Rival managers complaining about our penalties

[RobinLFC]

See, when you use wording like that you are implying that English football is institutionally corrupt and biased towards United.

And quite a few of your own fans were implying that the FA is corrupt and biased against United for giving them City three years in a row in the Carabao Cup. Both of those claims are probably far from the truth.

This is just some kind of weird freakish streak that happens once every so often, and you don't necessarily need to go look for explanations for it. It really sucks when you see that United have won a game with yet another penalty, but all we (Liverpool) should do is just focus on our own games and try to win our own games again. I'm sure Klopp wouldn't even have mentioned this stuff if we had gotten 9/9 from WBA, Newcastle and Soton. Him even bringing it up after a game of our own is just silly imo. Win your own fecking games and we'd be 7 points clear now with no immediate need to worry about Utd getting penalties.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So do we but they're also always very conveniently ignored on here.

Everyone thought that "VAR would straighten things out" and our luck would go away after that. Then it became clear that we actually benefited from VAR (not as much as Utd by the way) and it became LiVARpool. It'll always be something, if you're not on top then you're looking for excuses why your rivals are: it's something Utd fans used to mock Liverpool fans and other fans with and now this forum has become infected with loads of people doing exactly the same. "Easy schedule, unreal injury luck, opposition GK howlers", the list goes on and on.

Just as your fans are doing then?

Look, all fans are biased to varying degrees and their views often reflect that. Whether you're at the top or not, fans don't like giving their rivals credit for actually being good and it's human nature to prefer to believe it's luck etc However, our fans, especially here, definitely don't seem as mental in the conspiracy theory nonsense as Livepool fans and Rawk. Of course it doesn't help that your manager himself is a bit of nutter peddling this rubbish and ours isn't.

 

[bondsname]

Imagine Howard Webb being a ref with VAR at his disposal, oh my the amount of penalties we'd gotten

 

[Dumbstar]

You're conveniently just quickly mentioning the fact that Pogba was struck with a flying elbow nowhere near the ball and didn't get anything for it. If there was a pro-United conspiracy among the referees, surely the VAR would've taken the three minute break while Pogba was bleeding to actually instruct the referee that he should give a penalty, no? After all, it is possible to get more than one penalty in a game, which you should know since you got three in the same game against us once.

I see the confusion. I don't think there is any pro-Utd conspiracy per se. There is a similar pro-Leicester conspiracy too if that's the case, I have just seen how many penalties they are awarded.

Managers are asking why is such shit refereeing only favouring one (or in this case 2 but Utd are a far bigger target) team? It just so happens Utd are the benefactors and way out in front.

From StatsBunker in the past two seasons so far Liverpool have had 10 PL penalties despite blowing goal differences to pieces in both seasons, in other words occupying opposition penalty areas. Utd have 20 despite not occupying the penalty area as much. Leicester with 17 penalties occupying the area even less so.

 

[pass.pass.pass]

I will not be surprised if a clear penalty is now not given to United away at Burnley or Liverpool.

Ole might need to say something against this growing cabal. You know Fergie would have turned the whole thing upside down; he would have even had a word with the referee before the game at Anfield.

Managers and fans (including opposition fans on this forum) are doing their best to form a narrative. It has to be countered. Seasons are defined by moments in games.

 

[Mb194dc]

Not really surprising when you look at the stats. OGS has managed 115 games by the look of it and had 42! penalties in that time.

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Any statisticians on the Caf with access to the numbers who can tell us how far our of the normal range Utd are for penalties awarded in the last 2 seasons?

 

[cyberman]

I will not be surprised if a clear penalty is now not given to United away at Burnley or Liverpool.

Ole might need to say something against this growing cabal. You know Fergie would have turned the whole thing upside down; he would have even had a word with the referee before the game at Anfield.

Managers and fans (including opposition fans on this forum) are doing their best to form a narrative. It has to be countered. Seasons are defined by moments in games.

Its not even that hard to work out. Shock, horror we get pens when we have the best no 10 in world football slipping in passes for our foreards to run onto.
If Klopp didnt have Henderson passing to "holy shit, do i have to shoot?" Ferminho", maybe they get more.

 

[RobinLFC]

Just as your fans are doing then?

Look, all fans are biased to varying degrees and their views often reflect that. Whether you're at the top or not, fans don't like giving their rivals credit for actually being good and it's human nature to prefer to believe it's luck etc However, our fans, especially here, definitely don't seem as mental in the conspiracy theory nonsense as Livepool fans and Rawk. Of course it doesn't help that your manager himself is a bit of nutter peddling this rubbish and ours isn't.

