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2020-21 Performances


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SirMarcusRashford

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There's some absolute low lifes out there. Social media really brings the worst out of people
It does, but footballers getting abused on social media keeps coming on the news and ex-footballers appearing on the news talking about it (like Clinton Morrison on Sky News right now) like it's a Premier League or English problem (ie this abuse is coming from someone within the UK).

I'm betting most of these racists are from people outside of the UK, possibly even trolls who aren't even United fans doing it on a purpose to Manchester United players (as United players are the ones who seem to have been targeted this week) to make the club look bad and its fanbase racist.

So as much as we try to tackle the problem within the UK (i.e. talk of ID being used to sign up to the likes of Facebook/Twitter), it's pointless unless this becomes universal throughout the world, for example a person in South America/Asia, can leave a comment to footballers on social media just as quick and easy as someone within the UK.

Rule changes and regulation needs to come from social media companies themselves, not any 1 government, that will never work.
 
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UncleBob

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I think Rashford actually needs to become more selfish and not less. His best position is inside left, with his game for any given match adapting to the opposition. Currently though he is frequently being asked to play on the right to accommodate a far more limited and out-of-form Martial. From here on, it should be Rashford as either an inside left behind a centre forward or as the left-sided split striker. It’s not doing him or United any good to have him being the fall guy.

People are are always acting a little polemical with Rashford. He’s one of the best forwards in his age bracket in the world. It’s weird how many supporters don’t want to believe it and always want to put him down. He’s got a fantastic amount of attacking returns this season, outstripping what Rooney was doing at his age with a better team and colleagues around him.

Yesterday is a good example of the hypocrisy around Rashford. He was torn apart for his finishing against Leicester, when he actually scored, but was still considered to have had cost us the game for missing further good chances. Cavani at worst had the same amount of xG yesterday as Rashford did against Leciester and by some sources had even more. The consensus appears to be that Cavani had a net positive contribution yesterday, despite converting nothing, yet when Rashford scores he still cannot escape criticism for poor finishing.

I am struggling to envision any future for United that doesn’t see the team based around Rashford as our main left-sided attacker for the foreseeable future. How do people think he is one of our main problems? Literally any team in the world would want to sign him.
How so?
 

Lentwood

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Does anybody remember the episode of The Simpsons when Frank “Grimey” Grimes starts working at the nuclear power plant and is driven crazy how inept Homer is and how his colleagues just seem to accept it, or not even notice?

I feel like Frank Grimes right now!

I don’t want to dislike Rashford. He’s a local lad, by all accounts he is a very nice, grounded lad. It’s not his fault he has been labelled a “wonderkid” and talked-up far beyond his actual level of talent.

The problem is, that’s what drives me nuts. Take lads like McTominay, I’ll defend him to the hilt. Nobody is saying he is a “wonderkid” or the second coming of Paul Scholes but if ever he was talked down as “average” or “not Utd standard” I would defend him resolutely.

Also, I’m not one for slating players who just clearly aren’t that good. What is the point of hammering people like Lingard and Pereira over and over again? We know they are not Utd standard. The management know they are not Utd standard. They probably know it, so what’s the point in keep hammering them?

What really drives me to Frank Grimes level of craziness with Rashford is that when I watch him play, I see a very, very average player, yet seemingly half the country see “a world class talent”. You never hear Rashford criticised by pundits and if they do mention he “might not have been at his best”, an excuse is offered at the same time - “he has been played out of position”, “he looks tired”, “is he carrying an injury?”. These excuses then find their way into the subconscious of his advocates on this forum.

The excuses trotted out for the lad are incredible. There are still people claiming that the minor stress fracture he picked up in January 2020 is affecting him. There are people claiming it’s the fact he is playing on the right, despite the fact that that was his position for 10 years in the Academy. Last year, the excuse offered was that he was being played at CF...so what, I’m led to believe this “world class talent” can only successfully pass the ball five yards, control a football and make a decision if he very specifically plays on the left strip of grass and not the middle bit or the right bit?

I get that a player may be more effective left, right or centre...I would maybe accept a 10/15% drop-off but it shouldn’t be the case that he is absolutely hopeless if played marginally out of his “preferred” position. It’s not acceptable to not be able to do the basics.

