It is tiring pretending that there is not a right way to 'support' a club - there absolutely is

[U.N.C.L.E]

Before the internet you had toilet walls where folks could ”post” their opinions anonymously.

In 2021 I treat many online forums in the same way - I read posts and take them not that seriously and with often the same “aroma” in the air.

Support the club how you like, post whatever comment you like, but don’t cry foul when you get flamed for airing your opinions. It’s a 2-way street.

 

[Chipper]

How many more people need to say they’re not posting here because of how relentlessly negative others are before people start reflecting on their own actions?

It's not my job to attract members to Red Cafe. It's for Niall (I think that's who owns the site) to shape the direction of it if he wants to. People will then post or not post accordingly.

I don't actually think I'm one of the people you're necessarily talking about as I don't really post about United much but that's not for me or anyone but those who run the site to care about at all.

 

[Galactic]

Chill, man, It’s the age of the internet. People are more impatient. Accept it. You’ll feel better.

 

[Cheimoon]

You don’t wear half and half scarves. You don’t wear Fellaini hats in the stadium.

Been recruited to the thought police, have you? What harm has a half-and-half scarf ever done? How about a little less sanctimony and letting people enjoy their lives in their own way? It's just football, we're not talking QAnon supporters with the potential to damage society here.

I agree that the incessant negativity is annoying though. Not because I think everyone should be positive about their club (just as it's fine that you were negative about Mourinho), but because it's mostly just random ranting. If those negative opinions we're discussed in a more constructive manner, the forum would be a nicer place. (I'll exclude the matchday thread from that. It exists for the purpose of responding in the moment to what's happening, so that'll never get better for shit games.)

 

[Chipper]

Maybe I'm getting caught up on the details but I don't really see how internet forums enter the realm of football support at all.

You can support a club financially in many ways. Buying tickets, merchandise, pies, programmes, tv subscriptions etc. You can support the players vocally at the ground to inspire them.

What is typed on Red Cafe, good or bad? We're in the realms fandom rather than support on here as we're not helping United by being here.. Online behaviour can affect things if people were going on a player's Twitter or Instagram feeds and calling them a cnut directly, which has happened. While I wouldn't want to see someone being quite so brutal on here I don't see how it would matter in terms of actually affecting United.

Maybe you think this place is more imporatant than it is?

 

[The Firestarter]

Maybe I'm getting caught up on the details but I don't really see how internet forums enter the realm of football support at all.

You can support a club financially in many ways. Buying tickets, merchandise, pies, programmes, tv subscriptions etc. You can support the players vocally at the ground to inspire them.

What is typed on Red Cafe, good or bad? We're in the realms fandom rather than support on here as we're not helping United by being here.. Online behaviour can affect things if people were going on a player's Twitter or Instagram feeds and calling them a cnut directly, which has happened. While I wouldn't want to see someone being quite so brutal on here I don't see how it would matter in terms of actually affecting United.

Maybe you think this place is more imporatant than it is?

Apparently some posters think that the young players will read some dude's opinion on a forum and that may hurt their feelings.

 

[Deery]

It’s easy enough to support a club if you love it enough you just support it.

Can’t claim I’m the best supporter ever but I see a lot on here who genuinely have the same love that I do, much more than the negative people to be fair.

 

[motsjo]

Maybe I'm getting caught up on the details but I don't really see how internet forums enter the realm of football support at all.

You can support a club financially in many ways. Buying tickets, merchandise, pies, programmes, tv subscriptions etc. You can support the players vocally at the ground to inspire them.

What is typed on Red Cafe, good or bad? We're in the realms fandom rather than support on here as we're not helping United by being here.. Online behaviour can affect things if people were going on a player's Twitter or Instagram feeds and calling them a cnut directly, which has happened. While I wouldn't want to see someone being quite so brutal on here I don't see how it would matter in terms of actually affecting United.

Maybe you think this place is more imporatant than it is?

This is someone with an average of 4.18 posts per day in here for 12.5 years. I think it's pretty clear what kind of importance he puts on this forum. A lot of it is great entertainment though, so that's something at least.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Do you think you supported the club “the right way” when Mourinho was in charge?

