Why would Pogba want to leave United now?

clarkydaz

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Consider the shit Phil jones has taken, reportedly turned down his testimonial due to perceived fan backlash

Fellaini was the point of extreme bile and ridicule

Maguire took loads of shit when he needed supporting the most

Tom Cleverly got shit for his TC23 brand

Giggs taken grief in his prime for supposedly phoning it in

People wanted Rooney out of the club when he was captain and closing in on the record

After the countless grenades weve had from Pogba and his backing cast what do you expect?
 
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Ok, cool. I wasn’t talking about this forum. Nobody ever questioned any of their attitudes. Nobody ever talked about the clothes they wear or their Instagram, or their dancing. Maguire took less flack for getting arrested in Greece than Pogba did for dancing at his brothers wedding.

if you’re talking talking about this forum then i don’t see how you can bring up McTominay. He is praised for looking passionate & running around. The bar for him to get MOTM votes is so low it’s actually ridiculous. The caf absolutely adore McT, you would think he was prime Kante the way he’s spoken about on here.

If you think race plays zero part in Pogba’s treatment than I really don’t know what to say to you..
If you are looking For red Audi’s that’s what you are going to see.

McT and Maguire get feck tons of abuse on here.

personally I’ve not even heard of Pogba dancing at his brothers wedding?

it’s very difficult to have a sensible, and calm discussion about race. Here is my summary of Pogba:

He’s an incredibly talented player, that came with massive expectations. Not just because of the player he is, but because he also came through the academy.

he hasn’t hit those expectations, and people are frustrated that he hasn’t, that he hasn’t be consistent over four years, that his agent talks shit all the time, that the French manager talks shit whenever he’s away on international duty.

everyone can see that he could be so much better.

Personally I see nothing to suggest he gets criticised because of his race - certainly not in the mainstream media. I’m not saying he doesn’t get racist abuse, I’m sure most BAME players do on Twatter etc.

but is the general perception of him affected by his race. No, not in my opinion.

he’s also a player that massively divides the fanbase.

So he’s going to get attention, he’s going to be critiqued, and analysed far more than most.
 

laughtersassassin

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A lot of our fans hate him and abused him would be one reason. If and when things go wrong he will be the scapegoat regardless of if he is the reason for it. Sure look at the shit he got last year for being injured.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Consider the shit Phil jones has taken, reportedly turned down his testimonial due to perceived fan backlash

Fellaini was the point of extreme bile and ridicule

Maguire took loads of shit when he needed supporting the most

Tom Cleverly got shit for his TC23 brand

Giggs taken grief in his prime for supposedly phoning it in

People wanted Rooney out of the club when he was captain and closing in on the record

After the countless grenades weve had from Pogba and his backing cast what do you expect?
You forgot the sh*t Luke Chadwick got.

But I don’t get the relevance.

Another poster wades in to a discussion they’re woefully unprepared for.

As you are hard of reading. Does criticism of Pogba equate to racism? No. Has Pogba deserved criticism over his tenure? Hell yes!

All @Schmeichel's Cartwheel did was give his own example of hearing a racial slur & has since been backed by articles that discuss the racial abuse Pogba & other black players have received from United fans.

Jog on with your equivocation, no one said white players don’t receive abuse.

If you are looking For red Audi’s that’s what you are going to see.

McT and Maguire get feck tons of abuse on here.

personally I’ve not even heard of Pogba dancing at his brothers wedding?

it’s very difficult to have a sensible, and calm discussion about race. Here is my summary of Pogba:

He’s an incredibly talented player, that came with massive expectations. Not just because of the player he is, but because he also came through the academy.

he hasn’t hit those expectations, and people are frustrated that he hasn’t, that he hasn’t be consistent over four years, that his agent talks shit all the time, that the French manager talks shit whenever he’s away on international duty.

everyone can see that he could be so much better.

Personally I see nothing to suggest he gets criticised because of his race - certainly not in the mainstream media. I’m not saying he doesn’t get racist abuse, I’m sure most BAME players do on Twatter etc.

but is the general perception of him affected by his race. No, not in my opinion.

he’s also a player that massively divides the fanbase.

So he’s going to get attention, he’s going to be critiqued, and analysed far more than most.
I was waiting for you to wade in again with your bullsh*t.

Guess Marcus was after a Red Audi in his twitter comments

Read what’s written. No one has said all criticism is racism but anytime the subject rears its head I can count on LeftPeg for nonsense.

Most news outlets if not all have ‘twatter’ accounts but yea try & subvert the mainstream.

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel has heard people call Pogba racial slurs in the crowd ffs!