Then, to compound matters, we get people talking about how his detractors are “only piping up when he has a bad game”...that’s absolutely rubbish. The lad has a bad game (with the odd “moment” here and there) probably 60/70% of the time. The rest of the country and the press continue to just mindlessly claim he is a “super player” or “world class” seemingly without actually watching him play football! Yesterday, I saw a Sky Sports article claiming that United’s run to the top of the table was a result of Bruno and also Rashford “going up another level”.

Then we get this “he is still learning” argument...OK, well please tell me, what is going to happen overnight that is going to drastically improve Rashford after 5/6 seasons of senior football and 20 years + being coached every day at Manchester United? Again, I posted elsewhere several times, players DON’T just get better with age as many seem to believe. It doesn’t just happen! Ronaldo improved because SAF and Queiroz where able to turn him from mega-talented show-off into a relentlessly effective machine. Rooney improved with age as he mellowed and stopped getting wound up and/or trying to win games on his own. These are two tangible ways in which players can improve with coaching and mental maturity. Please someone explain to me how at 23, Rashford is suddenly going to improve the basics, like passing, heading, decision-making etc...? See, with Rooney and Ronaldo, it was in them all along, it just needed to be coached. I don’t believe that level of talent (or anywhere near that level) is in Rashford so I just don’t see him improving that much throughout the rest of his career.

I mean, to continue on the Frank Grimes/Simpsons analogy, I feel like I’m losing my mind to the point I feel like I actually really don’t like a lad who by all accounts I should have nothing but support for!

We need to wake up and realise what Rashford is and get realistic. He’s a 20/30 minute impact player at best for a team with ambitions to win a title. That’s not based on the last few weeks, that’s based his mean performance across 250 senior games.

If we could achieve that and just stop banging on about “world class this” or “young and learning that” or “playing with injury blah” or “out of position” I can remain sane and stop wanting to put sharp objects through my eyeballs whilst watching him play!
 

Sweet Square

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Does anybody remember the episode of The Simpsons when Frank “Grimey” Grimes starts working at the nuclear power plant and is driven crazy how inept Homer is and how his colleagues just seem to accept it, or not even notice?

I feel like Frank Grimes right now!

I don’t want to dislike Rashford. He’s a local lad, by all accounts he is a very nice, grounded lad. It’s not his fault he has been labelled a “wonderkid” and talked-up far beyond his actual level of talent.

The problem is, that’s what drives me nuts. Take lads like McTominay, I’ll defend him to the hilt. Nobody is saying he is a “wonderkid” or the second coming of Paul Scholes but if ever he was talked down as “average” or “not Utd standard” I would defend him resolutely.

Also, I’m not one for slating players who just clearly aren’t that good. What is the point of hammering people like Lingard and Pereira over and over again? We know they are not Utd standard. The management know they are not Utd standard. They probably know it, so what’s the point in keep hammering them?

What really drives me to Frank Grimes level of craziness with Rashford is that when I watch him play, I see a very, very average player, yet seemingly half the country see “a world class talent”. You never hear Rashford criticised by pundits and if they do mention he “might not have been at his best”, an excuse is offered at the same time - “he has been played out of position”, “he looks tired”, “is he carrying an injury?”. These excuses then find their way into the subconscious of his advocates on this forum.

The excuses trotted out for the lad are incredible. There are still people claiming that the minor stress fracture he picked up in January 2020 is affecting him. There are people claiming it’s the fact he is playing on the right, despite the fact that that was his position for 10 years in the Academy. Last year, the excuse offered was that he was being played at CF...so what, I’m led to believe this “world class talent” can only successfully pass the ball five yards, control a football and make a decision if he very specifically plays on the left strip of grass and not the middle bit or the right bit?

I get that a player may be more effective left, right or centre...I would maybe accept a 10/15% drop-off but it shouldn’t be the case that he is absolutely hopeless if played marginally out of his “preferred” position. It’s not acceptable to not be able to do the basics.

Then, to compound matters, we get people talking about how his detractors are “only piping up when he has a bad game”...that’s absolutely rubbish. The lad has a bad game (with the odd “moment” here and there) probably 60/70% of the time. The rest of the country and the press continue to just mindlessly claim he is a “super player” or “world class” seemingly without actually watching him play football! Yesterday, I saw a Sky Sports article claiming that United’s run to the top of the table was a result of Bruno and also Rashford “going up another level”.