Mourinho in charge - criticising is fine
Ole in charge - blind support is real support

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sounds more like a cult tbh. There’s nothing wrong with thinking there are issues at the club and with the squad.

If it were up to some here, this place would be no different from rawk with one massive circle jerk of one upmanship of who can be the bestest fan ever.

While of course the criticism goes overboard, and its the same for every big club, it's important to understand that Ed Woodward isn't Manchester United, Ole isn't Manchester United and *insert criticized player name* isn't Manchester United either.

 

[devilish]

That basically wraps it up nicely

 

[devilish]

If you don’t care for sentiment and only care about winning, then why support United at all?

So sentiment is more important to winning now? We really have become the new Liverpool

 

[Wumminator]

Chill, man, It’s the age of the internet. People are more impatient. Accept it. You’ll feel better.

Unfortunately, I care too much to just leave it. I want to help others understand.

 

[Wumminator]

The OP started a different thread with these words last August.

"So I’ve been in my job for a few years now and I’ve noticed that other people continually get promoted ahead of me."

By opening this thread and proclaiming with such certainty how a proper supporter should behave, they may have unwittingly identified one of the contributing factors behind their lack of career progression.

Dale Carnegie may be able to help.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

Imagine trawling back through my posts and the only one to use against me is

a) a blatant joke thread
And
b) one in which I explain why Manchester United fans are worried about Mourinho managing us.

 

[norm87cro]

While there is no denying that some players just don't cut it I mostly agree with the sentiment. During those 90 minutes I'm behind every player despite my own personal opinion about each one.

 

[L1nk]

I agree with a lot of what the OP post said, although some things to bug me, i agree that a lot of people can sometimes go overboard with criticism, but it’s not like alot of criticism hasn’t been without merit.

This whole “give local lads more leeway” thing is ridiculous, i think surely you mean give youth players more leeway, unless you mean give 28 year old Lingard more leeway than 28 year old Johnny Foreigner even if Lingard has been turning in worse performances? Just because he’s a local lad? Come on, every youth player should be given leeway everybody should agree with that, but there will always be people who have a go at them regardless, thats not unique to our club. The main issue with this is that over the years we’ve been absolutely spoiled by the likes of Giggs and the Class of 92 etc, the main issue being is that things like this rarely ever happen,we have to have the balance of playing youth players and giving them chances, whilst also toeing the line and recognising that they just aren’t good enough, unless your standards have slipped so far and all you care about is sentimentality, at which point we become Liverpool of old.

McTominay is a good squad player, but he is not anywhere near good enough to be a starter for the levels we aspire to get to, Jesse Lingard isnt even a good squad player in my eyes, and they should get the same treatment as anyone else of their level, regardless of ‘local lad’ status or not.

Its fantastic that we give local lads a chance, but you cannot persist when they clearly arent good enough, there’s no, ‘ah well we didnt win anything but at least we played youth players!’ competition. It just reeks of ‘Manchester United are superior because we play youth’ complex crap and if pointing this out apparently makes me less a fan or just me not supporting them the right way then so be it.

 

[Wumminator]

So sentiment is more important to winning now? We really have become the new Liverpool

I agree with a lot of what the OP post said, although some things to bug me, i agree that a lot of people can sometimes go overboard with criticism, but it’s not like alot of criticism hasn’t been without merit.

This whole “give local lads more leeway” thing is ridiculous, i think surely you mean give youth players more leeway, unless you mean give 28 year old Lingard more leeway than 28 year old Johnny Foreigner even if Lingard has been turning in worse performances? Just because he’s a local lad? Come on, every youth player should be given leeway everybody should agree with that, but there will always be people who have a go at them regardless, thats not unique to our club. The main issue with this is that over the years we’ve been absolutely spoiled by the likes of Giggs and the Class of 92 etc, the main issue being is that things like this rarely ever happen,we have to have the balance of playing youth players and giving them chances, whilst also toeing the line and recognising that they just aren’t good enough, unless your standards have slipped so far and all you care about is sentimentality, at which point we become Liverpool of old.

McTominay is a good squad player, but he is not anywhere near good enough to be a starter for the levels we aspire to get to, Jesse Lingard isnt even a good squad player in my eyes, and they should get the same treatment as anyone else of their level, regardless of ‘local lad’ status or not.