You dismiss the conversation of race as looking for a car colour then say it’s hard to have the discussion which it is when people don’t enter one in good faith.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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You forgot the sh*t Luke Chadwick got.

But I don’t get the relevance.

Another poster wades in to a discussion they’re woefully unprepared for.

As you are hard of reading. Does criticism of Pogba equate to racism? No. Has Pogba deserved criticism over his tenure? Hell yes!

All @Schmeichel's Cartwheel did was give his own example of hearing a racial slur & has since been backed by articles that discuss the racial abuse Pogba & other black players have received from United fans.

Jog on with your equivocation, no one said white players don’t receive abuse.


I was waiting for you to wade in again with your bullsh*t.

Guess Marcus was after a Red Audi in his twitter comments

Read what’s written. No one has said all criticism is racism but anytime the subject rears its head I can count on LeftPeg for nonsense.

Most news outlets if not all have ‘twatter’ accounts but yea try & subvert the mainstream.

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel has heard people call Pogba racial slurs in the crowd ffs!

You dismiss the conversation of race as looking for a car colour then say it’s hard to have the discussion which it is when people don’t enter one in good faith.
Mate that time at OT wasn’t even an isolated incident. “The gorilla’s warming up” someone behind me said to his mate in the pub when Lukaku was coming on in the cup final a few years ago. “We’ve got too many blacks” heard that in the pub too. “feck off back to Africa” at French Paul Pogba. I can count at least 5 times in the last few years alone.

That’s just the clear cut racism. The unconscious bias is absolutely rife.
 

sillwuka

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I'm sure he wants to add a Champions League medal to his collection.

He also speaks fluent Spanish so Spain would be the logical choice.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Mate that time at OT wasn’t even an isolated incident. “The gorilla’s warming up” someone behind me said to his mate in the pub when Lukaku was coming on in the cup final a few years ago. “We’ve got too many blacks” heard that in the pub too. “feck off back to Africa” at French Paul Pogba. I can count at least 5 times in the last few years alone.

That’s just the clear cut racism. The unconscious bias is absolutely rife.
The only time I’ve heard the overt stuff was when we lost to PSG a few years back, I was in The 100 club & a few PSG fans had managed to get seats in there - it got a little niggly at 1-0 but when they started celebrating at 2-0 the customary ‘black b*stars’ came out & the PSG fans were escorted out by stewards. Nothing happened to the racists.

I’ve experienced glares & people stopping mid sentence when they catch eyes with me quite abit & I’m sure at some point I’ve heard something but having been going to games all over the country for 20+ years there’s a clear tone for black players imo.
 

gazbradley

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If we get a decent offer in the summer I’d be happy to sell. I like pogba and his recent form has shown he’s probably our most talented player but it feels the right time to part ways. Hopefully the board and ole are putting plans in place for his replacement, we potentially have it in dvb but you’d expect he would’ve played more if that’s the case.
Either way it has to be sorted by the summer, we don’t want Madrid or PSG haggling all window and disrupting pre season
 

Fridge chutney

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Ok, cool. I wasn’t talking about this forum. Nobody ever questioned any of their attitudes. Nobody ever talked about the clothes they wear or their Instagram, or their dancing. Maguire took less flack for getting arrested in Greece than Pogba did for dancing at his brothers wedding.

if you’re talking talking about this forum then i don’t see how you can bring up McTominay. He is praised for looking passionate & running around. The bar for him to get MOTM votes is so low it’s actually ridiculous. The caf absolutely adore McT, you would think he was prime Kante the way he’s spoken about on here.

If you think race plays zero part in Pogba’s treatment than I really don’t know what to say to you..
People are allowed to question Pogba's attitude when his agent disrupts and insults the club on the eve of our biggest match of the season, unfortunately a theme that we have had to deal with a lot from Pogba's camp during his time here. Does it go over the top? Absolutely, but unfortunately so does the abuse many of our players receive.

Racism exists and it's terrible, and I'm sure Pogba has experienced some during his time here. But I disagree with your initial assertion that the criticism he receives is because of race, and I stand by the examples I've provided. I'll leave it at that.
 

Fridge chutney

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absolutely plays a part in the way the media talk/write about him.
The media's treatment of Pogba has been absurd, I fully agree with that. The vitriol he receives from people like Souness and the tabloids, well I wouldn't be surprised if there's a grim race element there.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Racism exists and it's terrible, and I'm sure Pogba has experienced some during his time here. But I disagree with your initial assertion that the criticism he receives is because of race, and I stand by the examples I've provided. I'll leave it at that.
That wasn’t the assertion.

Nice try though.

Some of Pogba’s criticism is due to race does not equate ‘the criticism he receives is due to race’ - absolute shambolic attempt at misquoting cause you’ve go no bloody point to make.

