Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[90 + 5min]

Bringing in another manager doesn't mean that things are automatically going to be rosy. It just means that things aren't currently working out with the current manager, so a different route or way of doing things needs to be explored.

The timing of when a change comes in is crucial. Things are quite tight in the league at the moment, so a new manager coming in right now could really tip things in our favour. The easiest thing for everyone would be for the team to start performing on a consistent basis, with the players enjoying the football, the results coming in, and with Ole making good calls with lineups, tactics, changes and man-management. If all of those things are good, then nobody needs to get replaced. But, I do feel that something has to change, so whether Ole really takes it up a notch and tries something different with the way he does things, or the way he motivates players, or something, one of those things has to be altered. The league position shows that we're not very far away, but the performances (imo) have been very inconsistent.

That is beacuse people expect things that, for me, is not easy to achive. Not as fast as they want. That is why I've said bilion times, give manager time. As long as we see us taking step forward, give manager time. Now, everyone can have different opinion what step forward are. I base my opinion on fact. Have we closed down distance btween us and last year top team? Right now yes. So, we should wait until summer to evaluate again.

Performences are inconsistent. You are right. But as you see, league is pretty thight. Solskjaer needs to work on it. And work on starting games without letting goals in.

Changing manager now, can go either way. But to think we are winning league by just changing manager is wrong.

 

[el3mel]

Ole did better in selling than buying players. It's pretty fair to say he got rid of many useless players we wanted out for ages, and those remaining aren't playing anymore even in cup games like Lingard.

His purchases though the only one who has been an undoubted success is Bruno. The rest all have questions over their head.

But I'll say he overall did a decent job with the squad and made it look better on paper. He's just for me not good enough to take the step forward. That's as far as he can take us.

 

[90 + 5min]

I remember when Watford did the first of their sackings last season. I was told on here it was showing us how we should be run and the 'ambition' they had. I argued it would have very little effect...

I was wrong actually, it got worse.

Well, Watford was something else. How many sackings did they do?

 

[Superunknown]

That is beacuse people expect things that, for me, is not easy to achive. Not as fast as they want. That is why I've said bilion times, give manager time. As long as we see us taking step forward, give manager time. Now, everyone can have different opinion what step forward are. I base my opinion on fact. Have we closed down distance btween us and last year top team? Right now yes. So, we should wait until summer to evaluate again.

Performences are inconsistent. You are right. But as you see, league is pretty thight. Solskjaer needs to work on it. And work on starting games without letting goals in.

Changing manager now, can go either way. But to think we are winning league by just changing manager is wrong.

There has to come a point though where the higher-ups decide to move him on if things are not working out. If we do inevitably make a change, then it's better to do it at a point in time where it can be effective and we could still be in with a shout of achieving something. Imagine if we did move him on, but we were already 15 or 20 points off the top. In that case, I'd question the timing on that, since the writing has been on the wall for a while.

I guess my point is that there needs to be some sort of suitable timeframe for making this change. If performances were to continue to be lacklustre for, say, another 5 league games, I think that would be fair enough for many fans to say that it's time to move on. If they're not in the "out" camp already.

 

[Bobcat]

I have no idea why are you bringing up Bruno. No one said anything about him.

Maguire might be the best CB at the club but that just shows how clueless we are or how poor we have been. The same stats is probably achievable with Smalling and Young as well. These stats count for nothing if it doesn't get us points on board. This 130m shipped 2 school boy mistake goals last Wednesday dumping out of CL.

Don't even get me started on AWBs ability on ball.

Well, thats kinda my point. Not suggesting that Maguire is Vidic Mk II or that AWB is the new Evra, but my point was
1. The players Ole have brought in have improved the squad, decent signings albeit expensive
2. They preformed better last year than their teammates, so maybe the squad is not that good

Smalling had been at the club for 10(?) years and had not managed to establish himself as a first choice CB under 5 different managers. Hes not the worst CB in the world, but he was not exactly highly rated around here. I am one of those who thinks Young got way to much shit from the fans, but hes ancient. No chance he could have kept up

 

[90 + 5min]

There has to come a point though where the higher-ups decide to move him on if things are not working out. If we do inevitably make a change, then it's better to do it at a point in time where it can be effective and we could still be in with a shout of achieving something. Imagine if we did move him on, but we were already 15 or 20 points off the top. In that case, I'd question the timing on that, since the writing has been on the wall for a while.

