Why would Pogba want to leave United now?

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Shameful, lazy post. Were you in here when the Rooney thing was going on? He got dogs abuse from plenty. Why the need to introduce the race thing? Have you ANYTHING to suggest that any of your fellow Caf members hold Paul's race against him? Or just a vague feeling. Sometimes it's better to keep that shit in hour head.

I believe the comments made about his attitude, haircuts & dancing are brought on by his race, whether conscious or unconscious, well that probably varies, but yes, I believe his race plays a part & I believe he would take less stick if he was a white man. I know this is a touchy subject & im not saying he’s hated because he’s black, but do I believe him being black does play a part? yes 1000%

I’m not talking about the caf, I’m talking about the fan base as a whole. Rooney tried to force moves to two title rivals, one City. What Pogba has done isn’t as bad, yet he’s hated far more than Wayne was.

 

[Random Task]

Does @Schmeichel's Cartwheel call anyone racist & does he say he believes his race may play a role?

If I could be arsed to trawl the many Pogba threads, you’ll find people criticising his hairstyle, the way he dresses, the way he spends his money, the way he dances, the way he acts with his family, all number of cultural differences etc. What is lazy is turning a blind eye to the many critical posts that ignore his on field performances yet draw the most negative assumptions for no factual reason. Are those all due to race? no but again, no ones said they are; he simply said it plays a role.

If the last year, or 400+ have shown us anything society is full of racists; the United fanbase of made up of members of that society so needless to say some won’t like Pogba because he’s black. It’s really not a controversial statement.

No one is saying or has said everyone that is critical is solely basing it on race so move on.


Not here to be your errand boy lad.

You’ve been around this forum far too long & are far too active to say every criticism is solely based on his on field performances but this is a forum where people defended a guy saying being called ginger was akin to being called a n* so I don’t expect anything more.

I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not but in the case of the former, stick me on ignore please.

It's just that you were quite specific with the time and place (lockdown + Pogba threads) so I naturally assumed you were going to link a few posts of racism taking place. But you didn't, rather you decided to label a select number of member racist based on your generalised statement: "society is full of racists". That's a bit harsh, mate. You can't assume people are racist just because society says statistically speaking they might be.

Why would I put you on ignore?

 

[Random Task]

I believe the comments made about his attitude, haircuts & dancing are brought on by his race, whether conscious or unconscious, well that probably varies, but yes, I believe his race plays a part & I believe he would take less stick if he was a white man. I know this is a touchy subject & im not saying he’s hated because he’s black, but do I believe him being black does play a part? yes 1000%

I’m not talking about the caf, I’m talking about the fan base as a whole. Rooney tried to force moves to two title rivals, one City. What Pogba has done isn’t as bad, yet he’s hated far more than Wayne was.

The difference is Rooney has achieved so much with United that any past transgressions are largely forgiven. Pogba has achieved nothing with the club thus he's not afforded the same leeway.

You get what you earn and all that

 

[dinostar77]

So you think the backlash would be just as nasty if he was a white man? I’m not saying him being black is the only reason, but I think it contributes, absolutely.

I honestly dont see colour when i see players. I see footballers. I think most fans are the same way. If he were white? Yep he'd still get the same criticism.

The biggest crime in football is wasted potential. Fans are all frustrated wannabe players because we would all love that chance, to be a professional footballer. So when we see a player and especially one who has come through the youth ranks not forefill that potential, then it gets frustrating.

Its not that Pogba is black, its that Pogba is a homegrown Utd player and we have high expectations of our own players. The bar is quite high, Edwards, Best, Whiteside, Beckham, Giggs, Scholes. Pogba should be on this list he should be winning our hearts with his performances on the pitch, but because he doesnt, it breaks our hearts and that hurts.

 

[James35]

Win the title he stays in my opinion, if we fail sell him in the summer. Hopefully we go all out for Grealish in the summer...even if Pogba stays.

 

[Rozay]

I'm on this side of the argument. I don't mind refreshing a squad every few years, or it risks going stale. 5 years sounds right to me to give to a club, apart from those one-club men. If I ran a club, I would be conscious to move on players at the right time, and replace them properly with players I've been watching a while. Let's not be blinded by a few good games. This is the right time to move Pogba on. For everyone's good.

The amount of times I’ve read on here that a position is ‘sorted for the next 10 years’, or x is a great price because for ‘12 years of service it only works out as...’.

Football rarely works like that ever, and it doesn’t need to be over complicated trying to fond out why.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Always found it odd he never got a chant, can anyone shed some light as to why? Or does he have one?

 

[MadDogg]

Pogba wants to compete for top honours. The question he will have is whether this is just another false dawn or whether we are truly in the process of getting back to the top. We've had a few false dawns already (his first year when we won the few trophies, the year we came second, the big improvement when Ole first took over, the second half of last season) and each time we followed it up with a poor period so it was one step forward, one step back. He won't want to sign a new contract and be caught in another three or four years like that.

