[USREDEVIL]

I just don't see it with him. Reminds me of Cleverley, just vibing on the pitch, doing feck all.

Yeah cleverly. I was thinking the same, except Cleverly has a decent long range pass about him.

 

[No Spring Chicken]

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. If you actually watch City games and other top teams, you would know that simply moving well off ball isn't enough to get you in the team. He is a poor passer, struggles to keep possession, lack any real technical or physical element in his game. Do you really think Pep would be fine with a player simply just moving around? Either you don't know what you are looking at with David Silva, Bernardo Silva, Gundogan and KDB or you are vastly overrating VDB. He would be the end of this season by any top team.

I made no comment about how he would fit at City, just that the boring player we see now is not how he was at Ajax.

 

[Putting all banter aside]

it was blocked on the way to goal? anyway, at least he was in the right position and got in some nice space to find the cut back.

People like yourself just want to criticise him without even giving him a chance to settle. 1 game every month isn't enough for anybody to play to their full potential.

If we are so desperate to give they guy a feather in the cap that we're start clapping for a 'nice space to find the cut back' I'm starting to get quite pessimistic on his outlooks to succeed at Man United. 99 percent of the pessimism I read in this thread is completely justified by the way VDB plays since October. If you pay over 40 million for a player, you expect more than this.

 

[kundalini]

it was blocked on the way to goal? anyway, at least he was in the right position and got in some nice space to find the cut back.

Donny's shot was going wide when it was blocked. You can see on the replay 27:27. It is especially obvious if you draw a line from where it hits Donny's foot to the point of contact on the block.

If I was intelligent enough to post screenshots, I'd show you.

 

[Zhagzi]

I think it's easy to exaggerate how much of a counterattack team we are. We have now scored considerably more goals from established play this season than from counterattacks - 27 and 20 respectively by my informal reckoning, PL and CL only. If we look only at PL, it's 24-14. If you look at Bruno's non-set pieces goals, they're 5-3 (both competitions). Haven't checked his assists, but I'd be surprised if they don't tell the same story. The overall rough distribution is 40% established play, 30% counterattacks, 15% penalties, 10% other set pieces.

Actually, I don't see why Donny's ability to make good runs and nifty little plays around the box should not be an asset that fits very well with how this team plays. But we don't seem to have unlocked that yet. I've thought the same thing that many others have pointed out, that he's constantly making good runs, but his teammates don't seem to use them as much as they should.

Fair point with the difference between established play vs. counterattacks. However, I'd still say a fair amount of the non-counterattack goals have come from individual brilliance rather than actual team play, like we see City, Chelsea, Liverpool and a bunch of other non-top 6 teams do. I just fail to see how well Donny could fit in that mould, because as you say, I too have seen how awful little of the ball he sees when he makes those runs - which has been the argument for Jesse Lingard all these years (i.e. he's making good runs but is never picked out).

It often seems like we are looking for the definitive pass straight away, rather than play it around until opportunity arises (bar yesterday's game of course, cause that's the only thing we can do against a parked bus). It's clear as day how quick Donny's mind works. He always seem to know what to do with the ball before he receives it, and that should be leveraged much better than Ole and his team mates currently do.

 

[Theo Cherry]

He looks lost and completely out of place.

 

[Theo Cherry]

More like Donny van de Meek right now. Needs to wise up.

I do think he should be playing deeper in the Fred/Pogba role, he looks clueless in the hole.

Johnny Van De Weak!

 

[MetoTTT]

He looked exhausted when coming off.

Of course, nothing can replace the rhythm of playing on a regular basis. His confidence is so low. Hope he'll be given chance as a 8 next to Fred/McT and will be involved as much as possible (just like Telles etc) because we could need all these players this season.

 

[bondsname]

Had high hopes for him. From what I've read from people who watched when he played for Ajax, and my personal observation, my conclusion is he basically needs the ball to fall to his feet 6 yards from goal to score, and he is good at passing the ball with one touch. He requires the opposition to mark other players so he can sneak up from nowhere.

