Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time

MalcolmTucker

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Please explain how he'd be able to run circles against them when he'd be injured and carried of the field on a stretcher ?!?
There were no yellow and red cards back then, remember ?!!! They'd literally break his legs. And even if he'd somehow survive that, he wouldn't have anywhere the ball control he has now since he'd have to use a heavier ball, boots while playing on an uneven and bumpy pitch.
Is Messi made out of different stuff to players in the 60s? If the likes of Garrincha, who was bow-legged and clinically disabled could run rings around defenders without being stretchered off then Messi, who has normal legs and had a near immaculate injury record for 12+ years would be fine.

I'm sure he'd have a few more impact injuries but claiming he'd have broken legs is daft because the likes of Pele, Garrincha, Best et al. were able to run circles against defenders of that era without getting constantly injured and two of them were alcoholics. Plus Messi has among the greatest football IQs in the game, he'd know when to pass and when to dribble to avoid injury.
 

Bogdannn

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Is Messi made out of different stuff to players in the 60s? If the likes of Garrincha, who was bow-legged and clinically disabled could run rings around defenders without being stretchered off then Messi, who has normal legs and had a near immaculate injury record for 12+ years would be fine.

I'm sure he'd have a few more impact injuries but claiming he'd have broken legs is daft because the likes of Pele, Garrincha, Best et al. were able to run circles against defenders of that era without getting constantly injured and two of them were alcoholics. Plus Messi has among the greatest football IQs in the game, he'd know when to pass and when to dribble to avoid injury.
Pele, Garrincha and Best grew up with that sort of bad treatment, they were used to it and their bodies adapted to the constant fouling. Messi is not used to it and would start panicking the moment they hit him hard to the point that he'd be afraid to even attempt to dribble. Not to mention that Messi would be a midget in that era, since nobody would give him growth hormones.
 

Sky1981

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I'd say it's harder to play these days. Most PL or Serie A or la la liga are full time pro with international caps instead of 1 dominant team and the rest filled with cannon fodders and cricket team.

Santos was a great team, who was their competition? Madrid in Stefano era? Apart from maradonna with napoli most of the old greats have their own easy ride. Tricks arent well discovered, tactics are pretty simple back then, play is more open with no DM of sort. The defender they faced sometimes are just local players. Cup competitions consists of smaller teams and one champion only insteaf of the grueling 58 games a season the modern striker have.
 

MalcolmTucker

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Pele, Garrincha and Best grew up with that sort of bad treatment, they were used to it and their bodies adapted to the constant fouling. Messi is not used to it and would start panicking the moment they hit him hard to the point that he'd be afraid to even attempt to dribble. Not to mention that Messi would be a midget in that era, since nobody would give him growth hormones.
And Messi would also grow up with that bad treatment and adapt to it. Garrincha didn't even play competitive football until he was 19, he managed to adapt to it quickly despite being a disabled, intellectually subnormal alcoholic/smoker. Plus he'd be getting hit by other alcoholics and smokers, not highly tuned athletes who are faster, stronger and fitter. The idea of Messi being too afraid to dribble is complete conjecture and based on absolutely nothing so is pointless to add to this debate, unless your whole argument is based on Messi sans HGH treatment, which it obviously isn't.
 
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Bogdannn

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And Messi would also grow up with that treatment and adapt to it. Garrincha didn't even play competitive football until he was 19, he managed to adapt to it quickly despite being a disabled, intellectually subnormal alcoholic/smoker. Plus he'd be getting hit by other alcoholics and smokers, not highly tuned athletes who are faster, stronger and fitter. The idea of Messi being too afraid to dribble is complete conjecture and based on absolutely nothing so is pointless to add to this debate, unless your whole argument is based on Messi sans HGH treatment, which it obviously isn't.
Of course Messi would get no HGH treatment, there was none back then. And even in this era, him receiving that treatment is almost as cheating.
 

MalcolmTucker

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Of course Messi would get no HGH treatment, there was none back then. And even in this era, him receiving that treatment is almost as cheating.
I don't want to derail this thread any further so this will be my final post but the fact you think a child receiving treatment which allowed him to go through a healthy puberty is cheating is pretty grotesque and highlights exactly the sort of person I'm engaging with.