The second part of the situation is, as the OP states, there are no obvious options that guarantees him that except PSG. Real, Barca and Juve have obviously been far better teams than us during Pogba's time here so I'm sure the idea would have been that he'd have quite a few options available. But all three are now struggling and look like they may need to rebuild, with Barca in particular having serious financial issues. Of course the thing is that those three teams will still almost certainly make the CL and have a chance for for the league title even when they are rebuilding just because their leagues don't have the depth that the PL does.

I think there's a strong chance that Pogba doesn't know what he wants to do right now. Part of him probably wants to stay and help us win titles, but he's worried that this is a false dawn and he'll be stuck in another 3 or 4 years like the last few years. Part of him probably wants to go and win titles elsewhere, but he's worried that he'll go to a team that is just starting the process that we've just gone through while we might finally be at the end of that process. PSG may be the obvious exception but I'm not sure how he feels about them.

 

[Random Task]

Always found it odd he never got a chant, can anyone shed some light as to why? Or does he have one?

You don't remember this classic?

He's Pogba, Pogba, Pogba

He's twice as good as Drogba, Drogba, Drogba

He's signed for United, United, United

The Reds all got excited, excited, excited

That lasted a few games before the cringiness of it became too much to handle for the fans.

No one bothered to make a new one since.

 

[Berbasbullet]

You don't remember this classic?

He's Pogba, Pogba, Pogba

He's twice as good as Drogba, Drogba, Drogba

He's signed for United, United, United

The Reds all got excited, excited, excited

That lasted a few games before the cringiness of it became too much to handle for the fans.

No one bothered to make a new one since.

Blanked it from my memory

 

[Offsideagain]

Why would Pogba want to leave United? That is the Question. Answer: Because his agent sees £££££ in a transfer and he has had his head turned by him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I’m sorry to say this because I wish it wasn’t the case, but I think his race plays a part in why he’s so hated by a portion of fans. Yes he’s asked to leave, but so did Rooney. I think because he’s a confident flashy black lad who comes across a bit arrogant it really rubs some of the “top red” types the wrong way. I guarantee if he was white he would not receive the same level of hate. He’d get some, but nowhere near as much.

jesus. You come out with some utter crap.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Not this again.
Why is it so difficult to understand that fans expect Pogba to be top class? Was better than McSauce is not the standard expected.

He not just better than McTominay, he's class some times and some times he's not. Fans expect him to be our savior everytime all by himself, he's not that kind of player nor has that kind of leadership. He's a player than contributes but wont carry the whole team by his own, and thats ok very few players can. Thankfully Bruno seems to be one of those few.

But that kind of expectations are the reason why Pogba won't be recognized here until the team wons major trophies. He takes so much part of the spot light that no matter what he does individually it wont be enough unless the team wins. He had a great 2018/19 season, most goals, assists, chances created, etc the only player from our team in the best XI of the PL that season and still didnt won POY here, it was Shaw.

Thats why I understand Pogba, he must think why stay if I dont get recognition and the team does not provide me with enough elements to challenge for major titles?

Of course all this can change if we prove this season that we can do it, then I think Pogba will definitely stay.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It's just that you were quite specific with the time and place (lockdown + Pogba threads) so I naturally assumed you were going to link a few posts of racism taking place. But you didn't, rather you decided to label a select number of member racist based on your generalised statement: "society is full of racists". That's a bit harsh, mate. You can't assume people are racist just because society says statistically speaking they might be.

Why would I put you on ignore?

I wasn’t being specific because the examples of micro aggressions aren’t uncommon. Someone mention the [again irrational] disdain for Rooney on this forum earlier but I would contest that most of that is focused on him wanting to leave on 2 occasions; not his reported adultery or his driving offence under the influence of alcohol or him being recorded having a fight in which he was knocked unconscious during a football season; now contrast that to micro aggressions aimed at Pogba; his attitude, his ego, his style etc. despite fellow players attesting he’s a good member of the squad he’s known by large numbers on here as a virus. Now to reiterate, no one has said all this occurs because of his race but what was mentioned that I agreed with is that a number of the perceptions about who he is/what he thinks etc. may indeed be rooted in the stereotypes some believe he embodies.

What select number have I labelled racist? I’ve made a statement about society which I would say is indisputable [but feel free to tell me there is no racism] & then said the forum is made up of said society, I’m not assuming racism or calling anyone a racist I’m reading what this forum has to say about one of its best players in most threads about him & drawing the conclusion some [not all] aren’t really analysing the football.

Again I’m not your errand boy & we all know what happens when people assume. You don’t even need to go back to lockdown; head to the Raiola thread & you’ll see it’s littered with posters making definitive statements about how Pogba sees himself & what he is instead of actual appraisal of his, somewhat underwhelming stint as a United player.

Now does that mean thinking he should leave is racist, no. Does it mean not liking Pogba means you’re racist? no but nobody has said it does.