Admit you were wrong & move on, don’t twist what @Schmeichel's Cartwheel said to fit your over sensitivity to the subject.

Absolute shithousery at its finest.
 

Fridge chutney

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That wasn’t the assertion.

Nice try though.

Some of Pogba’s criticism is due to race does not equate ‘the criticism he receives is due to race’ - absolute shambolic attempt at misquoting cause you’ve go no bloody point to make.

Admit you were wrong & move on, don’t twist what @Schmeichel's Cartwheel said to fit your over sensitivity to the subject.

Absolute shithousery at its finest.
I disagree with Schmeichel's Cartwheel, I'm sorry that caused you chagrin and I stand by everything I wrote. Wind your neck in.
 

lex talionis

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Just one poster’s opinion but I highly doubt any of the professional criticism of Pogba has been racially motivated.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I disagree with Schmeichel's Cartwheel, I'm sorry that caused you chagrin and I stand by everything I wrote. Wind your neck in.
You wade in on things way above your head, getting checked relentlessly on this forum & it’s happened again.

You’ve got het up about something that wasn’t said. Again nice try but you failed to pedal your bullsh*t on this subject this time. Shithousery 101.

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel has given his own testimony & there are quite a few links to the saga where Rashford + Pogba have been racially insulted but you disagree. . . Hmmm.

Using words like chagrin when you can’t even comprehend a simple sentence & misquote posters. . . how. . . cretinous.

Now run off with that tail firmly tucked lad
 

Fridge chutney

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You wade in on things way above your head, getting checked relentlessly on this forum & it’s happened again.

You’ve got het up about something that wasn’t said. Again nice try but you failed to pedal your bullsh*t on this subject this time. Shithousery 101.

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel has given his own testimony & there are quite a few links to the saga where Rashford + Pogba have been racially insulted but you disagree. . . Hmmm.

Using words like chagrin when you can’t even comprehend a simple sentence & misquote posters. . . how. . . cretinous.

Now run off with that tail firmly tucked lad
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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@Fridge chutney

I’m nowhere near well versed enough in internet meme culture to find something fitting but again a valiant effort at subversion. What I can do though is stay on the topic of your shithousery. . .
I’m sorry to say this because I wish it wasn’t the case, but I think his race plays a part in why he’s so hated by a portion of fans.
I disagree with your initial assertion that the criticism he receives is because of race
Throw every cliched meme you can find lass, you’ve come in misquoted @Schmeichel's Cartwheel because, as has been the case since I joined the forum, you’re well out of your depth regarding the subject at hand.
 

Fridge chutney

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@Fridge chutney

I’m nowhere near well versed enough in internet meme culture to find something fitting but again a valiant effort at subversion. What I can do though is stay on the topic of your shithousery. . .


Throw every cliched meme you can find lass, you’ve come in misquoted @Schmeichel's Cartwheel because, as has been the case since I joined the forum, you’re well out of your depth regarding the subject at hand.
Cool, you're sexist as well as someone who belligerently insults other members when they don't agree with you.

My conversation with Schmeichel's Cartwheel was perfectly reasonable and then you barged in and started personally attacking me.
 

devilish

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Consider the shit Phil jones has taken, reportedly turned down his testimonial due to perceived fan backlash

Fellaini was the point of extreme bile and ridicule

Maguire took loads of shit when he needed supporting the most

Tom Cleverly got shit for his TC23 brand

Giggs taken grief in his prime for supposedly phoning it in

People wanted Rooney out of the club when he was captain and closing in on the record

After the countless grenades weve had from Pogba and his backing cast what do you expect?
Poor Phil, Fellaini and Cleverley. Maybe we should build a monument for them at OT to commemorate and celebrate their importance in our club. We call it the pity party trinity.

Seriously these players would have gotten far more abuse at other top clubs. Actually they wouldn't play at these clubs in the first place
 

Ludens the Red

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You’re right, the majority of people irritated by Pogba dont cate about his race. I never said they did. He can be annoying, his agent can be annoying, I get it, I’ve been annoyed with him several times over the last 5 years. You didn’t actually address my point though. I said I believe race “plays a part” in the particularly nasty vitriol he gets from certain fans, and absolutely plays a part in the way the media talk/write about him. There’s undoubtedly unconscious racism in football media. Look at Jack Grealish, he’s a fecking idiot off the pitch, yet it’s constantly swept under the carpet. If Jack Grealish was black I guarantee you his treatment would be different. Look at the recent treatment difference between our own Mason Greemwood & Phil foden. Both committed the same crime, in fact Foden was worse as he had a kid & a mrs, yet who did the media come down far harder on?

