Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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From my research into Bican's numbers I think I know where that number might come from.
The number I have for Bican (only official senior goals - except national teams that include also friendlies) is 736 goals in 481 games, so by this account Ronaldo is already the best scorer of all time.
Basically what I get is this (some of the numbers in the czech republic are yet to be confirmed directly by me but multiple sources confirm the order of magnitude so it's fine for me to use them).
Rapid Vienna Amateurs: 3 goals in 2 games
Rapid Vienna: 68 goals in 61 games
Admira Vienna (today named Flyeralarm Vienna): 21 goals in 32 games
Slavia Prague: 497 goals in 255 games
Sokol Viktovice Zelearmy (today named MFK Viktovice): 74 goals in 58 games
Sokol Skoda (today named Hradec Kralove): 19 goals in 9 games
Dynamo Prague (actually it's Slavia Prague under communist management): 22 goals in 29 games
Austria: 14 goals in 19 games
Czechoslovakia: 12 goals in 14 games
Bohemia-Moravia: 6 goals in 2 games
I will make later a table with the full breakdown.
Notes:
Amateurs of Rapid Vienna?
Well in this case yes. Why? Because those 2 games were actually in the Austrian Cup. Yes, the real thing.
And do you know who knocked out the Amateurs? Rapid Vienna itself! The Amateurs were crushed but Bican scored their goal. In the next stages Bican played for the main team.
Because they were playing in the real official competition, despite being amateurs, I consider these proper senior official games.
And the reserves?
Why are we counting reserve games, not only I can't check that data but also it did not play in an official division, even if regional. Nope.
What the hell is Bohemia-Moravia?
It was basically Czechia under nazi management. They made 3 games in 1939, Bican played in 2 (against Ostmark and Germany).
Nazi puppets playing against other nazi states? Well it's the closest thing to a czech "national" team and I think should be counted as officially by Germany it was a protectorate aka different country.
What about the goals with Prague and Ostrava and such?
From what I've seen those are just players from the regions and/or league just playing some games, I don't think it should count at all.
DIdn't he score more for Slavia?
Well, maybe, depends, yes, no? I'm counting only the games of the following competitions: Czechoslovak League, Czech Cup, Central Bohemian Cup and Mitropa Cup.
The first too are fine, what the hell is the Central Bohemian Cup?
Well only in 1939 the Czech Cup was created, before that there was a cup competition of central bohemian clubs (so not national-wide). These clubs tried to prevent the creation of a czech cup until in 1939 the federation finally created it.
The records for this are a bit shaky but in general the numbers match, I can't find all games so reports giving Bican 2 more goals or so are reasonable but I can't confirm.
Do they count as official? Well, it really depends. Maybe? I considered them here but it's to anyone's guess, it was prestigious when it existed.
And the Mitropa? This was basically a central european champions league, a parallel to the latin cup. Does it count as official? Well I think it should be considered here because it was taken very seriously and there were no european competitions at that time.
But what about his number of 534 goals for Slavia? I dunno, can't find the extra 35 goals or so in these competitions.
759/760?
Well if you pick my number and add the reserve goals (24) you get to 760. Maybe the number comes from here, I dunno, and with the uncertainty it's likely some goal here and there were counted differently.
We are simply watching the greatest athlete of all time.
Blessed.
Blessed.
He's great, but he's not the greatest athlete of all time.
Based on RSSSF criteria, Bican has 805 goals, which probably includes his lower division/youth games as well. If based on same criteria Ronaldo would already have 777 goals instead of 759.
I think 759 goals is the figure which only count his official goals for clubs and country, excluding the youth games etc
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Agreed. You have to respect his numerous achievements and relentless drive to succeed but I wouldn’t even put him in the top ten greatest athletes of all time. For me, he hasn’t reached the icon status of a Muhammad Ali or a Michael Jordan, he’s just a notch below people like that
Wow that’s quite an impressive amount of effort and analysis, I’ve always thought it’s nearly impossible to analysis those informations accurately from the 1930s etc.
Saying that, I’ve always wonder the standard of football competition in Bican’s time, as he has been playing mainly during WW2 era, where many of his opponents were actually enlisted for war instead of playing football.
This is a quite amazing post.
Bravo mate this was a great read!
No matter, he’ll get there as well
I'm curious to find out which Athletes make your top 10 if the greatest Athlete in Football doesn't make that list.