The question is, why when @Schmeichel's Cartwheel simply stated he believes race plays a factor in some instances, not all - some; are triggered forum members dismissing the notion entirely?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

jesus. You come out with some utter crap.

Pot. Kettle. Bla[oops].

 

[layzie702]

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel

As a black man myself I think that the hate of pogba has nothing to do with him being black, the myth that most black people have chips on their shoulders is because of statement like yours.

It’s nothing to do with him being black, Rooney is white. He got more abuse twice as much as Pogba, fans even don’t class him as a Man Utd legend because he flirted with moving. Look out for the thread on her “Should Rooney have a statue” Look at the comments there Rooney is WHITE.

It’s more about his attitude, his personal image, at one point it seemed like his physical appearance and celebration was more important than pitch performance, I used to strongly dislike Pogba for that reason, I’m black so this doesn’t make me racist.

Let people have their opinion bro, he is doing well now that’s all that matters to me

 

[MadDogg]

I honestly dont see colour when i see players. I see footballers. I think most fans are the same way. If he were white? Yep he'd still get the same criticism.

You may not see colour, but are you effected by criticism from others that do?

We all know that there are some in the media that happily go out of their way to write negative articles about black players, while ignoring (or sometimes writing positive articles) white players doing the exact same. Sterling is the obvious example, with the difference between Greenwood and Foden at the beginning of this season also seeming to be another. Those are almost blatant levels of racism. There is also the criticism (normally by middle age or older white men) of things that just so happen to be more wide-spread in 'black culture' than they are in their own lifestyle, such as the dancing and unique hairstyles. Beckham is the only white player I can remember having significant attention on haircuts, and that was something he actively encouraged and it was more often reported in a positive light. This criticism isn't so much blatant racism, but more subconscious racism by older white men criticising things that they don't have any experience with and so they subconsciously see it in a negative light. Pogba's spending one hour a week getting his hair styled and also being seen regularly dancing in the dressing room? Obviously he's not taking football seriously, his attention is elsewhere and he's a bad influence in the dressing room. Ignore the fact that players of that previous generation spent hours at the pub every week and would even come to training drunk or hungover, that was just boys being boys.

If there's enough criticism of both those elements around, then that has a knock on effect that even completely non-racist people start seeing him in a negative light and are more likely to make a big deal about things that they wouldn't really comment on for anyone else. Neville is a good example of someone I think is in that category. I don't think he's racist at all and I don't think he's criticised any of the above stuff, but I do think he's been subconsciously effected by the negative narrative that others have built around Pogba so now he himself is more likely to be unfairly critical. I think a lot of people are now in this category, where they themselves aren't racist but the over-the-top negativity that the media has used has impacted them subconsciously.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

So you think the backlash would be just as nasty if he was a white man? I’m not saying him being black is the only reason, but I think it contributes, absolutely.

Has the vitriol been that bad? Most of what I see is people thinking him leaving is inevitable and calling his agent a cnut. Wayne and Rio took a lot of abuse when they flirted with other teams and Tevez and Heinze have absolutely had it worse.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I wasn’t being specific because the examples of micro aggressions aren’t uncommon. Someone mention the [again irrational] disdain for Rooney on this forum earlier but I would contest that most of that is focused on him wanting to leave on 2 occasions; not his reported adultery or his driving offence under the influence of alcohol or him being recorded having a fight in which he was knocked unconscious during a football season; now contrast that to micro aggressions aimed at Pogba; his attitude, his ego, his style etc. despite fellow players attesting he’s a good member of the squad he’s known by large numbers on here as a virus. Now to reiterate, no one has said all this occurs because of his race but what was mentioned that I agreed with is that a number of the perceptions about who he is/what he thinks etc. may indeed be rooted in the stereotypes some believe he embodies.

What select number have I labelled racist? I’ve made a statement about society which I would say is indisputable [but feel free to tell me there is no racism] & then said the forum is made up of said society, I’m not assuming racism or calling anyone a racist I’m reading what this forum has to say about one of its best players in most threads about him & drawing the conclusion some [not all] aren’t really analysing the football.

Again I’m not your errand boy & we all know what happens when people assume. You don’t even need to go back to lockdown; head to the Raiola thread & you’ll see it’s littered with posters making definitive statements about how Pogba sees himself & what he is instead of actual appraisal of his, somewhat underwhelming stint as a United player.

Now does that mean thinking he should leave is racist, no. Does it mean not liking Pogba means you’re racist? no but nobody has said it does.

The question is, why when @Schmeichel's Cartwheel simply stated he believes race plays a factor in some instances, not all - some; are triggered forum members dismissing the notion entirely?

To be fair he was just sparring with a friend and Bardsley over did it. They used to spar all the time apparently.

 

[El-Manos]

If we manage to win the title and bring in some young promising players he will stay I reckon.

