I apologise Ole!

glazed

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Great post.
Is it though? It seems all those criticisms were valid. You can argue that he has now addressed them all but that is pretty optimistic tbh, and at the very least something that we are not yet in a position to judge and won't be till the end of the season.
 

iato89

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I'm surprised there are not more apologies. I guess it's tough to admit you were wrong.
Season still not over, everything is up in the air, I for one am still not 100% convinced but I am not 100% out either...I'm still 50-50 and waiting for what might happen.
 

iato89

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That's utter nonsense.

There were fans who knew exactly what Ole was doing to reestablish our club as top dogs. We weren't impatient and we weren't giving out about bad results when they came.

We knew that Ole was getting rid of the mess of a squad we had established under LvG and Mouirnho. We knew he was building for the future.

Slagging Ole and arguing that he was bad for the first 18-months and is only becoming good now aren't warranted. All that does is prove that some folk didn't have the foresight and footballing knowledge to see what Ole was doing.

It's that simple.

I, personally, felt it was cringeworthy when I read United fans calling for Solskjaer's head at any time over the past two years. It was like they knew nothing about Manchester United's history. As if they didn't know for a fact that Busby took six years to win anything. Or that Fergie took six years to win anything.

If you don't have the patience to support Ole and see his whole long-term plan through to fruition then I'm afraid you have chosen the wrong club to support.
Same can be said for Moyes, LVG, Jose and any pre Fergie managers that were sacked. It is all about opinion and no one here is a future teller, many that believed in Ole (although till now we have won nothing) might have been int he pro camp of a manager that failed. Football knowledge has nothing to do with this becaus this so called knowledge you are talking about was flawed when guys backed other managers that failed.
 

beycont

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I think that was a fairly accurate depiction. Defense has improved somewhat and Matic has been dropped in favour of McT and Fred. That has made a difference to results but the underlying problem remains - no strategy except reliance on Bruno being brilliant.
I disagree.

Fernandes' brilliance does not exist in a vacuum, he is allowed to thrive and create in the context of the team's tactics and strategy. You could be the best player in the world but without the right supporting cast and team set up, any player would struggle. As of now not all the pieces are in place but the strategy and gameplan are clear IMO.
 

alexthelion

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Ole never lost the dressing room or the match day fans. He had a mix of twitter morons and pundits giving him shit every single day, but unless you lose the hardcores and the players, you will always stick to your gameplan. He's done unbelievably well this last year. Built a great team, got rid of the dead wood and got the players who were hear before playing well. It looked an impossible job when he showed up, but he's doing fantastic.
So much this.

It was never going to be a quick job, the club virtually needed to be rebuilt from the ground up. I'm glad he's finally getting a bit of success on the field, long may it continue.
 
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Jaqen H'ghar

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Ole was never as bad as people made out - just not especially good either. Nor is he as good as the Top Red Brigade now wants to claim. But he is much more entertaining to watch than his three predecessors and he's now getting good performances out of some already very good players.

The problem then and now is the club structure. And in a modern success hungry club structure, there would have been no Ole. Ole is the pimple on Joel Glazer's wrinkly butt.
You started decently there, but ended terribly.

I agree regarding the main problem being the owners and structure, but Ole deserves all the plaudits for being able to work in that enviroment and make the best of it.

You acknowledge he is playing entertaining football, getting good performances out of the players (and results, which you didn't mention) then come up with a statement like the bolded. Not only is it unwarranted, wrong and a disgusting thing to say, it actually contradicts the points you made yourself.

Terrible post, to be honest.
 

justsomebloke

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Ole was never as bad as people made out - just not especially good either. Nor is he as good as the Top Red Brigade now wants to claim. But he is much more entertaining to watch than his three predecessors and he's now getting good performances out of some already very good players.

The problem then and now is the club structure. And in a modern success hungry club structure, there would have been no Ole. Ole is the pimple on Joel Glazer's wrinkly butt.
In other words, you're more or less prepared to be entertained while it lasts, but not to give any credit?
 

ReddBalls

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Season still not over, everything is up in the air, I for one am still not 100% convinced but I am not 100% out either...I'm still 50-50 and waiting for what might happen.
Only betting for the sure thing, eh? If United win the title this year, it''s far ahead of schedule. United were in no better place when Ole took over than Liverpool were when Klopp arrived. It took Herr Klopp four years to win anything.
 

