Would Moyes have really done any worse?

Trouserjazz

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Is it beyond the realms of possibly that he could have eaked out slightly better positions than we have had in our worst seasons since he left, no, but is it certain? Absolutely not given taking the champions to not even qualifing for Europe while breaking our record transfer fee was possibly the lowest we have been since SAF.

Then you have to consider would suffering his unique brand of self pitying yet arrogant interviews be worth it for a league position or two. He is never in a million years a title winning manger and personally it's highly doubtful we get the FA cup. league cup or Europa league titles which have been the highlights of post SAF United.

Honestly Im biased ,Moyes getting sacked was honestly one of the happiest days of my life. Just how bad he was without anyway near the cristicism that all the managera since have received. The 'he needs more time' line that was parrotted across the media was sickening.

When LVG and Jose went I felt it was justified but sad in its way. Moyes going was just sheer elation. So just on my gut feeling I'm going to say no we would not have been better under that clown.
 

The Red Thinker

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All these idiotic threads needs the right treatment. Vast amounts of trolling and copious amounts of belittlement. Moyes found his level. Ole has his.
 

Tribec

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I'll be honest, I defended Moyes till he was sacked, we look back at the team the previous season and they'd won the league, but the drop off the following season can't all be placed on Moyes head. It was probably Fergie's weakest team, and had he stayed on he'd have started the rebuild of a new team, which is possibly another reason which can be added to why he retired when he did. Let's be fair, none of the players seemed willing to want to run through walls for the team as they had done under Fergie and of course under Fergie had they shown that attitude they'd be dropped and then sold asap.

Would Moyes be United manager today had we given him a bit more time? I doubt it, but I think he could of at least done better in his second season. However, it wasn't to be his time with us will always be seen as a disaster. We never will probably never know if Fergie had suggested other managers of whom are managing in the Premier League now, who may have turned us down, and so left Moyes in the position of being the chosen one. With Gill going as well it was the perfect storm to end United's era of dominance over the league. What upsets me the most is that the club allowed history to repeat itself in the way we followed what happened to the club after Busby retired.
 

GoldTrafford99

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The day we sacked Moyes was the day we turned into the joke we have been, until Woodward finally saw the light and hired Ole...

We are - and always should be - a long-term strategic football club.

We should never be hiring managers for the now! We should be hiring managers to run us long-term.

Alex Ferguson was incensed when Moyes was fired...
 

Wewinsoon

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Ole is doing such a good job, Hope he gets to bring in a cm/cdm, attacker and a wingback Who is good enough to play both sides and good enough to start All games. Moyes was an insane stupid pick, People Are saying Ole have No tactic, but Moyes tactic don't belong in a club like ours.
 

Chairman Steve

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I’ve always thought he doomed himself by axing SAF’s coaching staff. One of my best mates, who is an Everton fan, was quite surprised that we actually hired him as he and a few of his own Everton supporting mates were hoping to get rid of Moyes as early as 2010 because the stagnation was setting in.
 

GazTheLegend

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How many times has David Moyes beaten Manchester City in his entire career, out of a genuine interest?
 

hmchan

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You can't expect any kind of logical discussion when it comes to Moyes. I've tried several times.
 

stubie

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He is what Óscar Tabárez was to Milan after Capello.

A complete disaster
 

Jonno

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Had we known we'd have needed to re-boot under Solskjaer back in 2013, somebody like a Moyes could have been good for us. I say like a Moyes. Not Moyes for me..... What I didn't enjoy, was how he would lie to fans in post-match interviews, saying that we played very well or played a certain way. It appeared to make him look deluded. He also looked out of his depth with no answers and we were in free-fall, similar to Klopp at Liverpool now, Ranieri at Leicester, etc. So I think we needed to sack him in an urgent attempt to fast-track our return to the top.