Just realised you're the same guy who thinks Messi is incapable of doing an elastico then claimed they used to be a professional footballer.. I'll leave you to it :lol:
 

VanKenny

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This is a CR7 thread, right?
The thread title is "Should CR7 go down as a top 5-6 player of all time..."

Naturally, there's going to be conversations about other players, people are going to come in with their rankings, statistics, etc. Its annoying how some people come into threads expecting it to be specifically and solely about the one player being named at the title.

What do you want, 10 pages of people just saying "yes" or "no" to the title question?
 

Water Melon

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Why on Earth would I expect pages regarding Messi's growth hormones. Not a word about Ronaldo.
 

amolbhatia50k

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The real question is, whether Ronaldo is among the greatest ever 5-6 players at pulling off the elastico. All this extensive debate is unecessary. Life is simpler than you guys think.
 

Bogdannn

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I don't want to derail this thread any further so this will be my final post but the fact you think a child receiving treatment which allowed him to go through a healthy puberty is cheating is pretty grotesque and highlights exactly the sort of person I'm engaging with.
If you'd have used your brain to try to understand why I said that, you wouldn't have come up with this stupid reply.
You should have done some research of the way HGH affects the body. One of the effects is increased limbs, in Messi's case show size. He wears size 10, which is huge for someone so small as him. That extra shoe size coupled with his small stature and thus low center of gravity helps him be way more stable of his feet when he's dribbling, that's why I said it is cheating.
 

RedRonaldo

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The real question is, whether Ronaldo is among the greatest ever 5-6 players at pulling off the elastico. All this extensive debate is unecessary. Life is simpler than you guys think.
He is definitely my top 3 in terms of pulling off elastico, rabona and whiplash etc :drool:



Enjoy:drool:
 
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Wilt

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Easily top 3 of all time.

If there was such a thing as a world wide poll, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was voted greatest ever.
 

Pocho

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Pele, Garrincha and Best grew up with that sort of bad treatment, they were used to it and their bodies adapted to the constant fouling. Messi is not used to it and would start panicking the moment they hit him hard to the point that he'd be afraid to even attempt to dribble. Not to mention that Messi would be a midget in that era, since nobody would give him growth hormones.
Oh Dear Lord
 

SirMarcusRashford

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Top 4 for me, along with Pele, Maradona and Messi.

I've never seen anything like Ronaldo/Messi in my lifetime. I can remember Maradona back end of his career, but don't remember his prime unfortunately.

The only other player who comes close to the above 4 (in terms of legacy) is Cryuff, from the YouTube videos i've seen of him and things I've read, he was amazing. It would have been fantastic to see his career in todays world (better TV coverage/internet/YouTube/Social Media).

Even though (as said) i never saw his whole of his career, Maradona would be my GOAT. I try to look at it this way, all players in their prime, you had 1st pick of anyone to go on your team who would you choose? There's cases for any of the above 5, but Maradona would be my pick, he and Messi was very alike (height/skill/dribbling/speed) and that they was the most natural gifted footballers to ever play the game, but i just think prime Maradona had that something more in terms of drive and hunger, hence Argentina's 2 World Cups.
 
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TwoSheds

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Top 4 for me, along with Pele, Maradona and Messi.

I've never seen anything like Ronaldo/Messi in my lifetime. I can remember Maradona back end of his career, but don't remember his prime unfortunately.

The only other player who comes close to the above 4 (in terms of legacy) is Cryuff, from the YouTube videos i've seen of him and things I've read, he was amazing. It would have been fantastic to see his career in todays world (better TV coverage/internet/YouTube/Social Media).

Even though (as said) i never saw his whole of his career, Maradona would be my GOAT. I try and look at it this way, all players in their prime, you had 1st pick of anyone to go on your team who would you choose? Cases for any of the above 5 could be argued, but Maradona would be my pick.
Try George Best, Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho.
 

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Why would you make a poll with people who have no knowledge of football in first place. It would be a popularity contest with ignorant people voting for the player with most marketing, and, in that case, CR7 is the one for sure.
 

