Why the heck #OLEOUT is trending again?

[elmo]

But if we look away from the youngsters and the back up players (James, Telles) 4/5 of his signings have played very regularly and have been one of our more consistent performers. There is this myth going around on here that Maguire is a bad fit because he lacks pace, which is just rubbish imo. The most important attributes for a CB in a high line is strength, positioning and aerial dominance. Pace is nice, but if your CB's constantly end up in footraces with strikers who weigh 30 punds less than them, you are going to be in a lot of trouble. AWB is not the best offensive fullback in the world, but hes still only 23 and has plenty of room for growth. Brunos stats speak for themselves

Our recent bad run, the biggest culprits (according to the caf) have been DDG, Lindelof, Martial and Rashford. All of them was banged on to be in our "best XI" last year but have been pretty diabolocal lately and none of them signed by Ole.

DDG has regressed badly since his peak season in 17/18 and is now costing us points rather than gaining us. Lindelof is just not that talented and a bad fit for such a physical league. Martial? Who the feck knows whats up with him.

Also the claim that he should be "getting more out of x player" is based on what? Rashford and Martial right now can for sure do much better, but what other players have a higher ceiiling that Ole cant unlock? Van der Beek?

So Ole's job is just go put out the starting eleven and subs now? Because I could swear player development is part of the manager's role and he's failed big time in it with most of the squad stagnating since Ole got here.

Under Ole's stint so far, only Bruno and Shaw can be considered playing well and up to the level that we should be targeting for. Everyone else has been either short of the quality needed or just inconsistent. It's on Ole and his coaching staff to figure a way out to fix this but it's been 2 years plus and we're still seeing the same shit.

 

[lysglimt]

So only another £200-300m required? What a manager we have! He's already got one £90m CB and multiple other to choose from. He decided to get rid of Smalling who was part of one of the best defences in the league not long ago.

To be honest I'm not even convinced signing those players would make us compete. There's just something fundamentally wrong with us. We should be getting better performances from the current team, instead we see slow sideways passing at the back and a lack of ideas in attack, where we have Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Van de Beek, Cavani etc. It's an absolute joke to be honest how people want to downplay the players we have now. I'd be expecting him to show something more with what we have before letting him pump another quarter billion into the team.

As I wrote in another post - we can easily get £50-60 million by selling players we dont need - and players like Sancho, Haaland and Konate to mention 3 - would not cost more than £250 million combined (probably less) - and then we have 3 of the biggest talents in the world in 3 positions. As for Smalling - he is a good defender but he is awful with the ball at his feet, and with Smalling in the team we could forget about playing the ball out from the back.

 

[wolvored]

He’s already been here a lot longer than many people wanted. The sooner the people who want him sacked wake up and realise that they don’t set the bar, they don’t make the calls, they don’t have influence, the happier we’ll all be. CL qualification every year will be enough for our board. If you don’t think so, keep on dreaming yourself.

Sadly that is true.

 

[pocco]

It is always hard to qualify for CL. COVID is not specific to a few teams and I’m pretty sure the use of COVID as an excuse would get laughed out of town. Injuries can affect anyone at any time.

If we do fail to qualify for CL I wouldn’t be surprised if Ole is sacked. The point is, he won’t be sacked for not winning the league or for losing to relegation fodder or not having patterns of play or not being the bastard child of Klopp and Pep’s mother.

He won’t be sacked for not maintaining the high standards of this once great club and presiding over a continuing lowering of expectations.

He won’t be sacked because some berk on the Caf thinks he’s a fraud, or for his demeanour, his in-game management, team selections, failure to develop players, lack of any distinguishable trait in common with “top” managers.

He’ll be sacked if he doesn’t win enough games to qualify for CL (as he should be).

Basically, he can be as crap as he wants but if he achieves top 4 then he's safe? That's what you're saying? Are you happy with that? We're officially the new Arsenal if you are proven to be right.

