Sylar
Full Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2007
- Messages
- 40,440
What injury does he have? ass splints?
Bingo. Scored on his first start, played excellently against RBL at home - then subbed whenever he started to look a bit more tired, constantly subbed whenever the team needed Fernandes to come in and save their asses.I’m not buying the whole ‘he needs time to adapt’ explanation. I think his confidence got shot after he was frozen out of the team, and that’s on the manager.
I think he had a good initial start to his career here and was offering us something different, and then the more Ole made it clear that he wasn’t going to be used often, the more his performances and confidence suffered.
I’m surprised nobody else talks about it here. How do you expect a player to perform well when you’ve treated him like he’s surplus to requirements and showed him that he’ll never get ahead of others no matter what he does?Bingo. Scored on his first start, played excellently against RBL at home - then subbed whenever he started to look a bit more tired, constantly subbed whenever the team needed Fernandes to come in and save their asses.
He's been made the scapegoat. I really did think he'd get more chances in CM, but seems as though Ole's caution just won't allow it.
People don't care. They'd rather just say he's not as good as Fernandes and laugh because they said he'd never be good in the first place.I’m surprised nobody else talks about it here. How do you expect a player to perform well when you’ve treated him like he’s surplus to requirements and showed him that he’ll never get ahead of others no matter what he does?
I was going to say Bingo, but Adam beat me to it.I’m not buying the whole ‘he needs time to adapt’ explanation. I think his confidence got shot after he was frozen out of the team, and that’s on the manager.
I think he had a good initial start to his career here and was offering us something different, and then the more Ole made it clear that he wasn’t going to be used often, the more his performances and confidence suffered.
You do know that Donny has played more CL matches than Bruno and only a few less EL matches? Also he has played around 250 senior matches. Sure he can still grow as a player, but it's not like he's an inexperienced youngster.DVB is a developing player, not signed to be a starter as both Pogba and Bruno are ahead of him and more experienced so he needs to compete and show that he is worth a spot in the team.
agreed. If he doesn’t have the mental fortitude and attitude to come out the other side - then he will never make it at a top club.I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all these comments about Ole messing with his head and ruining his confidence by daring not to play him every week. I hope the guy makes it here but if he is such a lightweight that not being guaranteed first team football sends him into a slump then he frankly has no business being here.
DVB is a developing player, not signed to be a starter as both Pogba and Bruno are ahead of him and more experienced so he needs to compete and show that he is worth a spot in the team. To date Donny has been fairly ineffective when he plays, he is clearly uncomfortable played in an attacking position and struggles to get into the game but on the flip side he is clearly not a CDM as his tackling is atrocious. No doubt he would have been given a run of games with Pogba sidelined but sadly he has picked up an injury of his own which has cost him the chance.
I still hope he comes good but to blame his inadequacies on his fragile ego being damaged by not being handed a starting spot on a silver platter does him no favors. If he is going to succeed here then he needs to pull his socks up and work harder, get in the team and make a case for staying there. Greenwood did so last season with far fewer minutes to begin with, he impacted the games he came into and forced his way into the first team picture and DVB now has to do the same.
Not everybody’s temperament is the same, a good manager knows which players need an arm around their shoulder and which ones can be managed differently. Look at how Rashford and Martial’s form improved when Ole came in after Mourinho and instilled confidence in them. He instilled the exact opposite in VDB by freezing him out despite his good performances at the beginning of his tenure here.I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all these comments about Ole messing with his head and ruining his confidence by daring not to play him every week. I hope the guy makes it here but if he is such a lightweight that not being guaranteed first team football sends him into a slump then he frankly has no business being here.
DVB is a developing player, not signed to be a starter as both Pogba and Bruno are ahead of him and more experienced so he needs to compete and show that he is worth a spot in the team. To date Donny has been fairly ineffective when he plays, he is clearly uncomfortable played in an attacking position and struggles to get into the game but on the flip side he is clearly not a CDM as his tackling is atrocious. No doubt he would have been given a run of games with Pogba sidelined but sadly he has picked up an injury of his own which has cost him the chance.
I still hope he comes good but to blame his inadequacies on his fragile ego being damaged by not being handed a starting spot on a silver platter does him no favors. If he is going to succeed here then he needs to pull his socks up and work harder,
it does take time to adapt. The PL is a faster pace. Furthermore, it’s just the fact it’s a different team, different culture and different country.Not everybody’s temperament is the same, a good manager knows which players need an arm around their shoulder and which ones can be managed differently. Look at how Rashford and Martial’s form improved when Ole came in after Mourinho and instilled confidence in them. He instilled the exact opposite in VDB by freezing him out despite his good performances at the beginning of his tenure here.
