I think the only way Ole will do something about the defence is if someone put 4-5 goals passed us without it being a goalie cock up. We are going to be discussing this over and over again as it stands. He nailed his colours to the mast with spunking £130 mill on Maguire and AWB, making one world record signing. Yet neither have improved the defence any more than under Mourinho. He cant drop Maguire as it will show his incompetancy up. This will be his Achilles heel. If he is still manager next season and Im afraid he will be, Ole will need to spend big again on a CD to play with Maguire and an attacking RB/RWB.
Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
We need Bailly back in soon as possible and just hope he stays fit for the remainder.
For the summer we have to sign someone with Bailly qualities but is not made of glass. With the transfer rumours I think Ole and the staff know they've made some mistakes, they will try for a new partner for Maguire and get in an alternative right back. I don't think any new right back will light a fire under AWB's arse though, this is what we bought so I expect him to takeover.
De Gea made a great save to help out Maguire at West Brom but overall his style invites pressure. I'd be in favour of giving Hendo more games, especially against bottom of the league teams which really exploit Maguire and De Gea's weaknesses. It's one thing having trouble breaking them down but in recent years we give them too many goals starts, we're so shit on corners and one v one. They don't even need a wealth of chances.
For the summer we have to sign someone with Bailly qualities but is not made of glass. With the transfer rumours I think Ole and the staff know they've made some mistakes, they will try for a new partner for Maguire and get in an alternative right back. I don't think any new right back will light a fire under AWB's arse though, this is what we bought so I expect him to takeover.
De Gea made a great save to help out Maguire at West Brom but overall his style invites pressure. I'd be in favour of giving Hendo more games, especially against bottom of the league teams which really exploit Maguire and De Gea's weaknesses. It's one thing having trouble breaking them down but in recent years we give them too many goals starts, we're so shit on corners and one v one. They don't even need a wealth of chances.
Maybe we can give fit again Phil Jones a go alongside maguire? Worth a shout surely?
Definitely not.
Definitely not.
No I think a Central defender is high priority this summer. They'll be working on a player that compliments Maguire's style so he wont have to save face by dropping his club captain.
I think you're harsh on AWB too, he's had some great defensive games for United and he's an improvement on what we had there prior to him joining. He's not great going forward but I think that's highlighted even more because we don't have a right winger doing that job either. Neville wasn't exactly prime Cafu getting forward but he did the defensive stuff behind Beckham and they worked well as a pair. reduce the attacking onus on AWB and he'll look a better player by default.
Shaw is back to his best, AWB is an improvement and getting better in attack.
Lindelof is an improvement over Jones and Rojo.
Maguire is available to play every match.
Our CBS don’t work well together, but which one goes depends on who would come in.
The last two matches Maguire has collapsed like an IKEA bookshelf trying to buy a foul and both times he didn’t get the call. I can take Lindelof’s frailties over that garbage.
Lindelof is an improvement over Jones and Rojo.
Maguire is available to play every match.
Our CBS don’t work well together, but which one goes depends on who would come in.
The last two matches Maguire has collapsed like an IKEA bookshelf trying to buy a foul and both times he didn’t get the call. I can take Lindelof’s frailties over that garbage.
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The defence is just a bad mix at the moment. Its not that individually they're bad players, its just that they manage to all exacerbates each other's weaknesses.
* Among the centre backs we have two right footers, meaning Maguire is almost always playing on the wrong side, which limits his ability to pass.
* Our worst passer of the ball, AWB, plays on the side with no true right winger, meaning he's the one with the hardest pass through the press.
* One of our CBs and our goalkeeper are poor at crosses, meaning anything into the box is dangerous eg West Brom's goal yesterday.
* Both our main centre backs are slow and our goalkeeper is slow to come off his line to deal with things, which means a high line is always dangerous. See how easily West Brom got in against us when we were chasing the win.
