Which is more important: a top striker or a top right-winger?

[Sea-Cow]

Copy and paste from my comment in the Transfer Forum --

I go back and forth on our most pressing need, but with an old half-fit Cavani we look totally different with a competent center forward who can lead the line and actually make the opposition CBs sweat.

My current hierarchy of needs, subject to change after WestHam tomorrow:
1) A center forward, straight up number 9. Someone who can win headers, who can hold the ball up and bring others into play, who can get on the end of crosses in the box. I have no idea who to suggest. I would have gone with Raul Jiminez if he was a few years younger. Maybe use Harry Kane or Lewa as the template.
2) CDM - we need a Roy Keane / Viera clone. There a number of these available, I'm sure....
3) A winger who can play on the right or the left, but preferably the right. Someone with pace and work rate and good decision making, who can beat his man one v one and create havoc on a low block team parking the bus.
4) CB - an athletic specimen that can win sprints and win headers consistently in a crowded box. We need a Vidic clone.

 

[Raveneye]

It's worth remembering here that, if having a striker who can present an aerial threat is a priority, Erling Haaland doesn't actually provide that. If the issue is getting an out and out striker who can score goals consistently, then Haaland is the man.

How quickly Diallo and Pellistri are able to adapt to Premier League football will help inform the need for Jason Sancho. Likewise, how quickly Mason Greenwood develops into a super striker will inform the need for Haaland.

What seems for sure to me is that United could use a CDM most of all. Tuanzebe and Mengi both have potential to form a top partnership with Maguire in defense over time, but there is no prospect of anyone from the academy replacing Matic. For those games where opponents sit back and let Manchester United have the ball, having a reliable progressive passing rock at the back will allow Bruno and DVB to concentrate on what they do best. Fred is great in defensive games where his energizer bunny antics harry the opponent, but he is too lacking in positioning, stature and first touch to be ideal when fighting say, Wolves. Matic is great when on, but is just incressingly old and slow. Mctominay looks like a great squad player, but is never going to be a singular defensive rock due to a lack of technical ability , poor positioning and needing time on the ball to pass progressively.

Since Haaland isn't available at his release clause price till 2 summers from now, I'd be happy with Sancho and a great CDM this coming summer, then Haaland next summer. Assuming we can attract all 3.

 

[croadyman]

Haha come again? Is that because they apparently, none of us actually know the discussions that happened, weren't willing to pay north of 100 million for a young lad who could have very easily been the next Kagawa or Mkhitaryan.

I will give you that Sancho has really struggled this season but just want the board to back him with a CB & CDM

 

[United58]

Are either of Diallo or Pellestri right wingers by preference?

 

[Raveneye]

Are either of Diallo or Pellestri right wingers by preference?

That's where they prefer to play, yes. I've heard some talk that Pellistri might eventually go central, but Diallo sticks out like a sore thumb at Atalanta bprecisely because he is an immensely talented winger in a side that doesn't use wingers.

 

[MattyLT]

Right winger all day long, even before Cavani signed on. If United had a proper right winger, then Mason Greenwood could've been utilised more often as a striker from moment he broke into the team. I also think a lot of the "patterns of play" and "breaking down low blocks" - issues stem from the fact that United only have 2/3rds of an attacking creative line; the middle and the left. I would go so far as to say I reserve judgement on Ole's ability to coach attacking patterns in games where United dominate possession until that gaping hole in the squad is fixed. Wouldn't surprise me at all if things looked completely different then, keeping in mind that there are small margins at the top of the game.

Fixing the right wing would fix a lot of other "problems" as well:

- Mata could be utilised strictly as a number 10 backup (where he can still do a job), which would save him from a lot of grief from the supporters.

- AWB could have some of his attacking responsibilities taken of his shoulders, and we could all just enjoy his defensive capabilities. The guy in front of him could pretty much have free reign to cause havoc, seeing as AWB can shut down everything on his own. But then you need a right winger who can actually dribble past a man or two.

- Daniel James could get some peace and quiet to just develop as a footballer, get a few minutes at the end of games, and not have all this negativity around him because he's expected to make an impact.

- The manager wouldn't have to tinker as much to try and get something happening down the right side of the pitch. Easier to settle a first-eleven.