Then we get this “he is still learning” argument...OK, well please tell me, what is going to happen overnight that is going to drastically improve Rashford after 5/6 seasons of senior football and 20 years + being coached every day at Manchester United? Again, I posted elsewhere several times, players DON’T just get better with age as many seem to believe. It doesn’t just happen! Ronaldo improved because SAF and Queiroz where able to turn him from mega-talented show-off into a relentlessly effective machine. Rooney improved with age as he mellowed and stopped getting wound up and/or trying to win games on his own. These are two tangible ways in which players can improve with coaching and mental maturity. Please someone explain to me how at 23, Rashford is suddenly going to improve the basics, like passing, heading, decision-making etc...? See, with Rooney and Ronaldo, it was in them all along, it just needed to be coached. I don’t believe that level of talent (or anywhere near that level) is in Rashford so I just don’t see him improving that much throughout the rest of his career.

I mean, to continue on the Frank Grimes/Simpsons analogy, I feel like I’m losing my mind to the point I feel like I actually really don’t like a lad who by all accounts I should have nothing but support for!

We need to wake up and realise what Rashford is and get realistic. He’s a 20/30 minute impact player at best for a team with ambitions to win a title. That’s not based on the last few weeks, that’s based his mean performance across 250 senior games.

If we could achieve that and just stop banging on about “world class this” or “young and learning that” or “playing with injury blah” or “out of position” I can remain sane and stop wanting to put sharp objects through my eyeballs whilst watching him play!
Hey, you okay, Grimey?
 

InspiRED

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:lol: when ? He literally spent the entire match making the wrong decisions.

Like below, where he had the oppertunity to pass the ball into open space for AWB, instead of just runs into two Arsenal players and loses the ball



Early into the second half there's this gem after AWB makes a tackle to allow us to counter attack:

He can easily pass the ball into open space for Cavani initially:



Decides that he'll run further with it, still has plenty of options for the pass.



Overhits it and loses the ball.



Then there's this gem when he's subbed off:



Shooting from that distance when it's 0-0 and you have other options, jesus fecking christ the decision making.
I think I missed a few of those moments in the game and yeah those screenshots at those moments don't really work in his favour do they? :lol:. Tbh I totally get your point, if there's one thing that lets his game down it's totally this. My point I guess is that, at least at times now, the prospect of picking out team-mates when he's in head down dribble mode seems to be entering his consciousness. I mean a couple of seasons ago it was beyond the pale and combined with the fact that when he was dribbling and making direct attacks he was also often very ineffective.

Now what we have is that on a good day he's a pretty devastating weapon. But on a bad day when that's not coming off his lack of team awareness can make him a bit of a hindrance.

He is a great passer but it tends to be when he and the ball are relatively stationary and he can look up and spot runners. He obviously needs to work on his team awareness when he is moving at pace with the ball.

People who are racially abusing him on social meeja can obviously feck right off.
 

UncleBob

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Aug 21, 2014
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What are you laughing at?

Bruno 16 goals, Rashford 15 goals.....Cavani and Martial have 6 and 5 respectively.

Rashford is our best forward
Well...I'm a bit perplexed about the inability that some have to debate actual issues, and that we're pretending that its down to the position he's playing in and that it's always someone else's fault.

There's numerous situations, both from the left and right, where Rashford either shows a complete lack of awareness or football intelligence by ignoring the obvious pass to a teammate in a great position. Against Liverpool, in the league, he could've easily sent Martial and Fred alone against Robertson, instead he runs with the ball until he loses it. He could've attempted to play Cavani on a one vs one with the goalkeeper, runs with the ball until he wins a throw in. Arsenal yesterday, more or less the same.

I have no problem whatsoever with the fact that playing out wide on the right wing limits him more than when he plays out left. However, that has feck all to do with his decision making when he finds himself with multiple options to either side and he instead ends up running with the ball until he loses it.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
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Messages
10,274
Well...I'm a bit perplexed about the inability that some have to debate actual issues, and that we're pretending that its down to the position he's playing in and that it's always someone else's fault.

There's numerous situations, both from the left and right, where Rashford either shows a complete lack of awareness or football intelligence by ignoring the obvious pass to a teammate in a great position. Against Liverpool, in the league, he could've easily sent Martial and Fred alone against Robertson, instead he runs with the ball until he loses it. He could've attempted to play Cavani on a one vs one with the goalkeeper, runs with the ball until he wins a throw in. Arsenal yesterday, more or less the same.