So he is not a 6, not a 8, not a 10, not a striker, he might be a centre forward? But not quite a centre-forward, a shadow striker maybe? A system-player? He isn't a creative player either. So far I have not liked what I’ve seen at all, maybe we aren’t playing to his strengths or whatever, but he has opted for the safer option instead of going for an obvious pass to could lead to a goal-scoring opportunity and is invisible most of the time. It's still his first season so it might just take a while for him to adjust and for us to adjust to him, but I expected more considering the transfer-fee. Hope to see him kick on soon. He does play those short-passes very well though.

 

[evil_geko]

 

[Yagami]

I knew he was rubbish, but I feel bad for comparing him to the likes of Fellaini and Kagawa now. Those two look like Iniesta compared to Donny.

I love how some try to pretend like we aren't playing to his strengths as if he has any strengths to play to.

I know what you mean.

I knew people would be making excuses for him so I'm not surprised. New signing and all that. Hopefully Ole's already seen he's not worth it and is planning to sell. I wish I knew what our scouts were thinking because it was so bloody obvious Donny was crap and yet we still wasted £40m on him. I was so relieved when it looked like Madrid were going to sign him unlike the feeling of jealousy when Barca got an actual talent in De Jong.

 

[Devil81]

Didn't post last night but have noticed people saying something similar to how I view him.

He's basically a carbon copy of Tom Cleverley, takes the easy option all the time and offers very little. I'm not having him to be fair and I'm starting to question if he offers anything more than Mata as a rotation option.

I'd rather Mata takes that shirt on the field in games where Fernandes is being rested.

 

[SeanyC]

He offers nothing that I can see so far other than he is everywhere on the pitch which is a good sign a guess but that’s it so far. I think he a long term replacement for Matic or Fred possibly. Based on the player he was at Ajax I hope he proves us all wrong, I really do but it’s a big IF than a When at the min.

 

[Plant0x84]

Can believe the crap I’m reading here. If the lad had played every game this season and was still playing this way then fair enough - but he’s played a few seconds here and there, he’s adjusting to a new country, new team mates and a new league with a different style of play. Have we learned nothing from Fred?
So many on here were drooling over his signing in the summer, and Ole seems to see something in this guy, and I trust the manager that he will come good given time, and a decent run In the side.

 

[Kyonn]

Feel like he’s being told to mimic Bruno which is not the kind of player he is. His best position is a right-footed number 8.

Totally agree about his position, the same is true with Pogba and LM. Thus the question becomes how do you for VDB into the team. I think the answer is at 6 instead of 10.

 

[shamans]

I knew he was rubbish, but I feel bad for comparing him to the likes of Fellaini and Kagawa now. Those two look like Iniesta compared to Donny.


I know what you mean.

I knew people would be making excuses for him so I'm not surprised. New signing and all that. Hopefully Ole's already seen he's not worth it and is planning to sell. I wish I knew what our scouts were thinking because it was so bloody obvious Donny was crap and yet we still wasted £40m on him. I was so relieved when it looked like Madrid were going to sign him unlike the feeling of jealousy when Barca got an actual talent in De Jong.

You knew crap then. He's a class player and needs time.

 

[shamans]

Can believe the crap I’m reading here. If the lad had played every game this season and was still playing this way then fair enough - but he’s played a few seconds here and there, he’s adjusting to a new country, new team mates and a new league with a different style of play. Have we learned nothing from Fred?
So many on here were drooling over his signing in the summer, and Ole seems to see something in this guy, and I trust the manager that he will come good given time, and a decent run In the side.

Pay no attention to it. It is unfortunate but these supporters exist amongst us.

The amount of games he's played is not nearly enough to judge a player, let alone one like Donny who has shown his class for club and country.