Is Pogba perfect? No. Can he be frustrating? Yes. Is his agent a dick? Yes. Do I believe most fans don’t like him because he’s black? No. Do I believe he would get an easier ride if he was white? Yes, 100%. That’s all im saying here.
I did address your point, twice in fact. My point was that it isn't significant enough in the main reasons Paul Pogba gets more criticism than most other players. You're doing a lot of covering and now adding bits about unconscious racism through the media (which 100% exists and was proven in your example) but that's not what was being discussed here. Let's take a look....
.
Probably the most villified player that i've seen play at the club. Genuine hate against him has been spewed by our own fans towards him (which includes this forum) after the Mourinho fiasco where he turned the fans against him. But credit to Solskjaer who has displayed incredible man management skills to get the best out of Pogba and proved that he infact is one of his most important players and a extremely popular team mate in the dressing room.

I’m sorry to say this because I wish it wasn’t the case, but I think his race plays a part in why he’s so hated by a portion of fans. Yes he’s asked to leave, but so did Rooney. I think because he’s a confident flashy black lad who comes across a bit arrogant it really rubs some of the “top red” types the wrong way. I guarantee if he was white he would not receive the same level of hate. He’d get some, but nowhere near as much.
You're on a United forum, with mostly reasonable people. There's a lot of United fans who haven't taken to Pogba for a variety of reasons. Your first response to Adnan's post is to suggest it's racism. Now it's your prerogative to say what you want of course. But to put that out before talking about all the other very valid reasons Pogba is disliked is going to get a reaction from people.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Arguing with another member
Cool, you're sexist as well as someone who belligerently insults other members when they don't agree with you.

My conversation with Schmeichel's Cartwheel was perfectly reasonable and then you barged in and started personally attacking me.
Ah the moral high road. I like it; take it we’ve never seen Lassie, you know the dog; a species known for scampering off with tails firmly tucked, but yes let’s label me something to avoid the fact you disagree with something he never said.

A reasonable discussion is one held in good faith, the fact you’re being wilfully ignorant about what was initially stated means you’re again spouting nonsense in an attempt to backtrack & avoid.

If you can’t comprehend being challenged on your posts don’t post them on a public forum or you know find a generic meme & use that as a response till you feel better.

All this has spurned from your inability to understand @Schmeichel's Cartwheel was referring to some whilst you were offended about the whole.

Also, Do you know the origins of the term , ‘wind my neck in’ as it’s rather misogynist itself Maureen.

Anyway, glad to move on as you’ve been shown the initial post again & are still offended despite it not being about what has somehow caused you offence.
 

dev1l

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Cannot believe some people here taking the moral high ground on player abuse by fans, when this forum is rampant with abuse vs united players.

Some people should be reminded, that all Abuse is bad - racial and non-racial.

Same goes for those creating stupid conspiracy theories like united becoming brexit fc.

If there was abuse vs Pogba, the best person to help him us certainly Darren Fletcher, who himself was subject of fan abuse during the first couple of seasons with the senior team.

The thing is ongoing. Some of those calling themselves fans tend to show the nastiest side of themselves whenever things do not go in.our way.
 

He'sRaldo

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Probably the most villified player that i've seen play at the club. Genuine hate against him has been spewed by our own fans towards him (which includes this forum) after the Mourinho fiasco where he turned the fans against him. But credit to Solskjaer who has displayed incredible man management skills to get the best out of Pogba and proved that he infact is one of his most important players and a extremely popular team mate in the dressing room.
The response to him being injured last season was crazy.

Can't remember that level of hate towards a player for simply being injured, and of course the media did all it could to stoke the flames.

It was a poor showing from the fans, for sure.
 

Fridge chutney

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Ah the moral high road. I like it; take it we’ve never seen Lassie, you know the dog; a species known for scampering off with tails firmly tucked, but yes let’s label me something to avoid the fact you disagree with something he never said.

A reasonable discussion is one held in good faith, the fact you’re being wilfully ignorant about what was initially stated means you’re again spouting nonsense in an attempt to backtrack & avoid.

If you can’t comprehend being challenged on your posts don’t post them on a public forum or you know find a generic meme & use that as a response till you feel better.

All this has spurned from your inability to understand @Schmeichel's Cartwheel was referring to some whilst you were offended about the whole.

Also, Do you know the origins of the term , ‘wind my neck in’ as it’s rather misogynist itself Maureen.

Anyway, glad to move on as you’ve been shown the initial post again & are still offended despite it not being about what has somehow caused you offence.
:lol: pot, kettle and all that. I'm not engaging with you because you rely on ad hominen attacks to drive forward whatever point it is you are trying to make, and I refuse to get sucked in any further.
 

