“United don’t even fancy it” - Carragher

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Zen86

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This isn’t a Disney film where believing it will make it happen, we were very obviously not quite there yet and the beginning of the season, and we’re not there yet now.

Maybe Carragher should focus more on how dogshit his own team have been.
 

Sandikan

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Haha exactly. right?

The players and the manager know we are not good enough, they know the defense/GK are not good enough. Just believing that you can do it will not magically make us better.
We're overachieving in 2nd.

We didn't invest enough in the summer.

If covid has eased it's way down by this summer, we all know what it'll take to get us properly competing.

If Bailly hasn't transformed himself into a reliable player - a fast centre back
Some sort of Matic upgrade
Proper right sided attacker.
 

Castia

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He’s spot on. We played pretty well, got ourselves in the mix and as soon as people labelled us contenders we completely bottled it.
 

MadMike

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This isn’t a Disney film where believing it will make it happen, we were very obviously not quite there yet and the beginning of the season, and we’re not there yet now.

Maybe Carragher should focus more on how dogshit his own team have been.
Sports psychology is not a Disney film either. Many teams that weren’t the best have won titles due to building and maintaining confidence and developing a ruthless streak. Character and attitude definitely matters in top level sport hence there’s a whole a field of science on how to improve on it.
 

Longshanks

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If we were to win the title this season it would be a hell of an achievement, I dont think it's anything to do with not fancying it I just dont think were quite there a few too many flaws in the team.

Bear in mind city have just won 11 on the bounce in the league, thats title winning form no doubt and despite that we are not out of it, city are in the driving seat and it's very much in there hands but we are still there hopefully ready to pounce on any dropped points.

If Mr Carragher wants to talk about bottle jobs than he should look closer to home where injuries and VAR are getting the blame.
 

Zen86

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Sports psychology is not a Disney film either. Many teams that weren’t the best have won titles due to building and maintaining confidence and developing a ruthless streak. Character and attitude definitely matters in top level sport hence there’s a whole a field of science on how to improve on it.
Yes it does, but City having a vastly superior squad and experience of winning the title, counts for just a bit more.
 

cyberman

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Sports psychology is not a Disney film either. Many teams that weren’t the best have won titles due to building and maintaining confidence and developing a ruthless streak. Character and attitude definitely matters in top level sport hence there’s a whole a field of science on how to improve on it.
I honestly believe character has gotten us this far with the amount of in game set backs we overcome.
People are in the weeds a little bit in this. We are in a bad stretch of form but it looks worse because City are still in the middle of their great run so we fall further behind with each slip up.
Its nothing to do with psychology, its lack of quality at the back that we have pointed to all season, long before the so called pressure of a title race kicked in.
We are up against a what, 18 win streak here? Thats all quality because City are an elite side
 

Mickeza

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I sort of get his point. We have the 2nd best squad in the league and I think worse first 11s than ours have won titles yet everyone just accepts because we haven’t got the perfect team yet we can’t possibly challenge. We were all happy to get a point at Anfield when in reality if this team actually believed in itself we’d have won that game pretty comfortably I think. They didn’t have any CBs and had Shaqiri in central midfield...We also play Pogba wide because we don’t trust our own ability to dominate games and play on the front foot. In saying all that we are still a long way off City so just believing we can win it wouldn’t be enough.
 

passing-wind

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Facts. This season will not be about what surnames we packed to accomplish XYZ. But rather that the club have missed the opportunities present. Carragher is absolutely correct the manager is not a driven winner in his current profession.
 

passing-wind

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Sports psychology is not a Disney film either. Many teams that weren’t the best have won titles due to building and maintaining confidence and developing a ruthless streak. Character and attitude definitely matters in top level sport hence there’s a whole a field of science on how to improve on it.
Absolutely but its not even limited to just sports but is this genuinely an aspect in life. Individuals who are driven, have high aspirations and have a focus will always excel and it's a contagious influence that's why when having an objective it's best to be around like-minded people collaboratively expounding the targets in reach of goals.

The moment Ole came out and disregarded the title is the moment we have conceded dropping points which have been winnable. The manager sets the expectation and we have a taken a broad direction rather than a specific one. Nothing but weak mentality.
 

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Facts. This season will not be about what surnames we packed to accomplish XYZ. But rather that the club have missed the opportunities present. Carragher is absolutely correct the manager is not a driven winner in his current profession.
What does Carragher know about winning the league?
 

Polar

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Don’t buy that shit from Carragher: “don’t even fancy it or just happy to be there”. Very easy thing to say impulsive , but certainly not something he had given much thought.

No reason to spin further on this issue. We have already started with so-called overanalysing...
 