 

[UmbroDays]

Winger. I think it’s clear with heat maps our left side is our most used side and the opps can just overload that side, which in turn forces us to the right where we are lacking.

I think we have 3 good strikers at anytime. I’d rather see better link up play from our midfield.

 

[hungrywing]

It's probably good to keep in mind that, despite the question posed here being not only very relevant but prominently fecking highlighted due to the Glazer/Woodpulp dumbassery that makes it so; in no fewer than 100 out of 100 situations were this question to be asked in any other scenario, the answer would be 'top striker' every single time.

That being said: for us, probably both equally.

(Also, that being said, I'm pretty* sure Diallo is going to be a revelation)

*60% sure

 

[UmbroDays]

Right winger all day long, even before Cavani signed on. If United had a proper right winger, then Mason Greenwood could've been utilised more often as a striker from moment he broke into the team. I also think a lot of the "patterns of play" and "breaking down low blocks" - issues stem from the fact that United only have 2/3rds of an attacking creative line; the middle and the left. I would go so far as to say I reserve judgement on Ole's ability to coach attacking patterns in games where United dominate possession until that gaping hole in the squad is fixed. Wouldn't surprise me at all if things looked completely different then, keeping in mind that there are small margins at the top of the game.

Fixing the right wing would fix a lot of other "problems" as well:

- Mata could be utilised strictly as a number 10 backup (where he can still do a job), which would save him from a lot of grief from the supporters.

- AWB could have some of his attacking responsibilities taken of his shoulders, and we could all just enjoy his defensive capabilities. The guy in front of him could pretty much have free reign to cause havoc, seeing as AWB can shut down everything on his own. But then you need a right winger who can actually dribble past a man or two.

- Daniel James could get some peace and quiet to just develop as a footballer, get a few minutes at the end of games, and not have all this negativity around him because he's expected to make an impact.

- The manager wouldn't have to tinker as much to try and get something happening down the right side of the pitch. Easier to settle a first-eleven.

This is a really good post. I agree on everything especially AWB.

Teams thst have good wingers rarely have to concentrate on their wing back being the attacking force. I think we wouldalmost be completely locked down on the right side of the winger also tracked back.

 

[Red00012]

Goals win games and we are currently crap at taking our chances

 

[jem]

Before the season, I would have said a winger, but seeing Cavani do what great strikers do has really changed my mind on that. If only we could get the 26-year-old version of Cavani.

 

[thegregster]

The last two games have shown was a bit of quality on the right wing could do for us.

Against Southampton Bruno first goal came for a Cavani assist from the right and yesterday Bruno set up Pogba from the RW position.

 

[davidmichael]

We offer literally nothing from the right hand side because Rashford is a left sided attacker, Mata a central player, Greenwood a centre forward and AWB offensively impotent whilst we have Martial, Cavani, Greenwood and a couple of great youth players coming through that are strikers.

Having someone who’s exclusively a right sided attacker will add so much to our team and they’d also be safe in the knowledge that we just so happen to have arguably the best right back from a defensive standpoint in the league in AWB, just say for arguments sake we had Sancho he could do his thing up top whilst AWB can just concentrate on his biggest strengths which is pure defending.

Fernandes having options either side of him as well as the striker ahead of him could well mean us blowing teams away but currently he’s limited to everything coming from the left or if possible through the middle.

We’re literally a top class right sided attacker, a pure defensive midfielder and a quality centre back with pace away from being a quality team in my opinion. I’d love to see Tuanzebe kick on to be that centre back as he definitely has the potential and if he does then Sancho and a quality pure defensive midfielder is all that’s needed.

 

[Raveneye]

It's worth remembering that AWB is actually decent in the final third. He has delivered quality balls from there and is a threat. He's also athletic enough to get there and back to his own third at a reasonable pace. He's just absolutely crap at build up play. A proper right winger would take those responsibilities off him, but that doesn't mean all AWB will do is sit back. He'll still be able to just sprint into the final third at the right time to make himself a passing option and make space for said right winger.

 

[Yorke to Cole]

Wan Bissaka would also be able to learn from and interchange with the rIght sided winger. It would be beneficial in creating another dimension to our attack as we would be able to stretch teams. With Fernandes in the middle, he would be able to to pick a range of different attacking sides, which would make us difficult to defend against.

