[Sylar]

Maguire doesn't have to make that challenge if his CB partner doesn't get skinned on the half way line as the last defender. Stop that clip at 7 seconds. Bailly is deeper than Maguire at that point. There's also absolutely no way their CF should be a hairs breadth away from getting a shot on goal. And the thing is, there was two significant mistakes before that moment too.

I get what you're saying and I know it's been coveted and answered quite a bit. I do think Bailly is beaten and that's a mistake, but sometimes you give credit to a striker for a great turn. However Bailly pace means that the striker doesn't get away and is trying to protect the ball from Bailly, and that's where maguire gets credit for his run back which allows him to clear up

It really is good team work in a 2 on 1 situation.

The issue of course is if Bailly does this every time when we're playing a high line but it's a risk you take with a high line to try and recover the ball quicker.

I do think bailly and Maguire have a good understanding (well better) compared to lindelof and maguire. My worry for Bailly is if he plays the next game, will he then be available for the game after that?

 

[Adnan]

Bailly certainly messed up at the beginning of that, allowing Isak to turn and get past him far too easily. However it's also Bailly's pace and pressure which forces Isak wide enough and into making a poor touch which gives Maguire an easy tackle, and if Maguire doesn't make that tackle Bailly has still forced Isak wide enough that Bailly is between him and the goal and he's unlikely to score.

Bailly made the original mistake, but he'd already mostly fixed it himself rather than Maguire saving him. That's not to downplay Maguire as he did do well.

This. Completely agree and the most balanced assessment I've seen thus far on the passage of play.

 

[Zlaatan]

I thought he was excellent last night and despite all the hate he's been getting he's still by far our best CB.

You don't unless you can win the ball. But if you lose the ball then you must have recovery pace to recover the situation which Bailly has and dealt with the developing threat in tandem with Maguire. You're micro-analyzing the passage of play in question.

Isn't that what the caf does every time? Go into the performance threads of any CB and you'll see every single mistake or involvement being picked apart to explain what went wrong and how the CB that wasn't playing would never do such a thing. Every goal and chance we concede is turned and flipped every which way to show that whoever the poster is biased towards/against is the player to praise/blame.

It's getting to the point where you don't even have to read the posts anymore to know what the poster is saying, you just have to know what situation is being discussed and who the posters are and you have a very good idea of what's going on. We're all biased but when it comes to our defenders, and CB's in particular, the caf is borderline ridiculous.

 

[Adnan]

I thought he was excellent last night and despite all the hate he's been getting he's still by far our best CB.





Isn't that what the caf does every time? Go into the performance threads of any CB and you'll see every single mistake or involvement being picked apart to explain what went wrong and how the CB that wasn't playing would never do such a thing. Every goal and chance we concede is turned and flipped every which way to show that whoever the poster is biased towards/against is the player to praise/blame.

It's getting to the point where you don't even have to read the posts anymore to know what the poster is saying, you just have to know what situation is being discussed and who the posters are and you have a very good idea of what's going on. We're all biased but when it comes to our defenders, and CB's in particular, the caf is borderline ridiculous.

I agree mate.

 

[simmee]

Bailly certainly messed up at the beginning of that, allowing Isak to turn and get past him far too easily. However it's also Bailly's pace and pressure which forces Isak wide enough and into making a poor touch which gives Maguire an easy tackle, and if Maguire doesn't make that tackle Bailly has still forced Isak wide enough that Bailly is between him and the goal and he's unlikely to score.

Bailly made the original mistake, but he'd already mostly fixed it himself rather than Maguire saving him. That's not to downplay Maguire as he did do well.

Agree with this, but a better/more experienced forward gets his touch in front of Bailly and he has to foul and risk a red or he's out of the situation.

To get this thread back on track, thought Maguire was brilliant yesterday.

 

[Lentwood]

Isn't that what the caf does every time? Go into the performance threads of any CB and you'll see every single mistake or involvement being picked apart to explain what went wrong and how the CB that wasn't playing would never do such a thing. Every goal and chance we concede is turned and flipped every which way to show that whoever the poster is biased towards/against is the player to praise/blame.

This is just football in general mate! We all know that GKs and CBs can be brilliant for weeks on end and then make one mistake and be labelled a clown.