I guess my point is that there needs to be some sort of suitable timeframe for making this change. If performances were to continue to be lacklustre for, say, another 5 league games, I think that would be fair enough for many fans to say that it's time to move on. If they're not in the "out" camp already.

That is right. There is red line for everything. I don't think we are there. But sure, if things go downhill I wouldn't be a stranger for change. There are lot of ifs. What is important is that club have a vision and plan for every situation. I understand what you mean by changing at a certain point and respect that.

 

[hobbers]

Don't you get bored typing this kind of stuff? Its been said and countered a million times.

Nope. Not that I've seen.

You can't counter the fact that at least a part of the reason Ole was hired in the first place, and part of the reason he will keep his job for however long he does, is because it makes it easier for the Glazers to put a gloss on falling standards and mediocrity. It's a glaringly obvious sleight of hand to hoodwink the fanbase.

People who wants Solskjaer sacked have clearly seen that just by sacking Solskjaer we will win league and cups where our next manager will win every game.

Why are you bashing such a stupid strawman drum over and over?

 

[Mainoldo]

Well Arteta is getting sacked now. Poch could probably do with him in his coaching staff. Clearly that’s his level for now. Shame Ole doesn’t know his level.

 

[Garethw]

Guess the draw doesn't look that bad now, does it?

No it looks worse. City were there for the taking. Cowardly, negative tactics cost us three points yesterday.

 

[Wumminator]

No it looks worse. City were there for the taking. Cowardly, negative tactics cost us three points yesterday.

Where are City going to finish? Roughly?

 

[dove]

Is there better managers then Solskjaer? Yes.
Is it a guraantee for that manager to be better than Solskjaer? No.

So as long as we are taking steps forward we should stand by our team.

I just hope that people here can celebrate winning league soon.

And what steps forward do we take exactly? Out of CL group and we are on track of 68 points in the league which is basically the same as last season. Most of the games we are trash and rely on penalties/individual brilliance. We are not taking any steps forward anywhere, that's the biggest issue.

 

[Rossa]

No it looks worse. City were there for the taking. Cowardly, negative tactics cost us three points yesterday.

I’ve never before seen Pep go so defensive. They left little space to attack into with two defensive midfielders to mark Bruno. Both managers tactically cancelled each other out.

 

[90 + 5min]

And what steps forward do we take exactly? Out of CL group and we are on track of 68 points in the league which is basically the same as last season. Most of the games we are trash and rely on penalties/individual brilliance. We are not taking any steps forward anywhere, that's the biggest issue.

We are taking steps forward. One or two setbacks doesn’t mean you are crap. We are out of CL, last year we were not even in CL. In Premier League we are 5 p behind leaders with one game in hand. We were not even close last year.
You can talk about penalties and individual brilliance. Same can be said to many top teams in world and managers. You don’t need to go further then to look at Liverpool today.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Arteta’s been in charge of Arsenal for 2 weeks and already we can see his style of play coming through. But Ole needs 5 windows just to achieve the same thing ?

This aged well...

 

[Bilbo]

Nope. Not that I've seen.

You can't counter the fact that at least a part of the reason Ole was hired in the first place, and part of the reason he will keep his job for however long he does, is because it makes it easier for the Glazers to put a gloss on falling standards and mediocrity. It's a glaringly obvious sleight of hand to hoodwink the fanbase.

What it is is simply a faction of our fanbase (ie you) trying to understand why not everybody feels the same way as they do. You’ve reached a point of no return on this. Ole = not good enough, and thats that.

What you can't figure out is why anyone would still want him here, so you end up settling for conclusions that sound logical to you but are actually quite insulting to others. Your stance is based on reasoning and knowledge of the game, whereas others are blinded by nostalgia and romanticism. The fact that some people think we're actually getting better is too much to take in.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

What it is is simply a faction of our fanbase (ie you) trying to understand why not everybody feels the same way as they do. You’ve reached a point of no return on this. Ole = not good enough, and thats that.