GoldTrafford99

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Same can be said for Moyes, LVG, Jose and any pre Fergie managers that were sacked. It is all about opinion and no one here is a future teller, many that believed in Ole (although till now we have won nothing) might have been int he pro camp of a manager that failed. Football knowledge has nothing to do with this becaus this so called knowledge you are talking about was flawed when guys backed other managers that failed.
Absolutely not true.

There are folk who could see what Ole was doing behind the scenes. The fact that he has signed so many academy players who won't see first-team action for at least 2-3 years from now... the fact that he re-juggled the club structure from the academy to the first team... the fact that he was buying young and hungry players for the first team who won't hit peak for 4-5 years... the fact that he assembled a young and hungry-with-something-to-prove coaching staff... the fact that when he was interviewed by Woodward for the job he laid out a 4-5 year plan to get us back to the top.

All a lot of fans see is the last result and the next game. They don't have the patience or football insight or knowledge to look 4-5 years ahead. Some fans do have that insight. Some fans simply don't.

Depends on what you're looking out for when you decide to support a football club; though I would question anyone who chooses to support Manchester United and doesn't have the patience to see a manager evolve a team over 5-6 years until its fully under his identity (seeing as that is the ONLY WAY we have ever won titles at our football club in our entire history). I've said it a million times: Those calling for Ole's head over the past year DEFINITELY would have sacked Matt Busby in 1952. And they DEFINITELY would have sacked Alex Ferguson in 1989. It's that simple.

You can sum up Ole's reign this way: Any 'fan' who has called for Ole's head over the past two years has a very narrow-minded view of football and had ZERO insight into what was going on behind the scenes - all they saw was the last result and the next game. They also have zero insight into the history of this football club and how both of our runs of success arrived through long-term planning, not quick fixes.

Where in total contrast, those who are happy to stick with Ole's long-term approach whether he finished 3rd or 7th last season simply have much more football insight and much more understanding of what and who our football club is.
 
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Ludens the Red

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That's utter nonsense.

There were fans who knew exactly what Ole was doing to reestablish our club as top dogs. We weren't impatient and we weren't giving out about bad results when they came.

We knew that Ole was getting rid of the mess of a squad we had established under LvG and Mouirnho. We knew he was building for the future.

Slagging Ole and arguing that he was bad for the first 18-months and is only becoming good now aren't warranted. All that does is prove that some folk didn't have the foresight and footballing knowledge to see what Ole was doing.

It's that simple.

I, personally, felt it was cringeworthy when I read United fans calling for Solskjaer's head at any time over the past two years. It was like they knew nothing about Manchester United's history. As if they didn't know for a fact that Busby took six years to win anything. Or that Fergie took six years to win anything.

If you don't have the patience to support Ole and see his whole long-term plan through to fruition then I'm afraid you have chosen the wrong club to support.
This is very simple:

Anybody who couldn't see what Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was doing as soon as he came into our football club is obviously numb to how Manchester United have ever won major titles through our entire 140-year existence.

We have had two periods of dominance in our entire 140-year history.

Both were planned and plotted for over a long period of time.

Busby rebuilt the club and took six years to win a major trophy.

Ferguson rebuilt the club and took six years to win a major trophy.

Solskajer is currently rebuilding our club.

It's clear.

It's obvious.

If you don't see this and you consider yourself a Manchester United fan; you might need to read up on some of the club you support's history.
Christ, so much obnoxiousness, conjecture and recycling of past events.

You may wanna look back at the changes Louis van Gaal made when he was here with first team training and the academy when he arrived. He brought in people who knew the club to work with him.
He handed debuts to over a dozen youngsters, many local lads, one of those being Marcus Rashford.

Jose Mourinho brought in Michael Carrick, he was also present when United signed the following players - Lukaku, Fred, Lindelof, Dalot, Pogba, Baily, all under 24 when we signed them. He also gave McTominay his debut. Five of these players have played a huge part in us being top.

Very easy to come out with all this stuff about how you and others were so wise to see this deep behind the scenes, promoting youth stuff that’s supposedly only going on now as if van Gaal and Mourinho were comedy managers and didn’t know anything .
You’re also talking in absolutes when we’ve not actually won anything yet.
Need I remind you too that Mourinho won trophies and had us in the top two in his first two seasons here. None of our managers have come in without a plan except Moyes.

Coming out with these smug, self satisfying repackaged speeches on the ‘United way’ is so cringe.

I mean I’m glad Mourinho and van Gaal aren’t our managers anymore but honestly spare us the holier than thou bs.
And if that’s important at the very least wait until we actually fecking win something before you go around telling everyone ‘I told you so’.
 