I have no problem whatsoever with the fact that playing out wide on the right wing limits him more than when he plays out left. However, that has feck all to do with his decision making when he finds himself with multiple options to either side and he instead ends up running with the ball until he loses it.
All players have flaws. Martial has many more. One of them being he's gutless.

Rashford started the season just fine scoring the vast majority of our goals along with Bruno. He's been moved to the centre and mostly the right and his form has fallen off a cliff.

Nobody thinks he's the perfect player who can't improve his game. Of course he can but he's one of our best players all the same.
 
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UncleBob

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All players have flaws. Martial has many more. One of them being she's gutless.

Rashford started the season just fine scoring the vast majority of our goals along with Bruno. He's been moved to the centre and mostly the right and his form has fallen off a cliff.

Nobody thinks he's the perfect player who can't improve his game. Of course he can but he's one of our best players all the same.
:wenger::wenger:
 

Swiss_Red89

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Absolutely. I also think he looks quite sad in himself. I wonder is there personal problems. His lack of effort and energy is not like his former self. I hope he's not just buying into his hype and thinking he doesn't have to work hard anymore. It's a big problem when he plays now.
Agree with this. I'm also disappointed with his effort level, it's not the same anymore. And i agree that he looks quite sad on the pitch recently, as he has lost his passion for the sport a bit.
 

TMDaines

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Messages
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In the sense that he’s currently on the right because Ole is accommodating Martial on the left, who would offer even less on the right. Because Rashford is the more willing/pliant player, his game is suffering.
 

shazzmufc

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Messages
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Does anybody remember the episode of The Simpsons when Frank “Grimey” Grimes starts working at the nuclear power plant and is driven crazy how inept Homer is and how his colleagues just seem to accept it, or not even notice?

I feel like Frank Grimes right now!

I don’t want to dislike Rashford. He’s a local lad, by all accounts he is a very nice, grounded lad. It’s not his fault he has been labelled a “wonderkid” and talked-up far beyond his actual level of talent.

The problem is, that’s what drives me nuts. Take lads like McTominay, I’ll defend him to the hilt. Nobody is saying he is a “wonderkid” or the second coming of Paul Scholes but if ever he was talked down as “average” or “not Utd standard” I would defend him resolutely.

Also, I’m not one for slating players who just clearly aren’t that good. What is the point of hammering people like Lingard and Pereira over and over again? We know they are not Utd standard. The management know they are not Utd standard. They probably know it, so what’s the point in keep hammering them?

What really drives me to Frank Grimes level of craziness with Rashford is that when I watch him play, I see a very, very average player, yet seemingly half the country see “a world class talent”. You never hear Rashford criticised by pundits and if they do mention he “might not have been at his best”, an excuse is offered at the same time - “he has been played out of position”, “he looks tired”, “is he carrying an injury?”. These excuses then find their way into the subconscious of his advocates on this forum.

The excuses trotted out for the lad are incredible. There are still people claiming that the minor stress fracture he picked up in January 2020 is affecting him. There are people claiming it’s the fact he is playing on the right, despite the fact that that was his position for 10 years in the Academy. Last year, the excuse offered was that he was being played at CF...so what, I’m led to believe this “world class talent” can only successfully pass the ball five yards, control a football and make a decision if he very specifically plays on the left strip of grass and not the middle bit or the right bit?

I get that a player may be more effective left, right or centre...I would maybe accept a 10/15% drop-off but it shouldn’t be the case that he is absolutely hopeless if played marginally out of his “preferred” position. It’s not acceptable to not be able to do the basics.

Then, to compound matters, we get people talking about how his detractors are “only piping up when he has a bad game”...that’s absolutely rubbish. The lad has a bad game (with the odd “moment” here and there) probably 60/70% of the time. The rest of the country and the press continue to just mindlessly claim he is a “super player” or “world class” seemingly without actually watching him play football! Yesterday, I saw a Sky Sports article claiming that United’s run to the top of the table was a result of Bruno and also Rashford “going up another level”.