Like I say, had we known then what we truly needed, somebody like a Moyes, a Solskjaer would have slowly stabilised and steered the club in the correct direction, instead of us crashing against rocks and being left with a playing squad miss mashed by 4 managers. Only this past 12 months are we starting to have an identity and a direction going forward.
 

dinostar77

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I’ve always thought he doomed himself by axing SAF’s coaching staff. One of my best mates, who is an Everton fan, was quite surprised that we actually hired him as he and a few of his own Everton supporting mates were hoping to get rid of Moyes as early as 2010 because the stagnation was setting in.
Agreed, axing fergies coaching staff was a huge mistake. Trying to bring in Everton training methods and disregarding the training methods that had proved so successful was another.

He is painstakingly slow over deciding on whether to move for a player, of which there are numerous stories at everton. Also he didnt sign off on the Thiago deal, which by thiago's own admission was done under fergie. Allegedly fergie had a double deal lined up with benfica for that summer which fell through when moyes arrived.

Got seduced by woodwards delusions that we could nab Fabregas and Bale that summer. Maybe if Gill had stayed on then Moyes first few signings would have been different.

In the end, the club made a mistake allowing fergie a say in his successor. Fergie made a mistake in believing a fellow scotsman could take over the reigns.

Moyes was out of his depth at Utd.
 

Siorac

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You can't expect any kind of logical discussion when it comes to Moyes. I've tried several times.
You absolutely can. But if your conclusion isn't that Moyes was never going to be good enough for Manchester United, then you're simply wrong.
 

Tony247

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"I don't know what we have to do to win. We played well today."

"Four straight wins is a great record to get, but obviously they are coming to Old Trafford and we are going to make it as hard for them as we possibly can." - about Newcastle.

"Their league position suggests they are ahead of us and they possibly do come here as favourites. Liverpool are having a very good season and we will have to do everything we possibly can to beat them." - original sin.

"I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to." - City, who else?

And the best
"I actually think if Sir Alex was here this year it would be difficult for Sir Alex as well, and I'm sure he'd be aware of it."

A gentle reminder...Moyes ladies and gentlemen!


 

Maticmaker

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Moyes was out of his depth at Utd.
This says it all!
From the teams he put out, and the way they played, to the way he handled the pre-season off the field, to the pre and post match interviews; everything about his stay at United was signaling a 'drowning man' syndrome'.
 

Lentwood

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81 crosses against Fulham. 81. Untenable.

I mean...in all fairness...we created loads of half-chances from those crosses!

It's never really a tactic I want to see United rely on but I do think sometimes if you have the opportunity to put the ball into the box first time you should take it. The crosses I don't like to see are when a player takes two/three touches and crosses from a static position. That's bread and butter for a PL defence to deal with.
 

Tony247

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I mean...in all fairness...we created loads of half-chances from those crosses!

It's never really a tactic I want to see United rely on but I do think sometimes if you have the opportunity to put the ball into the box first time you should take it. The crosses I don't like to see are when a player takes two/three touches and crosses from a static position. That's bread and butter for a PL defence to deal with.
Of course you create half chances here and there when you lump 81 crosses for full 90 minutes in the box hopelessly hoping your team member would connect.

But chances, scoring or even winning is not a point. It just shows moyes was clueless, out of depth at this level. That is not how united supposed to play football. That is the point.
 

Lynty

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He took an early vacation before his most important job in his career, he axed the coaching staff, had bizarre transfer targets, clashed with senior members of the squad and by many accounts reduced training quality to amateur level. Doing it all without a hint of long term plan.

He doomed himself. The results were secondary.

LVG, Jose and Ole at least had a system, plan or philosophy (right ot wrong). Moyes was winging it
 
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Nikelesh Reddy

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You look at what he’s doing with West Ham now. If we had stuck with him rather than getting rid I think we’d now be in a much better position than we currently are. Which granted wouldn’t be difficult because we are fecking dreadful.
Ofcourse he would have.He would have crippled us for years to come....He was clearly not cut out to manage a club like United
 

Lentwood

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Of course you create half chances here and there when you lump 81 crosses for full 90 minutes in the box hopelessly hoping your team member would connect.

But chances, scoring or even winning is not a point. It just shows moyes was clueless, out of depth at this level. That is not how united supposed to play football. That is the point.
I agree but my point was that crosses are a viable method for creating chances and we need to be careful we don't eradicate them from our game completely. United teams under SAF always had that goal threat from crosses and it's a good way of making sure teams don't drop too deep.