Its fantastic that we give local lads a chance, but you cannot persist when they clearly arent good enough, there’s no, ‘ah well we didnt win anything but at least we played youth players!’ competition. It just reeks of ‘Manchester United are superior because we play youth’ complex crap and if pointing this out apparently makes me less a fan or just me not supporting them the right way then so be it.

It is absolutely fine to think that Lingard shouldn’t start for this club; it’s not okay to act like he’s a horrible person or to insult him because you think he’s not good enough to start for the club.

 

[Spoony]

Fans are impatient, they've always been. Suppose United's success and then the relative lack of had made them even more reactionary. That said this place has been a rollacoaster for years. Fergie not winning the league 4 years on the trot and struggling to keep up with Mourinho's Chelsea caused this place to become a car crash of a forum. Fergie earned blind support though, Ole has to earn his. It's just the way it is. He's doing well to be fair.

 

[GazTheLegend]

It is absolutely fine to think that Lingard shouldn’t start for this club; it’s not okay to act like he’s a horrible person or to insult him because you think he’s not good enough to start for the club.

This is the crux of the issue and people are sidestepping that point and derailing / finding other straw man arguments because they -enjoy- writing abusive posts about players.

 

[devilish]

It is absolutely fine to think that Lingard shouldn’t start for this club; it’s not okay to act like he’s a horrible person or to insult him because you think he’s not good enough to start for the club.

I don't think he should be anywhere near at the club. The guy is stealing a living at United and had been doing so for quite some time. Are you fine with that? I assure you its nothing personal towards Lingard. I had colleagues whose been taking his private issues at work and expect everyone to carry their weight because of :sob story: and I pretty much said the same thing about them as well. They couldn't throw money and the problem to make it better like JLingz could do either.

So here's the thing. People work hard during the week and most are living miserably in jobs they don't like. They support United to be entertained. Most of these people spend good money for that so if United can't provide that then they have a right to be pissed off. It's one thing supporting a non league team. You pay what you get and you can't really expect them to play great either. However United take good money out of fans and pay some of the highest salaries in the football world. You do expect players to be good in football and have there mind focused on that.

 

[Wumminator]

This is the crux of the issue and people are sidestepping that point and derailing / finding other straw man arguments because they -enjoy- writing abusive posts about players.

Succinct and to the point.

 

[Wumminator]

I don't think he should be anywhere near at the club. The guy is stealing a living at United and had been doing so for quite some time. Are you fine with that?

Throughout my time here I’ve seen you insult players such as Park, Carrick, O’Shea etc with demeaning nicknames. That is my issue with you, you’re actively horrible and abusive about our own players.

 

[devilish]

This is the crux of the issue and people are sidestepping that point and derailing / finding other straw man arguments because they -enjoy- writing abusive posts about players.

Name me one top club whose fans would give such leeway to the likes of Jones and Lingard. Can you see them doing what they do at United in the Bernabeu? Of course not. Actually United's fans problem is that we're too accommodating. Which exactly why the likes of Jones and Lingard are still stealing a living here

 

[GazTheLegend]

Name me one top club whose fans would give such leeway to the likes of Jones and Lingard. Can you see them doing what they do at United in the Bernabeu? Of course not. Actually United's fans problem is that we're too accommodating. Which exactly why the likes of Jones and Lingard are still stealing a living here

Real Madrid fans booed Ronaldo because they're entitled, spoiled, and a bit pathetic. That's not the bar we hold ourselves to. Its not the fans being accommodating of Lingard and Jones - no fan wanted Jones to be given a 5 year contract, and most fans want Lingard gone, sure. But it's the abuse of players like Rashford and Maguire - actual great players who sometimes have a bad day at the office - that is more bothersome. Rashford destroyed PSG and Leipzig and still got dogs abuse a week later on this forum, so they're more the examples I am thinking of.

 

[devilish]

Throughout my time here I’ve seen you insult players such as Park, Carrick, O’Shea etc with demeaning nicknames. That is my issue with you, you’re actively horrible and abusive about our own players.

I liked Carrick and Park. OShit was never a United level player and I stick to that. I was called all sort of names as well, it didn't made me lose an hour worth of sleep. I believe players should do the same, after all, they are actually paid very well for what they do while we pay their salary.