GoldTrafford99

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Christ, so much obnoxiousness, conjecture and recycling of past events.

You may wanna look back at the changes Louis van Gaal made when he was here with first team training and the academy when he arrived. He brought in people who knew the club to work with him.
He handed debuts to over a dozen youngsters, many local lads, one of those being Marcus Rashford.

Jose Mourinho brought in Michael Carrick, he was also present when United signed the following players - Lukaku, Fred, Lindelof, Dalot, Pogba, Baily, all under 24 when we signed them. He also gave McTominay his debut. Five of these players have played a huge part in us being top.

Very easy to come out with all this stuff about how you and others were so wise to see this deep behind the scenes, promoting youth stuff that’s supposedly only going on now as if van Gaal and Mourinho were comedy managers and didn’t know anything .
You’re also talking in absolutes when we’ve not actually won anything yet.
Need I remind you too that Mourinho won trophies and had us in the top two in his first two seasons here. None of our managers have come in without a plan except Moyes.

Coming out with these smug, self satisfying repackaged speeches on the ‘United way’ is so cringe.

I mean I’m glad Mourinho and van Gaal aren’t our managers anymore but honestly spare us the holier than thou bs.
And if that’s important at the very least wait until we actually fecking win something before you go around telling everyone ‘I told you so’.

Talk about missing the actual point being made. Christ.
 

SirScholes

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Only betting for the sure thing, eh? If United win the title this year, it''s far ahead of schedule. United were in no better place when Ole took over than Liverpool were when Klopp arrived. It took Herr Klopp four years to win anything.
I think that’s his point, ole hasn’t won anything yet so he is reserving judgement
 

justsomebloke

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Maybe there's not a lot more to be gained from this thread. Maybe some people have reflected that it's good to look at the wider picture and question some assumptions that maybe were over-hasty, and will remember this the next time we hit a bump. Maybe some other people have reflected that not everyone who takes a negative view are incapable of adjustment, or unwilling to adjust. Further mutual recriminations seem to me unlikely to be helpful.
 

Swiss_Red89

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I always wanted him to do well as i really like him. He is such a positive nature and such a likeable character. And he is a United legend, even though i was a bit to young to really experience his biggest moments for us as a player.

But I never had the feeling he is really good enough for the job United. I thought he lacks the tactical nose required for the task. I’m so happy that I am proven wrong. Even though I don’t think he will ever be a tactical genius, he has an acceptable standard and will get better with experience. And he definitely knows how to build a squad with the right characters.

The journey with him is so exciting and since the start every win feels so good under him. In some way for me better than under Mourinho for example. Long may his reign at United continue!
 

fishfingers15

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YESHHHHH, We'll GOOO for it.
I think that was a fairly accurate depiction. Defense has improved somewhat and Matic has been dropped in favour of McT and Fred. That has made a difference to results but the underlying problem remains - no strategy except reliance on Bruno being brilliant.
Were you dropped on your head when you was a baby?
 

fishfingers15

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Moyes had to show the world that he was no puppet to Fergie. Got rid of entire backroom staff and did some pretty weird things. Van Gaal was always set in stone about his philosophy. He wanted United to change to accept him. Mou turned out to the dick that Chelsea and madrid fans said he would.

OGS is the first manager after Fergie to put the club first in all things. That shows in all things he does. Signing players with a long term vision, not having to throw the club and players under the bus to validate himself, fostering a level of trust between his players that has been lacking for a long time, not trying to divide the fanbase by leaking information through press friends etc. He is not a Guardiola, Klopp or a Bielsa but neither was Fergie.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion but the vitriol thrown at him here by a vocal minority (or should I say majority?) has been shameful. I regularly chat with like minded utd fans on the phone and there were a few lads who didn't trust ogs enough to be the coach but I felt they never went overboard with the abuse as they respected a club legend while trying to be critical of some of his decisions. Frankly, some of the abuse crew had to everything to suit their agenda that OGS was just an overpaid pe teacher. That was gross.
 

Bilbo

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It really is as simple as this:

There were fans on this forum that were backing Ole all the way not because we felt that he was a guarantee of success. Even now that really isn't the case. It was merely a case of having the patience to allow all of this to play out, because to some it was clear just how bad a state the squad was in. The support and the patience was borne out of a belief that Ole was doing all of the right things to address those issues, coupled with the fact that we were seeing enough to suggest that he was also a pretty decent tactician that was making the most of the resources available to him. It was obvious that it wasn't going to be an overnight fix. It had to happen in layers, and now we are starting to see the fruits of that.