What you can't figure out is why anyone would still want him here, so you end up settling for conclusions that sound logical to you but are actually quite insulting to others. Your stance is based on reasoning and knowledge of the game, whereas others are blinded by nostalgia and romanticism. The fact that some people think we're actually getting better is too much to take in.

It might be the other way around, ie you are the faction.

 

[mancave bear]

Then you have missed those posts about how league is sh*t and we are only a class manager (like Poch) from winning it.

Poch - class manager? Why did he not manage to beat us?
He have never won anithing, as a player or as a manager.
Spurs doing much better now, without him.

 

[pocco]

For some reason I was sure it was you, hence my surprise of you backing Ole in a much worse condition than Jose's second season. Sorry for the confusion.

I thought the same. Had a quick scan through some of his threads and found a comment of his regarding Jose replacing LVG...

Hilariously that was one of the worst days I can remember

He had a seriously hate for Jose and he made many predictions about us being optimistic again if we sacked him, blah blah blah. Basically everything that he's now standing up against vs Ole. If my memory serves me right he also started a few threads making predictions about things we'd do, games we'd win under Ole that completely backfires.

He's the type of poster that is over committed to Ole being a success to ever want him to leave.

Like the rest of the Ole In lot, he'll be hoping we spunk another few hundred mill and give him the best team in the league, possibly the world right now, and they drag him to a trophy.

 

[lysglimt]

After 11 games he’s on 20 points.

In Mourinho’s disaster season we had 20 points after 11 games, and we were through in CL.

This is what 310 million buys you, progress innit.

Following on from a Mourinho meltdown is a dream ticket for a United manager, half our fans seem to think Ole took over a side that was battling relegation.

You forgot to mention that in the next 6 games with Mourinho - we took 6 points after being ridiculed by both City and Liverpool.

 

[Bilbo]

It might be the other way around, ie you are the faction.

It absolutely goes both ways, but i think you tend to see far more of the 'deluded', 'blinded by X or Y' type of comments aimed towards people backing Ole than vice versa.

Most sensible people I talk to have sympathy for those who want him out. They don't necessarily agree, but you can't totally dismiss that point of view because Ole hasn't won anything yet. Thats fine by me.

Posters that use those phrases above aren't giving the same consideration. They don't write 'well I disagree with you but I understand that there are some metrics out there that point to progress'. Its black and white with them. Support Ole = trying to be a top red, blinded by nostalgia, hoodwinked by Glazer propaganda etc etc. What a giant pile of crap. Anyone would think we were in Arsenals position the way that some people behave on here.

 

[lysglimt]

Had 20 points after 11 games with Moyes in charge as well. We’re still pretty much same team we’ve always been post SAF.

And Moyes wasnt fired for picking up 20 points from 11 matches. He was fired from first picking up 2 points from the next 4 - and then picking up 23 points from the last 15 matches he was in charge

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Most fans want to keep him because they are happy being a 4-6th yo-yo club going in circles.

We’ll win nothing under Ole. We could win the title this season if we sacked him. Won’t happen though. We’ll stick with him & finish between 3rd/6th, win no silverware & fans will be calling it a great season.

What has happened to my once great club?

 

[RedSky]

It might be the other way around, ie you are the faction.

It shouldn't be this bullshit faction shite. It's just an extension of the Jose toxic culture that poisoned this forum. Fact is that we're an effective team in the league and have been for almost 12 months. Our performances might be incredibly inconsistent over 90minutes and we still make dumb individual errors but we have had consistent results.

We are also the beneficiaries of a league that has struggled to adjust well to covid and that has helped us reduce the gap to Liverpool and City. Either way, Ole has done well to maintain our form through what has been a very challenging year. We still have a lot of work to do and when Covid does eventually ease up we need to ensure we follow City and Liverpools obvious rise in form. But as of right now, we're doing well and the rebuild is continuing, it's upto the board to continue the upward trend to continue refreshing the team come January.