 

[Conor]

I can list a ton of reasons why he rubs people up the wrong way and none of them have anything to do with race

1- the way he left the club the first time
2- his price tag and that he's never lived up to it
3- that we've tried god knows how many midfield partners and formations to 'get the best out of him' and still don't know how to to this day
4- his languid playing style
5- his tactical naivety
6- his agent
7- the fact he's spoken openly numerous times himself about wanting to leave or wanting to join other clubs

Nothing to do with skin tone it's that on the pitch he's just not worth the drama off of it

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

He probably won’t want to leave if he thinks we will be league and CL challengers for the years to come.

 

[steffyr2]

I believe the comments made about his attitude, haircuts & dancing are brought on by his race, whether conscious or unconscious, well that probably varies, but yes, I believe his race plays a part & I believe he would take less stick if he was a white man. I know this is a touchy subject & im not saying he’s hated because he’s black, but do I believe him being black does play a part? yes 1000%

I’m not talking about the caf, I’m talking about the fan base as a whole. Rooney tried to force moves to two title rivals, one City. What Pogba has done isn’t as bad, yet he’s hated far more than Wayne was.

Some racism, some anti-Utd. These are the same guys who loved 'Stevie G', and Frank Lampard and John Terry....but not Rooney and NEVER Rio.

IIRC, they called Ronaldo a show pony....lots of ability to see talent there....

Pogba has been at Utd for what? 10 years? He's probably getting bored, and doesn't like Manchester, and would prefer to play a different style of football with a different team.

 

[Lentwood]

He won’t if we continue to be in with a plausible chance of winning the title right up until the end of the season.

I have been critical about Pogba for many things but I’ve never criticised a world cup winner for wanting to leave a team finishing in mid-table.

Now we are starting to look genuinely competitive again I wouldn’t be surprised to see him sign a new deal. I’d actually love it just to see Raiola’s tears as a big juicy agent’s fee slips through his hands

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The difference is Rooney has achieved so much with United that any past transgressions are largely forgiven. Pogba has achieved nothing with the club thus he's not afforded the same leeway.

You get what you earn and all that

It’s not really a fair comparison though is it. Rooney played under our greatest ever manager in one of our greatest ever teams. Pogba was sold a dream of us chasing titles & then paired with Fellaini.

The question is, why when @Schmeichel's Cartwheel simply stated he believes race plays a factor in some instances, not all - some; are triggered forum members dismissing the notion entirely?

Unfortunate, but unsurprising. I’ve been to games & heard fans shout “stupid fecking n*****” at him, which is obviously an extreme example, but even the unconscious bias is there. People using aspects of his culture, like the dancing for example, rather than what he does on the pitch to criticise him. How bloody dare he wear gold earrings, dance & change his haircut every 2 weeks, I just don’t think we’d hear these criticisms if he was white. I really don’t. Talk about him not living up to expectations, sure, but that’s not what most fans talk about. I’m not saying everyone who doesn’t rate Pogba is racist, of course not, but I think his race plays some part in the particularly nasty vitriol aimed at him, and the media have played their part in that.

 

[Tincanalley]

It’s a four-letter word, standing in for a five letter name. Because, that ***** ***t.

 

[lex talionis]

I suppose what it comes down to is what Pogba wants out of his playing career. He's already won a World Cup and numerous league trophies. His legacy as a France great is already cemented but his career at Juve was too short to be considered a club great. He clearly hasn't done enough to be a United great, but if he sticks it out another few seasons with us and leads us to a CL trophy (no, I do not use controlled substances) there could be reasonable conversation about legend status for Pogba. But he would need to give us 2-3 seasons of the kind of performances we know he's capable of. Obviously, he's more than set life financially and if he remains at United he'll earn more here than he would anywhere else.

But what does he want? I have no idea.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

1) Agent fees cap is going to be implemented soon.
2) He is idolized in juventus. Life will be easier for him there.
3) He can move for free soon. Basically he can pick which club he wants to go. They all will be interested when he is free. The pogba brand will get them to pay half of his salary anyway.


Verdict: sell while he is still valuable.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

To be fair he was just sparring with a friend and Bardsley over did it. They used to spar all the time apparently.

Which is fair but I think the point that was/is being made is that say Pogba got KO’d kick boxing with his brothers & a video was leaked then it would be another stick used to beat him with not just some anecdote as it is/was with Rooney. The unprofessionalism if he scored & celebrated with a KO celebration would cause the Caf servers to dissolve.

I hate comparing Rooney & Pogba as one is a club legend whereas the other is a World Class talent during a baron period.

Unfortunate, but unsurprising. I’ve been to games & heard fans shout “stupid fecking n*****” at him, which is obviously an extreme example, but even the unconscious bias is there. People using aspects of his culture, like the dancing for example, rather than what he does on the pitch to criticise him. How bloody dare he wear gold earrings, dance & change his haircut every 2 weeks, I just don’t think we’d hear these criticisms if he was white. I really don’t. Talk about him not living up to expectations, sure, but that’s not what most fans talk about. I’m not saying everyone who doesn’t rate Pogba is racist, of course not, but I think his race plays some part in the particularly nasty vitriol aimed at him, and the media have played their part in that.