People either didn't see this, were not willing to be patient enough, or over time developed an agenda against Ole. To those people, he wasn't good enough, never would be, and that was all there was to it. Most of the friction on this forum came from that, and @GoldTrafford99 was right. It was all short term thinking from so many. A meltdown after every result and every performance that wasn't deemed to be good enough, and this was always a deeply unfair & unrealistic position to take.

Those posters that are now coming out with this line - 'I criticised him all the way until results got better, and now I'm backing him' - and thinking that they got it right, well......sorry but you didn't! They haven't suddenly taking a leap forward in ability as a management team. I doubt the coaching, or the man-management, or the philosophy have changed all that much. It always take time and trust and good decision making to build a team. What we have now is a result of two years of hard work & strong management
 

beycont

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I always wanted him to do well as i really like him. He is such a positive nature and such a likeable character. And he is a United legend, even though i was a bit to young to really experience his biggest moments for us as a player.

But I never had the feeling he is really good enough for the job United. I thought he lacks the tactical nose required for the task. I’m so happy that I am proven wrong. Even though I don’t think he will ever be a tactical genius, he has an acceptable standard and will get better with experience. And he definitely knows how to build a squad with the right characters.

The journey with him is so exciting and since the start every win feels so good under him. In some way for me better than under Mourinho for example. Long may his reign at United continue!
Why not? Did he get to the top of the table by chance?
 

romufc

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It really is as simple as this:

There were fans on this forum that were backing Ole all the way not because we felt that he was a guarantee of success. Even now that really isn't the case. It was merely a case of having the patience to allow all of this to play out, because to some it was clear just how bad a state the squad was in. The support and the patience was borne out of a belief that Ole was doing all of the right things to address those issues, coupled with the fact that we were seeing enough to suggest that he was also a pretty decent tactician that was making the most of the resources available to him. It was obvious that it wasn't going to be an overnight fix. It had to happen in layers, and now we are starting to see the fruits of that.

People either didn't see this, were not willing to be patient enough, or over time developed an agenda against Ole. To those people, he wasn't good enough, never would be, and that was all there was to it. Most of the friction on this forum came from that, and @GoldTrafford99 was right. It was all short term thinking from so many. A meltdown after every result and every performance that wasn't deemed to be good enough, and this was always a deeply unfair & unrealistic position to take.

Those posters that are now coming out with this line - 'I criticised him all the way until results got better, and now I'm backing him' - and thinking that they got it right, well......sorry but you didn't! They haven't suddenly taking a leap forward in ability as a management team. I doubt the coaching, or the man-management, or the philosophy have changed all that much. It always take time and trust and good decision making to build a team. What we have now is a result of two years of hard work & strong management
I agree with this. Alot of fans were quick to criticise Ole and still are using every excuse in the book to downplay his tenure.

Whatever we think of Maguire, AWB, James, Bruno, Cavani, Telles, he has brought in the right players. Before Ole, all of our signings were a flop. He not only brought good players, they are good characters in the team. You have seen it from when we had bad patches, bad results, none of the players turned against him, quite the opposite of Chelsea, change the manager to suit the players bought.

These players bought into the vision, there was progress. His first job was to get rid of the deadwood and improve the dressing room, did that. This season he added to his squad, didnt cry because he didn't get his signings. I was there saying he needs to call the board out.. how wrong I was.

We finished 3rd when no one thought we would, we got to semi finals of 3 competitions with a pretty average squad for most of the season. The ones with the agenda see it differently, he only got 3rd cause of injuries and covid. He can't get past a semi final. I see it as growth and progress.

Last season we couldn't win a game after going a goal down, we have done that in 7 away games this season.

There was a moment after one of the defeats earlier this season, Bruno tweeted, trust the process. When you have a big player who wants to win trophies behind the manager, he must be doing something right no?
 

Fox outside the box

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Why the need for an apology? Football changes every week. Performances fluctuate, even more so this season. Yes, we're doing well in the league at the current moment and for that Ole deserves credit but I think that alone provides little (if any basis) as to whether "he has it in him" to be United's manager. We're approaching the half-way point of the league with multiple cups to still play for.

Surely our assessment of Ole's performance shouldn't be as prescriptive. I mean there are aspects of Ole's management that are positive just as there are elements that remain curiously suspect.

The signs are looking good, but time will tell if we get back to our glory days.
It does if you only really consider what's immediately in front of you.