Then we get this “he is still learning” argument...OK, well please tell me, what is going to happen overnight that is going to drastically improve Rashford after 5/6 seasons of senior football and 20 years + being coached every day at Manchester United? Again, I posted elsewhere several times, players DON’T just get better with age as many seem to believe. It doesn’t just happen! Ronaldo improved because SAF and Queiroz where able to turn him from mega-talented show-off into a relentlessly effective machine. Rooney improved with age as he mellowed and stopped getting wound up and/or trying to win games on his own. These are two tangible ways in which players can improve with coaching and mental maturity. Please someone explain to me how at 23, Rashford is suddenly going to improve the basics, like passing, heading, decision-making etc...? See, with Rooney and Ronaldo, it was in them all along, it just needed to be coached. I don’t believe that level of talent (or anywhere near that level) is in Rashford so I just don’t see him improving that much throughout the rest of his career.

I mean, to continue on the Frank Grimes/Simpsons analogy, I feel like I’m losing my mind to the point I feel like I actually really don’t like a lad who by all accounts I should have nothing but support for!

We need to wake up and realise what Rashford is and get realistic. He’s a 20/30 minute impact player at best for a team with ambitions to win a title. That’s not based on the last few weeks, that’s based his mean performance across 250 senior games.

If we could achieve that and just stop banging on about “world class this” or “young and learning that” or “playing with injury blah” or “out of position” I can remain sane and stop wanting to put sharp objects through my eyeballs whilst watching him play!
Just my opinion, but I think his main issue is decision-making, especially in front of goal. At times a bit too selfish and taking on too many people when he shouldn't be, and at other times the opposite. More often than not attempting to blast the ball, when perhaps a more composed/placed effort would serve better. Lots of evidence of all this this season alone. Maybe I'll get some heat for this because of his goal contribution this season, but it's just an observation and my opinion.

And decision-making can and usually does improve with age/experience and coaching. His level of maturity off the field says a lot about his character, so I am fairly confident he can take this next step. His raw talent and ability is all there, I certainly wouldn't question that.
 

Kopral Jono

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Rashford was poor again last night, but to be fair to him I think he's carrying a niggle.
 

FrankDrebin

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Thinking back I have to say that was Rashford's worst ever game for the club. It was amazing in its ridiculousness.
 

UncleBob

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In the sense that he’s currently on the right because Ole is accommodating Martial on the left, who would offer even less on the right. Because Rashford is the more willing/pliant player, his game is suffering.
And when he's on the left but still equally shit?
 

manuchamp88

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It does, but footballers getting abused on social media keeps coming on the news and ex-footballers appearing on the news talking about it (like Clinton Morrison on Sky News right now) like it's a Premier League or English problem (ie this abuse is coming from someone within the UK).

I'm betting most of these racists are from people outside of the UK, possibly even trolls who aren't even United fans doing it on a purpose to Manchester United players (as United players are the ones who seem to have been targeted this week) to make the club look bad and its fanbase racist.

So as much as we try to tackle the problem within the UK (i.e. talk of ID being used to sign up to the likes of Facebook/Twitter), it's pointless unless this becomes universal throughout the world, for example a person in South America/Asia, can leave a comment to footballers on social media just as quick and easy as someone within the UK.

Rule changes and regulation needs to come from social media companies themselves, not any 1 government, that will never work.
Totally agree. And they know they can keep getting away it because British fans are the scapegoats. Such are the constraints of political correctness that the media running these stories don't bother looking into the background of the offenders for fear of...causing more offence. Talk about going round in circles and shooting oneself in the foot...
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
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Messages
10,274
And when he's on the left but still equally shit?
But he often isn't. Just watch his best games back for us and where most of his goals come from. Not the right.

How would Martial get on playing on the right? If anything it should be him playing over there when they are both starting as Rashford has actually produced goals for us this season.
 

Shane88

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Absolutely. I also think he looks quite sad in himself. I wonder is there personal problems. His lack of effort and energy is not like his former self. I hope he's not just buying into his hype and thinking he doesn't have to work hard anymore. It's a big problem when he plays now.
He's sulking because he's being shunted out to the right.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
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10,274
So you claim.
I don't have to claim. I have seen it. His stats for his age are very impressive.

He's out of form right now and also being made to play out of position.

Who are you wanting to replace him then if he's so crap? The rest are scoring less than he is you plank.
 

UncleBob

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I don't have to claim. I have seen it. His stats for his age are very impressive.

He's out of form right now and also being made to play out of position.

