Zlatan tells Lukaku "‘Go do your voodoo s***, you little donkey"

DWelbz19

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fecking hell.

Just when I thought I had heard it all on RedCafe.

We now have a lot of people arguing that the idea of “voodoo” isn’t stereotypically associated with black culture.
You don’t even need to click a fecking link. People are obviously being obtuse for the sake of it. First result:
 

harms

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Either it's pure coincidence (in which case a lot of people may still see it in that racially loaded light given it wouldn't make any sense otherwise) or Zlatan is specifically recycling someone else's racist bullshit to aggravate Lukaku.
To be fair, if it was coincidental and had nothing to do with Everton comments, it surely is undoubtedly racist?
 

sullydnl

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To be fair, if it was coincidental and had nothing to do with Everton comments, it surely is undoubtedly racist?
Yep, I certainly can't think of any other reason to say it.
 

That'sHernandez

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To be fair, if it was coincidental and had nothing to do with Everton comments, it surely is undoubtedly racist?
The only other explanation is Lukaku does practice voodoo, contrary to his previous comments, and Zlatan was aware of this during their time at United together.
 

NotThatSoph

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My first thought is people that think they talk to the dead etc. Absolutely zero to do with any skin colour or religion.
It's a religion. Or, little more precise, it can refer to a few different strands. The origin is West African Voodoo, but there are several versions in the Americas. Haitian voodoo is probably the most famous, but in any case the explanation here is slavery.

The reason you don't associate it with religion is probably because it hasn't been treated as one. It's treated as "black magic", devil worshipping, and used to depict certain people as primitive, degenerate, dangerous etc. Something scary, or in the milder cases something laughable.

Racism and the Fear of “Voodoo” is a very short article about the American depiction of voodoo during and following the Reconstruction. That and charicatures in popular media is pretty much 100 % of the white Western world's exposure. For the latter, if you're really interested, Haitian Vodou and voodoo: Imagined religion and popular culture is quite good but around 25 pages. I'm sure you can find something shorter by googling around as well.
 

Cascarino

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No one is talking about Lukaku being a male chauvinist pig. To say that you will “f..ck someones wife” is basically threatening to rape her. It also somewhat implies that he will punish people using his d..ck. If people get upset about alleged racist comments they should also get upset by comments as the above.
Didn't he say "feck you and your wife" and not "I will feck your wife"


“People of all races can have epicanthic folds so actually the “Asian eyes” gesture isn’t racist.”
:lol:

voodoo is a religion? I just thought it was some crazy crap sticking pins in dolls. It's been laughed at ever since I was a kid, I'm not sure I'm going to suddenly start respecting it because it happens to come from a certain culture. Maybe popular tv took it and made it westernised or something, I never remember as a kid this being associated with Africa.
The argument I'm reading here is that because the television you watched as a child mocked and misrepresented this religion/way of life, there's no need for you to start respecting it.
No one is asking for you to believe in it, but I think common decency means that one should be respectful of other cultures and religions. I'm not a Hindu but I'm not going to disrespect it because I've seen it mocked on television growing up.
 

DWelbz19

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Usually avoid these topics like a plague. He said vodoo shit. And I don't know why some are defending it.
I don’t actually know what’s worse — those denying he actually said voodoo, and instead claim he says “wooden shed” :lol: — or those who are suddenly inventing new definitions of voodoo.
 

matt23

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I thought voodoo was more about sticking pins in people's eyes
The victim blaming in this post is unreal. I suppose it's a woman's fault for wearing a short skirt if she's raped as well?
Depends where you are in the World.
There are many cultures that treat the freedom of female expression very differently to Europe, and you could equally be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong to do so. Ironic?

Edit. Not the best take. Think I was trying to be more flippant than it came across but I shouldn't be talking about serious subjects that I barely know anything about.
 
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vanderpants

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Stop being ignorant now. You fully know Donkey can be interpreted as racist and voodoo is associated with African culture. If a man of another race randomly said that to a black man on the straight. He would be asked to explain himself.
Maybe if you are a snowflake, I've been called a donkey many times when playing Sunday league football
 

Dante

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It's Serie A. I'd be shocked if they penalised Zlatan for a phrase that's so open debate (as evidenced by the length of this thread).
 