Withnail

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Absolutely but its not even limited to just sports but is this genuinely an aspect in life. Individuals who are driven, have high aspirations and have a focus will always excel and it's a contagious influence that's why when having an objective it's best to be around like-minded people collaboratively expounding the targets in reach of goals.

The moment Ole came out and disregarded the title is the moment we have conceded dropping points which have been winnable. The manager sets the expectation and we have a taken a broad direction rather than a specific one. Nothing but weak mentality.
Come on, this is nonsense.

Which manager states their team is going to win the league at the halfway stage?

That would be an absolute disaster, would heap extra pressure on the team and turn every bad result into an even bigger story. It would be inept and naive in the extreme.
 

He'sRaldo

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Many of our fans were/are deluded tbh. We're not there yet for a proper title race
We're good enough to not throw away the points we've been throwing away. And before we threw away those points, everyone was in agreement that we were in a title race (especially those who wouldn't hear criticism of the team or manager).

It was just more pressure deflection from Ole, but he was a bit too eager and transparent this time and it's backfired.
 

passing-wind

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What does Carragher know about winning the league?
Neville and Keane have shared exactly the same sentiment. UCL, Treble, League winners. The context of who said it doesn't matter as the term states the proof is in the pudding and we have clearly taken our foot off the gas when we should have been hammering down our opportunities.
 

united_99

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Absolutely but its not even limited to just sports but is this genuinely an aspect in life. Individuals who are driven, have high aspirations and have a focus will always excel and it's a contagious influence that's why when having an objective it's best to be around like-minded people collaboratively expounding the targets in reach of goals.

The moment Ole came out and disregarded the title is the moment we have conceded dropping points which have been winnable. The manager sets the expectation and we have a taken a broad direction rather than a specific one. Nothing but weak mentality.
Yep! If only Ole had said we are title contenders.
Just like he said before the league cup semi that there are no excuses not to progress this time. And look what happened, we finally reached a final because of his words.
Oh wait ...
The fans can be frustrated and write all they want, but the owners set the targets and the timeline and they are clearly in favour of a rebuild over several seasons. Otherwise for once when there is a global pandemic affecting the club they might have decided to put some of “their own” money into the club instead of taking out dividends again.
But yeah let’s believe Carragher, after all he knows better than anyone else what it takes to win a Premier League title.
 

bsCallout

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It's nothing to do with bottle. We don't have a good enough first 11. City have won this league thanks to having a top GK, CB pair and CDM, our big weaknesses.

The only hope we have left is that they suffer bad injuries.
 

spiriticon

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Before last year, Liverpool haven't fancied it for the last 30 years. And they don't look like fancying it this year again after only just winning it last year.
 

Leftback99

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In all the seasons SAF didn't win the league he should have just said we're going to and that would have bridged the gap.
 

Plant0x84

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Because that was before the season started......

And it's all well and good and calling it clever media management... but you don't know whether it is clever media management. Is it clever management if a lot of our players go and take Ole's public (and/or private) words on this subject to heart and feel elated about the idea of finishing 3rd again, regardless of how shit a season Liverpool and City have? And that reflects on their performances and effort in the last few months of the season?

Yes every manager downplays title expectations, but Ole has gone beyond that with his comments and put the season in the context of "well we're just happy to show a little bit of progress".

Are we supposed to expect Ole and the squad to just magically switch into "title-contender" mode next season? Almost like we paradoxically 'arrive' as title challengers before we can believe we're title challengers? Because make no mistake we had better be competing for the league next season or we'll have wasted another 3 seasons and will have truly morphed into another pathetic top-four-is-a-trophy club with no ambition. We're not fecking Arsenal. Finishing in the top four in consecutive seasons is not a valid achievement.
Not just before the season. All along the narrative from the ‘experts‘ has been the scousers and City light years ahead of everybody, and now Liverpool are dropping away it’s suddenly City’s title to lose in a one horse race. Even when we were top of the league everybody was questioning if we were really in the race. Nobody questioned Leicester or Everton or Spurs when they were top, but rubbish old United must have fluked there way top. It’s really very dull now.

I personally would expect Ole to talk to his players, and not leave them to work stuff out from reading the papers. What he says in the changing room and what he says in front of the cameras are likely to be two very different things. Nothing wrong with a bit of expectation management. I’d also argue that the fluctuations in our season have more to do with circumstances (no preseason, relentless schedule etc...) than with anything Ole might say to the media.

