[Bobcat]

We need a Carrick-type midfielder to provide stability to the team when we need to push against the low block sides with a counter threat.

Fred isn't the answer if the question isn't 'how will we press an opponent who will dominate the ball in midfield'

Prime Carrick would completely transform us imo. In games like these where Bruno and the front three struggle to create you need some creativity from CM. Fred gives none

 

[Zoo]

Fred wasn’t the problem today. Our misfiring forwards and Ole’s tactics were the issue.

 

[bosnian_red]

It's why Fred and McTominay, while both work really hard and are having really good seasons, will ultimately end up being replaced from the starting 11. Neither offer enough on the ball or are quite good enough defensive or controlling the game. Both strong all around, neither quite good enough at anything to be more than a squad player at a truly top club. They're like Fletcher and Park under Sir Alex. Bar that one season of Fletcher being a starter, both were squad players for a long time. That's McTominay and Fred.

 

[Litch]

I’m taking a break from this thread until after the match and we can all chat about how he’s absolutely the main reason we only scraped past West Brom and how a top team has box to box players that are constantly creative. Nothing to do with the fact our forwards look like a bunch of strangers having a kick about most weeks.

Well we didn't even do that. Football is about opinions I guess but every forum needs a scapegoat. There are better no doubt but be careful what you wish for as the issues of this team would not be resolved with prime Carrick type either. People talk about Pogs but for 80% of his time here, they wanted him sold. There's some irony as prime Carrick couldn't even get into the England team and I'm old enough to remember the negative from Utd fans towards him. I'm amazed on how people rewrite history. Also look at the teams Carrick played in, there is no current player that would be in that starting 11....

 

[Litch]

Prime Carrick would completely transform us imo. In games like these where Bruno and the front three struggle to create you need some creativity from CM. Fred gives none

Prime Carrick....who was in that side he played with and how many would this current group be in the starting 11.....?

 

[Bwuk]

Well we didn't even do that. Football is about opinions I guess but every forum needs a scapegoat. There are better no doubt but be careful what you wish for as the issues of this team would not be resolved with prime Carrick type either. People talk about Pogs but for 80% of his time here, they wanted him sold. There's some irony as prime Carrick couldn't even get into the England team and I'm old enough to remember the negative from Utd fans towards him. I'm amazed on how people rewrite history. Also look at the teams Carrick played in, there is no current player that would be in that starting 11....

Prime Carrick was the only mainstay in our midfield in our most dominant time in football ever. He’d be our best midfielder by some distance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Fred wasn’t the problem today. Our misfiring forwards and Ole’s tactics were the issue.

It’s amazing how everyone can’t see this. Take any team in the league and stick Martial and Rashford up top and look how badly they would struggle. We’re not even getting mid-table winger performances out of them.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Where are the posts about his pass completion stats?

 

[Bwuk]

It’s amazing how everyone can’t see this. Take any team in the league and stick Martial and Rashford up top and look how badly they would struggle. We’re not even getting mid-table winger performances out of them.

Don’t agree and I think Fred is a big issue in the side, but I agree about Martial/Rashford.

Some comedown for Cavani, Neymar and Mbappe to this.

 

[AgentSmith]

Prime Carrick....who was in that side he played with and how many would this current group be in the starting 11.....?

Why would who Carrick played with make a difference to his ability to contribute to this current team?

Stevie Wonder could see the balance and poise Carrick would provide to our midfield and, by extension, the team in general. He’d be invaluable.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Fred is at best ordinary and on most occasions is completely uninspiring. He runs his backside off but has very little to show for most of the time he is on the pitch. His goal /assist figures are abysmal and passing is poor unless going sideways/backwards. If this is the position we are in for a consistent midfield starter we are going to struggle. Most of what he does I could do except put in such an effort, however I am nearly fifty years older.