I don't think its that hard to solve though. We need a keeper who can come out quickly and can also take balls from the air. Then we need a pacy CB who can let us keep a higher line. We need a right winger anyway, and having someone who can form a partnership with AWB over an entire season would make it easier for him to pass his way through a press.
At that point I think we have a much more natural unit to work with. While I don't think Ole is particularly outstanding at coaching a defense, at least he's left with a good foundation for it.
* Among the centre backs we have two right footers, meaning Maguire is almost always playing on the wrong side, which limits his ability to pass.
* Our worst passer of the ball, AWB, plays on the side with no true right winger, meaning he's the one with the hardest pass through the press.
* One of our CBs and our goalkeeper are poor at crosses, meaning anything into the box is dangerous eg West Brom's goal yesterday.
* Both our main centre backs are slow and our goalkeeper is slow to come off his line to deal with things, which means a high line is always dangerous. See how easily West Brom got in against us when we were chasing the win.
I don't think its that hard to solve though. We need a keeper who can come out quickly and can also take balls from the air. Then we need a pacy CB who can let us keep a higher line. We need a right winger anyway, and having someone who can form a partnership with AWB over an entire season would make it easier for him to pass his way through a press.
At that point I think we have a much more natural unit to work with. While I don't think Ole is particularly outstanding at coaching a defense, at least he's left with a good foundation for it.
It’s telling how much better our form was when Bailly was playing. He snuffed out so many chances and let us play higher up the pitch.
It’s time for Henderson as well. De Gea started the season decently but he’s not playing better than Henderson has so he should be dropped.
It’s time for Henderson as well. De Gea started the season decently but he’s not playing better than Henderson has so he should be dropped.
100%. Also, in what world does Bailly get physically dominated by Diagne? Bailly would bounce him off. I don't see the medical reports at Man Utd but it seems suicidal to continue playing Lindelof and Maguire.
I agree entirely. He has his detractors, but he is head and shoulders above what we have when it comes to heart and fight. Jones is a warrior.
Also wish to add that wba had 12 days to rest and train for our game when we in the same time had 2 games and this our 3rd. It's got to be Lindelof or Maguire as you
The actual reason for my posting is to say that Lindelof is the Adnan Januzaj of defenders.
And this is why smoking drugs is bad for your braincells, your thoughts are not consistent with reality and you have warped thoughts
The actual reason for my posting is to say that Lindelof is the Adnan Januzaj of defenders.
That's a low bar to clear considering the both of them are almost never available for us.
He's still a shit defender who shouldn't even be starting for us.
Last year people were telling us we had a defence you could build a title race on because we conceded 3rd least goals in the league. Sometimes you got to see the woods for the trees. Our defence wasn't that solid and didn't allow us to attack full on. We saw warning signs last season that we could get exposed whilst the likes of Sevilla grabbed 2 easy goals to knock us out with basic moves and Chelsea smashed us on the FA semi final. It looked unreliable. From day one this season the chickens have come home to roost. It is clear we need to upgrade our defence and it will continue to let us down. We have one very good player in his position and the rest are good/decent/ok-ish. I doubt any attacker fears playing against our defenders bar maybe Wan Bissaka (if you a dribbler).
I’d also say that Maguire is the Tom Cleverley of defenders. Give me Jones over either of these two frauds any day. At least with Jones, expectations are low and he gives 100% every game.Also wish to add that wba had 12 days to rest and train for our game when we in the same time had 2 games and this our 3rd. It's got to be Lindelof or Maguire as you
And this is why smoking drugs is bad for your braincells, your thoughts are not consistent with reality and you have warped thoughts
The actual reason for my posting is to say that Lindelof is the Adnan Januzaj of defenders.
100%
A fit Jones before the constant cycle of injuries ruined him was levels above Lindelof.
This needs repeating.
Lindelof doesn’t tie shoelaces for our mack up CBs of yesteryear.
Phil Jones was one hell of a talent let’s not forget.
Pre-injuries Jones in 11-12 was far better than all of our current centre back options. He also could do a job at right back & in defensive midfield. I remember him bossing the midfield at the Bernabeu.