I'm pretty sure the majority on this forum would have jumped at the chance at being 5 points away from top with a game in hand after 11 games. I'm finding this season fascinating from a football fans point of view, granted the level of football has been shocking at times, but from a competition perspective it's great.

 

[Wumminator]

I thought the same. Had a quick scan through some of his threads and found a comment of his regarding Jose replacing LVG...



He had a seriously hate for Jose and he made many predictions about us being optimistic again if we sacked him, blah blah blah. Basically everything that he's now standing up against vs Ole. If my memory serves me right he also started a few threads making predictions about things we'd do, games we'd win under Ole that completely backfires.

He's the type of poster that is over committed to Ole being a success to ever want him to leave.

Like the rest of the Ole In lot, he'll be hoping we spunk another few hundred mill and give him the best team in the league, possibly the world right now, and they drag him to a trophy.

Well, that one post sure shows how I didn’t give Jose a chance. Of all the posts I’ve ever made, I’m sure embarrassed about that one.

 

[Backrow Singer]

I really don’t like the constant, cringeworthy “I told you so” that seems to surround the club at the minute. If we lose a game, I keep reading comments regarding how wrong people are to support Solskjær, criticising people who feel like he deserves more time. But then in the same way, some of our wins are massively over exaggerated by people as well. When we win a game I read comments about how wrong people were to ever doubt him or how every win is a sign of some form of huge progress.

The constant smugness that I hear surrounding every result is quite difficult at times. He’s either a great, wonderful manager or he needs sacking and it changes a couple of times a week.

I just think there’s a balance to be had and there’s a long, long way to go yet this year. On paper, we’ve got some nice fixtures coming up and we should be picking up some points over Christmas. Beating Sheffield United/Leeds/Wolves/Villa won’t make Ole the best manager in the world just as losing against Leipzig and drawing against City doesn’t make him the worst. We’ve got some tough games to come in the second half of the season at some difficult grounds and at the end of the season we’ll be in a position to reflect.

 

[rotherham_red]

I really don’t like the constant, cringeworthy “I told you so” that seems to surround the club at the minute. If we lose a game, I keep reading comments regarding how wrong people are to support Solskjær, criticising people who feel like he deserves more time. But then in the same way, some of our wins are massively over exaggerated by people as well. When we win a game I read comments about how wrong people were to ever doubt him or how every win is a sign of some form of huge progress.

The constant smugness that I hear surrounding every result is quite difficult at times. He’s either a great, wonderful manager or he needs sacking and it changes a couple of times a week.

I just think there’s a balance to be had and there’s a long, long way to go yet this year. On paper, we’ve got some nice fixtures coming up and we should be picking up some points over Christmas. Beating Sheffield United/Leeds/Wolves/Villa won’t make Ole the best manager in the world just as losing against Leipzig and drawing against City doesn’t make him the worst. We’ve got some tough games to come in the second half of the season at some difficult grounds and at the end of the season we’ll be in a position to reflect.

Agree with this.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well, that one post sure shows how I didn’t give Jose a chance. Of all the posts I’ve ever made, I’m sure embarrassed about that one.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/to-the-posters-saying-mourinho-is-done.422840/page-9#post-19962524

Sorry Twigs, but this does not make for a good read.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Like the rest of the Ole In lot, he'll be hoping we spunk another few hundred mill and give him the best team in the league, possibly the world right now, and they drag him to a trophy.

... wait.

Wouldn’t you want us to spunk another few hundred mill, build the best team in the world, and win a trophy?

If that’s our plan, I’m all aboard.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It absolutely goes both ways, but i think you tend to see far more of the 'deluded', 'blinded by X or Y' type of comments aimed towards people backing Ole than vice versa.

Most sensible people I talk to have sympathy for those who want him out. They don't necessarily agree, but you can't totally dismiss that point of view because Ole hasn't won anything yet. Thats fine by me.

Posters that use those phrases above aren't giving the same consideration. They don't write 'well I disagree with you but I understand that there are some metrics out there that point to progress'. Its black and white with them. Support Ole = trying to be a top red, blinded by nostalgia, hoodwinked by Glazer propaganda etc etc. What a giant pile of crap. Anyone would think we were in Arsenals position the way that some people behave on here.