 

[hobbers]

Basically, he can be as crap as he wants but if he achieves top 4 then he's safe? That's what you're saying? Are you happy with that? We're officially the new Arsenal if you are proven to be right.

He's definitely right about that.

The whole club ethos has changed because the Glazers and Woodward realise that the fanbase is placid enough to be satisfied as perennial top four finishers, now that there's a "friendly-faced legend who loves and gets the club" buffer between the fans and them.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

Klopp owe's his job to VVD it seems then.

You could argue he relies on Mane/Salah too.

This narrative that Ole relies on Bruno is a joke. He has improved the whole team and that is clear to see. Shaw, McTominay, Rashford (he's in poor form atm though), Fred have all improved under Ole. To say he cannot coach is preposterous.

No, the narrative that Ole is the same level of manager as Klopp is a joke.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

We have only lost 4 of our last 38 games.

Those 38 games would total 88-points.

We haven't been beaten away from home in 13-months.

We are second in the current league; only behind a team that has been together for years and is settled and mature.

We have the youngest squad out of the "top six" by a full 2 years. We have the second youngest squad in the whole league.

We have signed - in the past 18-months - the hottest young teens from all around the world; from Italy, from Real Madrid, from Barcelona, from South America etc...

Our three strikers (av, age 22) were the best performing strikers in the whole of the Premier League last season.

We are ahead of schedule 2.5 years into a 5 year plan.

...but eh.. yeah, we only drew away to West Brom on Sunday... so eh... better sack the manager and start all over again....

 

[hobbers]

This narrative that Ole relies on Bruno is a joke. He has improved the whole team and that is clear to see. Shaw, McTominay, Rashford (he's in poor form atm though), Fred have all improved under Ole. To say he cannot coach is preposterous.

Except for the defence the keeper and the forwards, sure.


The forwards he's supposedly mentoring are all getting worse, not better. Rashford hasn't improved his goal scoring instincts at all under Ole, bafflingly. Martial has regressed wildly. James hasn't taken his chances.

Fred hasn't improved, he's the same player he was before we signed him, his confidence took a massive hit because he was forced on Mourinho and basically sat out for 6 months. McTominay has marginally improved from under Mourinho in line with expectation of any midfielder at that age. Really what's happened is a consequence of giving them lots of game time to show their level. Which isn't actually good enough to be starting for United. Ole would claim that VdB was a signing he wanted to make but he certainly isn't treating him like that, if anything he's been harsher on him than Mourinho was on Fred.

 

[Red Shorts]

Don’t be daft, he’s got one more year on his current contract and that’s got nothing to do with proving anything. I dare say he will get a new better contract at the end of this season anyway.

As for elevating the team, he already did that but it is a side issue. Qualification for the CL will keep him here, most people realise that.

Well I may be a daft person because I have an opinion you dont agree with (bit harsh if you ask me), but lets see where we are a year from now. It would be great if we can keep a manager for more than 3 years, but I dont see the board being happy if hes scraping top 4 and nowhere near a trophy

 

[OrcaFat]

Basically, he can be as crap as he wants but if he achieves top 4 then he's safe? That's what you're saying? Are you happy with that? We're officially the new Arsenal if you are proven to be right.

We’ll if he’s “as crap as he wants” he won’t achieve top 4, will he?

It’s got nothing to do with whether I’m happy with it. Finishing 4th year after year is below what I want but I believe it will be acceptable to the board.

We’ll do better most years. If we do worse, even once, he’ll be gone, I’m sure. But micro criticism at every dip in fortunes is futile. The club seem to be taking the long view and if you ask if I’m happy with that, yes I am.

 

[hobbers]

We have only lost 4 of our last 38 games.

Those 38 games would total 88-points.

Ignoring the stupidity of this approach, you're somehow a whole 10 points off. Those 38 games = 78 points.