Needs putting in bold so the precious cretins stop trying to subvert your initial post from i what it actually said.

I get to about 10 games a season, usually in the 100 club through work but my mate has Season Tickets in the East Stand which I sometimes go on & I’ve experienced a few micro aggressions as a black person but never heard any overt racism but there’s definitely a different tone to the criticism black players get which is the case at all the grounds I’ve been too - I think it’s subconscious if anything mostly but anyone saying the video below is simply due to his poor performances can feck right off; it was a disgrace - I don’t think I was a member of the forum at the time but I was a lurker & some cretins on here were loving it. . .


You raised a valid point, I honestly don’t get why people get so defensive over it.

Any fan wondering why he’s be contemplating leaving only need watch that video - I’d be collecting my pay cheque & counting down the days too.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Rooney tried to force moves to two title rivals, one City. What Pogba has done isn’t as bad, yet he’s hated far more than Wayne was

That's simply not true. Rooney was absolutely savaged by a large portion of the fanbase at the time.

In fact, he was constantly savaged in the early post-SAF years too. Rooney, for what he's achieved at United, is one of our most underappreciated players.

Maguire gets destroyed on this forum. He's treated like he's Championship material at times, let alone the personal vitriol he recieves. Likewise Phil Jones.

Fletcher used to be given a hard time. McTominay was widely mocked on this forum.

I genuinely think that race is not a factor in this forum and the United fanbase's negative treatment of Pogba. I think he's well liked overall and if not, I don't think it's because of race.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Does @Schmeichel's Cartwheel call anyone racist & does he say he believes his race may play a role?

If I could be arsed to trawl the many Pogba threads, you’ll find people criticising his hairstyle, the way he dresses, the way he spends his money, the way he dances, the way he acts with his family, all number of cultural differences etc. What is lazy is turning a blind eye to the many critical posts that ignore his on field performances yet draw the most negative assumptions for no factual reason. Are those all due to race? no but again, no ones said they are; he simply said it plays a role.

If the last year, or 400+ have shown us anything society is full of racists; the United fanbase of made up of members of that society so needless to say some won’t like Pogba because he’s black. It’s really not a controversial statement.

No one is saying or has said everyone that is critical is solely basing it on race so move on.


Not here to be your errand boy lad.

You’ve been around this forum far too long & are far too active to say every criticism is solely based on his on field performances but this is a forum where people defended a guy saying being called ginger was akin to being called a n* so I don’t expect anything more.

I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not but in the case of the former, stick me on ignore please.

I believe the comments made about his attitude, haircuts & dancing are brought on by his race, whether conscious or unconscious, well that probably varies, but yes, I believe his race plays a part & I believe he would take less stick if he was a white man. I know this is a touchy subject & im not saying he’s hated because he’s black, but do I believe him being black does play a part? yes 1000%

I’m not talking about the caf, I’m talking about the fan base as a whole. Rooney tried to force moves to two title rivals, one City. What Pogba has done isn’t as bad, yet he’s hated far more than Wayne was.

I didnt want to get involved in this but here goes and don't bite my head off but....

I have to say I don't really agree with what you two are putting forward here, in fact I actively disagree. This isn't me saying there's no United fans out there who may criticise Pogba more so because he's black, there probably are but I don't believe it is significant enough above other reasons he gets criticism. I actually think it's kind of incorrect too. I actually think some of the certain aspects of Paul Pogba that you mention actually make him more likeable to a lot of United fans and that is why factually speaking he is one of our most popular players. Look at his instagram following for instance.

Now correct me if i'm well off the mark here but I bolded the comments you made above because I don't really like what they imply. You both seem to be linking him dancing, getting haircuts and spending money with his race/culture. As if it's a 'black' thing to do those things. You're then suggesting people are linking these things to his race and thus the criticisms he receives because of it are due to him being black. First of all, these aren't black things, they're just things. There are hundreds of non black players who dance, get haircuts and do extravagant things.
Paul Pogba is massively popular BECAUSE of these things, he's given a lot of leeway BECAUSE of these things. A lot of people enjoy his extravagant ways (me included) . The Pogba family dancing at a wedding is one of my favourite things. Paul Pogbas whacky hair gives me the occasional laugh but to me these things have feck all to do with his race.

And as someone who has criticised Pogba a lot I can tell you the above stuff is completely irrelevant in isolation as to why he rubs me the wrong way on the occasions I criticise him. Paul Pogba is the most talented player at the club, he's our most expensive ever signing, he graduated from our academy.
Expectation and a desire to see him do well therefore are escalated and are probably higher than for any other player, even Rashford. This will automatically mean more scrutiny and attention. Now Paul Pogba has tried to leave United about five times in his career. He has an agent who repeatedly comes out slagging off the club, and on none of these occasions has Paul Pogba spoken out against it. Paul Pogba has spent almost five years here and has failed to deliver the expected consistent performances. There is literally no other United player in our history who you can say these things about.