It’s very easy to put the entire blame on a player just to deflect the manager from any criticism. Ole has gotten many things right since his arrival , but in my opinion (and many others here as well) his management of VDB has been wrong.
There is absolutely no evidence from his current or former managers that suggests that VDB does not work hard enough in training. I stand by my opinion: the whole ‘he needs time to adapt’ theory is nonsense. His confidence has been shot by a manager who has not instilled any trust in him.
summed up in a sentence exactly the situation.There’s a very simple path to the first team for him, don’t be shit when you play.
Yet players like Rashford, Martial, Fred, Lindelof, De gea etc can be as shit as they like but still get chance after chance.There’s a very simple path to the first team for him, don’t be shit when you play.
And later we'll wonder why players come to Old Trafford and immediately turn to shite, only to shine once they leave.Not everybody’s temperament is the same, a good manager knows which players need an arm around their shoulder and which ones can be managed differently. Look at how Rashford and Martial’s form improved when Ole came in after Mourinho and instilled confidence in them. He instilled the exact opposite in VDB by freezing him out despite his good performances at the beginning of his tenure here.
It’s very easy to put the entire blame on a player just to deflect the manager from any criticism. Ole has gotten many things right since his arrival , but in my opinion (and many others here as well) his management of VDB has been wrong.
There is absolutely no evidence from his current or former managers that suggests that VDB does not work hard enough in training. I stand by my opinion: the whole ‘he needs time to adapt’ theory is nonsense. His confidence has been shot by a manager who has not instilled any trust in him.
I just can't agree. There is no evidence his confidence has been shot, that is just pure speculation on the part of those who seem determined to stan for Donny. The empirical evidence we do have is 26 appearances so far this season in which he has so far shown he is not good enough to get in the team, there has been no decline over the course of the season as he was poor from the start. I hope he finds his feet and pushes on but so far he looks like a waste of money.Not everybody’s temperament is the same, a good manager knows which players need an arm around their shoulder and which ones can be managed differently. Look at how Rashford and Martial’s form improved when Ole came in after Mourinho and instilled confidence in them. He instilled the exact opposite in VDB by freezing him out despite his good performances at the beginning of his tenure here.
It’s very easy to put the entire blame on a player just to deflect the manager from any criticism. Ole has gotten many things right since his arrival , but in my opinion (and many others here as well) his management of VDB has been wrong.
There is absolutely no evidence from his current or former managers that suggests that VDB does not work hard enough in training. I stand by my opinion: the whole ‘he needs time to adapt’ theory is nonsense. His confidence has been shot by a manager who has not instilled any trust in him.
And yet everyone of those players bar Rashford have been rotatedYet players like Rashford, Martial, Fred, Lindelof, De gea etc can be as shit as they like but still get chance after chance.
Makes sense.
There’s a difference between being rotated and being frozen out.And yet everyone of those players bar Rashford have been rotated
I don't see 26 appearances as frozen out. He has played in more than half of our games this season and that is even allowing for the time he has missed with injuries. If you think he is frozen out Jesse Lingard would like a word.There’s a difference between being rotated and being frozen out.
He has featured in 26 games this season. That is far from being frozen out.There’s a difference between being rotated and being frozen out.
the posts above show that he’s far from been frozen out. He’s currently injured, and as i said earlier would have no doubt played games over the past few weeks.There’s a difference between being rotated and being frozen out.
He's played 1053 minutes in 26 matches, which means an average of 40 minutes and 30 seconds per game(Only 24 minutes in the PL). That's really low. Ole might have reasons for it, but i really doesn't allow DVB to show himself or even get "match fit".How many of those “appearances” have been late substitutions? Quite a few. How many of his starts have been in the PL? Very few. How many of his appearances have been with Fernandes and Pogba from the start of the match. I doubt it would be even one, but maybe one.
When you’re brought on in the 86th minute you’re really thrown into shit. Sometimes it’s to close out a winning position, so nothing much is expected excepted to run the clock out. Sometimes it’s to snatch a late winner, but by then hope is shattered and there not much you can do.
Ole as manager has every right to freeze out anyone of the squad. It’s only a suggestion, but we might as well sell Donny in the summer to make room for a player Ole feels can contribute to the squad. Seriously, we have not been so amazing this season, so full of incredible talent, that Donny just can’t get a game, a full 90, in.