 

[Eyepopper]

Diallo or Pellestri are being majorly over played as signings. They're youth team signings name checked to make it look like we have some sort of plan. Hopefully they come good but neither are going to have an immediate impact.

As for what we need, we're playing Mata, and to a lesser extent Greenwood out of position on our right as first choice, we're so horribly missing a real player from the right.

 

[marktan]

Diallo or Pellestri are being majorly over played as signings. They're youth team signings name checked to make it look like we have some sort of plan. Hopefully they come good but neither are going to have an immediate impact.

As for what we need, we're playing Mata, and to a lesser extent Greenwood out of position on our right as first choice, we're so horribly missing a real player from the right.

Exactly this. Instead of buying yet another striker, I don't know why don't we play some of our actual strikers in Martial and Greenwood up top instead of shunting them out wide and instead buy an actual right winger. It's not that hard. Even someone of a lower level like Bowen would suffice at this point just to have someone who could offer a bit of width and quality for once from the right.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Right winger but has to be someone who can replicate was Rashford does on the left

 

[Eli Zee]

We’re literally a top class right sided attacker, a pure defensive midfielder and a quality centre back with pace away from being a quality team in my opinion. I’d love to see Tuanzebe kick on to be that centre back as he definitely has the potential and if he does then Sancho and a quality pure defensive midfielder is all that’s needed.

I'd say we're just a quality RW away from being a quality team. Getting a great CDM and CB along with a RW should make us challenge for league and CL titles. We really are a better team than people give us credit for on this site

 

[Gazza]

If Greenwood is going to be up front one day then I’d get Sancho and let the three of them with Rashford develop and hopefully help us win the league in 2-3 years. If we don’t see Greenwood as our leading man long term, then should we go for Haaland and hope Greenwood develops into a top level RW?

 

[AneRu]

We have Cavani, Martial and Greenwood for the striker position. I think Cavani is good enough if managed well as in getting one game once every week then use Martial/Greenwood for the midweek ones. That's a rotation that could work for us for the next one and half seasons.

In those eighteen months a lot of questions would be answered about Greenwood in particular and that discovery should inform our decision regarding signing a first team striker. I don't believe Martial's current form is indicative of his quality but it does show that he cant be relied upon as a starter.

As for Right Winger I would like for the management to use the second half of the season to assess Diallo's readiness to contribute. We have Mata, who like Cavani, is good for certain games and we could alternate the two for a while too.

My real worry is the softness of our central defensive axis. We shouldn't have to play two DMs so I think the priority should be signing two defensive minded players to complement Maguire - a faster, stronger CB and a DM who is better than Fred/McT on the ball but quicker across the ground and more durable than Matic.

Our DM and one paced CBs appear to be more urgent to me but if funds are permitting then we should do both -CB, DM and RW. However its something I expected us to do last summer and we didnt even touch 1/3 of those requirements.

 

[RkkMan]

Diallo or Pellestri are being majorly over played as signings. They're youth team signings name checked to make it look like we have some sort of plan. Hopefully they come good but neither are going to have an immediate impact.

As for what we need, we're playing Mata, and to a lesser extent Greenwood out of position on our right as first choice, we're so horribly missing a real player from the right.

I`ll agree Pellistri to some extent is a youth team signing(though by the looks of it he`s settling quickly and will be in the first team come the new year) but Diallo cost 37m in total factoring in the bonuses and he already has a goal to his name and is making appearances at the very highest level in the Serie A and the Champions League already that`s not a youth team signing in any way whatsoever he`ll be in the first team quicker than Pellistri who`s joined a completely new continent with a completely different culture and zero minutes of European football. Whether he hits the ground running quickly remains to be seen but you`re having a laugh if you think he`s coming to be dumped into the U23s

 

[AneRu]

I`ll agree Pellistri to some extent is a youth team signing(though by the looks of it he`s settling quickly and will be in the first team come the new year) but Diallo cost 37m in total factoring in the bonuses and he already has a goal to his name and is making appearances at the very highest level in the Serie A and the Champions League already that`s not a youth team signing in any way whatsoever he`ll be in the first team quicker than Pellistri who`s joined a completely new continent with a completely different culture and zero minutes of European football. Whether he hits the ground running quickly remains to be seen but you`re having a laugh if you think he`s coming to be dumped into the U23s

You are right, Diallo and Pellistri were our RW signings - the Sancho alternatives. Given how the Glazers and Woodward think that's the RW sorted for the next five to ten years. We paid a first team level fee for Diallo, he is going straight into the first team the minute he arrives in Manchester or Ole will have to continue with his current options.