Now as a United supporter, this irritates me and if we've lost a game and I'm on instagram and I see Paul Pogba dabbing in his swimming pool, I'm going to be a little bit extra annoyed. My guess is this is how the majority of United fans occasionally feel about Pogba and then they come on here and vent. However, if he does it after a victory, I'm lapping it up as are others. It will for the overwhelming majority of time have nothing to do with his race and not be seen as a negative. I mean who the feck didn't enjoy Lingard moonwalking at the Emirates?
What should be mentioned again, is that there's also a lot (especially younger fans) who actually look at Pogba's continuous positivity and his flashy ways, in spite of the on field disappointments and look up to him.

Like I initially said, I don't doubt there's a few racists out there ready to stick the knife in on him but if you come on a United forum and put that kind of comment out in a thread, people aren't going to take too kindly to it, regardless of you saying things like "its not everyone", "I dont mean the Cafe". It shouldn't need to be mentioned at all because it isn't significant enough to be and it doesn't explain the extra criticism he gets when you weight everything up.
In relation to your Rooney comment that I bolded too, remember than Rooney received death threats when he was linked with city, remember that people turned up outside his house 'wanting to talk'. Also remember that Wayne Rooney went on to become our greatest ever scorer and basically sacrificed personal glory for the team on a regular basis during his time here. Expecting him to receive more criticism than Pogba is truly baffling.

And as @Fridge chutney states, the flack Harry Maguire receives on here and other media platforms it above that of Pogba. Maybe you just don't see it...

 

[Andrew Richmond]

It’s good to see Pogba performing something near what he is capable of, and hopefully his form will continue to the seasons end. I still think he will be gone in the summer.

 

[dinostar77]

Well said @Leroy The Red.

Personally his off the field stuff is nothing at all. That never factors in for me. Thats his personality and what he likes. Good for him. I dont care what any player does off the field as long as they arent getting pissed and stumbling out pubs/nughtclubs a day or two before a game.

Pogba critism is about failed expectations of a extraordinarily talented player.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I didnt want to get involved in this but here goes and don't bite my head off but....

I have to say I don't really agree with what you two are putting forward here, in fact I actively disagree. This isn't me saying there's no United fans out there who may criticise Pogba more so because he's black, there probably are but I don't believe it is significant enough above other reasons he gets criticism. I actually think it's kind of incorrect too. I actually think some of the certain aspects of Paul Pogba that you mention actually make him more likeable to a lot of United fans and that is why factually speaking he is one of our most popular players. Look at his instagram following for instance.

Now correct me if i'm well off the mark here but I bolded the comments you made above because I don't really like what they imply. You both seem to be linking him dancing, getting haircuts and spending money with his race/culture. As if it's a 'black' thing to do those things. You're then suggesting people are linking these things to his race and thus the criticisms he receives because of it are due to him being black. First of all, these aren't black things, they're just things. There are hundreds of non black players who dance, get haircuts and do extravagant things.
Paul Pogba is massively popular BECAUSE of these things, he's given a lot of leeway BECAUSE of these things. A lot of people enjoy his extravagant ways (me included) . The Pogba family dancing at a wedding is one of my favourite things. Paul Pogbas whacky hair gives me the occasional laugh but to me these things have feck all to do with his race.

And as someone who has criticised Pogba a lot I can tell you the above stuff is completely irrelevant in isolation as to why he rubs me the wrong way on the occasions I criticise him. Paul Pogba is the most talented player at the club, he's our most expensive ever signing, he graduated from our academy.
Expectation and a desire to see him do well therefore are escalated and are probably higher than for any other player, even Rashford. This will automatically mean more scrutiny and attention. Now Paul Pogba has tried to leave United about five times in his career. He has an agent who repeatedly comes out slagging off the club, and on none of these occasions has Paul Pogba spoken out against it. Paul Pogba has spent almost five years here and has failed to deliver the expected consistent performances. There is literally no other United player in our history who you can say these things about.

Now as a United supporter, this irritates me and if we've lost a game and I'm on instagram and I see Paul Pogba dabbing in his swimming pool, I'm going to be a little bit extra annoyed. My guess is this is how the majority of United fans occasionally feel about Pogba and then they come on here and vent. However, if he does it after a victory, I'm lapping it up as are others. It will for the overwhelming majority of time have nothing to do with his race and not be seen as a negative. I mean who the feck didn't enjoy Lingard moonwalking at the Emirates?
What should be mentioned again, is that there's also a lot (especially younger fans) who actually look at Pogba's continuous positivity and his flashy ways, in spite of the on field disappointments and look up to him.