Who are you wanting to replace him then if he's so crap? The rest are scoring less than he is you plank.
:lol:
 

Doracle

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I think I missed a few of those moments in the game and yeah those screenshots at those moments don't really work in his favour do they? :lol:. Tbh I totally get your point, if there's one thing that lets his game down it's totally this. My point I guess is that, at least at times now, the prospect of picking out team-mates when he's in head down dribble mode seems to be entering his consciousness. I mean a couple of seasons ago it was beyond the pale and combined with the fact that when he was dribbling and making direct attacks he was also often very ineffective.

Now what we have is that on a good day he's a pretty devastating weapon. But on a bad day when that's not coming off his lack of team awareness can make him a bit of a hindrance.

He is a great passer but it tends to be when he and the ball are relatively stationary and he can look up and spot runners. He obviously needs to work on his team awareness when he is moving at pace with the ball.

People who are racially abusing him on social meeja can obviously feck right off.
If those are the best screenshots Uncle Bob can show of Rashford’s poor decision making then they don’t really help him much in all honesty.

1. There are many examples of Rashford passing to AWB on the overlap. Bob chooses the one time he attempts to use AWB as a decoy to criticise him. If anything, we need Marcus to be running more at defenders rather than less. Didn’t work out that time but nothing wrong with the attempt.

2. The second pair of freeze frames don’t suggest any error in judgement. The first makes it look as though he has two totally unmarked players on his inside. However, as the next shot shows, they are both marked. The correct play is to drive on with the ball, as he does, commit the left sided defender and then release it to Bruno on the right. Now, Marcus overran the ball here, which was very frustrating, but it wasn’t a poor decision.

3. He was clearly trying to create space for a shot here, which I think probably was the better call than slipping it into Martial. The final pass though was sloppy - as the picture shows it was an easy pass into our player.

In short, he’s making frustrating mistakes currently but I don’t necessarily see it as because of a lack of awareness. I’d very much like to see him only used as a left winger moving forwards, as that’s clearly by far his best position and, as he is also our best forward player, we shouldn’t be moving him around.
 

UncleBob

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If those are the best screenshots Uncle Bob can show of Rashford’s poor decision making then they don’t really help him much in all honesty.

1. There are many examples of Rashford passing to AWB on the overlap. Bob chooses the one time he attempts to use AWB as a decoy to criticise him. If anything, we need Marcus to be running more at defenders rather than less. Didn’t work out that time but nothing wrong with the attempt.

2. The second pair of freeze frames don’t suggest any error in judgement. The first makes it look as though he has two totally unmarked players on his inside. However, as the next shot shows, they are both marked. The correct play is to drive on with the ball, as he does, commit the left sided defender and then release it to Bruno on the right. Now, Marcus overran the ball here, which was very frustrating, but it wasn’t a poor decision.

3. He was clearly trying to create space for a shot here, which I think probably was the better call than slipping it into Martial. The final pass though was sloppy - as the picture shows it was an easy pass into our player.

In short, he’s making frustrating mistakes currently but I don’t necessarily see it as because of a lack of awareness. I’d very much like to see him only used as a left winger moving forwards, as that’s clearly by far his best position and, as he is also our best forward player, we shouldn’t be moving him around.
:lol: :lol:
 

Frank White

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The solution is easy, bench him.
Who do you replace him with? We're benching Martial because his input at the moment is non existent so he's a no go and the other options are Dan James, who's by this forums opinion a Championship player at best, Mata and a equally out of form Greenwood.
 

UncleBob

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Who do you replace him with? We're benching Martial because his input at the moment is non existent so he's a no go and the other options are Dan James, who's by this forums opinion a Championship player at best, Mata and a equally out of form Greenwood.
Change of formation. Stick Greenwood or Martial in a free role around Cavani, have Pogba in a more attacking role.
 

Drainy

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Does anybody remember the episode of The Simpsons when Frank “Grimey” Grimes starts working at the nuclear power plant and is driven crazy how inept Homer is and how his colleagues just seem to accept it, or not even notice?

I feel like Frank Grimes right now!

I don’t want to dislike Rashford. He’s a local lad, by all accounts he is a very nice, grounded lad. It’s not his fault he has been labelled a “wonderkid” and talked-up far beyond his actual level of talent.

The problem is, that’s what drives me nuts. Take lads like McTominay, I’ll defend him to the hilt. Nobody is saying he is a “wonderkid” or the second coming of Paul Scholes but if ever he was talked down as “average” or “not Utd standard” I would defend him resolutely.

