The treatment on here of Marcus Rashford

[NZT-One]

Since you like to use Caf stats so much, Rashford has been voted MOTM in 4 games:

1. 5:0 home win against RB Leipzig, where he scored a hattrick - 9.7 rating;
2. 3:2 away win against Sheffield United - 8.0 rating;
3. 3:2 home win against Liverpool - 8.0 rating
4. 3-1 home win against Newcastle - 7.1 rating.

From all what I wrote, you picked the one thing, where you could accuse me of not "having my facts straight"? And you wonder why there isn't enough neutrality around this place...
Look, I wrote that "I don't remember a game where he was MotM", your (the cafs) votings doesn't change that, I mean, maybe I wouldn't have voted for him. Of course some are of the opinion that he was great here and there, otherwise we wouldn't have this very thread in the first place, right? I got it, in your opinion he has been really good. In my opinion he has been one of the best of a somewhat uninspired offense that looked more at it last year (for many reasons including the players and their play).

I'd also like to hear which players, apart from Luke Shaw, can objectively have an argument about performing more consistently than Marcus and Bruno. These 3 players are the catalyst for almost everything good in our team, surely every other member of the squad deserves much more criticism.

Again, I get your point, I even agree with your observation. But lets say, everybody is inconsistent and one is less inconsistent and therefor one of the best - then he was still inconsistent, right? And it wouldn't be unjust to point out that inconsistency. (I don't want to say everybody was inconsistent, I want to point out that somebody who is less bad than others is still bad, goes also the other way around, when everybody is great then the one being the least great isn't bad - relative terms against total terms)

It is about context and in my opinion, he hasn't really kicked on from last year (see more about that in the earlier post). Him being one of the better attackers we have doesn't really have much substance considering we are mostly disappointed with the offensive output AND having witnessed the same offense in the 1,5 before. And just for the record, Bruno and Rashford's story this year is the story of the whole team - results (output) is very good, performance not so much. And if everybody isn't convincing then the one who scores is easier to vote for than everybody else.


We don't have to argue about semantics here - I got it, you feel he is treated unjust by some on the forum. That's fine, your entitled to your own opinion. I am just trying to point out, that, for me, the player shouldn't be excluded from criticism just because he appears to be one of our better players. I would even bet that the player himself would agree with that statement. Being a 23 year old football player, he surely is very much keen on any information about how to improve. And there is room to improve, I think, regarding that, we all agree.

 

[Ali Dia]

I just want to make clear - I genuinely like him a lot, he seems like a top man who didn’t forget his roots. What he’s done is classy and seriously impressive. I want him to do very well here and i genuinely think he can be one of the best inside forwards in the world. I just don’t think he’s currently playing all that well even though he’s getting goals and saving our asses. I think our other forwards might be playing better if Rashford could link up better with them. I think we should be allowed to talk about that without people getting too worked up, me included!

I really don’t want to be known as some kind of Rashford hater To hate Rashford is to hate everything we stand for! It Doesn’t mean he isn’t frustrating sometimes!

 

[snk123]

He's playing with a bad injury and has outscored Martial n Cavani combined. That just shows how good he is.

When will this get old? He's played over 1500 more minutes than Cavani in the PL and over 1200 more minutes than Martial. Not saying Martial or Cavani have been good - just pointing out how ridiculous stats can get when you cherry pick them.

 

[Red00012]

When will this get old? He's played over 1500 more minutes than Cavani in the PL and over 1200 more minutes than Martial. Not saying Martial or Cavani have been good - just pointing out how ridiculous stats can get when you cherry pick them.

He’s playing with an injury for 12 months is one of the worst arguments I’ve heard on here .

 

[snk123]

I haven't been active much on here but what I have observed from the time is that the caf is obsessed with stats. Rashford is a terrific player but his decision making is terrible and needs to improve massively. When you give this argument, all you get in return from the stats obsessed folk is the number of goals and assists.

This is one of Rashford's best games for us (the only one I could find on youtube) - a cracking goal against PSG. Look at the number of times he made a terrible decision (being selfish or passing when he had to shoot)

Again, I'm not picking minor decisions - all these could have led to goals. Feel free to do this exercise for literally any game.

Spoiler

1. Not passing to Martial in the channel

2. Deciding to pass so early (poorly as well) instead of going on and shooting or then squaring to Martial.

3. Indecisive. Could have cut back to Bruno or decided to shoot - did neither.

4. Shooting when he could have released Fred? clean through on goal.

5. Shooting with his left foot instead of passing to Martial who's in a much better position.

 

[Threesus]

When will this get old? He's played over 1500 more minutes than Cavani in the PL and over 1200 more minutes than Martial. Not saying Martial or Cavani have been good - just pointing out how ridiculous stats can get when you cherry pick them.

I mean, I don’t think we would have missed martial this season, the way he has been playing. In the words of Benzema “ on my mother’s life, he is playing against us”.

Except for his back injury during which he missed significant time, Marcus has always been mostly available for selection during his pro career. I don’t think you can hold that against him.