I don't read RAWK but to suggest a whole fanbase is less involved in conspiracy theories than another one is equally foolish imo - every football club has its nutters and given how global both Utd and Liverpool are, I don't think we can suggest one is crazier than the other based on some RAWK posters.

And regarding the manager stuff, I'd rather have a manager who actually wins us stuff and says some daft shit after the games that we don't win, than one with a nice guy image who doesn't win us anything.

 

[MadDogg]

The last two seasons Liverpool and City scored a combined 371 goals, United scored 131. City and Liverpool combined got 27 penalties and united got 26 in those years. I don't really don't think United earned the same amount of penalties as City and Liverpool these last to seasons, it just dosent make sense to suggest it, but I don't think United bribed anyone either. I think United players were looking for penalties because the attack was so damn terrible, not earning penalties because it the attack was good like some suggest. I think that when a team is winning and playing well they are not looking for penalties, the last time Bayern led the Bundesliga in penalties was in 11-12, the last time they didn't win it.

You know, there is another reason that could explain us scoring less goals in total but getting more penalties. If our attackers tend to pass up decent opportunities to score and try to dribble past another defender or two to turn it into a great opportunity, that would have the exact same result. We've all seen how often Martial and Rashford tend to overplay and try to create the perfect goal, it's something that has had plenty of complaints about in the past.

 

[cyberman]

Not really surprising when you look at the stats. OGS has managed 115 games by the look of it and had 42! penalties in that time.

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Any statisticians on the Caf with access to the numbers who can tell us how far our of the normal range Utd are for penalties awarded in the last 2 seasons?

Go through the pens and tell us how many you think arent pens. There will be plenty of videos out there instead of this overview nonsense.
Theres a reason you wont.

 

[SirAnderson]

I see the confusion. I don't think there is any pro-Utd conspiracy per se. There is a similar pro-Leicester conspiracy too if that's the case, I have just seen how many penalties they are awarded.

Managers are asking why is such shit refereeing only favouring one (or in this case 2 but Utd are a far bigger target) team? It just so happens Utd are the benefactors and way out in front.

From StatsBunker in the past two seasons so far Liverpool have had 10 PL penalties despite blowing goal differences to pieces in both seasons, in other words occupying opposition penalty areas. Utd have 20 despite not occupying the penalty area as much. Leicester with 17 penalties occupying the area even less so.

Just might have something to do with the 1000 crosses you put in the box during a match. And your players getting a reputation of diving, and please don't say they don't, it's blatantly obvious for all to see.

There is no favouring when you are on 5 pens, and we are on 6?? If anything its Leicester being favored by hey ho, no word from it by Klopp, why is that? Because it has nothing to do with "unfairness" but simply trying to start an agenda against us leading up to the game. For that very reason, I desperately wish he gets his delusional wish come true when we play you guys and we get the most dubious penalty to win it. Till then, just beautiful to see.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

You can't infer anything from volume other than "this happened X amount of times" but sure. Whatever.

 

[Adisa]

Not really surprising when you look at the stats. OGS has managed 115 games by the look of it and had 42! penalties in that time.

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Any statisticians on the Caf with access to the numbers who can tell us how far our of the normal range Utd are for penalties awarded in the last 2 seasons?

Watch the pens and decide the number that are bad calls. Statistics is useless when judging stuff like this. Look at the hard evidence.

 

[Bilbo]

And quite a few of your own fans were implying that the FA is corrupt and biased against United for giving them City three years in a row in the Carabao Cup. Both of those claims are probably far from the truth.

This is just some kind of weird freakish streak that happens once every so often, and you don't necessarily need to go look for explanations for it. It really sucks when you see that United have won a game with yet another penalty, but all we (Liverpool) should do is just focus on our own games and try to win our own games again. I'm sure Klopp wouldn't even have mentioned this stuff if we had gotten 9/9 from WBA, Newcastle and Soton. Him even bringing it up after a game of our own is just silly imo. Win your own fecking games and we'd be 7 points clear now with no immediate need to worry about Utd getting penalties.

I think there would be justifiable claims to bring up our penalty count if a fair proportion of them were highly contentious, but that isn't the case. There will often be a small element of doubt with penalties but surely now with VAR on the scene these are no longer down to what the referee does or doesn't see in the heat of the moment. He can see if multiple times from more than one angle.

I get it all the time on my whatsapp groups. 'Don't worry you guys will get a penalty if you need one'. I always reply the same way - we'll stop getting penalties when our opponents stop fouling us in the penalty area.

 

[Mb194dc]

Go through the pens and tell us how many you think arent pens. There will be plenty of videos out there instead of this overview nonsense.
Theres a reason you wont.