People genuinely think one of the most talent dutch players of this generation is only good at passing it sideways?

 

[Red Royal]

Would it be insulting to allow Donny to play in u23s (is he allowed?). Not as any ’punishment’ more as a confidence booster and to get his confidence up. If Amaad is along side him plus a few others who may make it in the future then may help create that chemistry. There is clearly a decent player in there, but he looks shot of confidence right now.

 

[Ballache]

I usually give players plenty of time before making a judgment. Issue with VDB is, I can tell he's a good player but he doesn't fit. Unless we drastically make changes to our tactics, he won't make it here.

 

[RuudTom83]

If what he is showing is a taste of how he wants to play, then you have to ask the scouts what they were thinking. His style is nothing like what Ole is looking for.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I usually give players plenty of time before making a judgment. Issue with VDB is, I can tell he's a good player but he doesn't fit. Unless we drastically make changes to our tactics, he won't make it here.

I think he's versatile enough to sit alongside Fred or McT when one of them needs a rest, at least he'd get on the ball. Everyone can see he's a decent player but people love to take sides and go overboard with criticism or praise - got to feel for him when his only start in ages comes against Moyes' 11 man parked bus as well. I still have hope, young guy, technically good and we know he's versatile - if he gets enough minutes I think he'll force his way into form.

 

[peridigm]

I usually give players plenty of time before making a judgment. Issue with VDB is, I can tell he's a good player but he doesn't fit. Unless we drastically make changes to our tactics, he won't make it here.

You can say the same about Fred when he first arrived. No idea if he was even wanted by Jose or was last on the list but it took him quite a while to start showing what he is capable of. He's not a long term solution by any means but he's a hell of a lot better under Ole than he was Jose. VDB could be the same. We know what he is capable of but just hasn't found his feet at United yet. Ole and the coaches see him every day and know what they're dealing with. We see him once every 5 matches if that and it's usually in an imbalanced squad that is heavily rotated for a cup match. I'll reserve my judgment for VDB until he gets a regular run of games. If that never happens, then I guess Ole deemed him not suited for United.
If only every player we bought hit the ground running like Bruno has we'd be very fortunate.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Donny's shot was going wide when it was blocked. You can see on the replay 27:27. It is especially obvious if you draw a line from where it hits Donny's foot to the point of contact on the block.

If I was intelligent enough to post screenshots, I'd show you.

OK, the point being was he got himself into a lovely pocket of space, and if the team gets there more often he will be getting on the end of chances.

He's a very similar player to Mata who people love on Redcafe so it's surprising to see some fans slag him off.

He finds space well in the box, he has a great touch/control and passes well and is always running off the ball which is a rarity for us.

He made so many forwards runs against West ham which was great to see, we just rarely picked them out. Matic tried a couple of times but either messed the pass up or did it too slowly.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

OK, the point being was he got himself into a lovely pocket of space, and if the team gets there more often he will be getting on the end of chances.

He's a very similar player to Mata who people love on Redcafe so it's surprising to see some fans slag him off.

He finds space well in the box, he has a great touch/control and passes well and is always running off the ball which is a rarity for us.

He made so many forwards runs against West ham which was great to see, we just rarely picked them out. Matic tried a couple of times but either messed the pass up or did it too slowly.

Yeah, I noticed that. His movement in and around the box good. Much better than two of our specialist forwards. The problem is when he’s picked he’s being asked to play in a position where’s supposed to be playing the sort of passes he likes to get on the end of. It’s very strange. Playing him ahead of two DMs will never work.

Play him with jusy one of Fred, Matic or McT along with Pogba or Bruno and we might start to get the best out of him. We’ve only done it once this season (I think?) against Istanbul at home and our attacking football was absolutely superb, with him at the centre of everything.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yeah, I noticed that. His movement in and around the box good. Much better than two of our specialist forwards. The problem is when he’s picked he’s being asked to play in a position where’s supposed to be playing the sort of passes he likes to get on the end of. It’s very strange. Playing him ahead of two DMs will never work.