Imagine if we added up all of the mistakes the likes of Bruno and Rashford made in games!

As you say though, it’s gotten worse in the modern era because every game is televised and every single goal is scrutinised and watched in super slow-mo from every angle.

Bottom line is this - every single time a goal is scored or a chance is created you COULD argue it was one (if not both) of the CBs at fault.

Maguire’s big problem is simply that we paid £80m for him. The media whipped up a frenzy about it and many of our more gullible fans swallowed it and are desperate to find problems with Maguire at every turn.

For me personally, Maguire is certainly the best CB we have had since the peak Vidic/Rio axis by a country mile

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

For me personally, Maguire is certainly the best CB we have had since the peak Vidic/Rio axis by a country mile

Same. Granted, the bar isn’t set so high but yeah, by a country mile.

 

[Jonno]

Another solid performance from our captain.

He really proved his importance when we were at 0-0 and 1-0, the game still in the balance. Made two crucial blocks, a crucial interception when they countered us & he drove us forward with some good long forward passing.

Looked much more comfortable with Bailly. Bailly is not an will never be truly top level/world class nor will he stay fit for 50 games per season. But the blueprint is there. Get somebody world class, quick and put him next to Maguire and I think we will have a very good CB pairing and this debate on what we need defensively can be done.

I argue till I'm blue in the face on this thread to back off Maguire. People saying "it's a disgrace he's our captain" and his performances are "absolutely awful". Can somebody take the next shift when we play Newcastle?

 

[Kostov]

He's tight up to Isak is he?


He's got 5 yards on him at least. And thats just what we see here. He steps up when he shouldn't and Isak meanders past him. Really por stuff. If he doesn't overly commit, Maguire can get back in position and the opportunity never happens. As it happens, Maguire does superbly well to make up the yards and get the tackle in before the shot.

Not sure what's the issue here, I think both of them did quite well there.

 

[Kostov]

Come on. Bailly’s initial reaction was poor. Or if his name was Lindelof, weak/passive. The two of them did well to recover and bail us out but if that was a quality forward like Salah ripping through our defensive line (or God help us, Mbappe) then we’re in all sorts of trouble.

A simple pass down the middle should never end up in a desperate sliding tackle at the edge of our box if it’s been dealt with properly.

If his name was Lindelof, we would probably conceded on that occasion considering how fast Isak is, regardless of Lindelof turning half a second sooner. A simple pass down the middle could always end up in a chance when you have a fast attacker against two CBs, and no CDM in between.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If his name was Lindelof, we would probably conceded on that occasion considering how fast Isak is, regardless of Lindelof turning half a second sooner.

Nar, Lindelöf would’ve likely backed off to the half way line and let him turn with no pressure, that’s how he defends. It’d be a 2v1 at the half way line.

 

[Kostov]

Nar, Lindelöf would’ve likely backed off to the half way line and let him turn with no pressure, that’s how he defends. It’d be a 2v1 at the half way line.

Or in translation, most of the time he does not defend and is simply there.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I have such a sick feeling regarding Maguire... now I'm thinking more and more, what was going through our heads to spend 80m on this guy? And now, because we did that, the politics of it all is stopping us from correcting the mistake. I fear we'll be stuck with him for many years, trying different combinations when really, he is the problem.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Or in translation, most of the time he does not defend and is simply there.

Ha ha. I said yesterday, I have my bias but in that situation it would’ve no doubt been the “right” thing to do.
My bias comes in that I think he does that in almost every situation, and hence I prefer the bloke who makes the more ”aggressive” mistakes than the passive ones.

 

[Kostov]

I have such a sick feeling regarding Maguire... now I'm thinking more and more, what was going through our heads to spend 80m on this guy? And now, because we did that, the politics of it all is stopping us from correcting the mistake. I fear we'll be stuck with him for many years, trying different combinations when really, he is the problem.

Can your best CB by a mile really be the problem, when we can't find a competent or fit partner and no proper CDM?

 

[SuperiorXI]

Can your best CB by a mile really be the problem, when we can't find a competent or fit partner and no proper CDM?