I would be more interested in net penalties, e.g how many conceded and how many given as that could be interesting as well.

Then take the net penalty numbers and compare to data from other teams in the last 20 years and see how far out from the "normal" average Utd have been since OGS took charge.

Need proper stato with time on their hands to really see what is going on here.

 

[Tony247]

Started getting more penalties after Bruno's arrival. Team started playing much better in and around the box. United have arguably very pacy and dribbler forwards in Rashford and Martial. When they make more runs in the box obviously defenders will make more errors.

 

[RobinLFC]

Started getting more penalties after Bruno's arrival. Team started playing much better in and around the box. United have arguably very pacy and dribbler forwards in Rashford and Martial. When they make more runs in the box obviously defenders will make more errors.

Is that actually true? You led the league in penalties awarded in 18/19 which was before his arrival, and led the league last year as well in a season he played less than half of the games in.

 

[duffer]

I don't think any of your pens were not pens under the current rules.

*Puts on tin foil hat*
I do think we don't get as many pens as we should under the current rules.

 

[Adam-Utd]

with VAR I don't see how this is even a debate.

They've cancelled plenty of dubious penalties over the season for all teams.

Pretty much all the ones we've had are genuine and not soft at all.

 

[roonster09]

I would be more interested in net penalties, e.g 3how many conceded and how many given as that could be interesting as well.

Then take the net penalty numbers and compare to data from other teams in the last 20 years and see how far out from the "normal" average Utd have been since OGS took charge.

Need proper stato with time on their hands to really see what is going on here.

It's not interesting and makes 0 sense too. Attacking team gets more pens than they concede.

Also till last few years Liverpool got more penalties than ManUtd.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Thanks all for your replies, I'm not the one raising these concerns about penalties. If you check the OP it's actually managers raising this question. I'm an interested observer just as everyone else is, and all we can do is discuss what managers are doing on internet forum such as this one. Or biases dictate which way we fall on the topic.

Oh so you will post in here again but not to back up your ridiculous claim

 

[Lentwood]

Have we had a penalty this season that was widely considered by pundits to have been incorrectly awarded?

I can only remember Brighton, Villa and Leeds and it was roundly agreed that all three where penalties.

I do remember us losing a game against Crystal Palace because they where given a penalty that was absolutely farcical beyond all belief and left everybody (neutrals included) questioning the new handball laws

 

[Zlatan 7]

I didn't watch the first half, was there a headlock on Salah? I think there was as there is enough talk about it online. Mane got clipped by Peters as much as Pogba did against Villa. Utd had two genuine claims both against Pogba in the villa game - got one of them. Liverpool's? Both not even deemed worthy to look at for more than 1.5 seconds due to...hmm... not enough to overrule, etc, or some crap. Utd will nearly always, always get at least one pen decision in their favour, making it hard to overrule against them. Other teams done get that 'favour'.

I know this is Utd forum so the bias lies the other way. But that's my bias in asking for parity, no wum.

 

[Anustart89]

I see the confusion. I don't think there is any pro-Utd conspiracy per se. There is a similar pro-Leicester conspiracy too if that's the case, I have just seen how many penalties they are awarded.

Managers are asking why is such shit refereeing only favouring one (or in this case 2 but Utd are a far bigger target) team? It just so happens Utd are the benefactors and way out in front.

From StatsBunker in the past two seasons so far Liverpool have had 10 PL penalties despite blowing goal differences to pieces in both seasons, in other words occupying opposition penalty areas. Utd have 20 despite not occupying the penalty area as much. Leicester with 17 penalties occupying the area even less so.

You’re not really a ”benefactor” of good fortune or help from the referees if you’re awarded correctly given penalties, are you though? I mean it’s not United that forces the opposition to break the laws of the game inside the box with some kind of black magic. If Richard Keys wasn’t talking out of his arse saying that 20 out of 33 were wrong then he’d actually be making a point, but it’s really not the case that refs have given a disproportionate amount of wrong penalty calls, all favouring United. I’d say that five or so were 50/50 (and you, being a Liverpool supporter, would probably put ten in that category with the truth probably being in the middle), two or three plain wrong and the rest good calls.

But there’s been no media backlash over how Mings got away with his assault on Pogba. Nobody’s talking about protecting players. They’re all interested in saying we get favorable calls because in two weeks, when Liverpool play United, Klopp is hoping to have influenced the ref to wrongly judge situations involving us and to err on the side of not giving a foul. Just like Lampard did before we played them. And the problem is that it works. Klopp can go out there completely unopposed and deflect 2 points in three games onto us and it will affect the referee going into our game in two weeks.