SirMarcusRashford

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Try George Best, Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho.
Brazilian Ronaldo, is always 'a what if' with him (if his knee never exploaded), you can't be the greatest of all time, just on merit and 'a what if'.

Ronaldihno, one of the best and my favorite ever players I've seen in my lifetime, but never had the battery life to be considered amongst the top 5 i named.

George Best would be in my top 10.
 
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Daysleeper

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Why would you “highly” doubt that? ....who else then?
I feel like worldwide despite Ronaldo’s popularity I still think Messi, maradona and maybe even pele (though he’s probably from too long ago) may nick It.

Messi vs Ronaldo has over a million votes and has Messi comfortably winning and even this forum has Messi winning:

https://messivsronaldo.net/

(You’ll need to select “have your say” section from the site and scroll down and you’ll see the poll) it also seems far more footballers and pundits have Messi over ronaldo all time.
But I don’t think what you’re saying is absurd or anything, far from it. But I also wonder if ten years from now when Messi or Ronaldo as the goat starts to change once the next generation that grows up without them has their say. But then again we’ve had people on here go to great lengths analyzing George best and pele so who knows :lol:
 

Gehrman

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If you'd have used your brain to try to understand why I said that, you wouldn't have come up with this stupid reply.
You should have done some research of the way HGH affects the body. One of the effects is increased limbs, in Messi's case show size. He wears size 10, which is huge for someone so small as him. That extra shoe size coupled with his small stature and thus low center of gravity helps him be way more stable of his feet when he's dribbling, that's why I said it is cheating.
Size 10 isnt huge for someone like him. It's large yes, but not huge. Anyway I appreciate the picture of Messi's secret formula to succes being a midget with huge feet. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

KeanoMagicHat

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I had Cristiano as maybe making top 10 a few years ago, but then that 2017 CL season really elevated him for me.

Scoring 5 against Bayern Munich (even if one was offside/questionable if I remember), 3 against Atletico and then 2 in the final against Juventus. That was one of the best closing stretches to a CL ever, maybe the very best. That and the fact he keeps scoring so much for so long, even at 36, you have to respect that.

So I would have to put him 4th in my all-time list. I just feel like Pele, Maradona and Messi are an other level in terms of ability on the pitch. Being ahead of Cruyff, Di Stefano and Beckenbauer though is some achievement. Also Eusebio would have probably thought he'd be Portugal's greatest player forever but Ronaldo has also passed him out.

Brazilian Ronaldo, is always 'a what if' with him (if his knee never exploaded), you can't be the greatest of all time, just on merit and 'a what if'.
If you gave Ronaldo the durability of Cristiano Ronaldo, and the modern CL where the top 4 qualify instead of only champions or 1st and 2nd for most of Ronaldo's peak, who knows what might have happened?

Cristiano has now played 442 more games than Ronaldo, that's a massive amount. Ronaldo's goal average is better than Cristiano internationally and much more impactful goals. If Ronaldo plays 1050 games like Cristiano, scoring at the same clip as he did in his career, he would have scored 720 career goals. It's a shame we never saw that.
 
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Bebestation

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I'm going to get destroyed for asking about this because people are going to say I'm deluded by my fan aspects of C Ronaldo; nevertheless who cares what people think of me.

Can I ask this : Has C Ronaldo had an influence on the Portugal National team? Portugal always had class players in my eyes (one favourite was Rui Costa) but sometimes it felt like the National team was never fully complete.

However, I look at the National team now and look at the wingers/forwards Jaoa Felix, Jota, Neto, Andre Silva, Concenciao, Trincao, Silva and so many more. I look at the midfielders and there is Bruno, Bernado silva, Neves, Palhinha, Viera, Braganca etc. There is fantastic fullbacks like the ones at Leicester and City and the youngster at Sporting.

Has this at all been influenced by Ronaldo's successful move from Portugal to England. Has it been influenced by a Portugal player being one of the two best players in the world for a decade? Has it been influenced by Ronaldo's change of style through out his career such as him making the inverted forward style as a winger (influencing the creating of more inverted forwards) as well as his straight striker abilities?