It beggars belief that Maguire, Lindelof & Wan-Bissaka cost a combined £150m. Roughly the same amount was spent on City’s 3 equivalent players & the difference is night & day. Unbelievably poor recruitment by us.
De Gea has regressed again for the third season in a row to the point he’s probably not even in the top five keepers in the league, AWB has no alternative so is coasting, Lindelof is still weak and awful in the air whilst horribly slow, Bailly has a mad moment in him every few games or is injured, Maguire is horrifically slow, Tuanzebe seems to not be trusted being given a run of games at centre back and Jones is Jones so I’d say NO our defence isn’t fixed.
Shaw and Telles is our only saving grace in defence as Telles coming in has lit a fire under Shaw to the point Shaw is probably our best player this season after Fernandes but that’s the only positive I can actually find.
We’ve spent £30+ million on Lindelof, £30+ million on Bailly, £80 million on Maguire and £50 million on AWB in recent seasons and we’re still a quality centre back with pace, an alternative right back and possibly a keeper if we’re not going to give Henderson a run to see if he’s the answer away from fixing our defence and even then we still need a pure out and out defensive midfielder because we can’t play Fernandes and Pogba in the same team against bigger teams with Matic as our only defensive midfielder and neither McTominay or Fred are that type of player either.
Shaw and Telles is our only saving grace in defence as Telles coming in has lit a fire under Shaw to the point Shaw is probably our best player this season after Fernandes but that’s the only positive I can actually find.
We’ve spent £30+ million on Lindelof, £30+ million on Bailly, £80 million on Maguire and £50 million on AWB in recent seasons and we’re still a quality centre back with pace, an alternative right back and possibly a keeper if we’re not going to give Henderson a run to see if he’s the answer away from fixing our defence and even then we still need a pure out and out defensive midfielder because we can’t play Fernandes and Pogba in the same team against bigger teams with Matic as our only defensive midfielder and neither McTominay or Fred are that type of player either.
We have the makings of a really good squad if we can finally sort out the 3/4 key positions in our first 11, easily said than done though obviously.
AWB and Luke Shaw are the only players who come out with any credit in that back line thus far for me. Our central defensive pairing is a shambles and its spoken about to death. While DDG has saved us on a few occasions its his costly mistakes that will always be topic of discussion. He has a lot of making up to do to totally win confidence in him back and he also has to contend with Henderson breathing down his back.
The jury is still out on Telles for me. His crossing ability is probably the best in our squad but they're still question marks over his positioning and overall defensive contributions, especially against tougher opposition. Shaw should never be doubted but the competition from Telles has really brought the best out of him, almost like Williams did in a similar fashion last season. I hope we go out and get a top CB next summer. I don't like the idea of shopping for someone to neutralize Maguire's weaknesses, we need to sign a top CB period who fits this clubs needs and possesses an array of attributes suited for the role. Maguire has never been a top CB or a leader for me and the transfer fee we paid will never change that perception
The jury is still out on Telles for me. His crossing ability is probably the best in our squad but they're still question marks over his positioning and overall defensive contributions, especially against tougher opposition. Shaw should never be doubted but the competition from Telles has really brought the best out of him, almost like Williams did in a similar fashion last season. I hope we go out and get a top CB next summer. I don't like the idea of shopping for someone to neutralize Maguire's weaknesses, we need to sign a top CB period who fits this clubs needs and possesses an array of attributes suited for the role. Maguire has never been a top CB or a leader for me and the transfer fee we paid will never change that perception
Our defense will never be fixed as long as De Gea is in goal standing on his line waiting for our defenders to win 100% of the balls played into his 6 yard box...