I think what has been particularly clear about Ole's tenure is that people don't base what they are saying on much more than just 'feelings'. It's been pretty clear for a while now (I would argue since he arrived tbf) and there has been a clear direction he's been working towards.

Taking things week to week isn't a feasible way to gauge anything and I've never understood people who can switch between 'sack or back' multiple times.

At the very least I've always been confident that he would steady the ship, clear the deadwood and leave a solid foundation for the next manager and that would have been a respectable job to do. As time has gone on though its clear that the players have bought into him, that he's willing to let go of players who aren't up to it and has a positive transfer strategy that has seen us move away from signing people simply because they are available or a big name and towards building a squad of ambitious, driven, younger players that could see us at least competing again for years to come.

Too many people seem to really struggle with seeing the bigger picture, understanding that change doesn't happen overnight and can't seem to assess things holistically. A lot of that is probably out of ignorance in fairness, we only understand a fraction of what goes on and let's be honest, I doubt many at all really understand the workings and day to day activity that goes on so we're on the back foot immediately because we're discussing things we don't really know that much about. A lot of opinion is formed based on what an article says or what the general online opinion is rather than actual experience and understanding of the subject.

Nothing wrong with discussing it but I do wish fans in general would be a touch more humble when they do.
 

bosnian_red

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Things were looking really grim after that Istanbul game where I lost hope. Was a bad run and starting to look like we just can't create or score goals against any bottom half side and we're easy to play against. Picked up right after that though, but I do think that was his toughest period where the most doubt crept in. Yes we got knocked out of the CL after, but that run with bad results against Chelsea, arsenal and Istanbul was the most at fault. Didn't have a problem with anything last season. Very circumstantial, lingard or Pereira pretty much started in Ole's most important attacking position!
 

GoldTrafford99

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It really is as simple as this:

There were fans on this forum that were backing Ole all the way not because we felt that he was a guarantee of success. Even now that really isn't the case. It was merely a case of having the patience to allow all of this to play out, because to some it was clear just how bad a state the squad was in. The support and the patience was borne out of a belief that Ole was doing all of the right things to address those issues, coupled with the fact that we were seeing enough to suggest that he was also a pretty decent tactician that was making the most of the resources available to him. It was obvious that it wasn't going to be an overnight fix. It had to happen in layers, and now we are starting to see the fruits of that.

People either didn't see this, were not willing to be patient enough, or over time developed an agenda against Ole. To those people, he wasn't good enough, never would be, and that was all there was to it. Most of the friction on this forum came from that, and @GoldTrafford99 was right. It was all short term thinking from so many. A meltdown after every result and every performance that wasn't deemed to be good enough, and this was always a deeply unfair & unrealistic position to take.

Those posters that are now coming out with this line - 'I criticised him all the way until results got better, and now I'm backing him' - and thinking that they got it right, well......sorry but you didn't! They haven't suddenly taking a leap forward in ability as a management team. I doubt the coaching, or the man-management, or the philosophy have changed all that much. It always take time and trust and good decision making to build a team. What we have now is a result of two years of hard work & strong management

Every Manchester United fan needs to understand this.

If they are a true Manchester United fan they WILL understand this, because a true fan would know our club's history and how we have won things through our history.

But for my estimation, too many Manchester United fans don't understand this. They live in a world of instantania. Everything has to be NOW! The idea of having a football philosophy that doesn't bear fruit for four years is so alien, not only in concept, but in terms of their ability to think logically.

I would say this, to measure my feelings on this subject up:

If you are a Manchester United fan who has called for Ole to be sacked anytime in the past year and your idea of a replacement was Poch or Allegri or some other 'current hotshot', then I suggest that you support a very different Manchester United to the Manchester United I adore and support.
 

Black Adder

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Every Manchester United fan needs to understand this.

If they are a true Manchester United fan they WILL understand this, because a true fan would know our club's history and how we have won things through our history.

But for my estimation, too many Manchester United fans don't understand this. They live in a world of instantania. Everything has to be NOW! The idea of having a football philosophy that doesn't bear fruit for four years is so alien, not only in concept, but in terms of their ability to think logically.

I would say this, to measure my feelings on this subject up:

If you are a Manchester United fan who has called for Ole to be sacked anytime in the past year and your idea of a replacement was Poch or Allegri or some other 'current hotshot', then I suggest that you support a very different Manchester United to the Manchester United I adore and support.
Well you must be topest of the all top reds in the world.
 