Ludens the Red

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Good post.

Making several reasoned points but you’ve not boldened the part where @Schmeichel's Cartwheel says he’s been in the ground & heard people call Pogba ‘n*gag’ which is nothing to do with the ‘non-black things’ you’ve tried to dismiss.

Let’s also not forget when Pogba & Rashford were racially targeted by ‘United fans’ online.

As I say you make some good points throughout your post but you’re rather ignoring the fact that both of us have only stated race plays a role in some, again not all but some, of the way he is targeted & discussed.

As far as the things we state not being ‘black things’ you’re correct so why is he critiqued for them when a white player getting hair highlights isn’t an issue or videos on Social Media of them at home with family aren’t critiqued. You’re actually proving the point, he’s criticised for things everyone does.

You can’t even buy a house as a black footballer in this country but mention race on the Caf & people will do anything to undermine the discussion.

Disagreement on this forum isn’t biting someone’s head off but it’s rather clear that the second a forum member raises the issue of race a rather loud part of the forum are quick to shut the notion down in it’s entirety which says a lot about the Caf imo.

Racism isn’t simply throwing bananas on the pitch & it’s an insult to the minorities that post on this forum to act as if it has to be.

No one in this thread has said all United fans are racist, you have even accepted the likelihood that a certain number of United fans may be but you’ve written War & peace to undermine a rather tame statement made focusing on the parts you deem questionable rather than the whole statement.

To reiterate for the sensitive souls in the Caf; you can dislike Pogba & not be racially motivated. All that was stated is that during his time at United it’s rather undeniable that race has played a role in the coverage & certain fans perceptions.
I haven't ignored anything, I twice state there are racist United fans out there, the shouts he's heard at grounds prove that and it should be mentioned Twitter. Myself and another poster, pointed out that there are going to be racist fans out there but that we believe the majority of criticism Pogba receives is not race based. And I know the OP didn't suggest it was every United fan but he came in a thread about Pogba. He responded to a post about the criticism Pogba receives being perceived to be the worse and his first response as to why it was more than others was to suggest that it was because of race. However it's later dressed up, or he wants to half back track this is going to get people talking. Essentially the only response to that comment, judging by the comments (see below) that have followed from yourself and him, would have been a full nod in agreement.

Mate give up.

I’ve posted a link to an article regarding Rashford & Pogba’s racial abuse by supporters whilst you’ve highlighted being in the stadium when a racial slur has been aimed in his direction.

Yet the precious Caf contingent see the word racism & want to dismiss it entirely.

You haven’t said the Caf is racist nor have you called all criticism of the player racist. You’ve drawn on personal experience & been backed up by multiple articles that support your initial statement.

Anybody speaking for a fanbase that numbers far into the millions as wholly one thing or another is a cretin, you haven’t done that but a number of posters have.

Your points on McT & Maguire are bang on as well.
There was literally just the one person who attempted to dismiss it entirely but most others have simply put forward an argument that the significant Pogba dislike @Schmeichel's Cartwheel sees, is for one not predominantly race based and two, incorrect because they believe other players are more subject to abuse. That is quite debateable and would depend on what you're exposed to more or what threads you visit more. The most abuse (unfair and other) I've come across AND lack of support for one player is Harry Maguire. But again that's just my opinion.

I think you've kind of decided before the discussion has really taken off that people are dismissing racism and that's not what's happened. I'd presume probably because there's been other threads with a similar topic in the past and some members have responded in such a way. Well actually I know it is because I've seen it and in those discussions you would have a very good point but in this instance we are talking specifically about Pogba and United fans.

We've gone from just talking about purely United fans and Pogba to you two now talking about black players in general and the media coverage they receive. That's actually a whole other discussion and I think you two (more so Schmeichel) trying to subsequently throw that into the mix here isn't really fair.
For one I am 100% in agreement that in general the media coverage black players receive has agendas, but I do not believe that race plays a significant in the criticism Pogba receives from purely United fans. Let's stick to one debate here.
 
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You forgot the sh*t Luke Chadwick got.

But I don’t get the relevance.

Another poster wades in to a discussion they’re woefully unprepared for.

As you are hard of reading. Does criticism of Pogba equate to racism? No. Has Pogba deserved criticism over his tenure? Hell yes!

All @Schmeichel's Cartwheel did was give his own example of hearing a racial slur & has since been backed by articles that discuss the racial abuse Pogba & other black players have received from United fans.

Jog on with your equivocation, no one said white players don’t receive abuse.


I was waiting for you to wade in again with your bullsh*t.

Guess Marcus was after a Red Audi in his twitter comments

Read what’s written. No one has said all criticism is racism but anytime the subject rears its head I can count on LeftPeg for nonsense.