 

[Strelok]

You are right, Diallo and Pellistri were our RW signings - the Sancho alternatives. Given how the Glazers and Woodward think that's the RW sorted for the next five to ten years. We paid a first team level fee for Diallo, he is going straight into the first team the minute he arrives in Manchester or Ole will have to continue with his current options.

No I don't think we'll pay first team level fee for Diallo. We'll sign him for £37m if he can get a work permit, but only £19m up front. Only £4m more than James.

 

[AneRu]

No I don't think we'll pay first team level fee for Diallo. We'll sign him for £37m if he can get a work permit, but only £19m up front. Only £4m more than James.

If he cant get a work permit then deal is off, no? £20m is a lot of money for a youth signing, I think big things are expected from him. Not as a starter initially but he will be in and around the first team because the Glazers arent wired that way - spend £20m for a youth team player in the COVID era!

Even Dan James who cost us £15m doesn't play for the reserves. Diallo is a punt we have taken in the hope that in a couple of years he'd be as good as Sancho.

 

[Strelok]

If he cant get a work permit then deal is off, no? £20m is a lot of money for a youth signing, I think big things are expected from him. Not as a starter initially but he will be in and around the first team because the Glazers arent wired that way - spend £20m for a youth team player in the COVID era!

Even Dan James who cost us £15m doesn't play for the reserves. Diallo is a punt we have taken in the hope that in a couple of years he'd be as good as Sancho.

Ah I see what you mean now. Yeah he'll get into the first team squad but not a starter.

But that means we still lack a RW starter I think? Even if we sign Diallo.

P/s: I heard due to Brexit there's some complications in getting his work permit. And if no work permit then the deal is off I think. I don't think we'd fancy the idea of paying £19m and his salary without him playing for us.

 

[AneRu]

Ah I see what you mean now. Yeah he'll get into the first team squad but not a starter.

But that means we still lack a RW starter I think? Even if we sign Diallo.

P/s: I heard due to Brexit there's some complications in getting his work permit. And if no work permit then the deal is off I think. I don't think we'd fancy the idea of paying £19m and his salary without him playing for us.

I thought the new rules made it easier because he easily makes the minimum 15 points needed to get a permit.

Whilst we wont have a fixed starter we will still have Mata, a veteran; Greenwood, the great academy hope and hopefully another prodigy in Diallo. That should be enough to push through the next 18 months imo. We already score and create enough goals as it is, imo it's the other end of the pitch that is more urgent - a DM for midfield balance and a faster CB to help defend counters because our one paced central defense is a cause for concern.

 

[Strelok]

I thought the new rules made it easier because he easily makes the minimum 15 points needed to get a permit.

Whilst we wont have a fixed starter we will still have Mata, a veteran; Greenwood, the great academy hope and hopefully another prodigy in Diallo. That should be enough to push through the next 18 months imo. We already score and create enough goals as it is, imo it's the other end of the pitch that is more urgent - a DM for midfield balance and a faster CB to help defend counters because our one paced central defense is a cause for concern.

Greenwood is not a RW, he's a young #9 playing there. Mata, well is Mata. Yeah he's 32 yo and will be 34 yo in 18 months so of course he is a 'veteran'.

We score and create enough recently because we have Bruno. When he's marked out, has an average game, need a rest or worse, injured we'll be the United in the first half last match.

Relying too much on one player is never a good thing. We really need to balance our attack and have more source for goals and assists than just Bruno.

 

[MetoTTT]

I don't say we shouldn't update on CF and RW and I'm happy with Martial, Dan James, Mata but I think the real problem is we don't create enough chances on a regular basis. Just bring players wouldn't solve these problems by magic imo.

 

[londonredmaniac]

A top striker, RW, CM and CB

 

[RkkMan]

Greenwood is not a RW, he's a young #9 playing there. Mata, well is Mata. Yeah he's 32 yo and will be 34 yo in 18 months so of course he is a 'veteran'.