Also, I’m not one for slating players who just clearly aren’t that good. What is the point of hammering people like Lingard and Pereira over and over again? We know they are not Utd standard. The management know they are not Utd standard. They probably know it, so what’s the point in keep hammering them?

What really drives me to Frank Grimes level of craziness with Rashford is that when I watch him play, I see a very, very average player, yet seemingly half the country see “a world class talent”. You never hear Rashford criticised by pundits and if they do mention he “might not have been at his best”, an excuse is offered at the same time - “he has been played out of position”, “he looks tired”, “is he carrying an injury?”. These excuses then find their way into the subconscious of his advocates on this forum.

The excuses trotted out for the lad are incredible. There are still people claiming that the minor stress fracture he picked up in January 2020 is affecting him. There are people claiming it’s the fact he is playing on the right, despite the fact that that was his position for 10 years in the Academy. Last year, the excuse offered was that he was being played at CF...so what, I’m led to believe this “world class talent” can only successfully pass the ball five yards, control a football and make a decision if he very specifically plays on the left strip of grass and not the middle bit or the right bit?

I get that a player may be more effective left, right or centre...I would maybe accept a 10/15% drop-off but it shouldn’t be the case that he is absolutely hopeless if played marginally out of his “preferred” position. It’s not acceptable to not be able to do the basics.

Then, to compound matters, we get people talking about how his detractors are “only piping up when he has a bad game”...that’s absolutely rubbish. The lad has a bad game (with the odd “moment” here and there) probably 60/70% of the time. The rest of the country and the press continue to just mindlessly claim he is a “super player” or “world class” seemingly without actually watching him play football! Yesterday, I saw a Sky Sports article claiming that United’s run to the top of the table was a result of Bruno and also Rashford “going up another level”.

Then we get this “he is still learning” argument...OK, well please tell me, what is going to happen overnight that is going to drastically improve Rashford after 5/6 seasons of senior football and 20 years + being coached every day at Manchester United? Again, I posted elsewhere several times, players DON’T just get better with age as many seem to believe. It doesn’t just happen! Ronaldo improved because SAF and Queiroz where able to turn him from mega-talented show-off into a relentlessly effective machine. Rooney improved with age as he mellowed and stopped getting wound up and/or trying to win games on his own. These are two tangible ways in which players can improve with coaching and mental maturity. Please someone explain to me how at 23, Rashford is suddenly going to improve the basics, like passing, heading, decision-making etc...? See, with Rooney and Ronaldo, it was in them all along, it just needed to be coached. I don’t believe that level of talent (or anywhere near that level) is in Rashford so I just don’t see him improving that much throughout the rest of his career.

I mean, to continue on the Frank Grimes/Simpsons analogy, I feel like I’m losing my mind to the point I feel like I actually really don’t like a lad who by all accounts I should have nothing but support for!

We need to wake up and realise what Rashford is and get realistic. He’s a 20/30 minute impact player at best for a team with ambitions to win a title. That’s not based on the last few weeks, that’s based his mean performance across 250 senior games.

If we could achieve that and just stop banging on about “world class this” or “young and learning that” or “playing with injury blah” or “out of position” I can remain sane and stop wanting to put sharp objects through my eyeballs whilst watching him play!
Zzz. Change the channel Marge.
 

Frank White

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Change of formation. Stick Greenwood or Martial in a free role around Cavani, have Pogba in a more attacking role.
Two players who have been worse? Martial can't hit a barn door atm and Greenwood although I love the kid has hardly hit the ground running.

Weird how you want two players in who are having a worse season than the one you want replacing, and a formation change as well to accommodate them. Sensing a bit of a agenda here Bobby.
 

UncleBob

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But his record this season and even last shows that to not be the case.
He's got 6 goals in the past 2 months, one of them being a complete fluke of a deflection against Wolves. During this period, he's had great matches against West Ham, Sheffield and then Liverpool in the FA cup. He's played 17 matches in this period. One goal the past month, one good performance, 9 matches. Not much reason for a skin graft on your penis.
 

UncleBob

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Two players who have been worse? Martial can't hit a barn door atm and Greenwood although I love the kid has hardly hit the ground running.