Most news outlets if not all have ‘twatter’ accounts but yea try & subvert the mainstream.

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel has heard people call Pogba racial slurs in the crowd ffs!

You dismiss the conversation of race as looking for a car colour then say it’s hard to have the discussion which it is when people don’t enter one in good faith.
I haven’t said there isint racism. I haven’t dismissed that there will be racism Levied at Pogba, and many of our players.

but is Pogba criticised more because of his race? I don’t think so.

I even said it’s difficult to have a conversation about race. Hey, look who comes in and calls my opinion BULLSHIT.

ive also no idea what you mean by “subverting the mainstream” - honestly no idea.

having now read the rest of the replies to this thread. I don’t want to engage with you. Perhaps it’s because I’m out of my depth!
 
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Random Task

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You forgot the sh*t Luke Chadwick got.

But I don’t get the relevance.

Another poster wades in to a discussion they’re woefully unprepared for.

As you are hard of reading. Does criticism of Pogba equate to racism? No. Has Pogba deserved criticism over his tenure? Hell yes!

All @Schmeichel's Cartwheel did was give his own example of hearing a racial slur & has since been backed by articles that discuss the racial abuse Pogba & other black players have received from United fans.

Jog on with your equivocation, no one said white players don’t receive abuse.


I was waiting for you to wade in again with your bullsh*t.

Guess Marcus was after a Red Audi in his twitter comments

Read what’s written. No one has said all criticism is racism but anytime the subject rears its head I can count on LeftPeg for nonsense.

Most news outlets if not all have ‘twatter’ accounts but yea try & subvert the mainstream.

@Schmeichel's Cartwheel has heard people call Pogba racial slurs in the crowd ffs!

You dismiss the conversation of race as looking for a car colour then say it’s hard to have the discussion which it is when people don’t enter one in good faith.
Shameful as they are, these are all isolated incidents, none of which are related to Paul Pogba as an individual.

No one is disputing the existence of racism, I assure you, only that it does not exist on this forum. If that ceases to be the case, then I'm sure it will be dealt with swiftly by the mods.

Also, I feel it's fair to point out that anyone choosing to devalue Pogba based on his skin colour isn't worth listening to. Their opinions are not relevant in any way.
 

Fergie 7ime

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That wasn’t the assertion.

Nice try though.

Some of Pogba’s criticism is due to race does not equate ‘the criticism he receives is due to race’ - absolute shambolic attempt at misquoting cause you’ve go no bloody point to make.

Admit you were wrong & move on, don’t twist what @Schmeichel's Cartwheel said to fit your over sensitivity to the subject.

Absolute shithousery at its finest.
Yes, that’s two totally different things :lol:
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I haven't ignored anything, I twice state there are racist United fans out there, the shouts he's heard at grounds prove that and it should be mentioned Twitter. Myself and another poster, pointed out that there are going to be racist fans out there but that we believe the majority of criticism Pogba receives is not race based. And I know the OP didn't suggest it was every United fan but he came in a thread about Pogba. He responded to a post about the criticism Pogba receives being perceived to be the worse and his first response as to why it was more than others was to suggest that it was because of race. However it's later dressed up, or he wants to half back track this is going to get people talking. Essentially the only response to that comment, judging by the comments (see below) that have followed from yourself and him, would have been a full nod in agreement.
Below is the initial post from @Schmeichel's Cartwheel , he says ‘race plays a part’; he doesn’t say that racism is the sole/main etc. he just acknowledges that race in some instances is a driving factor. . .

I’m sorry to say this because I wish it wasn’t the case, but I think his race plays a part in why he’s so hated by a portion of fans.
I’m not sure what you think he needs to backtrack from.

He said race is a factor & was jumped on by fellow posters. At no point did he say it was the sole factor or the main factor, he simply mentioned race & I knew the outpouring of tone deaf dismissal was incoming.

The comment really isn’t controversial.
There was literally just the one person who attempted to dismiss it entirely but most others have simply put forward an argument that the significant Pogba dislike @Schmeichel's Cartwheel sees, is for one not predominantly race based and two, incorrect because they believe other players are more subject to abuse. That is quite debateable and would depend on what you're exposed to more or what threads you visit more. The most abuse (unfair and other) I've come across AND lack of support for one player is Harry Maguire. But again that's just my opinion.
I’m struggling to find the relevance of the above. I also think just because you’re in favour of this echo chamber it’s rather distasteful to say people are simply stating other players get more abuse. See below for immediate responses to the post.

Absolutely not the case. Race has nothing to do with it.
Shameful, lazy post.
jesus. You come out with some utter crap.
When has anyone said this criticism is predominantly due to race? It’s again another thing that happens on here far too often when the subject arises; no one has said what you claim is being argued against.