He's played 1053 minutes in 26 matches, which means an average of 40 minutes and 30 seconds per game(Only 24 minutes in the PL). That's really low. Ole might have reasons for it, but i really doesn't allow DVB to show himself or even get "match fit".
A midfield of VdB, Pogba and Bruno? Really? This isn't FIFA.How many of those “appearances” have been late substitutions? Quite a few. How many of his starts have been in the PL? Very few. How many of his appearances have been with Fernandes and Pogba from the start of the match. I doubt it would be even one, but maybe one.
When you’re brought on in the 86th minute you’re really thrown into shit. Sometimes it’s to close out a winning position, so nothing much is expected excepted to run the clock out. Sometimes it’s to snatch a late winner, but by then hope is shattered and there not much you can do.
Ole as manager has every right to freeze out anyone of the squad. It’s only a suggestion, but we might as well sell Donny in the summer to make room for a player Ole feels can contribute to the squad. Seriously, we have not been so amazing this season, so full of incredible talent, that Donny just can’t get a game, a full 90, in.
Well, only one of those plays in the same position. And he’s been worse than any of them.Yet players like Rashford, Martial, Fred, Lindelof, De gea etc can be as shit as they like but still get chance after chance.
Makes sense.
You can't compare McT with VDB. McT is one of the chosen who's played in 23 of our 27 league games and I'm betting all the Cup games unless injured. The only time McT doesn't play is when he's being rested for an important game the next match. Of course McT is always going to be motivated.it does take time to adapt. The PL is a faster pace. Furthermore, it’s just the fact it’s a different team, different culture and different country.
I doubt anyone is saying he doesn’t work hard enough - but that doesn’t mean he’s working well enough.
What do you think The manager could have done differently?
we 6 midfielders for 3 positions. He was never going to immediately start. Look at someone like McT who doesn’t start every match - but you can see he often makes an impact when he plays.
you can’t be suggesting that he should have been given a free run in the team irrespective of form, training performance and how he actually plays on the pitch?
Nothing shows anything, it’s all a matter of opinion and agenda. I can have 26 appearances and be brought in for only several minutes in most of these appearances or play with the B team, while another player can start only 15 times but play 90 minutes with the strong team. If he wasn’t frozen out we wouldn’t even be having this debate.the posts above show that he’s far from been frozen out. He’s currently injured, and as i said earlier would have no doubt played games over the past few weeks.
That wasn’t the point. You said if he wasn’t shit when he played, he’d stay in the team...Well, only one of those plays in the same position. And he’s been worse than any of them.
It applies more to players who have better options in their position. Rashford’s competition has been considerably worse than him all season. Bailly is injured half the time etc. The players you listed have all had better performances than Van De Beek this season, no competition or have far greater pedigree. In some cases they have all three. Lindelof being shit and still playing is because he doesn’t have players of the quality of Pogba and Bruno in his position.That wasn’t the point. You said if he wasn’t shit when he played, he’d stay in the team...
That only applies to Donny and not to all players?
Unfair to judge him when he only gets thrown a start to rest Bruno and then it’s back on the bench for a month... That’s nothing like being rotated - he’s never been given a chance.
Which suggests the answer is probably never. It's actually not unheard of for top midfielders to play together.A midfield of VdB, Pogba and Bruno? Really? This isn't FIFA.
Most of his cupgames are 60-90min, and he hasn't produced much there so far.
frozen out. Don’t be so bloody dramatic you drama Queen.Nothing shows anything, it’s all a matter of opinion and agenda. I can have 26 appearances and be brought in for only several minutes in most of these appearances or play with the B team, while another player can start only 15 times but play 90 minutes with the strong team. If he wasn’t frozen out we wouldn’t even be having this debate.
Well, he isnt good enough. Atleast yet.I’m not buying the whole ‘he needs time to adapt’ explanation. I think his confidence got shot after he was frozen out of the team, and that’s on the manager.
I think he had a good initial start to his career here and was offering us something different, and then the more Ole made it clear that he wasn’t going to be used often, the more his performances and confidence suffered.
Well in that case no more complaining about Ole not being backed.Well, he isnt good enough. Atleast yet.
Playing him could damage our point tally. If Ole was playing him more and he was dogshite, wouldnt that be on the manger too? He cant really do nothing right ,Ole? It has to be his fault ....