Not ignoring it though, and even if those magic extra 10 points existed... we finished on a dismal 66 points last season and we were lucky that Chelsea and Leicester collapsed after lockdown. Most seasons that total wouldn't be good enough for top four. The only reason it was deemed acceptable is because our first half of the season was so cataclysmically bad.

This season we're currently on course to finish on 72 points, which might not be good enough for top four, and is nothing to shout home about and certainly no indicator of progress. The only time the points matter is on the 38th game of the season. Not 38 games spanning between two seasons.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Honestly. I'm 50 50. It's for sure too early to say he should be here next season.

Let's see how it goes

 

[OrcaFat]

Well I may be a daft person because I have an opinion you dont agree with (bit harsh if you ask me), but lets see where we are a year from now. It would be great if we can keep a manager for more than 3 years, but I dont see the board being happy if hes scraping top 4 and nowhere near a trophy

Yeah, okay, it sounded daft to me, was meant to be light-hearted, my apologies.

The board just don’t kick up unless CL is at risk. That could change, we’ll have to wait and see, I suppose.

 

[Giggsy13]

Ole can’t seem to get everything clicking together. Last season our back 4 showed improvement and our front 3 was on fire. This season we’ve scored more goals yet it’s without any significant contribution from our front 3, our set piece defending is relegation level and Ole isn’t utilizing the full squad particularly VDB despite moaning about squad depth during the restart. He’s also failed to reward Axel with more starts particularly after a great game in Paris. That should’ve triggered a run of games for him. How is he supposed to improve and/or how are we supposed to know what we have with him if he isn’t given any chances? We know what Lindelof is at this point.

He also continues to persist with Martial and play Rashford out of his preferred position arguably now contributing to his poor run of form. Ole in short is the author of his own demise.

 

[pocco]

He's definitely right about that.

The whole club ethos has changed because the Glazers and Woodward realise that the fanbase is placid enough to be satisfied as perennial top four finishers, now that there's a "friendly-faced legend who loves and gets the club" buffer between the fans and them.

I don't feel like that is what he's actually trying to say though, otherwise I would agree. I've even said myself that Ole is perfect for Woodward as he can live in peace whilst United supporters are silenced with a club legend at the helm. It was a masterstroke from Woodward and has managed to shut everybody up.

 

[pocco]

We’ll if he’s “as crap as he wants” he won’t achieve top 4, will he?

It’s got nothing to do with whether I’m happy with it. Finishing 4th year after year is below what I want but I believe it will be acceptable to the board.

We’ll do better most years. If we do worse, even once, he’ll be gone, I’m sure. But micro criticism at every dip in fortunes is futile. The club seem to be taking the long view and if you ask if I’m happy with that, yes I am.

By our standards you can be pretty poor and finish top 4, take last season for example.

The rest is fair enough but is a significant back track on 'he will be here for many years', which is what prompted me to comment. At least you now recognise that might not actually be the case.

 

[OrcaFat]

By our standards you can be pretty poor and finish top 4, take last season for example.

The rest is fair enough but is a significant back track on 'he will be here for many years', which is what prompted me to comment. At least you now recognise that might not actually be the case.

I think we’ll finish top 4 for many years. I am often wrong.

 

[Eternitiy]

Ole can’t seem to get everything clicking together. Last season our back 4 showed improvement and our front 3 was on fire. This season we’ve scored more goals yet it’s without any significant contribution from our front 3, our set piece defending is relegation level and Ole isn’t utilizing the full squad particularly VDB despite moaning about squad depth during the restart. He’s also failed to reward Axel with more starts particularly after a great game in Paris. That should’ve triggered a run of games for him. How is he supposed to improve and/or how are we supposed to know what we have with him if he isn’t given any chances? We know what Lindelof is at this point.

He also continues to persist with Martial and play Rashford out of his preferred position arguably now contributing to his poor run of form. Ole in short is the author of his own demise.