We score and create enough recently because we have Bruno. When he's marked out, has an average game, need a rest or worse, injured we'll be the United in the first half last match.

Relying too much on one player is never a good thing. We really need to balance our attack and have more source for goals and assists than just Bruno.

Truth of the matter is we won`t get a CB, RW and DM in one window. Its simply too for us especially in a market that is still recovering from COVID which is why we`ve brought in Pellistri and Diallo to sort out the RW position so at best it`ll be a summer of a CB and DM both in the 40-50m bracket(and part of the spending will be financed from selling Pogba). Sancho at 80-100m or any other RW in that price range is never happening and any other RW a tier below in terms of quality comes with question marks hence why we`ve gone for the "next big things"

 

[Strelok]

Truth of the matter is we won`t get a CB, RW and DM in one window. Its simply too for us especially in a market that is still recovering from COVID which is why we`ve brought in Pellistri and Diallo to sort out the RW position so at best it`ll be a summer of a CB and DM both in the 40-50m bracket(and part of the spending will be financed from selling Pogba). Sancho at 80-100m or any other RW in that price range is never happening and any other RW a tier below in terms of quality comes with question marks hence why we`ve gone for the "next big things"

Imo we don't always need to pay 80-100m for a RW. Look at Bayern, last year they loan Perisic. This year Costa.

I don't ask for a big signing this Jan. A decent RW who could dribble, cross and shoot would be more than enough. I'd love to loan Perisic for example for 6 months than hoping a 18 yo who hardly ever play any top flight football to become our starting RW.

 

[AneRu]

Greenwood is not a RW, he's a young #9 playing there. Mata, well is Mata. Yeah he's 32 yo and will be 34 yo in 18 months so of course he is a 'veteran'.

We score and create enough recently because we have Bruno. When he's marked out, has an average game, need a rest or worse, injured we'll be the United in the first half last match.

Relying too much on one player is never a good thing. We really need to balance our attack and have more source for goals and assists than just Bruno.

I am looking at the available resources or the resources likely to be made available by the Glazers in this market which would be nothing more than £50m before sales. I think we will sell Pogba for £50m and then have £100m to spend.

The question then becomes which area of the pitch needs that investment more and where should you look to make do with the available resources? I think a talented and physically dominant CB and a defensively capable playmaking DM should be prioritized before a RW.

Why? Because in Mata, Greenwood, James and hopefully Diallo you have players that can collectively fill up the role even if they are not ideal but playing them in rotation does less damage than continuing with McTominay, Fred and Matic in the DM role or having the vulnerability against pace that a Lindelof - Maguire CB partnership gives us.

 

[Strelok]

I am looking at the available resources or the resources likely to be made available by the Glazers in this market which would be nothing more than £50m before sales. I think we will sell Pogba for £50m and then have £100m to spend.

The question then becomes which area of the pitch needs that investment more and where should you look to make do with the available resources? I think a talented and physically dominant CB and a defensively capable playmaking DM should be prioritized before a RW.

Why? Because in Mata, Greenwood, James and hopefully Diallo you have players that can collectively fill up the role even if they are not ideal but playing them in rotation does less damage than continuing with McTominay, Fred and Matic in the DM role or having the vulnerability against pace that a Lindelof - Maguire CB partnership gives us.

Well if you think Mata, James or Greenwood are currently filling the RW position, which is not their natural position, let alone quality wise than Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, McT doing in their natural position then I'm simply speechless.

I would love for a good DM to replace the Fred McT. But a CB? No it's not what we need the most now. We have CB and no RW. It's as simple as that.

Look at our heatmap every matches and you'd see what's missing I think.

Anyway, imo we should agree to disagree. I start to feel our discussion would go nowhere.

 

[AneRu]

Well if you think Mata, James or Greenwood are currently filling the RW position, which is not their natural position, let alone quality wise than Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, McT doing in their natural position then I'm simply speechless.

I would love for a good DM to replace the Fred McT. But a CB? No it's not what we need the most now. We have CB and no RW. It's as simple as that.

Look at our heatmap every matches and you'd see what's missing I think.

Anyway, imo we should agree to disagree. I start to feel our discussion would go nowhere.