Play him with jusy one of Fred, Matic or McT along with Pogba or Bruno and we might start to get the best out of him. We’ve only done it once this season (I think?) against Istanbul at home and our attacking football was absolutely superb, with him at the centre of everything.

Yep, he will only work as a 10 with a playmaker behind him. At Ajax he played with Frankie De Jong doing the playmaking, or Ziyech from wide. He never really needed to get involved in the build up, just made the final few touches or finish at the end of a move.

He could play that role with Pogba behind, but a midfield of Matic and Fred is never going to be creative enough to make up for it.

IMO he should be played in the team either as 1 of the 2 at the base of a 4-2-31 with licence to get forwards, or a 4-3-3.

He played this sort of role against Villa in our pre season friendly and looked really good, so I don't understand why it hasn't been tried more.

 

[Parma Dewol]

There's obviously a good player there, yet when you watch some of his clips from his Ajax days, he looks a totally different person. Seems terrified at the moment and it really shows on the pitch, there have been a few occasions where he's found himself in space with a chance to push forward, but fear seems to take over and he turns back to take the easier option. Can't remember which game it was now, but there was a moment where he received the ball on the right flank and we had an excellent chance to lead a counter (think he was one-on-one) and I couldn't believe it when he decided instead to hold up the ball and turn back.

Would be easy to call his performances cowardly, but I can only imagine how hard it must be for him mentally. He's got his career-defining move to one of the world's biggest clubs and it isn't working out as he'd dreamed. Worse still, the hole is getting deeper and deeper with each performance and he'll be well aware of the fact that there have been plenty of others with huge potential who have failed to make it happen on the Old Trafford stage.

Next time he takes to the field I'd love to see him try and take a game by the scruff of the neck. Some of his past highlights suggest that he has it in him to get stuck in, no matter where on the pitch he plays. Would love to see him win a sliding tackle or two, take a crack at goal from 25 yards, and generally be as busy as he possibly can. Even if he gets knackered, picks up a booking and nothing he tries comes off, I think a big uptick in effort and intensity would do him and us a lot of good.

 

[Bebestation]

Yeah, I noticed that. His movement in and around the box good. Much better than two of our specialist forwards. The problem is when he’s picked he’s being asked to play in a position where’s supposed to be playing the sort of passes he likes to get on the end of. It’s very strange. Playing him ahead of two DMs will never work.

Play him with jusy one of Fred, Matic or McT along with Pogba or Bruno and we might start to get the best out of him. We’ve only done it once this season (I think?) against Istanbul at home and our attacking football was absolutely superb, with him at the centre of everything.

This is why I think Ole says he is a player for next season.

Either we get a CDM that does deep playmaking capae of playing the ball in th AM like Bruno or VDB or we buy a ball winning midfielder that allows us to play 2 attacking CM/CAM like Pogba/Bruno or VDB/Bruno.

Matic is hardly playing these days and in the last game we played Fred next to him to provide defensive cover whilst his attacking ability is not great.

 

[romufc]

This is why I think Ole says he is a player for next season.

Either we get a CDM that does deep playmaking capae of playing the ball in th AM like Bruno or VDB or we buy a ball winning midfielder that allows us to play 2 attacking CM/CAM like Pogba/Bruno or VDB/Bruno.

Matic is hardly playing these days and in the last game we played Fred next to him to provide defensive cover whilst his attacking ability is not great.

It is clear we need a pre season to fit him in the team. He plays a complete different style to all our players.

Most of our players are very direct in their approach whereas Donny is different.

This is the reason why Ole is saying he will be better next season, players will trust passing the ball to him in tight areas.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

If you watch the game there were a few times he made a run inbehind when we had the ball deep in midfield and Fred didn’t try to find him. Held up his hand and apologised for not taking it on. Would have been a hard pass to execute even for Bruno and Pogba but no doubt Bruno would have tried it anyway and maybe Pogba would have although I feel like Pogba has been a lot more reserved recently in trying that sort of thing.