That game was an anomaly. He's been totally out of his depth in every appearance since then, making error after error. He's not Manchester United quality, I'm sorry.

 

[Abhinav]

While its legitimate that Ole is under more pressure than 7 games ago, he definitely does not deserve to be sacked mid season. If we finish outside the top 4, he will be gone. Some want him gone even if he scrapes top 4, I may even be leaning towards that sentiment, but outside of Pelligrini, has any of the top 6 club sacked their manager after finishing top 4 in recent times?

 

[Giggsy13]

That game was an anomaly. He's been totally out of his depth in every appearance since then, making error after error. He's not Manchester United quality, I'm sorry.

It was not an anomaly, it was evidence of a good player with potential. Ole should have given him a run of games to continue the momentum.

 

[Siorac]

Ignoring the stupidity of this approach, you're somehow a whole 10 points off. Those 38 games = 78 points.

Not ignoring it though, and even if those magic extra 10 points existed... we finished on a dismal 66 points last season and we were lucky that Chelsea and Leicester collapsed after lockdown. Most seasons that total wouldn't be good enough for top four. The only reason it was deemed acceptable is because our first half of the season was so cataclysmically bad.

This season we're currently on course to finish on 72 points, which might not be good enough for top four, and is nothing to shout home about and certainly no indicator of progress. The only time the points matter is on the 38th game of the season. Not 38 games spanning between two seasons.

In another thread he suggested that if we sign Jonny Evans and Declan Rice, we'd be almost up there with the best teams of Europe. So let's not take him too seriously.

 

[Red Shorts]

Yeah, okay, it sounded daft to me, was meant to be light-hearted, my apologies.

The board just don’t kick up unless CL is at risk. That could change, we’ll have to wait and see, I suppose.

Apology accepted, lightheartedness can easily be missed here!

Agreed, and with the top 4 so tight we could swing out so easily. Ole needs to get consistency back asap to give himself more time

 

[Bilbo]

Its very easy to be downbeat at the moment. We all saw a glimpse of a league title and as much as we all tried our best to play that down, it was exciting. What are going through at the moment is not really any more than a downturn in form, and a reminder to us all that there are still issues in this team that need to be addressed.

What is clear is that on the wrong day our football just doesn't seem to work, but for me its less about looking for scapegoats and more about just realising that this team is not perfect and will suffer from good and bad periods of form, and it will quite likely look different next season. Problems will be addressed. Its an odd position for a fanbase to settle on - on one hand point out which players are rubbish and need to be replaced, and on the other hand to attack a manager that is unable to win the title with them.

Take a step back though and these renewed noises about replacing the manager are pretty ridiculous at this moment in time. There is no indication from the club of any pressure on him. We are actually still 2nd in the table. We have only lost once in our last 18 league games, and we are unbeaten away for over a year. You don't replace a manager who is putting up those numbers 2 years after he inherited a bit of a shit-show, you back him and give him the tools that he says he needs.

 

[SER19]

Its very easy to be downbeat at the moment. We all saw a glimpse of a league title and as much as we all tried our best to play that down, it was exciting. What are going through at the moment is not really any more than a downturn in form, and a reminder to us all that there are still issues in this team that need to be addressed.

What is clear is that on the wrong day our football just doesn't seem to work, but for me its less about looking for scapegoats and more about just realising that this team is not perfect and will suffer from good and bad periods of form, and it will quite likely look different next season. Problems will be addressed. Its an odd position for a fanbase to settle on - on one hand point out which players are rubbish and need to be replaced, and on the other hand to attack a manager that is unable to win the title with them.

Take a step back though and these renewed noises about replacing the manager are pretty ridiculous at this moment in time. There is no indication from the club of any pressure on him. We are actually still 2nd in the table. We have only lost once in our last 18 league games, and we are unbeaten away for over a year. You don't replace a manager who is putting up those numbers 2 years after he inherited a bit of a shit-show, you back him and give him the tools that he says he needs.