Swiss_Red89

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Why not? Did he get to the top of the table by chance?
Of course not. But i don't think he got us to the top of the table because he's a tactital genius. It has more to do with the fact that he has implemented the right mentality around the squad and bought the right players. As i mentioned, he has certainly proven that he has an good enough standard tactical wise even for this huge job, otherwise we wouldn't be where we are.
 

romufc

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Of course not. But i don't think he got us to the top of the table because he's a tactital genius. It has more to do with the fact that he has implemented the right mentality around the squad and bought the right players. As i mentioned, he has certainly proven that he has an good enough standard tactical wise even for this huge job, otherwise we wouldn't be where we are.
Why fans underestimate tactics is beyond me.

We lost 6-1 to Spurs, lost to Arsenal so clearly it isnt just the right mentality and players.

After those results, he went with James and Mata against Newcastle, Chelsea etc... until we got the right results. Playing Pogba on the left was a tactical decision.

I dont get where people get this idea that he just puts the players on the pitch and they decide how to win the game.

Against City, we drew 0-0, they barely created, we barely created. Against Burnley he went with a tall strong side, again tactics.

Against SU away, was first time since Spurs we saw Pogba back in midfield.

Against Liverpool, we stopped their attacks, that is tactics btw.

Liverpool at home, was different tactics.
 

RedSky

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It's all luck @romufc!!

What I don't get is surely Ole is one of the Managers that uses tactics the most. He's always switching systems and formations to cope with the opponent. It's not like he has one tactic and system and lets the opponent worry about stopping us, he has United be reactive and fluid. Given the results he's got in the last year that would indicate that he and the staff are actually very good at tactics and strategy.
 

romufc

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It's all luck @romufc!!

What I don't get is surely Ole is one of the Managers that uses tactics the most. He's always switching systems and formations to cope with the opponent. It's not like he has one tactic and system and lets the opponent worry about stopping us, he has United be reactive and fluid. Given the results he's got in the last year that would indicate that he and the staff are actually very good at tactics and strategy.
He has no system and style is the narrative.

Like you said, we use different systems, some people make it out as if Ole wakes up and says today we play 4-4-2 diamond, these are the starting positions, do what you want on the pitch.

Klopp is a very good manager, in the run Liverpool have had, he has not changed his tactic one bit, its the same thing over and over again.

United when they were going through trouble, we changed tactics to suit the players we have and to nullify the opponent.

Can you imagine the uproar if we did what Liverpool did and our RB was bullied all game ? people on here would be going mental on how he is naive.. how can he not see the problem on the wings etc...
 

rotherham_red

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It really is as simple as this:

There were fans on this forum that were backing Ole all the way not because we felt that he was a guarantee of success. Even now that really isn't the case. It was merely a case of having the patience to allow all of this to play out, because to some it was clear just how bad a state the squad was in. The support and the patience was borne out of a belief that Ole was doing all of the right things to address those issues, coupled with the fact that we were seeing enough to suggest that he was also a pretty decent tactician that was making the most of the resources available to him. It was obvious that it wasn't going to be an overnight fix. It had to happen in layers, and now we are starting to see the fruits of that.

People either didn't see this, were not willing to be patient enough, or over time developed an agenda against Ole. To those people, he wasn't good enough, never would be, and that was all there was to it. Most of the friction on this forum came from that, and @GoldTrafford99 was right. It was all short term thinking from so many. A meltdown after every result and every performance that wasn't deemed to be good enough, and this was always a deeply unfair & unrealistic position to take.

Those posters that are now coming out with this line - 'I criticised him all the way until results got better, and now I'm backing him' - and thinking that they got it right, well......sorry but you didn't! They haven't suddenly taking a leap forward in ability as a management team. I doubt the coaching, or the man-management, or the philosophy have changed all that much. It always take time and trust and good decision making to build a team. What we have now is a result of two years of hard work & strong management
Absolutely spot on. And all credit to you mate, you've been bearing the brunt of the hassle while I was popping in to those threads every now and then (for the sake of my mental health more than anything else).

At the time I couldn't (and still don't) understand Utd fans who didn't want him to succeed. A thoroughly decent man who always put the club first and was going to make use of the kids who were coming through. What wasn't there to love about that? I make no bones about it, a title under Ole would be so much more sweeter than it would be under anyone else. Even if it ultimately didn't work out, I'd have enjoyed the journey because it was Ole who was leading it. I grew so disillusioned under Jose, and Ole evaporated all of that as soon as he came in. For that, I'll always be thankful.
 