The squad will become title contenders next season through hard work, great coaching, learning from good and bad experiences on the pitch, hopefully winning a cup this year and adding quality in the right areas in the summer. Nothing magic about it.
I don’t understand the obsession on here with Arsenal either. Top 4 is a guarantee of CL football. And a huge financial bonus btw, which is probably why Arsenal coveted it so much when they had a swanky new stadium to pay for! You clearly don’t go from finishing 6 to league and CL double overnight. Top 4 on a consistent basis is a stepping stone to bigger things, and a sensible target medium term.
 

Glorio

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Not sure what folks are whinging about. Ole has insisted that he wants us to take things game by games rather than have the players burdened by talk of a title race, and we'll see where we are in the last few games of a season. Surely that's a perfectly common sense approach with an inexperienced team.

In fact you could argue that the current bottling job is a direct consequence of said immature title noise, which Ole is trying (and sadly failing) to quell at the minute.
 

cyberman

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It's nothing to do with bottle. We don't have a good enough first 11. City have won this league thanks to having a top GK, CB pair and CDM, our big weaknesses.

The only hope we have left is that they suffer bad injuries.
Yep. They won this by signing Dias and transforming their defence. I feel we arent that far away if we find our own equivalent.
 

Red00012

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Feck him , but I’d like us to challenging next year with a good transfer window in the summer. We’re not as far behind as a lot on here think we are.
 

bsCallout

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Yep. They won this by signing Dias and transforming their defence. I feel we arent that far away if we find our own equivalent.
Just like Liverpool won with signing their CB & GK. I think we are that sort of signing away from being genuine challengers, that is thanks to Ole imo.
 

Devil may care

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I don't know as I do think Cavani and Bruno have changed our mentality, the defense and midfield balance isn't there though, I mean our latest stumble showed us dominate and then get the lead back after defensive feck ups which is an improvement but then we shot ourselves in the foot again with a defensive calamity.
 

BoltonWanderer

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From an outside perspective, United still lack quality to be this aggressive title hunting team that everyone wants to see. It's alright saying after a draw that they should have shown more intent to get the win but what if showing intent would result in a loss? I just don't think United are a complete enough team yet to play in that sort of way.

Ole has the right mentality, he's obviously influenced by Ferguson on many things, but the squad just isn't there yet. Give the starting 11 a world class CB, an addition in central midfield to help control big games, a better right winger and a world class striker and then we can talk about whether the mentality is right. Right now, United can't show that aggressive mentality because the team isn't good enough.

United at the moment are like asking a boxer without a great chin and without a knockout punch to start slugging with every opponent. It'll work sometimes but it'll fail badly too, and then when they get battered, nobody on here will be praising the intent.
 

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Neville and Keane have shared exactly the same sentiment. UCL, Treble, League winners. The context of who said it doesn't matter as the term states the proof is in the pudding and we have clearly taken our foot off the gas when we should have been hammering down our opportunities.
I think it's quite a shallow level of analysis to conclude we've taken our foot off the gas. What's this proof?
 

bosnian_red

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Feck him , but I’d like us to challenging next year with a good transfer window in the summer. We’re not as far behind as a lot on here think we are.
Yeah, we aren't far away at all. Our right wing is mediocre to decent because we have no natural right wingers, and then our defence and goalkeeper let's us down far too often. And it's not our fullbacks. It's the center backs. Our fullbacks are perfectly fine for whatever level we want to get to. Our center backs make far too many mistakes, and when they don't, our goalkeeper let's us down. Sort that trio out, sort out the right wing (Sancho or Diallo) and we'll challenge seriously, even with the midfield as is right now.
 

sullydnl

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Nah.

The things that cost us against Everton and Sheffield United are things we saw before there was title talk and things we will continue to see as City pull ahead. It had nothing to do with us bottling in and a lot to do with our then league position disguising evident cracks in the team.

For us to keep going we'd have had to actively improve our performances as what we were doing wasn't enough to keep a title challenge going. For example, the amount of times we fell behind and came back to get a result was entirely unsustainable.
 

SAFMUTD

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Bottom line is we are competing against teams like Liverpool and City. Liverpool has a similar squad than us but a better manager while City has a better squad and a better manager.

We need to improve on both to challenge, Ole is an average manager while those managers are special. We need better players but also a better manager.

I see two ways of beating City, we either outspend them big time and have a much superior squad which would require 500M at least. Or we hit gold with a manager who can make the players overperform to a level where we reach those heights. Since scenario 1 is highly unlikely I'd say we should go for the second one.

Ole is like that 15 goal a season striker, who's not bad but you need the 20 goals per season striker to win the league. Sadly I think this year was a golden opportunity for us to win the league, with all the covid situation. Most likely next season we'll be back to business as usual and City and Liverpool will be making 90+ points. Do you think Ole can take us there even with an improved squad?
 