Oh I dont know, posters that want Ole to go are branded plastic fans glory hunters, spoilt, dont deserve to be a United fan, should go and support some other club etc. It goes both ways.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

I'm at the point where I would take Roy Keane as manager right now till the end of the season. It's one of the situations where it could be an utterly disastrous decision, or inspired, but it would certainly liven things up

 

[Amir]

... wait.

Wouldn’t you want us to spunk another few hundred mill, build the best team in the world, and win a trophy?

If that’s our plan, I’m all aboard.

It would be nice. And it also isn't likely to happen. There are clubs around with more money - or ones who are clever and do really well with less money - so we'll too have to be a little smarter.

 

[reelworld]

He was in the CL. He qualified for it. He then played against half of last year’s semi finalists.

Is your argument this year to be clear:

A) he should go for it more against Man City and attack them.
B) he should have qualified from his CL group?

I'm not sure this is wumming or not, but let's give this a go.

A. Absolutely. Not at first, but after the first half it's pretty clear that City just couldn't bother to attack and their defence is suspect, then United should gave it a go. The only reason they managed to pressure us in the second half was when Pep realize that Ole also didn't bother to attack, so he took initiative

B. Absolutely.
The worst result was not losing to Leipzig and Paris. The worst was losing to the worst team in the group. Istanbul only have 3 points. They got it in their win against us. It seems to me Ole doesn't know when to be conservative and when can he be more adventurous. Second half against City was an opportunity to do the latter.

And you could argue that the second half against Paris is the reason to the first.

Ole only took the brakes when he absolutely have to, and I don't think that would win him anything

 

[pocco]

... wait.

Wouldn’t you want us to spunk another few hundred mill, build the best team in the world, and win a trophy?

If that’s our plan, I’m all aboard.

I'm sure you are.

Unfortunately we won't do that. It'll be an endless list of excuses, more players required, more players signed for big money that don't make sense in relation to his tactics. But you will keep hope that things will fall into place just one time, such as they did for Rafael Benitez, and he'll win a big trophy that you can hang your hat on. Given what we've spent to date and the type of money we apparently still need to spend, I'd say it's not good enough.

Ultimately a mediocre manager is just that and will run out if time eventually, as did Benitez.

 

[DRJosh]

I'm at the point where I would take Roy Keane as manager right now till the end of the season. It's one of the situations where it could be an utterly disastrous decision, or inspired, but it would certainly liven things up

In many ways, we hired Ole on the same premise - "to liven things up". Cue the 'new manager bounce' and then the decline starts. I think there needs to be a proper succession plan (wishful thinking I know) for next season and Ole can continue until that plan is finalised. A plan that should have happened several seasons ago before Moyes.

 

[pocco]

I'm at the point where I would take Roy Keane as manager right now till the end of the season. It's one of the situations where it could be an utterly disastrous decision, or inspired, but it would certainly liven things up

Basically the Ole appointment.

It has proven to be a bit of all of them things. But his time here should simply have been as a caretaker that was in to calm the waters and give us time to plan. He was never qualified for the job and if we'd have stuck to our first decent plan about undertaking a thorough recruitment process till the end of the season, he wouldn't have got the job in the end after the results post PSG.

 

[OleBoiii]

Damn, even when we're not playing this thread grows by almost 10 pages a day!

Ole living rent free in some posters' heads.

 

[hobbers]

What it is is simply a faction of our fanbase (ie you) trying to understand why not everybody feels the same way as they do. You’ve reached a point of no return on this. Ole = not good enough, and thats that.

What you can't figure out is why anyone would still want him here, so you end up settling for conclusions that sound logical to you but are actually quite insulting to others. Your stance is based on reasoning and knowledge of the game, whereas others are blinded by nostalgia and romanticism. The fact that some people think we're actually getting better is too much to take in.

The point has nothing to do with why fans are split on wanting him to stay or not. I understand perfectly well all the various reasons people might want him to stay, and the reasons others want him to leave, and I don't particularly care how those reasons break down. Christ we still had a sizeable portion of the fanbase behind Moyes, even after his final game in charge, banging on about "but Fergie said we had to stand by our new manager", "United are never going to be a sacking club" etc etc.