Weird how you want two players in who are having a worse season than the one you want replacing, and a formation change as well to accommodate them. Sensing a bit of a agenda here Bobby.
Play shit, get benched.
Not entirely sure why anyone would argue that Rashford deserves to start after his performance against Arsenal. If whoever starts ahead of him fails to deliver and Rashford does well as a sub, then bring him back into the starting lineup
 

roonster09

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Play shit, get benched.
Not entirely sure why anyone would argue that Rashford deserves to start after his performance against Arsenal. If whoever starts ahead of him fails to deliver and Rashford does well as a sub, then bring him back into the starting lineup
So who is going to start when Rashford is benched? Martial didn't play well when he started games and didn't play well when he came on as a sub. So he is ruled out. Greenwood didn't play well against Sheffield United as a starter and also didn't play well enough to start vs Arsenal.

So it's Daniel James time.
 

UncleBob

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So who is going to start when Rashford is benched? Martial didn't play well when he started games and didn't play well when he came on as a sub. So he is ruled out. Greenwood didn't play well against Sheffield United as a starter and also didn't play well enough to start vs Arsenal.

So it's Daniel James time.
Martial wasn't good, wasn't bad either, when he came on against Arsenal. Greenwood barely had time. Start either one of them, doesn't really matter who.

Rashford's performance against Arsenal was shockingly bad.
 

Frank White

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Play shit, get benched.
Not entirely sure why anyone would argue that Rashford deserves to start after his performance against Arsenal. If whoever starts ahead of him fails to deliver and Rashford does well as a sub, then bring him back into the starting lineup
Failing to see the point in benching players if you're just going to turn around and reward them for being "not good but not bad" Martial against Sheffield had arguably one of the worst performances in a United shirt for a long while, came on against Arsenal did nothing of note and now he should starting again?

If this is your criteria for being a starter then Rashford will be back playing next week because Martial has been dire all season and shown nothing to suggest he's improving.

All 3 need to step up big time because forget challenging for the league we'll be struggling for top 4 at this rate.
 

UncleBob

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Failing to see the point in benching players if you're just going to turn around and reward them for being "not good but not bad" Martial against Sheffield had arguably one of the worst performances in a United shirt for a long while, came on against Arsenal did nothing of note and now he should starting again?

If this is your criteria for being a starter then Rashford will be back playing next week because Martial has been dire all season and shown nothing to suggest he's improving.

All 3 need to step up big time because forget challenging for the league we'll be struggling for top 4 at this rate.
Think of it as more of a reaction to Rashfords performance against Arsenal, rather than a reward for someone else, and it's not like Rashford stood out with a positive performance against Sheffield either.

I've always maintained that i want Rashford to make better decisions with the ball, after his FA cup performance against Liverpool i hoped he was on the right path, with an excellent balance between selfishness and picking the right pass, but then it was back to 0 again. For me, it's baffling that a player prefers to hold on to the ball and attempt to go past en extra player instead of instantly setting up his teammates in a 2 vs 1 situation.
 

InspiRED

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It would be ironic if I were to get my knickers in a twist about the way Rashford is being described in this thread as a couple of seasons ago those roles were reversed where I was being deeply critical of him and there was a 'pro Rashford lobby' seemingly in force who tried to shut down any criticism of him at all at source like some kind of gestapo unit.

But I am gonna get my knickers in a right old twist :lol: Because it's beyond me how anyone can't see that when he's good he is pretty ridiculously good. Inconsistent - yes, but nothing like as inconsistent as he was a couple of seasons ago. Poor decision making - again the same. Work rate lacking? Yes but has he been told to be in lots of space for a possession turnover and counterattack? We don't know.

Nevertheless, 'hopelessly average', 'his most ridiculously bad performance in a Utd shirt'? Shirley you can't be serious? I remember his poor performances from a while back and they were so, so much worse. After Bruno, he is the main player (possibly with Pogba) responsible for us being near the top of the table right now.

He needs to improve his decision making which I agree can be maddening at times, but no way is he average. He does 'world class' things but he also does braindead things I agree. But average? No, no... just no ok :lol:. He has a remarkably high ceiling and at times his performances have been near the top of that room. It's got nothing to do with him being an academy product and saving Britain's starving children and everything to do with what my eyes tell my brain.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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Just play him on the fecking left it’s clearly his best position. I don’t understand Ole shunning him out to the right hand side just to accommodate Martial who’s been utter shite for the most part, makes even less sense when Rashford has easily been our most productive forward this season.
 
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