don’t have any top DM’s.
Bruno was actually awful. VDB Could have come . The whole game changed when Tuchel changed the formation to 352. He did nothing to counter it (agree things changed immediately after the goal though)
There was no need to go for that killer goal. Keep trying and if we dont get it, we will try next week. Now the head to head advantage is in favor of PSG and a win is not good enough to win the group.
I agree he's been poor this season, and those misses weren't good, but his performance tonight (outside of the misses) was good, imo. On the whole, it isn't enough, no, but I thought his general play and defensive work tonight deserved some praise. Unfortunately, his poor finishing overshadows that.
Probably because they were still creating multiple chances against a top side for one. Better players than Martial have missed chances before, it happens. Again it's easy to complain in hindsight after we were so wasteful.
You could have brought those players on and it make no difference to our chance creation though. I don't think we looked like we were struggling for control of the game nor chance creation and outside of Rashford I don't think anyone was looking injured or fatigued.
You don't make changes for kicks, they tend to be tactical or forced. The only tactical move I can inherently blame Ole on was not taking Fred off. Aside from that I liked our balance and the performance up to the goal/red card disaster minute.
You're wrong
I thought they would've taken something from the Sevilla game but here we are staring down the barrel. I hope you're right and I wish I could share your optimism, perhaps I just need to cool off.
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