I'm just telling the simple truth that the Glazers want to reduce expectations and ease the measures of success, and Ole being manager helps them do that. It is one of the reasons he is in this job.

Although you are right about me not understanding the people who think we've made clear progress this season. That can only be delusion. How can we possibly be making clear progress when the formation, system and team selections, which were fairly set in stone for the post-lockdown period last season, have become wildly unpredictable, changing not only every game but even every half? And that is but one reason among many.

 

[PoTMS]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/to-the-posters-saying-mourinho-is-done.422840/page-9#post-19962524

Sorry Twigs, but this does not make for a good read.

I'm sorry but
A) our defence is shit - last season we had the best defence in the league.

B) it's the players not the manager - well we've spent 150 million plus (by far the most in the league) and got a superstar on a free and we don't look any better. That kind of spending HAS to bring an improvement.

Well would you look at that? I wonder who that reminds me of.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Is there better managers then Solskjaer? Yes.
Is it a guraantee for that manager to be better than Solskjaer? No.

So as long as we are taking steps forward we should stand by our team.

I just hope that people here can celebrate winning league soon.

Agree.
Agree.

We are taking steps forwards with Ole?
If you're talking about last season then sure, that's acceptable.

Is it still steps forwards now?
Looks more like we're playing around alternately moving up 1 step and down another 1 step, stuck within 3 steps.
Never progress anymore and so far never stoop down much.

Ole is a safe choice, a safety blanket no doubt.
Is that enough? We've seen from other top clubs content fully satisfied at remaining at eg. top 4, then over time they gradually fall and fall down.

Accepting more and more low standards just like the manager?
He literally enjoy and accept the recent Derby draw game for feck sake.

I do get the fear of changing manager may make it worse. It could also be the opposite - more successes. Nothing is a guarantee as you know. If we plan properly, then we don't need to fear in making good calculated changes. Alas, ours are not really reliable. One thing for sure, making changes is the common step to try and be better. If the new change is bad, then simply make another changes. Simple concept. Plenty of other top clubs that run well i.e. have good plannings constantly change managers and get both successes and failures along. Every club goes through this anyway - up and down. The best clubs dare to adapt and make good calculated risks. Ours unfortunately don't and looking likely to remain with the incompetency at the tops. The least they can do is try new coaches no?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Agree.
Agree.

We are taking steps forwards with Ole?
If you're talking about last season then sure, that's acceptable.

Is it still steps forwards now?
Looks more like we're playing around alternately moving up 1 step and down another 1 step, stuck within 3 steps.
Never progress anymore and so far never stoop down much.

Ole is a safe choice, a safety blanket no doubt.
Is that enough? We've seen from other top clubs content fully satisfied at remaining at eg. top 4, then over time they gradually fall and fall down.

Accepting more and more low standards just like the manager?
He literally enjoy and accept the recent Derby draw game for feck sake.

I do get the fear of changing manager may make it worse. It could also be the opposite - more successes. Nothing is a guarantee as you know. If we plan properly, then we don't need to fear in making good calculated changes. Alas, ours are not really reliable. One thing for sure, making changes is the common step to try and be better. If the new change is bad, then simply make another changes. Simple concept. Plenty of other top clubs that run well i.e. have good plannings constantly change managers and get both successes and failures along. Every club goes through this anyway - up and down. The best clubs dare to adapt and make good calculated risks. Ours unfortunately don't and looking likely to remain with the incompetency at the tops. The least they can do is try new coaches no?

You really don’t know what’s happening by end of the season to even consider this season as not step forward. We are still on title race and could move to 4th place with 2 points from the top if we win the catch up game. It’s only fair to call it not stepping forward after we know it is not by end of the season, this is why it’s only fair to assess the manager by end of the season unless if it’s clear we are not moving step forward like Arteta now or the time when Mourinho was sacked. Getting new manager at our current situation isn’t going to help, new manager will need time to get to know the players and adapt the system to the team.