Like I initially said, I don't doubt there's a few racists out there ready to stick the knife in on him but if you come on a United forum and put that kind of comment out in a thread, people aren't going to take too kindly to it, regardless of you saying things like "its not everyone", "I dont mean the Cafe". It shouldn't need to be mentioned at all because it isn't significant enough to be and it doesn't explain the extra criticism he gets when you weight everything up.
In relation to your Rooney comment that I bolded too, remember than Rooney received death threats when he was linked with city, remember that people turned up outside his house 'wanting to talk'. Also remember that Wayne Rooney went on to become our greatest ever scorer and basically sacrificed personal glory for the team on a regular basis during his time here. Expecting him to receive more criticism than Pogba is truly baffling.

And as @Fridge chutney states, the flack Harry Maguire receives on here and other media platforms it above that of Pogba. Maybe you just don't see it...

Good post.

Making several reasoned points but you’ve not boldened the part where @Schmeichel's Cartwheel says he’s been in the ground & heard people call Pogba ‘n*gag’ which is nothing to do with the ‘non-black things’ you’ve tried to dismiss.

Let’s also not forget when Pogba & Rashford were racially targeted by ‘United fans’ online.

As I say you make some good points throughout your post but you’re rather ignoring the fact that both of us have only stated race plays a role in some, again not all but some, of the way he is targeted & discussed.

As far as the things we state not being ‘black things’ you’re correct so why is he critiqued for them when a white player getting hair highlights isn’t an issue or videos on Social Media of them at home with family aren’t critiqued. You’re actually proving the point, he’s criticised for things everyone does.

You can’t even buy a house as a black footballer in this country but mention race on the Caf & people will do anything to undermine the discussion.

Disagreement on this forum isn’t biting someone’s head off but it’s rather clear that the second a forum member raises the issue of race a rather loud part of the forum are quick to shut the notion down in it’s entirety which says a lot about the Caf imo.

Racism isn’t simply throwing bananas on the pitch & it’s an insult to the minorities that post on this forum to act as if it has to be.

No one in this thread has said all United fans are racist, you have even accepted the likelihood that a certain number of United fans may be but you’ve written War & peace to undermine a rather tame statement made focusing on the parts you deem questionable rather than the whole statement.

To reiterate for the sensitive souls in the Caf; you can dislike Pogba & not be racially motivated. All that was stated is that during his time at United it’s rather undeniable that race has played a role in the coverage & certain fans perceptions.

 

[Andy_Cole]

I heard somewhere that he just isn't a huge fan of the actual city of Manchester.

This is wrong. He considers here as home. He has so many friends here. He’s a friend of a friend.

He just thinks he should be winning the highest honours and gave up on us. To be fair maybe he will stay after this season.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

He will leave if he feels like we can’t challenge for the major trophies.Either way,I don’t think his departure would cripple us...

 

[Pat Evra]

Well, obviously we'll have to wait until the summer to get the wanted answers. Depending on the results, he'll probably get an offer for a new contract here.

If he rejects, then obviously United should sell him. Letting him stay and then leaving for free in the summer of 2022nd isn't an option.

Anyway, there are few other factors apart from our results, but I don't think we'll know anything more before this summer.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

That's simply not true. Rooney was absolutely savaged by a large portion of the fanbase at the time.

In fact, he was constantly savaged in the early post-SAF years too. Rooney, for what he's achieved at United, is one of our most underappreciated players.

Maguire gets destroyed on this forum. He's treated like he's Championship material at times, let alone the personal vitriol he recieves. Likewise Phil Jones.

Fletcher used to be given a hard time. McTominay was widely mocked on this forum.

I genuinely think that race is not a factor in this forum and the United fanbase's negative treatment of Pogba. I think he's well liked overall and if not, I don't think it's because of race.

Ok, cool. I wasn’t talking about this forum. Nobody ever questioned any of their attitudes. Nobody ever talked about the clothes they wear or their Instagram, or their dancing. Maguire took less flack for getting arrested in Greece than Pogba did for dancing at his brothers wedding.

if you’re talking talking about this forum then i don’t see how you can bring up McTominay. He is praised for looking passionate & running around. The bar for him to get MOTM votes is so low it’s actually ridiculous. The caf absolutely adore McT, you would think he was prime Kante the way he’s spoken about on here.

If you think race plays zero part in Pogba’s treatment than I really don’t know what to say to you..

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Ok, cool. I wasn’t talking about this forum. Nobody ever questioned any of their attitudes. Nobody ever talked about the clothes they wear or their Instagram, or their dancing. Maguire took less flack for getting arrested in Greece than Pogba did for dancing at his brothers wedding.

if you’re talking talking about this forum then i don’t see how you can bring up McTominay. He is praised for looking passionate & running around. The bar for him to get MOTM votes is so low it’s actually ridiculous. The caf absolutely adore McT, you would think he was prime Kante the way he’s spoken about on here.

If you think race plays zero part in Pogba’s treatment than I really don’t know what to say to you..

Mate give up.