Borys

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The fact he said that wouldn't bother me if it wasn't for Ole saying we're not in the race, which IMO is unacceptable. I would rather let the players know we're in the title race than set low expectations, even if winning it is very very unlikely with current squad.
 

macheda14

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The fact he said that wouldn't bother me if it wasn't for Ole saying we're not in the race, which IMO is unacceptable. I would rather let the players know we're in the title race than set low expectations, even if winning it is very very unlikely with current squad.
What Ole says in public vs private may be two entirely different things. If Ole says they’re going for the title it sets them up for failure and media criticism. He could easily be telling the boys in private that they have the talent and ability to do it if they pull their fingers out of their arses.
 

KennyBurner

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Much like I said I agree with Ole when he said we're not in it, I agree with Carragher as well that we don't fancy ourselves. The amount of silly mistakes and needless dropped points and below par performances we've seen in the last month or so, after we did all the hard work of going on that great run of form to even get in this position, you don't see that in a title winning team. We were supposed to keep going, not fall off without even a whimper.
Its the below par performances from our best players that does my head in. I consider martial one of our better players and even he cant muster the tenacity to win games on his own like he did after the restart. Then you have cowards like De gea who are a tax we have to pay every two games. Lets just finish strong and prepare well for next season because City has most likely won this one.
 

Borys

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What Ole says in public vs private may be two entirely different things. If Ole says they’re going for the title it sets them up for failure and media criticism. He could easily be telling the boys in private that they have the talent and ability to do it if they pull their fingers out of their arses.
Of course, but saying at least something like "the race isn't over" is a strong statement to all around. It has a psychological impact. Saying we're not is just weak and invites comments like this from Carragher.
 

Ludens the Red

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Ole is like that 15 goal a season striker, who's not bad but you need the 20 goals per season striker to win the league. Sadly I think this year was a golden opportunity for us to win the league, with all the covid situation. Most likely next season we'll be back to business as usual and City and Liverpool will be making 90+ points. Do you think Ole can take us there even with an improved squad?
This is obviously somethings that’s been said a lot by pundits and fans alike but it’s kind of a nonsense and a serious shifting of goalposts.
Man City are still on course to win the title with 80-90 points. Theyve got 50 points, they have 16 games left, you’d imagine at the very least they’ll get about ten wins.

Nobody in their right mind would have expected us to get 80 points or more. We got 66 last season. We didn’t do anything in the summer to make a 14-24 point improvement with our playing squad. So this sort of “this was Uniteds best chance” “they should have kicked on” is kinda crap tbf. It’s not Leicester of 2016 who’d just escaped relegation the year before, that we are chasing. It’s still Man City.
It’s the very definition of moving goalposts. There is no chance in hell this United team hit 80-85 points by May, it just isn’t happening and never was and that’s what is likely to be required to win the title.

When Carragher says shit like this it’s purely a way of throwing shade at us. Maybe to deflect attention from his teams embarrassing defence of a title.
 

SAFMUTD

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This is obviously somethings that’s been said a lot by pundits and fans alike but it’s kind of a nonsense and a serious moving shifting of goalposts.
Man City are still on course to win the title with 80-90 points. Theyve got 50 points, they have 16 games left, you’d imagine at the very least they’ll get about ten wins.

Nobody in their right mind would have expected us to get 80 points or more. We got 66 last season. We didn’t do anything in the summer to make a 14-24 point improvement with our playing squad. So this sort of “this was Uniteds best chance” “they should have kicked on” is kinda crap tbf. It’s not Leicester of 2016 who’d just escaped relegation the year before, that we are chasing. It’s still Man City.
It’s the very definition of moving goalposts. There is no chance in hell this United team hit 80-85 points by May, it just isn’t happening and that’s what is likely to be required to win the title.

When Carragher says shit like this it’s purely a way of throwing shade at us.
Thats the thing, its a golden opportunity because this year points required would be around 85. That's around 15 points less than the last 3 seasons. I agree we wont reach those points, not with this manager with this squad. But more certainly we wont reach 99 points heights with this manager, no matter which squad.

Thats the missed oportunity, we had to improve 20 points to win this year, next year it will be 35.
 

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Wish we could just fancy ourselves and get there. Doesn't work like that.
You need a deep squad. A very high quality one and everyone working like a perfect machine. That's what it takes to go toe to toe with others.
We aren't there. We will keep slipping and coming back. But it is not gonna happens just because we wish hard.

Yes, SAF had the ability to get the team to be much more than their abilities. But you don't get that kind of inspiring managers that easily.
 
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