The last thing I want to say is that SAF had made a comment how one of his most important aspects of management was that he would always target players that had his style mentality. For me, the reason I value Ronaldo as the best player I have ever seen is purely because of his mentality. His mentality that he can adapt to tactics and leagues and change his gameplay through out his career to purely win a match or trophies. Has his winning type of mentality had an effect on the Portugal National team?

Its okay if it hasnt and it has no influence by C Ronaldo (arguably the best Portuguese player of all time imo) - I'm just very interested in the Portugal national team right now and it is looking like I giant that is being created in terms of quantity and quality.
 

Bogdannn

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Size 10 isnt huge for someone like him. It's large yes, but not huge. Anyway I appreciate the picture of Messi's secret formula to succes being a midget with huge feet. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now you're just being ironical.Of course that's not all there is to being great, far from it, but it definitely matters. It gives him an edge over footballers similar in stature.
 

Lord SInister

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Pele, Garrincha and Best grew up with that sort of bad treatment, they were used to it and their bodies adapted to the constant fouling. Messi is not used to it and would start panicking the moment they hit him hard to the point that he'd be afraid to even attempt to dribble. Not to mention that Messi would be a midget in that era, since nobody would give him growth hormones.

Why in a hypothetical situation you are bringing things like growth hormones?
Also if we are going via hypothetical situation, why are we assuming that Messi, Cristiano or any player from modern era wouldn't tweak their game to fit in. If Messi grew up in 1950s/60s, obviously his game would have had evolved accordingly. To say "oh he wouldn't be the same, he would be afraid to dribble because of hard tackles" is nothing but your assumption which is basically based on your bias against Messi or even CR7, because both have taken over your childhood idol R9.
 

Bogdannn

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Why in a hypothetical situation you are bringing things like growth hormones?
Also if we are going via hypothetical situation, why are we assuming that Messi, Cristiano or any player from modern era wouldn't tweak their game to fit in. If Messi grew up in 1950s/60s, obviously his game would have had evolved accordingly. To say "oh he wouldn't be the same, he would be afraid to dribble because of hard tackles" is nothing but your assumption which is basically based on your bias against Messi or even CR7, because both have taken over your childhood idol R9.
My point has always been R9 is better than them, peak vs peak. I did not say he is greater than them. Given their achievements, they have probably edged him in terms of greatness, but only by a small margin.
But they still haven't edged Pele and Maradona.
 

Gehrman

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For me.

Shared 1st place: Messi & Pelé
3rd: Maradonna
4th: C. Ronaldo
5th: Di Stefano
6th. Cryuff
 

TwoSheds

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Brazilian Ronaldo, is always 'a what if' with him (if his knee never exploaded), you can't be the greatest of all time, just on merit and 'a what if'.

Ronaldihno, one of the best and my favorite ever players I've seen in my lifetime, but never had the battery life to be considered amongst the top 5 i named.

George Best would be in my top 10.
George Best hit his peak at 22, how is he different to Ronaldinho?
 

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Easily top 3 of all time.

If there was such a thing as a world wide poll, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was voted greatest ever.
I wouldn't say easily. I would say arguably top 3 of all time. He doesn't easily get in the top 3 over Pele, Maradona and Messi. I say that because a lot of people are likely to put them 3 ahead of Ronaldo. If you are over 40 and have to choose then Maradona will likely nearly always get chosen. People over 40 will look at Pele how people in their late 20's will see Maradona, a little too young too see him play but still are aware of his greatness.

Ronaldo will be top 3 from most younger people as recency bias is always there. It's like the young generation saying LeBron is better than Jordan or Jay-Z is better than Pac or Rakim. Which is said because it's their era of the time.
 

RedRonaldo

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I had Cristiano as maybe making top 10 a few years ago, but then that 2017 CL season really elevated him for me.

Scoring 5 against Bayern Munich (even if one was offside/questionable if I remember), 3 against Atletico and then 2 in the final against Juventus. That was one of the best closing stretches to a CL ever, maybe the very best. That and the fact he keeps scoring so much for so long, even at 36, you have to respect that.

So I would have to put him 4th in my all-time list. I just feel like Pele, Maradona and Messi are an other level in terms of ability on the pitch. Being ahead of Cruyff, Di Stefano and Beckenbauer though is some achievement. Also Eusebio would have probably thought he'd be Portugal's greatest player forever but Ronaldo has also passed him out.