I think someone mentioned this before, but only Bruno and to an extent Rashford, look like players who don’t always need a boost of confidence. Martial, Greenwood and even Pogba, look like they forget how to play once they encounter the first rough patch. I think we need a mentality change at the club.

 

[Doracle]

Freeze framing situations is never a good way to try and analyse incidents. From watching the full clips, number 2 above was an error. Number 3 he could have done better but never quite got it under control. Numbers 1, 4 and 5 he made the correct decisions (or the decisions I’d have expected most top players to make). So, one, possibly two, occasions where he made the wrong choice - one of which was him trying to be unselfish when the best option was probably to take it on himself. Nothing I wouldn’t expect from most players - indeed, we see Bruno make a similar error in these clips just focussed on Rashford after Rashford makes the correct decision to put him through on goal. That’s not to say, of course, that Rashford couldn’t improve in this area - he obviously can - but to suggest it’s a major problem is way off the mark in my view.

 

[Threesus]

I haven't been active much on here but what I have observed from the time is that the caf is obsessed with stats. Rashford is a terrific player but his decision making is terrible and needs to improve massively. When you give this argument, all you get in return from the stats obsessed folk is the number of goals and assists.

This is one of Rashford's best games for us (the only one I could find on youtube) - a cracking goal against PSG. Look at the number of times he made a terrible decision (being selfish or passing when he had to shoot)

Again, I'm not picking minor decisions - all these could have led to goals. Feel free to do this exercise for literally any game.

1. Not passing to Martial in the channel


2. Deciding to pass so early (poorly as well) instead of going on and shooting or then squaring to Martial.


3. Indecisive. Could have cut back to Bruno or decided to shoot - did neither.



4. Shooting when he could have released Fred? clean through on goal.



5. Shooting with his left foot instead of passing to Martial who's in a much better position.

I agree, decision making is still one of his major issues. He is never consistent with it.

Saying that I could also show the game against Leipzig at home where he absolutely destroyed upamecano and co and scored the fastest hattrick from the bench in CL history.

I have mentioned this before, but will he always be frustrating? Yes. But I believe he is important for our future, whatever that might be. I can’t say the same for any of our other attackers, excluding Mason. You might differ on that, and that’s fair. We all want what’s best for the club, after all.

 

[El Jefe]

I haven't been active much on here but what I have observed from the time is that the caf is obsessed with stats. Rashford is a terrific player but his decision making is terrible and needs to improve massively. When you give this argument, all you get in return from the stats obsessed folk is the number of goals and assists.

This is one of Rashford's best games for us (the only one I could find on youtube) - a cracking goal against PSG. Look at the number of times he made a terrible decision (being selfish or passing when he had to shoot)

Again, I'm not picking minor decisions - all these could have led to goals. Feel free to do this exercise for literally any game.

Spoiler

1. Not passing to Martial in the channel

2. Deciding to pass so early (poorly as well) instead of going on and shooting or then squaring to Martial.

3. Indecisive. Could have cut back to Bruno or decided to shoot - did neither.

4. Shooting when he could have released Fred? clean through on goal.

5. Shooting with his left foot instead of passing to Martial who's in a much better position.

Agree with everything you said except the bit about it being one of his best games. This was actually a horrendous performance from Rashford outside of the winner. One of the many games his goal contributions have covered up a very poor game.

This game sticks out so much because with better decision making we really could have scored four in this game but as you've shown, Rashford continuously made the wrong decision or screwed up the execution on the final pass.

I don't understand why many posters keep bringing up his goal contributions as a response to the criticism of his general play and decision making. Like other posters have mentioned, Lukaku scored 27 in his first season and that didn't stop the criticism about his technique and lack of impact in big games. Zlatan would have scored over 30 if not for his season ending injury, yet he was criticised widely for the number of clear cut chances he missed. This is why I don't get why some defenders of Rashford are being so precious about the criticism of his play.

 

[Threesus]

both sides on the rashford debate are never going to agree on anything, so it remains to be seen which side is proven right in the end.

what I do know, is this thread is going to swing to the extremes on a match day basis. I can already see things like championship player, Rashford and the like seeing high usage come Sunday. Hopefully, he can deliver so this thread doesn’t become that.

 

[lsd]

I haven't been active much on here but what I have observed from the time is that the caf is obsessed with stats. Rashford is a terrific player but his decision making is terrible and needs to improve massively. When you give this argument, all you get in return from the stats obsessed folk is the number of goals and assists.

This is one of Rashford's best games for us (the only one I could find on youtube) - a cracking goal against PSG. Look at the number of times he made a terrible decision (being selfish or passing when he had to shoot)

Again, I'm not picking minor decisions - all these could have led to goals. Feel free to do this exercise for literally any game.

Spoiler

1. Not passing to Martial in the channel

2. Deciding to pass so early (poorly as well) instead of going on and shooting or then squaring to Martial.

3. Indecisive. Could have cut back to Bruno or decided to shoot - did neither.

4. Shooting when he could have released Fred? clean through on goal.

5. Shooting with his left foot instead of passing to Martial who's in a much better position.

You lost it with "shooting instead of releasing Fred "

 

[KM]

So after reading everything I wrote that’s all you can come up with in reply?