I think you've kind of decided before the discussion has really taken off that people are dismissing racism and that's not what's happened. I'd presume probably because there's been other threads with a similar topic in the past and some members have responded in such a way. Well actually I know it is because I've seen it and in those discussions you would have a very good point but in this instance we are talking specifically about Pogba and United fans.
Two people can read the same thing differently & it’s always shown in these threads.

You go from telling me how I think to speaking for the United fanbase as a whole despite proof in the many links provided of United fans racially abusing Pogba & @Schmeichel's Cartwheel ’s first hand experiences.

Return to the actual first statement made on the issue then reflect on the arguments made against it.

We’ve got proof of racism towards Pogba from United fans, all that was said was it plays some part. It’s not about having a good point in this instance when you’ve quite obviously missed the initial point entirely.

It didn’t take much to see that it ‘literally isn’t one’ person dismissing his comments so I can’t even give that part more time.
We've gone from just talking about purely United fans and Pogba to you two now talking about black players in general and the media coverage they receive. That's actually a whole other discussion and I think you two (more so Schmeichel) trying to subsequently throw that into the mix here isn't really fair.
For one I am 100% in agreement that in general the media coverage black players receive has agendas, but I do not believe that race plays a significant in the criticism Pogba receives from purely United fans. Let's stick to one debate here.
I posted links to the Pogba + Rashford online insults news story, have given an example of racism I’ve heard in the stands, also linked to a news article regarding the differences in coverage between races & @Schmeichel's Cartwheel has given examples of racism at games, 2 or 3 [can’t remember] in relation to Pogba.

We’ve haven’t gone from one thing to another at all but I’m used to being told what to say in these debates on here; the goalposts are ever changing.

Multiple instances of racism involving Pogba cited but as others were mentioned let’s dismiss them all. . .

Anyway, I’ve been given a warning for some reason or other so I’m hesitant to delve further, someone got upset.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Shameful as they are, these are all isolated incidents, none of which are related to Paul Pogba as an individual.

No one is disputing the existence of racism, I assure you, only that it does not exist on this forum. If that ceases to be the case, then I'm sure it will be dealt with swiftly by the mods.

Also, I feel it's fair to point out that anyone choosing to devalue Pogba based on his skin colour isn't worth listening to. Their opinions are not relevant in any way.
I’ve spent more than enough time in the General Discussion forum to assert that this isn’t true but racism is only calling someone a n*gger according to some on here.
 

RedRonaldo

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Surely PSG would be a good option for Pogba, as well as Pogba being a good option for PSG.

Could create a very balanced team that seems to suit Poch’s preferences on paper.

Marquinhos
Veratti Pogba
Di Maria Mbappe Neymar​

(Mainly pushing the oil money angle to try and maximise the fee we get)
I've read before Messi was the player Pogba admire most. Given that there's chance of PSG signing Messi, it may make perfect sense for Pogba to go there too.
 

Ludens the Red

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Below is the initial post from @Schmeichel's Cartwheel , he says ‘race plays a part’; he doesn’t say that racism is the sole/main etc. he just acknowledges that race in some instances is a driving factor. . .



I’m not sure what you think he needs to backtrack from.

He said race is a factor & was jumped on by fellow posters. At no point did he say it was the sole factor or the main factor, he simply mentioned race & I knew the outpouring of tone deaf dismissal was incoming.

The comment really isn’t controversial.
Going over old ground here but the factor here is that his initial and first response was to suggest race plays a part. Whether he said 'mostly' 'main' 'some' in this context doesn't matter as much. It's the fact that's the first thing he went to, that it was race. I don't know what other response you expect people to have other than like I said nodding in agreement to be satisfied that the response isn't 'tone deaf dismissal'. There were at least FOUR posts of people listing reasons why Pogba may get more flak than others. Some of which were greeted with an unwarranted negative response by yourself.
My point about backtracking is that, he made the comment he made and then when people disagreed he then began saying things like "I didn't mean everyone" and then started talking about other black players and social media. I think this was done in an attempt to take the debate to a greater reach than purely Pogba and United fans.

I’m struggling to find the relevance of the above. I also think just because you’re in favour of this echo chamber it’s rather distasteful to say people are simply stating other players get more abuse. See below for immediate responses to the post.





When has anyone said this criticism is predominantly due to race? It’s again another thing that happens on here far too often when the subject arises; no one has said what you claim is being argued against.
Again, if his first response to the post he quoted is to mention race than the implication would be that it's a significant factor otherwise why would he mention it. That is exactly why the response from people saying otherwise had happened.