He makes good runs, and there were a few times when Martial dropped deep dragging the CB out and VDB automatically just went for the space created which was great to see as rarely does anyone do that sort of thing in our team.

 

[Bebestation]

It is clear we need a pre season to fit him in the team. He plays a complete different style to all our players.

Most of our players are very direct in their approach whereas Donny is different.

This is the reason why Ole is saying he will be better next season, players will trust passing the ball to him in tight areas.

I agree with this too. He needs to get on the tempo of his team mates and also I think he needs some players in the squad that allow him to play with Bruno Fernandes rather than instead of him.

 

[romufc]

I agree with this too. He needs to get on the tempo of his team mates and also I think he needs some players in the squad that allow him to play with Bruno Fernandes rather than instead of him.

I agree with that too. He cannot play with Rashford and the like because they dont tend to play that football. Bruno, Cavani, Mata are the sort of players he would play well with. He is constantly looking for one touch passes, give and go's, players making runs off the ball.

We have seen on occasions when him and Bruno play, they link up well, mainly because they have very good technical ability and vision.

 

[TsuWave]

Guy has hardly played any football. Probably low on confidence. Need to see him have a run.

I’m never too shocked when players that go a long time without playing end up looking poor in the far and few outings they have.

 

[croadyman]

This is why I think Ole says he is a player for next season.

Either we get a CDM that does deep playmaking capae of playing the ball in th AM like Bruno or VDB or we buy a ball winning midfielder that allows us to play 2 attacking CM/CAM like Pogba/Bruno or VDB/Bruno.

Matic is hardly playing these days and in the last game we played Fred next to him to provide defensive cover whilst his attacking ability is not great.

Which of those two types of midfield options do you think would fit us better

 

[Bebestation]

Which of those two types of midfield options do you think would fit us better

It's hard because it relies on multiple thing.

For example; if Ole believes that 4231 is the core formation of his tactics then I think he will go for a defensive based deep lying playmaker because he can then use players like Mctomminay or Fred next to him to win the ball. This is a bit like Carrick and Hargreaves. Fred or Mctomminay wont look out of depth when playing next to a defensive deep lying playmaker like Koopmeiners for example compared to when they play next to Pogba.

Now talking about Pogba is another important aspect. If he goes then we need another playmaker be that in Pogba's position as a CM or deeper as a CDM. I think that leads to a more deep lying maker if he leaves.

However if Pogba stays (or we get a playmaker at CM, Bruno drops deeper, VDB plays like he did vs the Turkish club, the use of Garner in first team) - then what we will get is most likely a ball winning midfielder like Rice.
This is also heavily reliant on if Ole is open to the idea of using a 433 instead of a 4231. I personally think 433 is the best formation in world football in terms of balance because you can play a ball winning midfielder, a playmaker and a chance creator in the same team (a bit like Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta).

What do I personally see? I feel like Pogba staying and Ole using a 433 is not realistic so maybe we will end up buying a deep lying playmaker.

However, Ole is also a person that clearly likes 2 players for each position that play in different styles - Shaw vs Telles, the link of trippier vs Wan Bissaka, the trying for a box poacher type striker like Haaland/Cavani whilst we have a false 9 type of striker in Martial, even arguably daniel James and Greenwood playing for the RW position in the first season.

I say that because this might just lead him to him wanting both a Ball winning midfielder and a deep lying playmaker since we arguably have neither now that Matic has aged and Ole is clearly a manager that wants to build the United Squad up to one with depth and versatility. Having 2 CDM of two different styles is arguably something that squads do have (de Jong and Busquets) so it could be targeted where we buy one this summer and another the following season.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Can't see him starting many more games this season.