I’ve posted a link to an article regarding Rashford & Pogba’s racial abuse by supporters whilst you’ve highlighted being in the stadium when a racial slur has been aimed in his direction.

Yet the precious Caf contingent see the word racism & want to dismiss it entirely.

You haven’t said the Caf is racist nor have you called all criticism of the player racist. You’ve drawn on personal experience & been backed up by multiple articles that support your initial statement.

Anybody speaking for a fanbase that numbers far into the millions as wholly one thing or another is a cretin, you haven’t done that but a number of posters have.

Your points on McT & Maguire are bang on as well.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I didnt want to get involved in this but here goes and don't bite my head off but....

I have to say I don't really agree with what you two are putting forward here, in fact I actively disagree. This isn't me saying there's no United fans out there who may criticise Pogba more so because he's black, there probably are but I don't believe it is significant enough above other reasons he gets criticism. I actually think it's kind of incorrect too. I actually think some of the certain aspects of Paul Pogba that you mention actually make him more likeable to a lot of United fans and that is why factually speaking he is one of our most popular players. Look at his instagram following for instance.

Now correct me if i'm well off the mark here but I bolded the comments you made above because I don't really like what they imply. You both seem to be linking him dancing, getting haircuts and spending money with his race/culture. As if it's a 'black' thing to do those things. You're then suggesting people are linking these things to his race and thus the criticisms he receives because of it are due to him being black. First of all, these aren't black things, they're just things. There are hundreds of non black players who dance, get haircuts and do extravagant things.
Paul Pogba is massively popular BECAUSE of these things, he's given a lot of leeway BECAUSE of these things. A lot of people enjoy his extravagant ways (me included) . The Pogba family dancing at a wedding is one of my favourite things. Paul Pogbas whacky hair gives me the occasional laugh but to me these things have feck all to do with his race.

And as someone who has criticised Pogba a lot I can tell you the above stuff is completely irrelevant in isolation as to why he rubs me the wrong way on the occasions I criticise him. Paul Pogba is the most talented player at the club, he's our most expensive ever signing, he graduated from our academy.
Expectation and a desire to see him do well therefore are escalated and are probably higher than for any other player, even Rashford. This will automatically mean more scrutiny and attention. Now Paul Pogba has tried to leave United about five times in his career. He has an agent who repeatedly comes out slagging off the club, and on none of these occasions has Paul Pogba spoken out against it. Paul Pogba has spent almost five years here and has failed to deliver the expected consistent performances. There is literally no other United player in our history who you can say these things about.

Now as a United supporter, this irritates me and if we've lost a game and I'm on instagram and I see Paul Pogba dabbing in his swimming pool, I'm going to be a little bit extra annoyed. My guess is this is how the majority of United fans occasionally feel about Pogba and then they come on here and vent. However, if he does it after a victory, I'm lapping it up as are others. It will for the overwhelming majority of time have nothing to do with his race and not be seen as a negative. I mean who the feck didn't enjoy Lingard moonwalking at the Emirates?
What should be mentioned again, is that there's also a lot (especially younger fans) who actually look at Pogba's continuous positivity and his flashy ways, in spite of the on field disappointments and look up to him.

Like I initially said, I don't doubt there's a few racists out there ready to stick the knife in on him but if you come on a United forum and put that kind of comment out in a thread, people aren't going to take too kindly to it, regardless of you saying things like "its not everyone", "I dont mean the Cafe". It shouldn't need to be mentioned at all because it isn't significant enough to be and it doesn't explain the extra criticism he gets when you weight everything up.
In relation to your Rooney comment that I bolded too, remember than Rooney received death threats when he was linked with city, remember that people turned up outside his house 'wanting to talk'. Also remember that Wayne Rooney went on to become our greatest ever scorer and basically sacrificed personal glory for the team on a regular basis during his time here. Expecting him to receive more criticism than Pogba is truly baffling.

And as @Fridge chutney states, the flack Harry Maguire receives on here and other media platforms it above that of Pogba. Maybe you just don't see it...

You’re right, the majority of people irritated by Pogba dont cate about his race. I never said they did. He can be annoying, his agent can be annoying, I get it, I’ve been annoyed with him several times over the last 5 years. You didn’t actually address my point though. I said I believe race “plays a part” in the particularly nasty vitriol he gets from certain fans, and absolutely plays a part in the way the media talk/write about him. There’s undoubtedly unconscious racism in football media. Look at Jack Grealish, he’s a fecking idiot off the pitch, yet it’s constantly swept under the carpet. If Jack Grealish was black I guarantee you his treatment would be different. Look at the recent treatment difference between our own Mason Greemwood & Phil foden. Both committed the same crime, in fact Foden was worse as he had a kid & a mrs, yet who did the media come down far harder on?

Is Pogba perfect? No. Can he be frustrating? Yes. Is his agent a dick? Yes. Do I believe most fans don’t like him because he’s black? No. Do I believe he would get an easier ride if he was white? Yes, 100%. That’s all im saying here.