The crosses we should avoid are the one's I described - were a player takes three/four touches and then throws a delivery in against a set defence.

The crosses that we should utilise are the crosses a player swings in first-time, before the defence can get set and also the crosses were a player hits the touchline and is able to pull the ball back into the path of the on-rushing attackers, who then have a significant advantage.
 

032Devil

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You look at what he’s doing with West Ham now. If we had stuck with him rather than getting rid I think we’d now be in a much better position than we currently are. Which granted wouldn’t be difficult because we are fecking dreadful.
He made fundamental mistakes.

The first one being his blind loyalty to his staff at Everton and promoting then over Sir Alex's backroom staff who were proven winners of Premierships and cups. He bought one player and he too was from his former club. A above average player and not a world-class player, the type United buy. Moyes managed average clubs and made them better and managed United, one of the top clubs in the world, like an average club.

Giggs would probably have been a better manager. He understood United better.
 

esmufc07

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He made fundamental mistakes.

The first one being his blind loyalty to his staff at Everton and promoting then over Sir Alex's backroom staff who were proven winners of Premierships and cups. He bought one player and he too was from his former club. A above average player and not a world-class player, the type United buy. Moyes managed average clubs and made them better and managed United, one of the top clubs in the world, like an average club.

Giggs would probably have been a better manager. He understood United better.
Giggs is a wife beating scumbag though.
 

AshRK

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He was a shit manager for us. He took over a Manchester United side who were champions and were a dominant side but tried to turn us into everton 2.0.
 

hobbers

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We'd have 3 trophies less had we stuck with Moyes, no doubt about that.

Granted I don't think our league positions would have been drastically different.
 

stevoc

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Agreed, axing fergies coaching staff was a huge mistake. Trying to bring in Everton training methods and disregarding the training methods that had proved so successful was another.

He is painstakingly slow over deciding on whether to move for a player, of which there are numerous stories at everton. Also he didnt sign off on the Thiago deal, which by thiago's own admission was done under fergie. Allegedly fergie had a double deal lined up with benfica for that summer which fell through when moyes arrived.

Got seduced by woodwards delusions that we could nab Fabregas and Bale that summer. Maybe if Gill had stayed on then Moyes first few signings would have been different.

In the end, the club made a mistake allowing fergie a say in his successor. Fergie made a mistake in believing a fellow scotsman could take over the reigns.

Moyes was out of his depth at Utd.
Woodward went after the players Moyes wanted almost all summer, they weren't Woodwards targets. It was only after 2 months of dithering that the club decided to step in and tried to sign DeRossi, Khedira, Herrera, Coentrao etc. in a desperate deadline day scatter gun approach to at least get someone in. We signed Fellaini for £5m for than we could have simply because Moyes wanted to sign a bigger name 1st and then Fellaini 2nd.
 

rotherham_red

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You look at what he’s doing with West Ham now. If we had stuck with him rather than getting rid I think we’d now be in a much better position than we currently are. Which granted wouldn’t be difficult because we are fecking dreadful.
Dreadful? We're 2nd and have clear areas where we know we need to improve. If this is dreadful, what do you make of the previous 6-7 years?

And this is the David Moyes who relegated Sunderland, got sacked by Sociedad, and who was so good that West Ham didn't bother giving him a new contract the first time round.

Dearie me, you've had a shocker here :houllier:
 

FrankDrebin

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81 crosses against Fulham. 81. Untenable.

Did Fellaini, his star signing and one who he knew how to utilize effectively, play in this game ?
I mean, this should've been heaven for the lanky Belgium.
 

Grande

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Moyes has one good season with West ham after years of absolute stinking failure and single handedly collapsing the notion of United as a team to fear and Old Trafford as a place to fear. Every single manager since has been picking up the pieces of the destruction of the club.

Delete this car crash thread.
This thread should be kept alive, as a reminder to us all that if we forget history, we will be bound to repeat it.