Don't see him starting in the league as long as Bruno is fit. So it's Real Sociedad and depending on whether we get an easier FA cup draw.

Been such a disappointment for all parties. He can't be happy, Ole can't be and neither are the fans. I simply refuse to believe he was a guy Ole truly wanted.

 

[croadyman]

It's hard because it relies on multiple thing.

For example; if Ole believes that 4231 is the core formation of his tactics then I think he will go for a defensive based deep lying playmaker because he can then use players like Mctomminay or Fred next to him to win the ball. This is a bit like Carrick and Hargreaves. Fred or Mctomminay wont look out of depth when playing next to a defensive deep lying playmaker like Koopmeiners for example compared to when they play next to Pogba.

Now talking about Pogba is another important aspect. If he goes then we need another playmaker be that in Pogba's position as a CM or deeper as a CDM. I think that leads to a more deep lying maker if he leaves.

However if Pogba stays (or we get a playmaker at CM, Bruno drops deeper, VDB plays like he did vs the Turkish club, the use of Garner in first team) - then what we will get is most likely a ball winning midfielder like Rice.
This is also heavily reliant on if Ole is open to the idea of using a 433 instead of a 4231. I personally think 433 is the best formation in world football in terms of balance because you can play a ball winning midfielder, a playmaker and a chance creator in the same team (a bit like Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta).

What do I personally see? I feel like Pogba staying and Ole using a 433 is not realistic so maybe we will end up buying a deep lying playmaker.

However, Ole is also a person that clearly likes 2 players for each position that play in different styles - Shaw vs Telles, the link of trippier vs Wan Bissaka, the trying for a box poacher type striker like Haaland/Cavani whilst we have a false 9 type of striker in Martial, even arguably daniel James and Greenwood playing for the RW position in the first season.

I say that because this might just lead him to him wanting both a Ball winning midfielder and a deep lying playmaker since we arguably have neither now that Matic has aged and Ole is clearly a manager that wants to build the United Squad up to one with depth and versatility. Having 2 CDM of two different styles is arguably something that squads do have (de Jong and Busquets) so it could be targeted where we buy one this summer and another the following season.

Yeah signing two different styles of CDM across the next two windows could be something that Ole is considering and would certainly give us great depth in that area when Matic inevitably leaves

 

[croadyman]

Can't see him starting many more games this season.

Don't see him starting in the league as long as Bruno is fit. So it's Real Sociedad and depending on whether we get an easier FA cup draw.

Been such a disappointment for all parties. He can't be happy, Ole can't be and neither are the fans. I simply refuse to believe he was a guy Ole truly wanted.

Yeah Ole is probably thinking I should have just put up the money for Grealish

 

[jem]

I knew he was rubbish, but I feel bad for comparing him to the likes of Fellaini and Kagawa now. Those two look like Iniesta compared to Donny.


I know what you mean.

I knew people would be making excuses for him so I'm not surprised. New signing and all that. Hopefully Ole's already seen he's not worth it and is planning to sell. I wish I knew what our scouts were thinking because it was so bloody obvious Donny was crap and yet we still wasted £40m on him. I was so relieved when it looked like Madrid were going to sign him unlike the feeling of jealousy when Barca got an actual talent in De Jong.

Weren't you one of the ones who said Bruno wasn't very good?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Yeah Ole is probably thinking I should have just put up the money for Grealish

Ole doesn't put the money up for anyone. I'm convinced that's who he wanted and the owners wouldn't pay the asking price.

Now we are 'stuck' with a player our manager doesn't seem to rate that highly nor know how to use. The whole thing is a mess.

 

[Mcking]

Ole doesn't put the money up for anyone. I'm convinced that's who he wanted and the owners wouldn't pay the asking price.

Now we are 'stuck' with a player our manager doesn't seem to rate that highly nor know how to use. The whole thing is a mess.

It's got nothing to do with not knowing how to use him. He's got a player that just isn't very good, it is that simple.