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This has been a steady decline and a visible problem for 3 years now. New commanding keeper would fix a lot of things that are wrong with this defense.It hasn't been overnight, his decline has been pretty steady to be honest. Check out his stats for the last four years. (Ranking among first choice PL goalkeepers only, out of 20)
2017-2018 2018-2019 2019-2020 2020-2021 Shot Stopping (PSxG-GA) 2nd 8th 10th 15th Crosses collected 16th 17th 16th 19th Sweeping (coming out early) 14th 18th 17th 17th Errors leading to goals 0 4 (3rd most) 3 (3rd most) 1 (Joint 5th)
De Gea is still able to pull off outstanding saves that are good for YouTube and easy to talk about in post-match. Its similar for his mistakes, when they happen they tend to stand out. As a result, arguments about De Gea tend to focus on "this amazing save" vs "that terrible mistake" with fans minutely dissecting each to try and prove a point. In truth the occasional outstanding save or terrible howler are not the real issue.
Three or four mistakes a season might seem bad, but you can live with them if a goalkeeper is otherwise outstanding. Nick Pope for example has made more mistakes leading to goals than De Gea (2 vs 1). But Nick Pope is the best shot stopper, best cross taker and 2nd best sweeper in the country. Based on xG, he's saved Burnley 8 goals that De Gea would have conceded. So mistakes can be a red herring when looking at a goalie. The real issue is that his fundamentals have gone to pot. So far this season, De Gea is among the worst keepers in the league on the basics.
This hasn't happened overnight. All that's really happened is that the fans have kind of accepted that De Gea is world class from back when he was, so they only really question that when high profile mistakes come along. Then when a good performance comes along, they tend to think that the mistakes must have been a fluke and he's back to normal. Slowly though, fans have noticed that the high profile saves seem to happen less and less, and begun to look at his performances more closely. And when they've looked at those performances, they're realised there's a bigger problem there than just the odd howler or two.
I was going to say, he used to be amazing at 1-1s. Now gets beaten by them regularly with ease.Tweet
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Interesting thread from a more technical perspective.
It is definitely true that those Leipzig and Everton goals are the type of incidents where peak De Gea used to pull of reaction save with his feet but that specifically isn't happening as much any more.
Not sure it's entirely that straightforward.Sadly for him and us, he's only going to get worse with age. It's not a blip, he's continuously showing a downgrade in situations he used to excel at. It is what it is.
i gave up after ‘club legend’!!!!!I think we can all agree DDG is a club legend, albeit he deserves the vehement criticism that went his way after that Everton game. But that’s not what this thread is about.
De Gea was the best keeper in the PL and the entire world in 2017-18. He made a decent team come 2nd, when we hardly had any right going by our performances to even be top 4. We eventually got 81 points. He then started 2018-19 well and prevented us from being bottom half and Mourinho from getting sacked even earlier. He made one mistake only iirc, for the Mustafi header against Arsenal, and even in that game, made a sensational point-blank save from Aubameyang. His top performances culminated in one of his best ever games away to Spurs where he made 11 saves and single-handedly won us the game.
And right after that, the very sudden decline. The mysterious, strange overnight decline. Right after that, he became an average goalkeeper who wouldn’t get into any top side in the world. Reflexes got worse, less agile, worse distribution, more cowardly. From best in the world, to mid-table goalkeeper. Absolutely mystifying.
So, as per the thread title, can people come up with an explanation as to why, because I’m at a lost when thinking about it.
My first thought too. I think his last De Gea of old performance was that 0-1 win against Spurs at Wembley, and that was January 2019. Must've been a good 9 or 10 ridiculous saves that night.Overnight? It's been a fairly noticeable decline for a few years now and is at the point currently where I'd probably take at least 10 other PL goalkeepers ahead of him.
Fair points, not going to address it all, but he's gone through so many coaches with us already, and so many areas haven't improved, its quite odd. Not sure what it says about him, and our coaches.Not sure it's entirely that straightforward.
His reflexes will continue to slow, which is certainly part of the problem. But as per the thread I posted above, at least some of his issue is down to his technique being looser than it was previously.
The guy analysing it even specifically said in a previous tweet "I believe De Gea's 1v1 shot stopping numbers will soon increase as he keeps getting the decisions right he just needs to make sure his execution quality matches his decision quality."
I think saying he will inevitably continue to decline at the things he used to excel at is letting him off a bit too easily. I suspect he has it in him to at least arrest that decline by correcting technical issues. The question is if he will do so and how good a shot stopper he would then be with slowing reflexes but correct form.
He's probably done at United but with a change of scenery, new coaches and new motivation I could see him having a mini-resurgence elsewhere. Not back to his best but better than he currently is. Particularly so if he moved to a league/team where some of his weaknesses in terms of claiming crosses were exploited less.
Exactly this. He struggles when he has 1-2 saves to make in a game. He is a heavy metal keeper. He likes action!I think he is a player that does well when he has lots to do in a game. That was who we were under Jose, where he had to bail us out.
He underperforms when he is not involved for large parts and suddenly has to get active. Explains why he was never as good for Spain, even at his peak, as he was for United.
That wouldn't explain his first poor season in 18/19 though. Because of Mourinho's meddling in the defence and refusal to drop Matic in midfield, we were conceding plenty of shots.Just a thought, not sure if the stats will back it up but how often do we see keepers who are brilliant when playing for teams when they are kept busy but fill the team with no confidence when they come to a team where they are not kept busy all game. Just using us as an example, Foster and Kuszcak were immense at relegation teams, dreadful for us.