If we actually hit some form and finish second but a well deserved second, most will be happy I think. The fear here is that we're getting dragged into another scramble for 4th and now only 4 clear of West ham. Add a cup to a strong league finish and we will recall this season fondly

 

[Bilbo]

If we actually hit some form and finish second but a well deserved second, most will be happy I think. The fear here is that we're getting dragged into another scramble for 4th and now only 4 clear of West ham. Add a cup to a strong league finish and we will recall this season fondly

I hope so. Few posters would have given us any chance of a 2nd place finish back in the summer. We may or may not get there, but its important that people remember what their expectations were and judge this season accordingly, and not view it as a failure just because we touched 1st place for a while.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I have one simple question - if we had a Lewandowski/Haaland player up front - and a player almost as good as VVD in central defence - would anyone question that we have a team good enough to win the league ? We realistically need 2 more players - and we have a team that can match every other club in the league.

If the board backs him to get 2-3 quality players in - we will fight for the title.

So when we don’t sign Van Dijk or Lewandowski it’s everyone but OgSs fault cause he hasn’t been given generational talents to manage.

The board has backed him with his Van Dijk in Maguire & a £50mil RB.

For sure the squad needs some better players but the answer can’t always be to buy our way out of this; we’ve got some damn good talent already at the club that needs harnessing.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

If we actually hit some form and finish second but a well deserved second, most will be happy I think. The fear here is that we're getting dragged into another scramble for 4th and now only 4 clear of West ham. Add a cup to a strong league finish and we will recall this season fondly

Exactly.

 

[OrcaFat]

Its very easy to be downbeat at the moment. We all saw a glimpse of a league title and as much as we all tried our best to play that down, it was exciting. What are going through at the moment is not really any more than a downturn in form, and a reminder to us all that there are still issues in this team that need to be addressed.

What is clear is that on the wrong day our football just doesn't seem to work, but for me its less about looking for scapegoats and more about just realising that this team is not perfect and will suffer from good and bad periods of form, and it will quite likely look different next season. Problems will be addressed. Its an odd position for a fanbase to settle on - on one hand point out which players are rubbish and need to be replaced, and on the other hand to attack a manager that is unable to win the title with them.

Take a step back though and these renewed noises about replacing the manager are pretty ridiculous at this moment in time. There is no indication from the club of any pressure on him. We are actually still 2nd in the table. We have only lost once in our last 18 league games, and we are unbeaten away for over a year. You don't replace a manager who is putting up those numbers 2 years after he inherited a bit of a shit-show, you back him and give him the tools that he says he needs.

Wise words, once again, Bilbo.

 

[Bilbo]

For sure the squad needs some better players but the answer can’t always be to buy our way out of this; we’ve got some damn good talent already at the club that needs harnessing.

A lot more often than not the only answer available at this level is to buy your way out of it.

The club are being smart and looking forwards with our youth development but that isn't going to solve every problem we have right now. In some positions we simply have to buy better players than those we have.

 

[Polar]

No, the narrative that Ole is the same level of manager as Klopp is a joke.

Right now it seems like Ole is a better manager . Now that Liverpool is a couple of key players down, we start talking about equal squads; the fact United lack three players to be a real title challenger. Small margins in international top-football.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Its very easy to be downbeat at the moment. We all saw a glimpse of a league title and as much as we all tried our best to play that down, it was exciting. What are going through at the moment is not really any more than a downturn in form, and a reminder to us all that there are still issues in this team that need to be addressed.

What is clear is that on the wrong day our football just doesn't seem to work, but for me its less about looking for scapegoats and more about just realising that this team is not perfect and will suffer from good and bad periods of form, and it will quite likely look different next season. Problems will be addressed. Its an odd position for a fanbase to settle on - on one hand point out which players are rubbish and need to be replaced, and on the other hand to attack a manager that is unable to win the title with them.