If you gave Ronaldo the durability of Cristiano Ronaldo, and the modern CL where the top 4 qualify instead of only champions or 1st and 2nd for most of Ronaldo's peak, who knows what might have happened?

Cristiano has now played 442 more games than Ronaldo, that's a massive amount. Ronaldo's goal average is better than Cristiano internationally and much more impactful goals. If Ronaldo plays 1050 games like Cristiano, scoring at the same clip as he did in his career, he would have scored 720 career goals. It's a shame we never saw that.
Thats a very big "if".
Aside from injuries, you really can't assume L.Ronaldo could score the huge amount of goal CR7 was scoring at age 30-36.

For your information, ever since L.Ronaldo in his 30s, he only managed 48 goals in 102 games (35 of them scored in Brazil league)..
In comparison, Ronaldo had over 300 goals in around 300 something games.

So, even if you triple amount of games L.Ronaldo would play, he still wouldn't score half as many as CR7, even he was only playing mostly in Brazil league, which was considered as lower level.

But yes, CR7 is at very least among top 4 GOAT, even from the most neutral observers. For some one who hate him or his football, would tend to rate him lower, fo someone who worship him or like his football, would tend to rate him higher.

For me he is definitely among top 3, maybe at 2nd or 3rd.

I could explain why.

For all players I've ever witnessed in my lifetime so far, he is definitely among top 2 (Messi and Ronaldo).

If we include all the past greats, and compare them by their achievements, stats, records, individual honours etc, he would be definitely among top 2 or 3 too (Pele, Messi and Ronaldo).

Now the biggest question left is, why is he better than Maradona?

Well the simple answer is, Maradona at 86 or around that period, (mid late 80s) was probably the greatest ever. But I've also witness his huge downfall from 90's onwards. Let's just say, it was a very disappointing 6 years of shite football from him (aside from all the bans on him for taking drugs of course). I couldn't forget those years, I was expecting to witness GOAT in action, but I keep getting disappointed over and over again for many games which last for very long period too, until he retired. And that's why both Messi and Ronaldo have easily exceed him, as their level never really drops, even they are already 33-36, and they still easily the best player in their respective league with highest output, and still playing at world class level. Maradona was completely done long before he reach their old age.
 
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Wilt

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I wouldn't say easily. I would say arguably top 3 of all time. He doesn't easily get in the top 3 over Pele, Maradona and Messi. I say that because a lot of people are likely to put them 3 ahead of Ronaldo. If you are over 40 and have to choose then Maradona will likely nearly always get chosen. People over 40 will look at Pele how people in their late 20's will see Maradona, a little too young too see him play but still are aware of his greatness.

Ronaldo will be top 3 from most younger people as recency bias is always there. It's like the young generation saying LeBron is better than Jordan or Jay-Z is better than Pac or Rakim. Which is said because it's their era of the time.
Yes agreed it most probably would boil down to age thing.

For me it would be Cruyff as the greatest, but he like many others are no longer current. Which is why i would ‘guess‘ in today’s world Ronaldo would top a world wide poll.
 

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One, very superficial: Ronaldo is tall and good looking so most men resent him more and prefer the small, uglier Messi. Ridiculously trivial reason, but a very human failing.
I’d really like to see a greatness/ugliness comparison table to justify that claim :drool:
 

harms

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Santos was a great team, who was their competition? Madrid in Stefano era?
Botafogo with Garrincha, Nilton Santos and Didi (and, lately, Jairzinho); Herrera’s Grande Inter & Rocco’s Milan that introduced the word catenaccio to world football; Benfica with Eusébio... and the list goes on.
 

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Botafogo with Garrincha, Nilton Santos and Didi (and, lately, Jairzinho); Herrera’s Grande Inter & Rocco’s Milan that introduced the word catenaccio to world football; Benfica with Eusébio... and the list goes on.
And Penarol too when they had Spencer, Goncalves, and Joya.
 

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Why is the thread title still suggesting top 5-6 players of all time?

He’s clearly top three, absolutely no doubt.

I mean who has him 5th or 6th?