Swiss_Red89

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Why fans underestimate tactics is beyond me.

We lost 6-1 to Spurs, lost to Arsenal so clearly it isnt just the right mentality and players.

After those results, he went with James and Mata against Newcastle, Chelsea etc... until we got the right results. Playing Pogba on the left was a tactical decision.

I dont get where people get this idea that he just puts the players on the pitch and they decide how to win the game.

Against City, we drew 0-0, they barely created, we barely created. Against Burnley he went with a tall strong side, again tactics.

Against SU away, was first time since Spurs we saw Pogba back in midfield.

Against Liverpool, we stopped their attacks, that is tactics btw.

Liverpool at home, was different tactics.
Calm down lads. I didnt' want to disrespect Ole as i'm a fan and i love him at the wheel.

I just said that, in my view, he is not a tactical genius and probably never will be and i stand by that. But i also mentioned that he has proven to be good enough and better than most thought from tactial point of view.
 
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reelworld

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Must be a United thing, I remember plenty called us a ‘one man team’ when Ronaldo was here as well. Incredible when you look at the quality in that side :lol:

There’s a cult of manager trend in recent years. Some people act as if it almost doesn’t matter who the players on the pitch are, as long as there’s a “philosophy” behind them.
I think this is the crux of the issue.
People think that because some young and hip managers managed to get his team to play some nice football here and there with a lesser team then they assumed Ole is inferior. It's ridiculous. I think few people understand how difficult it is to managed United.
 

Red Shorts

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Credit to the turnaround, and to the board for not being hasty this time round. Won't deny I was leaning towards believing he was running out of time, but will always accept some humble pie if it means a period of success.

This is his 3rd successful phase after his appointment and the restart; the difference is that not only have we cruised some games but we have fought the hard ones out right to the end which I think takes more heart and fight. We come out firing in the 2nd half and you have to believe a lot of it is down to a rouding HT speech by Ole.

4 more months to go of a jampacked schedule, and Ole needs to maintain the belief in this squad. Then we can certainly see some success in the 3 remaining competitions.
 

GoldTrafford99

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Well you must be topest of the all top reds in the world.

No. My feelings on this are pretty average in comparison to all United fans I know, personally.

It's only via social media and online forums do we possess a fan base who don't even know the culture upon which the club they chose to support was built.

By and large, I am a very average Manchester United fan. It's just that even the average Manchester United fan wasn't naive enough to think Ole was doing a poor job and itching for him to be sacked. As I have said on these forums plenty of times... on here, for the past two years, we have had polls that suggest 48-55% of United fans wanted Ole sacked at some point during those two years. You can bet your lowest-hanging bollock that nowhere even near 49-55% of match going fans would have called for Ole to be sacked. Not even a fraction of that per centage of match-going fans have wanted him sacked at any stage. I don't know anybody personally who is a Manchester United fan who wanted him sacked. My feelings on this are very average. Logical. And average.

All I see are people with stupid names (such as mine: GoldTrafford99) on internet forums and idiots on Twitter with usernames like MUFC4Eva who have wanted him sacked.
 
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Bilbo

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Absolutely spot on. And all credit to you mate, you've been bearing the brunt of the hassle while I was popping in to those threads every now and then (for the sake of my mental health more than anything else).

At the time I couldn't (and still don't) understand Utd fans who didn't want him to succeed. A thoroughly decent man who always put the club first and was going to make use of the kids who were coming through. What wasn't there to love about that? I make no bones about it, a title under Ole would be so much more sweeter than it would be under anyone else. Even if it ultimately didn't work out, I'd have enjoyed the journey because it was Ole who was leading it. I grew so disillusioned under Jose, and Ole evaporated all of that as soon as he came in. For that, I'll always be thankful.
That bolded sentence is touching on the part that probably bothered me the most in all this. I'm not sure a lot of posters even really knew what they wanted for the club. I don't believe that its going overboard to claim the following things to be fair to say about Ole:

A thoroughly decent man (as you say)
Club legend that obviously bleeds United red
Conducted himself well in front of the media
Never spoken ill of the club or any player
Made selfless decisions for the good of the club
Bought quality, likeable players
Sold almost everyone we all wanted sold
Placed greater focus on the academy and signing young talent

I think if we'd asked every poster on here to design a manager from scratch after Jose was sacked, then many of those lists would have looked very close to the one above. We were lucky enough to get it, but it still wasn't enough.