Take a step back though and these renewed noises about replacing the manager are pretty ridiculous at this moment in time. There is no indication from the club of any pressure on him. We are actually still 2nd in the table. We have only lost once in our last 18 league games, and we are unbeaten away for over a year. You don't replace a manager who is putting up those numbers 2 years after he inherited a bit of a shit-show, you back him and give him the tools that he says he needs.

Doesnt 99% of managers inherit a shit show? I mean if the previous manager was sacked it means he was doing poorly. I see this argument repeated way to ofteen, "Ole needs more time is clear he has made progress from our previous manager lowest point". Well thats a really really low bar isnt it?

Under that logic then we should had given Mourinho infinite time since he inherited a shitshow from LVG, and then we should had given LVG more time since he inherited a shitshow from Moyes.

It doesnt work that way, we should judge according to our expecting goals, not to the previous manager lowest point. The truth is we have stagnated with Ole, Im not talking about meaningless stats like "longest streak without a loss away from home" but not mentioning one of the poorest spells at Old Trafford, or "we are still in the FA" but dont mention we got kicked from the UCL, Im talking about performances. Seriously watch this forum, every single game theres doubt if we'll be able to win. We're in such a roller coaster that you don't know what team youre going to see. Will Bruno click? then feck yeah well thrive...will he have an off day? then feck me well be as dull as can be.

Im not saying we should sack Ole at the moment, all Im debating is that the so mentioned progress many posters claim is not really clear to see. Not in points, not in individual performances and certainly not as a team performance.

 

[vanrooney]

the reaction of parts of our fanbase only shows that there is more and more black and white and less balance in views nowadays and thats only a reflection of the way (social) media discussions work today. i can therefore understand where its coming from but hope that the majority can stay calm and see the bigger picture. as many here said allready there are many positives and the development of the squad is clear to see for me. really hope ole gets his first title this year so he can buy himself some more time and more support from the fans

 

[Sky1981]

It's an amplifying back and forth alright.

One side resorts to best squad since slice bread, progress, deadwood gone, rebuilt, united way, breath of fresh air from moukenstein

Another side resorts to PE teacher.

It takes two to tango.

 

[OrcaFat]

Doesnt 99% of managers inherit a shit show? I mean if the previous manager was sacked it means he was doing poorly. I see this argument repeated way to ofteen, "Ole needs more time is clear he has made progress from our previous manager lowest point". Well thats a really really low bar isnt it?

Under that logic then we should had given Mourinho infinite time since he inherited a shitshow from LVG, and then we should had given LVG more time since he inherited a shitshow from Moyes.

It doesnt work that way, we should judge according to our expecting goals, not to the previous manager lowest point. The truth is we have stagnated with Ole, Im not talking about meaningless stats like "longest streak without a loss away from home" but not mentioning one of the poorest spells at Old Trafford, or "we are still in the FA" but dont mention we got kicked from the UCL, Im talking about performances. Seriously watch this forum, every single game theres doubt if we'll be able to win. We're in such a roller coaster that you don't know what team youre going to see. Will Bruno click? then feck yeah well thrive...will he have an off day? then feck me well be as dull as can be.

Im not saying we should sack Ole at the moment, all Im debating is that the so mentioned progress many posters claim is not really clear to see. Not in points, not in individual performances and certainly not as a team performance.

99% of managers inherit a shitshow and 99% do a lot less with it than Ole has. You don’t see progress, okay, but many of us do.

I rarely find us dull to watch. Lucky me, I suppose. But we’re not the finished article and I don’t think a reasonable person expects the finished article yet, is the point.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

We have only lost 4 of our last 38 games.

Those 38 games would total 88-points.

We haven't been beaten away from home in 13-months.

We are second in the current league; only behind a team that has been together for years and is settled and mature.

We have the youngest squad out of the "top six" by a full 2 years. We have the second youngest squad in the whole league.