 

[TheGame]

Its clearly a distraction tool from their own results and if mentioned enough times then officials may be pressured to ensure 50/50 incidents ago against us. Clearly those managers seem to be rattled by us.

 

[El Zoido]

with VAR I don't see how this is even a debate.

They've cancelled plenty of dubious penalties over the season for all teams.

Pretty much all the ones we've had are genuine and not soft at all.

Only two were questionable, Bruno vs Villa, and James earlier in the season (can’t remember who it was against). We’ve actually had fewer penalties than we should have had, I can recall more than two instances where our players were brought down in the box and nothing was given. Everyone is talking about the legitimate penalty we got against Villa, like it’s some kind of travesty. Yet I’ve not seen a single mention of the one we didn’t get in the first half when Mings assaulted Pogba and nothing was given. Even in this one game we were only awarded one penalty and should have had two. It’s a tiresome argument already, the footage is out there. Any rival fans that thing there’s some sort of bias, put your money where your mouth is and show us the footage. Otherwise you have zero argument.

 

[Idxomer]

Don't remember that one off the top of my head. Any clips? It may have been one of the others that probably should have been given but I don't want to go overboard claiming anything that isn't an absolutely 100% guaranteed penalty every day of the week (like the Fred incident was). If I start including incidents that are whatsoever debateable it starts sounding similar to the people who are complaining about things.

I remember it being stonewall. Cahill was all over Martial who tried his hardest then to stay on his feet, Cahill should've easily seen a red in the same game too.

 

[roonster09]

I didn't watch the first half, was there a headlock on Salah? I think there was as there is enough talk about it online. Mane got clipped by Peters as much as Pogba did against Villa. Utd had two genuine claims both against Pogba in the villa game - got one of them. Liverpool's? Both not even deemed worthy to look at for more than 1.5 seconds due to...hmm... not enough to overrule, etc, or some crap. Utd will nearly always, always get at least one pen decision in their favour, making it hard to overrule against them. Other teams done get that 'favour'.

I know this is Utd forum so the bias lies the other way. But that's my bias in asking for parity, no wum.

Just like reading Tomkins articles or his tweets

 

[RobinLFC]

with VAR I don't see how this is even a debate.

They've cancelled plenty of dubious penalties over the season for all teams.

Pretty much all the ones we've had are genuine and not soft at all.

I don't think that's what people are complaining about, I think it has more to do with the fact that Utd have had some penalty incidents looked at that other teams didn't. I can't speak for your penalty incidents as I've only seen the Villa one during this season, but I know for a fact that Liverpool have had some (offside, not necessarily penalty) decisions ruled against them, but when they could've been ruled in our favour, the checks were done in a matter of seconds or VAR didn't even look at it at all. It's that inconsistency which still bothers me a lot.

I'm not gonna complain about the penalties awarded in your favour - it's annoying for sure but VAR pretty much ensures that every one of them will be more or less justified. If we had won our last three games it wouldn't even have been brought up by Klopp. Do your own business instead of focusing on others is what I'd say.

It's not interesting and makes 0 sense too. Attacking team gets more pens than they concede.

Also till last few years Liverpool got more penalties than ManUtd.

Not really true though, you've been above or tied to us in penalties awarded since 17/18, that's three seasons in a row and counting. Before that it was Liverpool, Utd, Liverpool, Liverpool, Utd, Utd dating back until the 11/12 season. It's only your current streak which could be considered an anomaly, but those things simply happen from time to time and shouldn't mean that there's a conspiracy or that it's fixed at all of course. Utd 18/19 and 19/20 was the first time a team led the league in penalties awarded in consecutive years since Arsenal between 05-07.

 

[thegregster]

I didn't watch the first half, was there a headlock on Salah? I think there was as there is enough talk about it online. Mane got clipped by Peters as much as Pogba did against Villa. Utd had two genuine claims both against Pogba in the villa game - got one of them. Liverpool's? Both not even deemed worthy to look at for more than 1.5 seconds due to...hmm... not enough to overrule, etc, or some crap. Utd will nearly always, always get at least one pen decision in their favour, making it hard to overrule against them. Other teams done get that 'favour'.

I know this is Utd forum so the bias lies the other way. But that's my bias in asking for parity, no wum.

You got one big decision last night. The ref should have sent off Thiago Allen but he didnt.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I would be more interested in net penalties, e.g how many conceded and how many given as that could be interesting as well.

Then take the net penalty numbers and compare to data from other teams in the last 20 years and see how far out from the "normal" average Utd have been since OGS took charge.