Many top reds had left the forum the moment things started getting sour while I am still here. The same happened at supporters clubs as well. We 'moaners' and 'glory hunters' still support the club and show our passion to it while many of those who used to proclaim eternal love to it, no questions asked, had deleted any link with United because 'the club isn't what it used to be' and it 'became too toxic' which is funny considering that the only thing that changed was lack of trophies.

All I can say is that I spend weekends with a bad mood whenever United lose so I don't need someone with a stick up his arse to tell me how to support my club.

 

[devilish]

Real Madrid fans booed Ronaldo because they're entitled, spoiled, and a bit pathetic. That's not the bar we hold ourselves to. Its not the fans being accommodating of Lingard and Jones - no fan wanted Jones to be given a 5 year contract, and most fans want Lingard gone, sure. But it's the abuse of players like Rashford and Maguire - actual great players who sometimes have a bad day at the office - that is more bothersome. Rashford destroyed PSG and Leipzig and still got dogs abuse a week later on this forum, so they're more the examples I am thinking of.

I never said that we should be like RM however we take it to the other extreme. I mean Jones and Lingard are still at the club and there actually people in here who buy up to their sob story . They probably laugh at the top reds and how silly they are for doing that. One thing is for certain, these entitled and spoiled brats can drink to a pathetic record of 34 league titles and 13 CL while we're, well, you can really expect United to take leipzig's CL spot can we?

As said name me one top club who would accept the crap Jones had thrown to us for 10 long years. Would the likes of Real, Barcelona, Bayern or Juventus allow such daylight robbery to happen without the fans not even bother to boo the players? But hey at least we've got the high moral ground.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It is absolutely fine to think that Lingard shouldn’t start for this club; it’s not okay to act like he’s a horrible person or to insult him because you think he’s not good enough to start for the club.

That's an internet thing, not a Manchester United fan thing.

 

[Wumminator]

Name me one top club whose fans would give such leeway to the likes of Jones and Lingard. Can you see them doing what they do at United in the Bernabeu? Of course not. Actually United's fans problem is that we're too accommodating. Which exactly why the likes of Jones and Lingard are still stealing a living here

What on Earth has that got to do with what I posted.

For years you've called stalwarts of the club names like 'OShit', 'Carsick' and other suchlike insults.

You once asked for the Best statue to be taken down as he is a 'drunkard'.

The only good thing about getting Giggs will be that if he also fails then the old guys will probably leave with him. It would be about time too. Considering SAF's and Charlton's age we will pretty soon start delivering adult nappies in the board room.

This is the kind of shit I am talking about. Stop changing the subject.

 

[NoneBmStore]

To be honest, I think the post SAF era has messed with our heads on a permanent basis. A big if, but if we win the league, nothing is going to change in here. There’ll still be the daily “Maguire is as overrated as his forehead is big, I hate him”, “OGS couldn’t even download music illegally, I also hate him” etc threads. It’s gotten quite toxic. If a player has a bad stretch of games we’re so incredibly quick as dismissing him as the worst thing since buttering your bread before Nutella.
All our players during the Ferguson era would have up and down periods, but we had so much quality that there was always a moment of brilliance to be found somewhere in the squad to decide a game. I feel like that’s where we are heading now. We just need to be patient. Eventually we’ll get the correct composition of our squad and the team will get 5% better, enough to put us back at the top permanently.

 

[devilish]

What on Earth has that got to do with what I posted.

For years you've called stalwarts of the club names like 'OShit', 'Carsick' and other suchlike insults.

You once asked for the Best statue to be taken down as he is a 'drunkard'.



This is the kind of shit I am talking about. Stop changing the subject.

Carstick isn't mine. OShit, Mcfail and Barbietov are. I don't recall the George Best thing. It would be strange considering that I risked my job for an autograph of his.

I never liked shit players or players who didn't carried their weight. Period. I think that United's biggest problem is that we're too nice which means that people like Lingard take us for a massive ride. Ironically its what attracts me to United as well. We've got the nicest fans and players which kind of piss me off when I see dead weight abusing it.