We have signed - in the past 18-months - the hottest young teens from all around the world; from Italy, from Real Madrid, from Barcelona, from South America etc...

Our three strikers (av, age 22) were the best performing strikers in the whole of the Premier League last season.

We are ahead of schedule 2.5 years into a 5 year plan.

...but eh.. yeah, we only drew away to West Brom on Sunday... so eh... better sack the manager and start all over again....

Now it's a 5 year plan? Didn't we start off at 3?

I don't understand the metric people use to decide that we're ahead of schedule. You said yourself last season our 3 strikers where the best performing in the PL. This season 2/3s of them haven't shown up although to be fair to Greenwood he hasn't had as many minutes, and the other striker who may have a good goals/assists ratio is way off last seasons form so are we improving?

Last season our defence looked shaky even though we didn't concede that many goals but this season doesn't seem to have fixed the problems we had. In what way are we improving?

Last season Bruno was on fire but due to continually carrying the team on his back his form has dipped noticeably. McFred, Matic or VDB haven't done anything spectacular to think we're improving considerably.

De Gea even though he has cut out a lot of his atrocious errors from last season doesn't look anywhere near to being a dominant GK we need to win titles. Is Henderson the answer? Nobody knows so so far there's been no improvement in the GK department.

For me we still can't play out from the back. So no improvement there. Bar the odd game we still can't transition properly from midfield to attack so no improvement there. The only slight improvement I've seen is maybe our wing play from the fullbacks (especially Shaw) so I'll give Ole that one.

All I see from Ole is a manager who blows hot and cold. Even in the last 7 or 8 seasons including Molde and us it's the same story over and over. I won't include Cardiff and in the same 7 or 8 seasons he hasn't won one trophy yet people are still basing all their trust in him to succeed at one of the biggest clubs in the world? I really am missing something here.

 

[Bilbo]

Doesnt 99% of managers inherit a shit show? I mean if the previous manager was sacked it means he was doing poorly. I see this argument repeated way to ofteen, "Ole needs more time is clear he has made progress from our previous manager lowest point". Well thats a really really low bar isnt it?

Under that logic then we should had given Mourinho infinite time since he inherited a shitshow from LVG, and then we should had given LVG more time since he inherited a shitshow from Moyes.

It doesnt work that way, we should judge according to our expecting goals, not to the previous manager lowest point. The truth is we have stagnated with Ole, Im not talking about meaningless stats like "longest streak without a loss away from home" but not mentioning one of the poorest spells at Old Trafford, or "we are still in the FA" but dont mention we got kicked from the UCL, Im talking about performances. Seriously watch this forum, every single game theres doubt if we'll be able to win. We're in such a roller coaster that you don't know what team youre going to see. Will Bruno click? then feck yeah well thrive...will he have an off day? then feck me well be as dull as can be.

Im not saying we should sack Ole at the moment, all Im debating is that the so mentioned progress many posters claim is not really clear to see. Not in points, not in individual performances and certainly not as a team performance.

There are varying degrees of shit show though obviously. Tuchel for example hasn't inherited one. In fact he has come in to an enviable position. A manager taking on United today wouldn't be getting a shitshow IMO. I personally don't feel that this was the case with Ole. Our squad needed a lot of work and the club needed to be stabilised. It was a hot mess.

The problem is that our fanbase have now become very reactive to what really only amounts to small pockets of results. We have hit a rough patch, but its only very recently that we were on a run of 10W & 3D and everybody was either satisfied (to the point of giddiness) or just not posting. Right now the view is that everything is falling apart and change is essential. Its one extreme to the other.

Ultimately it comes down to how an individual perceives progress. If we end up 2nd this season that is undoubtedly progress in my view, and if we keep reaching semifinals at the same rate we will very likely start to win some of those trophies, maybe even a lot of them.