We could buy the greatest CB in the world to partner Maguire... that won't stop him playing the whole Everton attack onside in the last minute of a match. He's just not good enough. Consistently makes mistakes and then talks like he's the dogs bollocks.

 

[Kostov]

Ha ha. I said yesterday, I have my bias but in that situation it would’ve no doubt been the “right” thing to do. My bias comes in that I think he does in every situation, and hence I prefer the bloke who makes the more ”aggressive” mistakes than the passive ones.

I think it was a split second and some are over analyzing the situation which he recovered and he and his partner dealt with it. His mistakes previous to that were much much worse and thankfully didn't cost us, maybe due to rustiness but that's what is worrying me more than this maybe calculated risk he took.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think it was a split second and some are over analyzing the situation which he recovered and he and his partner dealt with it.

Absolutely, was never any danger.

 

[jem]

We could buy the greatest CB in the world to partner Maguire... that won't stop him playing the whole Everton attack onside in the last minute of a match. He's just not good enough. Consistently makes mistakes and then talks like he's the dogs bollocks.

Weird timing considering he played well against Sociedad. What has he said? I genuinely must have missed it.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Weird timing considering he played well against Sociedad. What has he said? I genuinely must have missed it.

Not surprising, the EL is probably his level. He won't cut it against top-level opposition.

 

[Kostov]

We could buy the greatest CB in the world to partner Maguire... that won't stop him playing the whole Everton attack onside in the last minute of a match. He's just not good enough. Consistently makes mistakes and then talks like he's the dogs bollocks.

You mean the situation in which Lindelof was in line to Keane as well and irrelevant whether Maguire played them onside, and actually there were other defender closer to the situation and failed to clear, and then Lindelof again losing the scorer and being nowhere near? Yeah let's blame that on Maguire.

 

[RkkMan]

Not surprising, the EL is probably his level. He won't cut it against top-level opposition.

We`ve beaten Leipzig, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs with him in the team with better luck we`d have beaten PSG at home(Fred and Ole cost us that game), reached a WC Semi Final with England with him being a key player and had a good number of cleansheets last season. He has his flaws but if we`ve been able to have that level of stability for a good amount of time he`s been here he`s doing SOMETHING right? He`s easily better than any CB we`ve had post Fergie era who`ve managed to "cut it" against its not ridiculously unrealistic to suggest a better CB partner improves him as the ones in the team dont cut it. Bailly for all his talent is injury prone and fitness is a very important aspect for a CB, Lindelof is just too soft to partner with ANY CB and Tuanzebe is not good enough

 

[jem]

Not surprising, the EL is probably his level. He won't cut it against top-level opposition.

I’m not totally sold on him (I’ve made a number of critics posts in this thread alone,) but he looks a different player playing next to Bailly.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I’m not totally sold on him (I’ve made a number of critics posts in this thread alone,) but he looks a different player playing next to Bailly.

Don't get me wrong, Harry Maguire is a good defender, but I don't think he should be our main CB and captain. I don't believe that he is good enough. I used to think he was, but I've changed my mind.

I like Bailly, it's a shame we've not been able to see him for an extended period because of his injuries...

 

[romufc]

Don't get me wrong, Harry Maguire is a good defender, but I don't think he should be our main CB and captain. I don't believe that he is good enough.

Why shouldn't he be captain?

Have you been in the dressing room or know what he is like outside the pitch?

 

[GueRed]

Good game last night.

Our best centre-back..

We need to bring in another good CB this summer to partner him at the back.

Lindelof is average, Bailly is a crock and Tuanzebe just isnt good enough im afraid.

 

[jem]

Why shouldn't he be captain?

Have you been in the dressing room or know what he is like outside the pitch?

Of course none of us has that access, but this is a message board where opinions are expressed - and a commonly-held one, which I happen to agree wtih, is that Harry Maguire doesn't exactly exude captain qualities (particularly when we've been lucky enough to have the likes of Keane in the past.) We also aren't privy to what happens in management meetings or on the training ground, but that doesn't stop us giving our opinions on Ole's tactical acumen or his team selections.