Wumminator

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I thought voodoo was more about sticking pins in people's eyes

Depends where you are in the World.
There are many cultures that treat the freedom of female expression very differently to Europe, and you could equally be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong to do so. Ironic?
What.
The.
feck
 

vanderpants

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Not being “a racist” (whatever that means) isn’t a cast iron defence against having said something racist. You don’t have to be a signed up member of the KKK to make a racist comment.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that Zlatan had previously used an ethnic slur against Mido so there seems to be a pattern there.
So the words donkey and voodoo are now racist are they?
 

ReallyUSA

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Yeah that’s cool. I already mentioned it earlier that it’s probably locker room banter which he brought up to get under his skin.. that’s how I see it anyway.

Heated argument people tend to go personal.
I don't see how people can automatically go to racism that's all
 

That'sHernandez

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I thought voodoo was more about sticking pins in people's eyes

Depends where you are in the World.
There are many cultures that treat the freedom of female expression very differently to Europe, and you could equally be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong to do so. Ironic?
Yeah I mean you could be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong, but it would be wrong to do that because it's about equality and not living in the 19th century any more. And I'm not going to respect a culture that does not treat all members of its society equally.
 

Peter van der Gea

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I think that whether its racist or not depends on what happened between Moshiri and Lukaku.

If Moshiri made it all up and Ibra knew, then Ibra is being racist 100%. Whether he's winding up Lukaku about Voodoo itself or the news stories, he's using something that tends to be viewed as racial, maliciously.

If Moshiri got the wrong end of the stick because of something Lukaku said (it might have been an excuse to Moshiri), or if Lukaku did say it and then lied about it after, then Ibra is mocking Lukaku because of his own actions and so not racist.
 

Fluctuation0161

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I thought voodoo was more about sticking pins in people's eyes

Depends where you are in the World.
There are many cultures that treat the freedom of female expression very differently to Europe, and you could equally be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong to do so. Ironic?
Please go and get educated.
 

Gehrman

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I don’t actually know what’s worse — those denying he actually said voodoo, and instead claim he says “wooden shed” :lol: — or those who are suddenly inventing new definitions of voodoo.
Actually i think "you donkey! Go to your wooden shed!" Is worse.
 

sullydnl

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Maybe if you are a snowflake, I've been called a donkey many times when playing Sunday league football
Hey look, it's a time-traveller from the mid 2010's who still describes people as a snowflake unironically. What's it like all the way back there where it doesn't immediately make you look stupid? I bet it's sunny.
 

vanderpants

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Hey look, it's a time-traveller from the mid 2010's who still describes people as a snowflake unironically. What's it like all the way back there where it doesn't immediately make you look stupid? I bet it's sunny.
Hey look an internet troll sat in his bedroom trying to be funny
 

DWelbz19

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I thought voodoo was more about sticking pins in people's eyes

Depends where you are in the World.
There are many cultures that treat the freedom of female expression very differently to Europe, and you could equally be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong to do so. Ironic?
Congratulations. I think you’re a dead ringer for worst post of 2021
 

Zehner

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If he said that, he should be punished. He can't get away with everything just because he's Chuck Norris lite.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Maybe if you are a snowflake, I've been called a donkey many times when playing Sunday league football
Snowflake. Are people still using this phrase. :lol:


For what it's worth I don't think donkey is racially motivated. Peter Crouch is a prime example of that. Voodoo is open for debate, but in context of the Lukaku media story it is a 50/50.
 

worldgonemad

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I,m pretty sure it was not intended as a racist comment , and the fact lukaku does not seem to have made a complaint would maybe back that up .

IMO Zlatan was trying to get under lukaku's skin to gain an advantage . Anyone who has played football knows it goes on in every game in different ways . Treading on toes , nipping , verbal abuse . Zlatan was pushing the boundaries , repeating something Lukaku has said to be a lie . No wonder he got fired up . Having said that Lukaku making sexual loaded comments about zlatan and his wife is also wrong . For what its worth I dont mind seeing this kind of wind up on the pitch , it can be entertaining and it very rarely gets out of hand . I,m sure Lukaku has used questionable tactics to gain advantage over opponents before .

Not related i,m sure , but at work we often refer to tricky or skillfull situations as voodoo shit , i think refering to the magic element , not the colour element .
 

arnie_ni

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This is a séance, not voodoo or anything to do with voodoo.