I just dont get the constant need for evalution. Every soundbite coming out from the club since Ole day 1 has been 'long term project', and that is what this is. So far its pretty clear that the club feels that this project is on course, and I personally agree with that point of view. This is football though, so success or failure is always on a knife-edge and quite often down to very small and often uncontrollable moments, and lately we've been on the wrong side of those moments. Like 99% of all teams we arent good enough to not be affected by those incidents.

This forum has just become one giant drama queen though. People can't possibly just enjoy the season, with all of its ups and downs, and evaluate things at the proper time, which in this case is in May

 

[Polar]

I'm not biased, in fact, I'm one of few here saying let's not make sweeping statements until we see where we are at the end of the season.

When your entire post is whataboutisms and strawmans to defend Ole from any criticism, it does kinda seem like you say this to defend Ole or have some kind of intention.

How can we expect to challenge for the title without a title quality squad? Why do we expect United to do much better than Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham and Leicester without a significant better squad?

We are ahead of those teams mostly because our players’ mentality, team spirit and work capacity has improved. These aspects are very influenced by a manager or a leader. In this matter I can’t see who’s suppose to do a better job than Ole.

I don’t think it’s fair to criticise Ole for personal mistakes and also to a certain extent lack of form or confidence. Holly macaroni we have witnessed many blunders this season.

Also think critics about in game management and substitutes are exaggerated. Should we base the Ole in/out discussion on details we’re not able to evaluate right or wrong or measure the effect?

My greatest concern about Ole is our possession play or play against established low-laying defence. It’s weird Ole hasn’t figured it out yet.

I observe a positive trend regarding our fullbacks and McT, and Greenwood almost looked like a star when he joined last match, but something is still massively wrong. We lack rhythm and are not able to create unbalance, which off course is reinforced as long as Rashford and Martial are totally off. The other players (except Bruno) play way to safe and seem uncomfortable or lost.

Perhaps Ole’s possession ambition is to high or complex in relation to our qualities? We obviously need a) a more simple or direct possession play or b) players with more possession play quality.

I don’t want to conclude regarding Ole before we obviously have a title challenging squad, because now I’m not sure what’s the major root to some of our problems. Is it Woody, quality of players, Ole or club structure? As long as it’s a fair chance our problem isn’t the manager, we shouldn’t replace Ole. What does it help if another manager is introduced for the same problem? I think our experience speak for itself and give us the answer.

Under Ole’s command we have at least moved forward and are heading in the right direction, even though it goes a bit slow. Perhaps rebuilding is all about slowness? It takes time to get rid of players and replace them. The squad consisted of more rotten than good apples when Ole took over, something also Jose realised. That’s why he orchestrated his exit to get away from the mess.

 

[RooneyLegend]

The man has to go if we have any chance of reclaiming our former glory.

 

[SER19]

I hope so. Few posters would have given us any chance of a 2nd place finish back in the summer. We may or may not get there, but its important that people remember what their expectations were and judge this season accordingly, and not view it as a failure just because we touched 1st place for a while.

I'd make peace with that happening no matter what. The very people who said we'd struggle will now complain that we didn't win the league. If we won the league they'd say it was because other teams were off the boil. It's a self fulfilling righteousness that makes you wonder when they actually enjoy the sport.

Saying that I'm generally very pro ole, but stumbling over the line to 4th from where we were in December would be really concerning. 32 points or so from the last 42, with a cup would be good and would mean we could really enjoy looking back on the season barring a terrible blip

 

[Tyrion]

Enlighten me. Why?



It seems like they are coming back with these template of tweets, saying we have no progress.
These are expected, we are never going to win the title this season, and among all the other teams we are clearly the 2nd best team in the league right now.

That is progress.

We have been the second best thanks to Chelsea misfiring under a club legend before replacing him with a manager who seems to know what he's doing (hhmmmm...) and Liverpool having their entire defence injured. As soon as City got their act together, they went ahead.

And why were we never going to win the league this season? I agree but I agree because I dont believe our squad or manager is good enough. I'm curious why you agree.