Yeh I reckon he still has at least another 2-3 seasons of scoring around 40 goals per year/season in him (by then he will be 38-39). So he could even add another 100 goals, which would be well above the current record holder, whatever record it is.No matter, he’ll get there as well
2015 (at 30): 57 goals in 57 games
2016 (at 31): 55 goals in 57 games
2017 (at 32): 53 goals in 60 games
2018 (at 33): 49 goals in 53 games
2019 (at 34): 39 goals in 50 games
2020 (at 35): 44 goals in 45 games
2021 (at 36): 3 goals in 3 games (so far)
And these are suppose to be his declining years.
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Ronaldo should be given the record because he scored his goals against professionals and not farmers who smoked 18 cigarettes a day and went to the pub before the game.
Well for a start, I think Pele is the greatest athlete in football history. My top 10 (sportsmen) would include him, Jordan, Ali, Bolt, Gretzky, Bo Jackson, Phelps and Woods. If you’re genuinely making an all time list then you have to consider icons like Jesse Owens and Babe Ruth that were before our time. As I said, I’d put Ronaldo just a notch below the above names but he’s up there
We would have to agree to disagree on Pele being the greatest Athlete in Football history, when you consider the other professionals at the time he was competing with. I mean the Sport wasn't even that professional that time. So someone even half as dedicated as Pele was to Football, would have stood out more. But I cannot take anything away from him it's just my view.
Great list by the way, but a golfer?..are golfers considered Athletes?, genuine question.
Honestly, as per the word "athlete", I would pick a good decathlon athlete over any niche sport player. But this is off topic so I won't elaborate
It’s a fair question but I can’t really get into it as I don’t want to derail the thread, I understand that we’ve got to keep it on the topic of Cristiano as much as possible
Cr7 does not decline, the team he plays with or club just need to have his type of mentality and dedication and he will deliver even if he is 45 years
Cr7 is in that list since 2017 to be honest but arguably not no 1 but for me due to his consistency ,dedication,followers,impact he is no 1 and I mean it. Am not being a fan boy saying this.
I love you.
Has a 6th sense that allows him to be at the right place, at the right time.
Isn't he the highest goal scorer in Football history now?.
Romario probably still counting his Sunday league ones in fairness
SIIIIIIUUU
1/1
Nothing else to say.
Nothing else to say.
That is something many strikers have... what very few have is the ability to make that supercup goal look like a piece of effortless poaching - which it wasn't, perfect coordination and foot sensibility were required to efficiently send that ball past the keeper.
The best ... ever!
I would take him over any player, current or historic, he would elevate any team he plays in by many levels. His longevity and standards are incredible.
The best ... ever!
I would take him over any player, current or historic, he would elevate any team he plays in by many levels. His longevity and standards are incredible.
The best ... ever!
Nope.
Time to accept reality
Great player but clearly ... NopeTime to accept reality
In all honesty, I think you'd have a hard time finding a decathlon athlete who's as professional as Cristiano. In terms of training dedication etc. they might be on equal terms but if you consider how far Cristiano goes in terms of sleep management (5 times a day for 90 minutes), nutrition, recovery etc. it's almost mental and probabl gives him the edge. I mean, I doubt that someone with less wealth than him couldn't even handle the logistics of all that properly since you need to employ staff a decathlon athlete probabl couldn't afford.Honestly, as per the word "athlete", I would pick a good decathlon athlete over any niche sport player. But this is off topic so I won't elaborate
My friends always disagree too.The guy is a machine and a points production line.
760 goals down, 240 to go?
It is legit to disagree, but there is certainly nothing clear about itGreat player but clearly ... Nope
Where was he during the game against Inter?
Seems so, officially (excluding youth games) he scored 760 which is more than Bican 759 record. But not many media is reporting it.
Might be because FIFA lists Bican with 805 goals.
Personally I think those comparisons are silly to begin with. Apples and oranges. Pele gets constantly ridiculed for counting friendly matches though many of those very games were probably more competitive than many league games Cristiano and Messi played.
Incredible achievement anyways. Hope he keeps on going. The way he maintains his body it's possible he sets new benchmarks in terms of longevity. At this point I don't think it's unreasonable to expect he'll compete for top scorer in a top 5 league aged 45+
He should go down as amongst the best ever. In the Messi, Pele, Matadona, Cruyff bracket
Might as well wait until he hits 806 to make it 100%
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