It’s weird that you’d be so desperate to defend a racist comment that you’d basically come in with the argument that you’re completely ignorant about the meaning of words and therefore the man who made the comments must be equally ignorant and can be cleared of any racist intent. It’s a pretty weak argument.
Read my other posts. I've clearly stated I'm deferring to people more knowledge because I didnt understand the intent behind.

I think it's equally despicable to call someone racist because they don't understand how something is racist at first glance.

I don't claim to know everything about every culture or religion so there's no way in hell I will grasp every racist term.

Again, ill defer to people more knowledgeable on the subject
 
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ivaldo

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Interestingly, the thing that seemed to trigger Lukaku was the reference to his mother.
 

JPRouve

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Congratulations. I think you’re a dead ringer for worst post of 2021
To be fair, I think that it's pure ignorance. I bet that the vast majority of people have no clue about what Voodoo actually is and only know what they see in TV shows like The Vampire Diaries.
 

Slevs

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Yeah I'm going to head out of this thread. Its desceneded into the usual caf "racist vs not racist arguement" with the passive agressiveness and people calling each other uneducated and illiterate.
 

RC89

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I presume it has to do with islam and making salat?

He is African by heritage but don’t follow him anymore to know if he’s said/done anything recently to show he practises voodoo.

If that’s what he said, then it’s more of a religion thing I think.
You presume what has to do with Islam and making Salat?
 

arnie_ni

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There is an history of disdain in islamic culture for polytheists beliefs, especially african ones, that date back to the time Islam expanded to these countries. Even now, you often see videos on whatsapp of muslim people mocking african people who practice Islam a bit differently.
When you come from a muslim background, like Zlatan, you are taught from a young age to despise every beliefs outside of monotheists religions. That's why if he said "Voodoo", it's a really loaded insult. And having grown up in a similar environnement (black and moroccan/algerian culture) as Lukaku, I'm sure he picked up on that. It's one of the worst insult, basically calling you a subhuman.
And again, can we expect everyone to know this (talking about people in this thread) and if they dont and can't grasp the racism at first glance, how does that then make said person racist
 

Withnail

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No one is talking about Lukaku being a male chauvinist pig. To say that you will “f..ck someones wife” is basically threatening to rape her. It also somewhat implies that he will punish people using his d..ck. If people get upset about alleged racist comments they should also get upset by comments as the above.
He said feck you and your wife.
He likely only mentioned Zlatan's wife as his mother had been brought into it.

voodoo is a religion? I just thought it was some crazy crap sticking pins in dolls. It's been laughed at ever since I was a kid, I'm not sure I'm going to suddenly start respecting it because it happens to come from a certain culture. Maybe popular tv took it and made it westernised or something, I never remember as a kid this being associated with Africa.

There's a lot of clumsiness in this thread regarding voodoo... Western portrayal of voodoo in TV and film is racist to begin with.
Exactly. All that nonsense about pins in dolls is european witchcraft anyway and became associated with voodoo through books, tv and film.

I thought voodoo was more about sticking pins in people's eyes

Depends where you are in the World.
There are many cultures that treat the freedom of female expression very differently to Europe, and you could equally be accused of racism for suggesting they're wrong to do so. Ironic?
No it's not ironic and certainly not racist to criticise certain societies for oppressing women. Jesus wept
 

arnie_ni

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It's a religion. Or, little more precise, it can refer to a few different strands. The origin is West African Voodoo, but there are several versions in the Americas. Haitian voodoo is probably the most famous, but in any case the explanation here is slavery.

The reason you don't associate it with religion is probably because it hasn't been treated as one. It's treated as "black magic", devil worshipping, and used to depict certain people as primitive, degenerate, dangerous etc. Something scary, or in the milder cases something laughable.

Racism and the Fear of “Voodoo” is a very short article about the American depiction of voodoo during and following the Reconstruction. That and charicatures in popular media is pretty much 100 % of the white Western world's exposure. For the latter, if you're really interested, Haitian Vodou and voodoo: Imagined religion and popular culture is quite good but around 25 pages. I'm sure you can find something shorter by googling around as well.
Yes and it's been pointed out and duly noted by myself.

But I'm not prepared to sit here and be called a racist because I didn't understand the racial undertone at first glance.
 

RC89

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Not really. It's usually used for players who lack good technique. For example people don't call Pogba as a donkey as he has awesome technique but many called Carroll as donkey, same with Henderson before he started winning trophies.
Agreed. I regularly found myself calling Lukaku a donkey, and never did with Pogba despite the many grievances.