Anyway we're both supporting the same club despite the miserable 7 years it pass us through. If things remain how they are then I am pretty sure we'll still be standing 20 more years (unless one or both of us kick the bucket). I won't lecture you how to be a United fan, don't do the same to me.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Actual great players like Harry Maguire

 

[devilish]

What on Earth has that got to do with what I posted.

For years you've called stalwarts of the club names like 'OShit', 'Carsick' and other suchlike insults.

You once asked for the Best statue to be taken down as he is a 'drunkard'.



This is the kind of shit I am talking about. Stop changing the subject.

And I still think that to this very day. The 'job for the boys' is killing the club. Let me be clear to you. Apart from family there's no one I love more then Manchester United. I would throw friends, idols or anyone really if I feel its good for the club.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Nice to see the op getting called out on his blatant hypocrisy.

So many on here who "blindly" support Ole were unbelievably critical of anything Mourinho did here, including him. Fecking eejits. Trainwreck of a thread.

 

[devilish]

Actual great players like Harry Maguire

I found that funny as well

 

[NoneBmStore]

Carstick isn't mine. OShit, Mcfail and Barbietov are. I don't recall the George Best thing. It would be strange considering that I risked my job for an autograph of his.

I never liked shit players or players who didn't carried their weight. Period. I think that United's biggest problem is that we're too nice which means that people like Lingard take us for a massive ride. Ironically its what attracts me to United as well. We've got the nicest fans and players which kind of piss me off when I see dead weight abusing it.

How did O’Shea, McT (Tominay?) and Berbatov not give a feck about the club ?
Regarding Lingard, no one forced us to overpay him back in the day. We invited him for the ride, paid his fair and told him he could ride forever.

 

[Kag]

It’s a fair point.

Do you think you supported the club “the right way” when Mourinho was in charge?

It’s worth pointing that Mourinho was hellbent on tearing the club down its foundations, all in the name of his dying reputation. He is/was a mendacious little man who was not working in the best interests of the club.

There is a distinction between criticising Mourinho for that, and making a blanket assessment of what supporting a club is all about at the same time.

It was impossible to ‘support’ Mourinho for large parts of his time at United, particularly during the final 12 months.

 

[devilish]

How did O’Shea, McT (Tominay?) and Berbatov not give a feck about the club ?
Regarding Lingard, no one forced us to overpay him back in the day. We invited him for the ride, paid his fair and told him he could ride forever.

I said or

Oshea and McT were/are not good enough. Berbatov played with us as he never really bothered. If Pogba is lazy then you don't remember Berbatov.

United's problem is that we run like a business. A business will always go for the cheapest option if allowed to which means retaining Lingard is better then buying a new player and keeping a money making guy as CEO is better then appointing someone who actually understand football. That won't change unless the fans start showing their teeth and expect better. The club is owned by us guys. Ultimately if United go tits up we're the ones who'll still be there for it, not Jesse, not the Glazers but us. We should expect the club to be run better and any employee at the club to be good enough for his job and give his 100%

 

[Sied]

Before the internet you had toilet walls where folks could ”post” their opinions anonymously.

In 2021 I treat many online forums in the same way - I read posts and take them not that seriously and with often the same “aroma” in the air.

Support the club how you like, post whatever comment you like, but don’t cry foul when you get flamed for airing your opinions. It’s a 2-way street.

I like the toilet wall analogy. Many of the match day thread posts certainly have a written in shit on a public toilet wall feel to them.

 

[Wumminator]

Nice to see the op getting called out on his blatant hypocrisy.

So many on here who "blindly" support Ole were unbelievably critical of anything Mourinho did here, including him. Fecking eejits. Trainwreck of a thread.

Who was unbelievably critical of everything Mourinho did?

 

[Siorac]

It’s a fair point.



It’s worth pointing that Mourinho was hellbent on tearing the club down its foundations, all in the name of his dying reputation. He is/was a mendacious little man who was not working in the best interests of the club.

There is a distinction between criticising Mourinho for that, and making a blanket assessment of what supporting a club is all about at the same time.

It was impossible to ‘support’ Mourinho for large parts of his time at United, particularly during the final 12 months.

Look, I agree about Mourinho - but it still comes down to Wummy saying that when he criticises, it's for the right reasons, but when others do it, they aren't real fans. Because guess what? Those people who are critical and negative also believe they do it for the right reasons.