The only fit Jones I remember was when he still played for Blackburn. Even a half-crocked Jones is better than our current options.
problem is ole wont change it, De Gea is now on his 3rd season of massive decline, gave him this crazy contract that means he will always be number 1. is Henderson much better we don't no but surely he deserves a chance till the end of the season. Maguire signed for a massive fee and is again undroppable because of it, lets be honest he is no better then a Keane from Everton and what did he cost £25m? Lindelof for me is always just a disaster of a CB, a mean a CB who cant header the ball ? like come on eh, and the ultimate insult to the club, the other players in the squad and to the fans is no matter what they still play and its a common theme in the squad, piss poor players not performing for months at a time and yet he still plays them. when he ultimately gets sacked he will only have himself to blame for not changing the crap out the team
There's also an element of management and a lack of tactical versatility. Last season we defended well when the impetus was on the team to absorb pressure and pull a counter. This season it's clearly been less effective and with having to play on the front foot more often via a higher line, the defence has been exposed with Maguire / partner causing issues.
We seem unable to defend unless the team is told to resemble the same approach Jose got criticism for. So even with a new defender can the coaches get the balance right is the question.
We seem unable to defend unless the team is told to resemble the same approach Jose got criticism for. So even with a new defender can the coaches get the balance right is the question.
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Yeah but he’s never going to slate the tactics nor coaching ability. He’s very limited on what he can say & just blaming the players isn’t addressing the whole issue.
Came in here to post this. Ole needs to change something if we're going to win titles again.
This rounds it up pretty nicely. Even though people talk about signing new midfielders, it will make no difference if they have to continue to babysit our centre backs.
Despite playing two defensive midfielders in front of them, we continue to concede loads of goals.
Lindelof and Maguire are an awful partnership. Maguire has the turning speed on an oil tanker and struggles with recovery. Lindelof lacks in strength and speed (but not so much as Maguire). Both equally tend to mess up; I don't think one is better than the other in this aspect. Both of them are too unreliable.
The stats are not accurate in that Neville clip - more like 1.3 goals conceded per match that's on target to concede nearly 50 goals in the premier league season. I suspect this may well end up around 40 but it's probably 10-15 more than most teams concede when they win the league and this would be the set piece goals/mistakes our defence are making.
Chelsea hold the record at 15 for the season 04/05.
Because we are starting to misfire upfront this could cost us top 4 if we don't sort this out.
Chelsea hold the record at 15 for the season 04/05.
Because we are starting to misfire upfront this could cost us top 4 if we don't sort this out.
If it's the same game I'm thinking of he man marked Ronaldo out of the game. Colossus performance.
I think the problem we have now is that we've paid something like £200m for Wan-Bissaka, Bailly, Lindelof and Maguire and all are good players but probably unlikely to be trophy winners. I don't think replacing Lindelof turns us into contenders because we still have to deal with Maguire's flaws, and vice versa.
Neville is saying that Lindelof is a good player but not with Maguire. I think the biggest mistake we made was pay so much for Maguire. So now we have to play him. Ole should start playing Lindelof and Bailly. But also Degea is another problem. I think Lindelof with a good keeper who comes out at does not stand on his line would be a much better player.
You can play prime Vidic next to Lindelof, still he won't be a better player. He lacks aggression, weak physically and easily bullied.
Neither was Ronald Koeman but paired with Rijkard he was one of the best. CBs play as pairs. That is why when he has played with other players he looked better.
When did he look better? He played alongside Smalling and he looked as poor as he is today.
Yes, CB plays as pairs, that doesn't mean every CB will look good with better player next to them.
smalling looked poor alongside him too. He has his weakness but it is made more because of Maguire and DeGea.
Yeah but Smalling looked very good next to Blind and with players like Vidic. So maybe it's Lindelof who is the problem.
The Athletic have analyzed our defense and - surprise, surprise - it's based on... individual performances and individual choices. God, we don't even have a football coach, do we?
https://theathletic.com/2388817/2021/02/16/manchester-united-punished-set-pieces-why/
Lets hope the incoming CB this summer is the missing link.
However agree the coaching is probably lacking as well.
However agree the coaching is probably lacking as well.