 

[Ali Dia]

So in a match where once again our best paid attackers in the league play like Sunday league players on trial its our midfield that takes the flack. It’s not even the managers fault at this stage. Who else does he have? Fred is better on the ball and McT is more of a goal threat so we left him on but they had feck all for doing. We loosely controlled the midfield for the most part. Fred coming off was a tactical switch to put on another more attacking player to help the other 6, 7 if you count Maguire who stayed forward all game and spent more time in their half of the pitch than ours. We didn’t play any better with him off the pitch and we were much more susceptible on the counter. Just the usual bluster from our attack that inevitably goes nowhere because Rashford and Martial kill promising moves for fun. It’s our attack that needs to learn how to provide for each other and stop making the same mistakes over and over again. I think it was a game for Pogba as they gave up the midfield and he might have rifled one in but the edge of their box was so congested because our strikers/wingers are just standing around hands on hips waiting for something to happen

 

[Litch]

It’s amazing how everyone can’t see this. Take any team in the league and stick Martial and Rashford up top and look how badly they would struggle. We’re not even getting mid-table winger performances out of them.

Agree. Like said some players are like Teflon whilst others people are forensic in how we look at their performances. We want our DM's to do things that not really associated with the role yet like being creative (how many of the best DM's score goals or assists in the Europe) yet the players that are suppose to be delivering that, clearly are not...

 

[Litch]

Why would who Carrick played with make a difference to his ability to contribute to this current team?

Stevie Wonder could see the balance and poise Carrick would provide to our midfield and, by extension, the team in general. He’d be invaluable.

Your answer says it all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Agree. Like said some players are like Teflon whilst others people are forensic in how we look at their performances. We want our DM's to do things that not really associated with the role yet like being creative (how many of the best DM's score goals or assists in the Europe) yet the players that are suppose to be delivering that, clearly are not...

As per the stats in this thread, Fred is a hell of a lot more creative than the average DM. He’s not going to unpick a packed defence in a game like today though. That’s not his job. The problems were all ahead of him.

 

[Ali Dia]

Well we didn't even do that. Football is about opinions I guess but every forum needs a scapegoat. There are better no doubt but be careful what you wish for as the issues of this team would not be resolved with prime Carrick type either. People talk about Pogs but for 80% of his time here, they wanted him sold. There's some irony as prime Carrick couldn't even get into the England team and I'm old enough to remember the negative from Utd fans towards him. I'm amazed on how people rewrite history. Also look at the teams Carrick played in, there is no current player that would be in that starting 11....

thats what I’ve been saying. Isn’t Pogba the world class creative player that everyone is crying out for? How come it doesn’t work with him in the team then beyond the odd goal? He doesn’t work hard enough and when he’s at his best attacking he’s supplying the most predictable group of forwards I can see on those kind of wages. He doesn’t really help in the buildup because he’s too slow and not aggressive enough.

 

[Ali Dia]

As per the stats in this thread, Fred is a hell of a lot more creative than the average DM. He’s not going to unpick a packed defence in a game like today though. That’s not his job. The problems were all ahead of him.

if you read the last few pages in here you can’t convince people otherwise.

 

[Litch]

thats what I’ve been saying. Isn’t Pogba the world class creative player that everyone is crying out for? How come it doesn’t work with him in the team then beyond the odd goal? He doesn’t work hard enough and when he’s at his best attacking he’s supplying the most predictable group of forwards I can see on those kind of wages. He doesn’t really help in the buildup because he’s too slow and not aggressive enough.

Completely agree. Honestly the DM that people want does not exist. They see other DM's in the league or previous player like Carrick and forget the players that were around them that are world class in their own right. E.g. If you have Rio and Vidic behind you, the role is completely different.

 

[Bobcat]

Prime Carrick....who was in that side he played with and how many would this current group be in the starting 11.....?

Very few i reckon, but still does not change the fact that a quality deep lying playmaker would add another dimension to our play

 

[AgentSmith]

Your answer says it all.

I understand the idea that Carrick’s perceived weaknesses may have been masked by playing with a world-class Rio and Vidic pairing behind him. Doesn’t explain his form in Fergie’s last season though.

Carrick’s ability with the ball from deep and his positioning without it would help the team in both directions. It would also free us from the limited McFred pivot allowing one or the other to play their more natural box-to-box role more effectively.