DDG was outstanding, and he developed whilst we were strong where we still dominated, I wonder if he has got so used to the constant impact on the game, through Moyes, LVG and Mourinho he was generally in the action a lot more than previously. We are slowly starting to dominate games again, against Sheff Utd, Everton he was in essence very quiet and not really involved and maybe he is falling into that trap of no longer having the concentration or the body reacting quickly enough or taking the right decision at the odd moment.
Course he is. He’s a title winner (only one in the squad) and gave us six world class years from 2012 to 2018, littered with club player of the year and PL team of the year awards. He devoted his best years to us when we were truly awful, despite him being a Spanish guy who could’ve easily moved to one of the 3 big sides in Spain.i gave up after ‘club legend’!!!!!
He is not!
Come on. Have you seen any of the goals Romero has let in?The worst part of it is, does anyone truly think that Romero would have done worse during this time than De Gea? No way he lets in the first goal v Sheffield United, and he would have made it a damn sight harder for DCL to score against Everton.
No. In 2018/19 everyone was predicting that he'd suffer a precipitous decline once his physical ability/reflexes began to dull and that, with the rest of his game unable to compensate, he'd be utterly useless by his mid-30s.Can he reinvent himself in his 30s?
I'm not convinced that Henderson is up to it long-term, but he should be given a shot for the remainder of the season. At least one of them should be replaced in the summer - nearly £500k per week on keepers is madness.Ever since his real move collapsed anyone can see his heart has not been in it. Time for Henderson to be given a run in the first team.
Is he really became this bad?It hasn't been overnight, his decline has been pretty steady to be honest. Check out his stats for the last four years. (Ranking among first choice PL goalkeepers only, out of 20)
2017-2018 2018-2019 2019-2020 2020-2021 Shot Stopping (PSxG-GA) 2nd 8th 10th 15th Crosses collected 16th 17th 16th 19th Sweeping (coming out early) 14th 18th 17th 17th Errors leading to goals 0 4 (3rd most) 3 (3rd most) 1 (Joint 5th)
De Gea is still able to pull off outstanding saves that are good for YouTube and easy to talk about in post-match. Its similar for his mistakes, when they happen they tend to stand out. As a result, arguments about De Gea tend to focus on "this amazing save" vs "that terrible mistake" with fans minutely dissecting each to try and prove a point. In truth the occasional outstanding save or terrible howler are not the real issue.
Three or four mistakes a season might seem bad, but you can live with them if a goalkeeper is otherwise outstanding. Nick Pope for example has made more mistakes leading to goals than De Gea (2 vs 1). But Nick Pope is the best shot stopper, best cross taker and 2nd best sweeper in the country. Based on xG, he's saved Burnley 8 goals that De Gea would have conceded. So mistakes can be a red herring when looking at a goalie. The real issue is that his fundamentals have gone to pot. So far this season, De Gea is among the worst keepers in the league on the basics.
This hasn't happened overnight. All that's really happened is that the fans have kind of accepted that De Gea is world class from back when he was, so they only really question that when high profile mistakes come along. Then when a good performance comes along, they tend to think that the mistakes must have been a fluke and he's back to normal. Slowly though, fans have noticed that the high profile saves seem to happen less and less, and begun to look at his performances more closely. And when they've looked at those performances, they're realised there's a bigger problem there than just the odd howler or two.
David De Gea is not a club legend.Course he is. He’s a title winner (only one in the squad) and gave us six world class years from 2012 to 2018, littered with club player of the year and PL team of the year awards. He devoted his best years to us when we were truly awful, despite him being a Spanish guy who could’ve easily moved to one of the 3 big sides in Spain.
Come on now, don’t let his recent poor performances make you think he’s not a legend.
To you, what constitutes a club legend? I’m not too sure if DDG isn’t one. No debate over Robbo, Sir Bobby, Keane, Scholes, but is someone like Phil Neville a legend to you? Rio? Vidic? Ronaldo?David De Gea is not a club legend.
being club player of the year is not a boast amongst the players he was competing with.
A lot of people forget he’d have gone in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for a faulty piece of equipment.
Just not a legend in my eyes. The term is used too often for my liking anyway. He definitely doesn’t deserve it.
I am not saying that Dave is not a better shot stopper than Romero, but tbh I can't think of anything he has saved recently that I don't think Romero would also have saved. Conversely I am convinced that some of the goals he has let in, that Romero would have either saved them or prevented them from happening in the first place. I also think Romero has got better distribution that De Gea although he has improved in that aspect.Come on. Have you seen any of the goals Romero has let in?
He doesn't make howlers and won't get the blame as he couldn't get there. But De Gea definitely would have made a lot of the saves.
Case in point is the last goal he conceded against Norwich last year. Dave saves that all day.
As for De Gea, as others have said his game always had deficiencies but his reflexes were supreme and bailed him out a lot.
It could be a number of things. The style of play definitely comes into it but even then he's lost some of his ability. He's no longer superhuman.
Even if he lost 5% of his speed and agility through age, suddenly he can't quite make the saves he used to and then his confidence takes a hit. His confidence in own abilities which was rock solid erodes and he starts to second guess himself, overthink things, gets his starting position wrong and it's a vicious cycle.
The high profile errors he's made could have also have given him the yips.
Who knows really but at this stage he's done as a top-level keeper I'm afraid. He's had long enough to turn it around and it isn't happening.