 

[romufc]

Of course none of us has that access, but this is a message board where opinions are expressed - and a commonly-held one, which I happen to agree wtih, is that Harry Maguire doesn't exactly exude captain qualities (particularly when we've been lucky enough to have the likes of Keane in the past.) We also aren't privy to what happens in management meetings or on the training ground, but that doesn't stop us giving our opinions on Ole's tactical acumen or his team selections.

Correct, which is why I asked why doesn't he think he should be captain?

Fans only say he shouldn't be captain because they do not believe in the manager, if this was Klopp or Pep and he was given the captaincy nothing would have been said about it.

Does Fernandinho strike as a captain to you? Or KDB?

What does captain qualities include in your opinion then?

 

[lex talionis]

The criticism of Maguire here is OTT. Yes, he’s no VVD and yes he’s in the shadow of Rio and Vidic but he’s a more than able CB for us.

I understand if that statement is seen as faint praise, but the reality is that he’s our best CB and if we’re going to dump we need to talk about bringing in two CBs as there’s no chance in Hades that we have a better defensive pair of CBs if we get rid of Maguire and bring in one CB to partner with Lindelof, Bailly or Tuanzebe.

 

[jem]

Correct, which is why I asked why doesn't he think he should be captain?

Fans only say he shouldn't be captain because they do not believe in the manager, if this was Klopp or Pep and he was given the captaincy nothing would have been said about it.

Does Fernandinho strike as a captain to you? Or KDB?

What does captain qualities include in your opinion then?

https://www.planetfootball.com/vide...ams-at-thiago-as-liverpool-concede-free-kick/

 

[SadlerMUFC]

He's tight up to Isak is he?


He's got 5 yards on him at least. And thats just what we see here. He steps up when he shouldn't and Isak meanders past him. Really por stuff. If he doesn't overly commit, Maguire can get back in position and the opportunity never happens. As it happens, Maguire does superbly well to make up the yards and get the tackle in before the shot.

Apparently Bailly is needed to make up for Maguire's lack of pace. Hmmm...

 

[OrcaFat]

Maguire sometimes makes mistakes, sometimes gets turned, sometimes gets done for pace, sometimes falls over, has the odd poor game.

That aside, I think he is absolutely brilliant. Great in the air, driving forward with the ball, good passing, commanding figure. He’s far from perfect but I think he’s been worth the dough. And will keep paying back for many years. Just got to find another decent CB to play with him.

 

[golden_blunder]

Don't get me wrong, Harry Maguire is a good defender, but I don't think he should be our main CB and captain. I don't believe that he is good enough. I used to think he was, but I've changed my mind.

I like Bailly, it's a shame we've not been able to see him for an extended period because of his injuries...

Harry maguire may or may not be good enough (depends what the bar is) but he’s certainly last in the list of centre backs that need to be booted out of the club

 

[SuperiorXI]

Harry maguire may or may not be good enough (depends what the bar is) but he’s certainly last in the list of centre backs that need to be booted out of the club

I agree which only highlights the issues we have there.

 

[prateik]

Played every single premier league game since he signed for us... which is amazing considering how none of our CBs are ever fit.

He might not be another Rio.. but he is the best we have had in years.. and he is always present.. AND.. he is the biggest goal threat we have had in a long time.. Probably more of a threat than Vidic (though he doesnt attack the ball like Vidic).. Also, the gets forward pretty well when we are in command..

A few errors in him.. but I'm glad we have him..

 

[mu4c_20le]

Not good enough tonight, defending was all over the place and looked hopeless in the air at both ends. Hopefully just an off night.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If only he has quick defender as partner. Then he would head that ball better.

 

[Kostov]

Shit clearance for their goal, luckily didn’t cost us the game

 

[Hammondo]

Not good. Not terrible. Standard Maguire.

 

[#07]

Shit clearance for their goal, luckily didn’t cost us the game

Yup. Bizarre decision making. If Maguire is not confident about getting distance on the ball he should just put it into touch. He drops the ball into the danger area. Big no, no.

Not good. Not terrible. Standard Maguire.

This. He's being saved by his £80m price tag and the fact the lad next to him is as soft as warm butter. When I think of United's best teams I don't believe Maguire would make the matchday squads. I'd take Wes Brown or David May over Maguire, Lindelof or any other centre back we have. 100%.