 

[Litch]

Very few i reckon, but still does not change the fact that a quality deep lying playmaker would add another dimension to our play

It would but my point remains the same. The quality of those in front would make any DM look bad at moment.

 

[Litch]

I understand the idea that Carrick’s perceived weaknesses may have been masked by playing with a world-class Rio and Vidic pairing behind him. Doesn’t explain his form in Fergie’s last season though.

Carrick’s ability with the ball from deep and his positioning without it would help the team in both directions. It would also free us from the limited McFred pivot allowing one or the other to play their more natural box-to-box role more effectively.

Not saying he wasn't good, just it's different even with the players in Fergies last season. We are focusing on the wrong issues, Fred and Scott have not cost us games, and it's those with higher ceilings to win them.

 

[stevoc]

Fred and McTominay shouldn't be playing against teams like West Brom. No need for both of them, i would have went with McTominay today and gave Fred a rest.

 

[acnumber9]

He’s not a DM. Watch him actually trying to defend in defensive areas. Winning the ball high up the pitch is one thing but he constantly lets players run off him because he’s fixated on the ball.

 

[Bristol_Red_87]

As per the stats in this thread, Fred is a hell of a lot more creative than the average DM. He’s not going to unpick a packed defence in a game like today though. That’s not his job. The problems were all ahead of him.

My question would be, what was he picked for? We had 73% possession, so if he's not expected to or is unable to contribute to the attacking third, was he required in the first instance?

Horses for courses. Going was Good/Firm today, not Heavy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

My question would be, what was he picked for? We had 73% possession, so if he's not expected to or is unable to contribute to the attacking third, was he required in the first instance?

Horses for courses. Going was Good/Firm today, not Heavy.

His presence is always a big factor in us dominating possession the way we did today. With 73% possession he certainly can’t be blamed for the players that were supposed to focus exclusively on creating/scoring goals failing to create a single decent chance in 90 minutes against the worst defence in the league.

 

[MadDogg]

While I'm probably considered a Fred fan on here, that was his worst match this season and probably his worst since his horror first season. His passing was off, his defending was off, nothing was really working for him. The front three not making themselves available and Bruno's atrocious first half certainly didn't help but he still has to do better. That moment he was covering Lindelof's position while Lindelof took the ball forward then he decided to just leave that position wide open to attempt to press the West Brom player nowhere near him...he was extremely lucky it didn't cost us a goal.

His general form has been declining over the last month or two (even though he's been increasing the amount of chances created) but hopefully this will be the worst he gets. With Pogba out for at least a few weeks we really can't afford Fred to drop off too much at the same time.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No, I think he's a good player just not a great one and not one of our best.

A player who doesnt have any area where he's outstanding other than with hardwork and being active all the time. And so when it comes to passes, tackles, etc. the accumulation is going to add up to some high numbers. But so are things like the amount of times a player dribbles past him, or the amount of times he has a loose touch or misplacing a routine pass. He's doing a bit better statistically in that regard recently so thats good.

Agree. It's a problem with Fred, Mctominay and of course them as a duo. A lot of effort and running but a lack of genuine excellence in a any particular area. Fred can produce peformances where his technical game is pretty good but it's not his greatest strength, and Mctominay is technically poor but physically imposing and had decent shooting. All in all, in terms of passing, technical ability, defending, playmaking, dribbling, vision etc neither are particularly great at any of those which makes it a work horse couple in midfield, which isn't enough for Manchester United.

But I do prefer Fred out of the two. He's an actually CM unlike like the others we have. Given its too expensive to buy two quality midfielders I'd sign one and partner him with Fred with Mctominay/Matic as backup.

 

[kouroux]

Good player to have in the squad but in order to seriously and consistently improve as a team, Fred cannot be a regular starter. No way he's good enough for that

 

[Annihilate Now!]

That chance that WBA had where Maitland Niles and Diangana had a 2 vs 1 with Maguire (and should have done a lot better...) what on earth was Fred doing? Maybe I remember it wrong, but I swear he like, was in a position to pick up AMN and instead just ran into the centre of pitch?