Two people can read the same thing differently & it’s always shown in these threads.

You go from telling me how I think to speaking for the United fanbase as a whole despite proof in the many links provided of United fans racially abusing Pogba & @Schmeichel's Cartwheel ’s first hand experiences.

Return to the actual first statement made on the issue then reflect on the arguments made against it.

We’ve got proof of racism towards Pogba from United fans, all that was said was it plays some part. It’s not about having a good point in this instance when you’ve quite obviously missed the initial point entirely.

It didn’t take much to see that it ‘literally isn’t one’ person dismissing his comments so I can’t even give that part more time.
I posted links to the Pogba + Rashford online insults news story, have given an example of racism I’ve heard in the stands, also linked to a news article regarding the differences in coverage between races & @Schmeichel's Cartwheel has given examples of racism at games, 2 or 3 [can’t remember] in relation to Pogba.

We’ve haven’t gone from one thing to another at all but I’m used to being told what to say in these debates on here; the goalposts are ever changing.

Multiple instances of racism involving Pogba cited but as others were mentioned let’s dismiss them all. . .
Again, nobody is dismissing anything, you keep saying this but the people who've taken the time to write more than one line in response to you have acknowledged and spoken about racist abuse that Pogba and other black players do indeed receive. This is what I mean by you've basically decided where this discussion is going/gone before we've even got there and you seem intent on sticking by your blanket statements.

Again I will say it, if someone responds to a post about a perceived greater velocity of criticism Pogba receives by FIRST before anything else mentioning its race related people are going to retort and argue against it. It's so obvious.

As for the changing of goalposts, like I said the Pogba/United fans debate is completely separate to the media and the coverage of black players. As I said it was more so from Schmeichel who began posting and talking about things outside of United fans and Pogba. You posted a link on the Sterling Daily Mail fiasco which again I would say is a separate discussion to the one being had about Pogba. Why I mention this is because there is a massive difference and I think when you put the two together it's almost an attempt to try and make those with an opposing view come to agreement with you, or worse, look bad. I wont suggest that's been a deliberate attempt by yourself but it could be perceived that way.

Anyway, I’ve been given a warning for some reason or other so I’m hesitant to delve further, someone got upset.
You probably got a warning because you responded to people in an unwarranted argumentative manor, made several blanket statements regarding cafe posters and their response to racial debates. All of which I don't think is at all justifiable in this thread. I think you've kind of made a mountain out of a molehill.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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@Leroy The Red

I saw your post started with going over old ground & I couldn’t agree more. I also saw more paragraphs than I care to dissect. We’re both hitting the same points each post & we’re getting nowhere slowly. We’ve gone from ‘literally one’ to ‘those that respond more than one line’ yet the goalposts apparently remain the same. . .

I’d say the below statement is rather insulting but then it doesn’t reflect the echo chamber that is the Utopia of RedCafe. . .

jesus. You come out with some utter crap.
Maybe I’ll start using the report button when my memes don’t hit.

But lesson learnt, on RaceCaf you must be sure to wait for racisms spot in the queue as apparently him saying it first was the issue after all. . .

Do have a blessed evening.
 

Zlatattack

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He wants to go to RM. He considers it the biggest stage. They won't go through multiple seasons not challenging for the title.
 

Bondi77

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I am sure most footballers would like to play for Madrid but from what I have seen Madrid only take the best performers from the English game and if that trend continues the only midfielders I can see going is De Bruyne or possibly Grealish.
 

lsd

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I have no doubt he loves the club and would stay if he thought we'd would be challenging for the top honors however he has taken some horrible abuse from too many of the club's own fans and that is the reason he will leave.

I doubt he cares less about how the media talks about him but it has to grate on him people who should have his back far to often join the sniping at him.

You can see it on here as well every time the media say something negative countless threads spring up believing them and just spewing complete hate on him

I certainly can't blame him for leaving but hope he can leave having led us back to glory
 
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@Leroy The Red

I saw your post started with going over old ground & I couldn’t agree more. I also saw more paragraphs than I care to dissect. We’re both hitting the same points each post & we’re getting nowhere slowly. We’ve gone from ‘literally one’ to ‘those that respond more than one line’ yet the goalposts apparently remain the same. . .

I’d say the below statement is rather insulting but then it doesn’t reflect the echo chamber that is the Utopia of RedCafe. . .



Maybe I’ll start using the report button when my memes don’t hit.

But lesson learnt, on RaceCaf you must be sure to wait for racisms spot in the queue as apparently him saying it first was the issue after all. . .

Do have a blessed evening.
crack on report me.

perhaps we can then get the thread back on topic and move on. Seems you’ve spent enough time typing in here today. I have