Need proper stato with time on their hands to really see what is going on here.

stats before eyes, good one

 

[christinaa]

I see the confusion. I don't think there is any pro-Utd conspiracy per se. There is a similar pro-Leicester conspiracy too if that's the case, I have just seen how many penalties they are awarded.

Managers are asking why is such shit refereeing only favouring one (or in this case 2 but Utd are a far bigger target) team? It just so happens Utd are the benefactors and way out in front.

From StatsBunker in the past two seasons so far Liverpool have had 10 PL penalties despite blowing goal differences to pieces in both seasons, in other words occupying opposition penalty areas. Utd have 20 despite not occupying the penalty area as much. Leicester with 17 penalties occupying the area even less so.

My hearts bleeds for you and others supporting Liverpool!
Poor chaps.

This is all 'blah blah' from your end, preparing refs and var for the Burnley and Liverpool games that we have - refs will now think it over a million times before awarding ANY penalty to United.

 

[roonster09]

Not really true though, you've been above or tied to us in penalties awarded since 17/18, that's three seasons in a row and counting.

I meant total penalties since PL inception till 2017 or 2018.

 

[christinaa]

You got one big decision last night. The ref should have sent off Thiago Allen but he didnt.

Agree with this.
80 % of the Liverpool * kick the opposition from the word go and Thiago was guilty of 5 or 6 yellow card fouls.

 

[roonster09]

Not really true though, you've been above or tied to us in penalties awarded since 17/18, that's three seasons in a row and counting. Before that it was Liverpool, Utd, Liverpool, Liverpool, Utd, Utd dating back until the 11/12 season. It's only your current streak which could be considered an anomaly, but those things simply happen from time to time and shouldn't mean that there's a conspiracy or that it's fixed at all of course. Utd 18/19 and 19/20 was the first time a team led the league in penalties awarded in consecutive years since Arsenal between 05-07

Liverpool got 160 penalties in their favour, ManUtd for 153.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

The commentator last night should have said "so you think referees are making mistakes and deliberately favouring United?"

There's two reasons why Klopp doesn't mention Chelsea or Brighton or Leicester - he's not bothered about them as title contenders and he's trying to put a little pressure of the ref ahead of our impending game.

 

[Slevs]

They are rattled.
They're seeing consistency and are worried so they resort to trying to influence referees for our games so that we don't get 50/50s anymore.

 

[Anustart89]

I don't think that's what people are complaining about, I think it has more to do with the fact that Utd have had some penalty incidents looked at that other teams didn't. I can't speak for your penalty incidents as I've only seen the Villa one during this season, but I know for a fact that Liverpool have had some (offside, not necessarily penalty) decisions ruled against them, but when they could've been ruled in our favour, the checks were done in a matter of seconds or VAR didn't even look at it at all. It's that inconsistency which still bothers me a lot.

The inconsistency is very annoying and the fact that the call on the pitch matters so much is also annoying. They should just go with what the correct call would be regardless of what the ref gave on the pitch.

I mean, if Pogba hadn’t been given a pen against Villa I don’t think it’d have been overturned due to the clear and obvious clause. But in the same game, we have a player nowhere near the ball, flying in elbow first towards Pogba’s head, and the VAR doesn’t even bother to check it even if play is stopped for three minutes while the medical team attends to Pogba‘s bleeding face. If there was a willingness to favour United by referees then they had a perfectly good opportunity to give a clear penalty for an assault inside the box, yet they chose not to. Instead of talking about protecting players against assault, the entire discussion revolves around the amount of penalties United have received with no mention of the legitimacy of said penalties. It’s as if people are under the impression that there’s a finite amount of times teams can break the laws of the game against a certain team in a certain area of the pitch, yet United have passed that line and the referees just keep giving them penalties anyway.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Yes, we get a lot of pens, but technically the vast majority of them are legitimate pens. Maybe one this season was unjust? Well Lindelof’s against Palace was unjust so it’s evened out.

We have VAR now, which if anything has proven referees were actually very unfair to us regarding pens in the past. There was a period where we were getting multiple stone wall penalties not given per season. Referee bias for United? No chance. If anything it can be argued that VAR has taken the referee bias against United away.

 

[RobinLFC]

The inconsistency is very annoying and the fact that the call on the pitch matters so much is also annoying. They should just go with what the correct call would be regardless of what the ref gave on the pitch.

Tend to agree with this yeah, although in the NFL it's also the rule that the ruling on the field is upheld if there's not enough evidence to overturn. I think that's why I like the thought of it but maybe it's just not the right reasoning for football, dunno.

Liverpool got 160 penalties in their favour, ManUtd for 153.

Cheers. Maybe a bit weird considering you've been so dominant in the PL for so long and expected to be more in the opposition's box.