We can all be honest and say that there isn't a perfect fanbase anywhere in the world. There have been some ups and downs and constructive criticism is always a healthy thing (and there was and still is a lot of constructive criticism), but to have to constantly read things such as 'fraud' 'PE Teacher' 'out of his depth' 'Glazer puppet' (not to mention the more personal insults) was one thing. To have anybody who backed this man called 'deluded' 'clueless' 'top red' and whatever else also added to it.

It really did cast a very poor light on a lot of our fanbase. Thankfully we seem to be moving beyond that now, although I'm sure we are only ever 2 or 3 bad results from having some of that re-appear.
 

dal

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Every Manchester United fan needs to understand this.

If they are a true Manchester United fan they WILL understand this, because a true fan would know our club's history and how we have won things through our history.

But for my estimation, too many Manchester United fans don't understand this. They live in a world of instantania. Everything has to be NOW! The idea of having a football philosophy that doesn't bear fruit for four years is so alien, not only in concept, but in terms of their ability to think logically.

I would say this, to measure my feelings on this subject up:

If you are a Manchester United fan who has called for Ole to be sacked anytime in the past year and your idea of a replacement was Poch or Allegri or some other 'current hotshot', then I suggest that you support a very different Manchester United to the Manchester United I adore and support.
100 percent agreed. Spoilt nature nowadays.
 

Ludens the Red

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Talk about missing the actual point being made. Christ.
Nah I didn’t though did I. What I did miss however, was this astonishingly arrogant post.


Absolutely not true.

There are folk who could see what Ole was doing behind the scenes. The fact that he has signed so many academy players who won't see first-team action for at least 2-3 years from now... the fact that he re-juggled the club structure from the academy to the first team... the fact that he was buying young and hungry players for the first team who won't hit peak for 4-5 years... the fact that he assembled a young and hungry-with-something-to-prove coaching staff... the fact that when he was interviewed by Woodward for the job he laid out a 4-5 year plan to get us back to the top.

All a lot of fans see is the last result and the next game. They don't have the patience or football insight or knowledge to look 4-5 years ahead. Some fans do have that insight. Some fans simply don't.

Depends on what you're looking out for when you decide to support a football club; though I would question anyone who chooses to support Manchester United and doesn't have the patience to see a manager evolve a team over 5-6 years until its fully under his identity (seeing as that is the ONLY WAY we have ever won titles at our football club in our entire history). I've said it a million times: Those calling for Ole's head over the past year DEFINITELY would have sacked Matt Busby in 1952. And they DEFINITELY would have sacked Alex Ferguson in 1989. It's that simple.

You can sum up Ole's reign this way: Any 'fan' who has called for Ole's head over the past two years has a very narrow-minded view of football and had ZERO insight into what was going on behind the scenes - all they saw was the last result and the next game. They also have zero insight into the history of this football club and how both of our runs of success arrived through long-term planning, not quick fixes.

Where in total contrast, those who are happy to stick with Ole's long-term approach whether he finished 3rd or 7th last season simply have much more football insight and much more understanding of what and who our football club is.
How did you type this and not throw up half way through?
Should add that your perception of Man Uniteds history with managers is one of incredible mental gymnastics.
 
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rotherham_red

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That bolded sentence is touching on the part that probably bothered me the most in all this. I'm not sure a lot of posters even really knew what they wanted for the club. I don't believe that its going overboard to claim the following things to be fair to say about Ole:

A thoroughly decent man (as you say)
Club legend that obviously bleeds United red
Conducted himself well in front of the media
Never spoken ill of the club or any player
Made selfless decisions for the good of the club
Bought quality, likeable players
Sold almost everyone we all wanted sold
Placed greater focus on the academy and signing young talent

I think if we'd asked every poster on here to design a manager from scratch after Jose was sacked, then many of those lists would have looked very close to the one above. We were lucky enough to get it, but it still wasn't enough.

We can all be honest and say that there isn't a perfect fanbase anywhere in the world. There have been some ups and downs and constructive criticism is always a healthy thing (and there was and still is a lot of constructive criticism), but to have to constantly read things such as 'fraud' 'PE Teacher' 'out of his depth' 'Glazer puppet' (not to mention the more personal insults) was one thing. To have anybody who backed this man called 'deluded' 'clueless' 'top red' and whatever else also added to it.

It really did cast a very poor light on a lot of our fanbase. Thankfully we seem to be moving beyond that now, although I'm sure we are only ever 2 or 3 bad results from having some of that re-appear.
Honestly mate, I don't disagree with a single word. It was and is downright weird to me, but what can I say, different strokes and all that...