Like I said, I might well be remembering it wrong... @GifLord can you dig it out for me? Was around 71/72 minutes... Think the best angle of it was in the replay

 

[#07]

The issue with Fred is we spent £50m on him when it wasn't necessary. If we had renewed Ander Herrera's contract immediately after Stockholm we could've saved that money and kept the superior player. Fred is a decent, all round midfielder. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact he's one of our most expensive signings ever is shocking. Had we put the money we spent on Fred towards getting a top quality centre back or defensive midfield specialist we'd be much better off.

 

[Falcow]

Where are the posts about his pass completion stats?

Did you not try to prove to me last week that passing stats are useless? I'm surprised therefore that you are now wondering what the stats are from yesterday.......

Seeing as how you asked however
Fred passes 81, completion rate 87%
Scott, passes 67(way less despite playing full 90) completion 90%
Bruno 84 passes completion rate 76%.

Far from Fred's best game yesterday but at least he wasnt anyonymous like some, Martial and Cavani I'm looking at both of you.

I though Bruno's performance was awful as he is meant to be our creative guy but we created zero and goal aside he was awful yet again. As Pogue said above, the problem yesterday was our three forwards, they were shocking to a man. Cavani had 16 passes with 66% completion rate, that's beyond pathetic in fairness.

Anyway, I thought Fred was poor yesterday but equally as poor as everyone else and nowhere near as poor as our front three.

 

[Falcow]

His presence is always a big factor in us dominating possession the way we did today. With 73% possession he certainly can’t be blamed for the players that were supposed to focus exclusively on creating/scoring goals failing to create a single decent chance in 90 minutes against the worst defence in the league.

Exactly this. He wasn't great yesterday but the fact we dominated possession would point to our midfielders doing a decent job and our forwards doing nothing with it.

Dan James should be getting a run these days, cant be as bad as the three up front yesterday.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Absolute stupidity to blame fred again after a game like this. You have Bruno who is absolutely abysmal, gives the ball away all the fecking time, ruining every attack, setting up counter for the opposition with every touch and we blame Fred? Fred is a CDM/ the most defensive DM in our team, he mops around wins the ball for us and keep the ball going. That he´s done really well, everything extra is nice he tried but Mctominay did nothing defensively because is positioning is suspect and really did nothing going forward, what Solskjaer quite clearly expects form him. And rightly so Scott has a gift of scoring goals but he was timid and did nothing.

Fred is the first man to press and last man of the defence to clear the dangeour, if you guys dont understand that, please give up writing shite on this forum, it´s annyoing. FFS Carrick instead of Carrick, maybe he would help but Carrick is not a defensive player, do you guys even remember? He usually played in 5 men midfield and 90% of times in the shade of aging Scholes. In Fletcher he had an absolute workhorse of a player who who tackled intercepted etc. that´s more fred, and that kind of player we don´t have. Whenevr we play Matic, MCtominay, Pogba in midfield we are very suspect defensively and too slow to win the ball, the cmobination is too slow.. I don´t know what else to say.

He hasn´t done wrong yesterday, few miplaced passes and people are crazy, but why don´t you blame Bruno for being absolute shite latelyor Martial for doing nothing while being lazy, or Rashford being out of form, or Solskjaer when he cant set his team to consistently create chances and win against one of the most horrible team in the laegue? Weve controlled the game, only conceded because of feckign Lindelof leaking goalsfor fun.

 

[Kostov]

He’s not a DM. Watch him actually trying to defend in defensive areas. Winning the ball high up the pitch is one thing but he constantly lets players run off him because he’s fixated on the ball.

This.

 

[Jeppers7]

He runs a lot...but everything else he does is bang average....some of our fans sure do love a runner.

 

[simplyared]

Typical Fred performance. Question remains. Is it good enough?

 

[ostentatious]

He runs a lot...but everything else he does is bang average....some of our fans sure do love a runner.

Have you gone through this thread? https://www.redcafe.net/threads/midfield-creativity-stats-and-comparisons.460870/
Fred could be more than just a runner.

 

[R'hllor]

We need Fred more in shooting positions

 

[peridigm]

Typical Fred performance. Question remains. Is it good enough?

Just like most of our CM options over the past decade. A stop gap until we find the right one.