I have seen the heat maps and the graphs regarding our chance creation from the central, right and left sides. The right side has been pathetic since 2014 but I think the strength that Bruno, Rashford and Cavani or an in form Martial provides us from the centre and the left side makes this a moot point for the time being.

If it was up to I'd sooner have a DM and a CB upgrade than I'd have a RW because when you are solid in those areas you don't need to score three to win games everytime. I don't think creativity is the one thing that you can watch United and point out that they are lacking, defensive solidity however...

Suppose we have £100m in the summer, I'd spend it on the defense (CB and DM) and look to go big for the RW or attack in the summer of 2022.

 

[RkkMan]

Imo we don't always need to pay 80-100m for a RW. Look at Bayern, last year they loan Perisic. This year Costa.

I don't ask for a big signing this Jan. A decent RW who could dribble, cross and shoot would be more than enough. I'd love to loan Perisic for example for 6 months than hoping a 18 yo who hardly ever play any top flight football to become our starting RW.

Perisic is a LW and for a club that is known for giving youth players chances isn`t it counter productive to sign a then 32yr old winger(who`s actually a LW and you`re complaining that we use Greenwood out of position even though he scored 17goals from the RW) to take up the minutes of two promising RWs that will be ready to play in the first team come January? It completely goes against our philosophy and a waste of money(look at Bale at Spurs on 300k a week playing a bench role which Lucas Moura was already doing) I mean Jadon Sancho who people here clamor for had zero minutes of top flight football at City and instantly showed his potential at BVB when he was given the chance. If you`re good enough you`re old enough and shoring up our defence with a CB and CDM will improve our chances of having a cohesive attack without needing to sign another attacker

 

[AneRu]

Perisic is a LW and for a club that is known for giving youth players chances isn`t it counter productive to sign a then 32yr old winger(who`s actually a LW and you`re complaining that we use Greenwood out of position even though he scored 17goals from the RW) to take up the minutes of two promising RWs that will be ready to play in the first team come January? It completely goes against our philosophy and a waste of money(look at Bale at Spurs on 300k a week playing a bench role which Lucas Moura was already doing I mean Jadon Sancho who people here clamor for had zero minutes of top flight football at City and instantly showed his potential at BVB when he was given the chance. If you`re good enough you`re old enough and shoring up our defence with a CB and CDM will improve our chances of having a cohesive attack without needing to sign another attacker

This and as you said Greenwood has had success on the right before and he just had a difficult summer. He was good enough to help us to third last season and we also have the vastly experienced Mata to come in and do his bit in certain games.

Compare and contrast that with our DM options and one paced defense. I think the smart money is on signing a DM and CB to stabilize the team then go all out for Sancho or another attacker in 2022 if Greenwood and Diallo both fail.

 

[Alan Partridge]

Definitely a striker for me. Striker is a very specialized position. And I think we’ve seen that you can’t just throw any attacker in that position and expect returns.

We need someone with a bit of predatory instinct. It’s getting really frustrating watching the likes of Martial never quite being where he needs to be.

 

[RkkMan]

This and as you said Greenwood has had success on the right before and he just had a difficult summer. He was good enough to help us to third last season and we also have the vastly experienced Mata to come in and do his bit in certain games.

Compare and contrast that with our DM options and one paced defense. I think the smart money is on signing a DM and CB to stabilize the team then go all out for Sancho or another attacker in 2022 if Greenwood and Diallo both fail.

Don`t forget Pellistri and Diallo as well. The former is starting to settle well into England and likely to start featuring in cup games from January while latter is more talented than people think, out of all the young upcoming players we`ve scouted(U20 to U18 range) he had the highest ratings amongst everyone from our scouting department we wouldn`t have paid over the odds if it wasnt the case. We have options on the RW they aren`t as established as the Sanchos of this world yet but there`s potential and at least one of them is likely to give us a permanent solution from within.
On the other hand we constantly have to play 2 DMs because none of our options there are solid anchors on their own or possess the quality to be anchors while our CB partnership albeit solid lacks pace and quality to enable us to play a high line. I genuinely believe the right players in those positions will propel us to another level ala 17/18 Liverpool

 

[Stacks]

CF and its no even close. People too obsessed with the Fergie get it out wide and cross it in etc.