It’s universally accepted that our play isn’t easy on the eye or fluid. Everything we do in an attacking sense is to accommodate Rashford or it goes through Rashford at some point. He and Bruno have total creative freedom. He’s also our laziest player by some distance. Our other forwards might actually have something to work with if Rashford gave them the ball on the counter the odd time or won a tackle high up and sent one of them through. They might even have a few more assists if he’d make more runs into dangerous areas instead of waiting for it in the same position over and over. Our other forwards are his backing band currently. They also always have to press defend and track back. Does that account for their form falling off a cliff? No but all these graphs and charts with the top scoring and assisting players are forgetting one thing. Every other player on the list above Rashford is scoring more in CL not the EL. At the moment we are battling for the EL for the last 2 seasons. that’s the standard that Rashford as our main danger and the rest of our players are currently setting for better or worse. It’s not Rashford fault but he’s as much part of the issue as anyone else

Genuinely one of the most horrendous and clueless post on here. Jesus.

 

[Highfather_24]

He's not beyond criticism, this is plain fanboyism. He has a lot of flaws, which are stopping him from becoming a top player. His game intelligence most importantly.

15 years ago, he would be on the bench. "Legend" such cringe.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

He is not above criticism, but this thread has literally blown my mind.

I genuinely cannot wait to see Mbappe or Haaland playing in the Prem. Will give everyone a real feckin indication of how good Rashford is.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

He's not beyond criticism, this is plain fanboyism. He has a lot of flaws, which are stopping him from becoming a top player. His game intelligence most importantly.

15 years ago, he would be on the bench. "Legend" such cringe.

On the bench at 8 years old? Fair play to him!

 

[Josep Dowling]

He gets a lot of valid criticism because he’s very wasteful and has a habit of making the wrong decision. I can think of many times this season where he’s through on goal but rather than shoot he tries to lay the ball off, and others where he wastefully shoots from 30-40 yards.

But I also see a player where many fans expect more from him because the talent is clearly there. The question is can he push on to be a world class player? I feel like he’s at that stage Ronaldo was in 2005/06. I’m not saying he’s going to suddenly turn into Ronaldo but he has the potential to be a top bracket player. He just needs to cut out the silly mistakes. This expectation probably means he gets more criticism than most players in the squad. When you see his goals and assist stats for his age he’s right up there with the United greats.

 

[lsd]

He is going to end up with over 200 goals for us and yet there will still be posters hating on him

 

[Dr Foo]

He is going to end up with over 200 goals for us and yet there will still be posters hating on him

He is not a classic winger with close control so he won't match up to comparisons on that front. He's like a hybrid inside forward but he's still not as clinical as the strikers we are used to seeing. But he has moments of brilliance along with his pace that yields opportunities that not many can create. His decision making needs to, and hopefully will be improved with age though. I think if we are truly competitive, he should be one of many different reliable attacking outlets for us, not the only one to shoulder the burden other than Bruno

 

[rron10]

Overall he's our best attacker, if we had a ST and a RW like him we would be much better and score more goals.
Of course he is no Ronaldo or Messi and will never be. But he is the best attacker from Man Utd in the last 2 years.

 

[Ali Dia]

Genuinely one of the most horrendous and clueless post on here. Jesus.

you didn’t answer my question on Thursday when I asked you so I’ll ask you again now. I’m intrigued seeing as you’re such a good poster.

His last bit of play before the sub was world class tries to dribble through everyone and gets cleaned, again. Nice goal though. Same as Sunday just an ok performance. Gets his goal, super goal! He’s the least of our worries but he seriously needs to mix it up when he gets on the ball. I don’t know how even his biggest fans can’t see that? Do you guys think it’s productive to get the ball and dribble into a crowd at every opportunity?
What do you think buddy?

You were all bluster with the goal asking me was I ok but you got quiet as the performance unfolded and he got subbed off right after attempting a cryuff turn when he had a perfectly good chance to lay it off. It was pretty funny and it summed up the recent performances perfectly I thought. Then you pop up again with more quality above and disappear again. Stealthy!

 

[NicolaSacco]

He is going to end up with over 200 goals for us and yet there will still be posters hating on him

Only if he plays over 600 games for you, given his current ratio.

 

[RedRoach]

What a player he is

https://www.manutd.com/en/videos/de...ord-goals-for-man-utd-in-202021-season-so-far

 

[RedRoach]

Also for all those saying he not good enough. He would walk into any top side in football today and the sides in Spain would be creaming themselves to have him.

I also genuinely believe if he played in a side that had better chance creation from midfield he would be a 30+ goal a season player by now

 

[Desert Eagle]

You lost it with "shooting instead of releasing Fred "

On the bench at 8 years old? Fair play to him!

We all want him to play well and win trophies. Accept this fact and most discussions will proceed smoother.

 

[roonster09]

Only if he plays over 600 games for you, given his current ratio.

still going with goals per game outdated thing.

 

[Swearing Budgie]

He is a class player and a great bunch of lads.

Running straight into a group of defenders is part of his masterplan. Everyone expects I now so soon he will activate phase II, whereby he draws all the defenders in and offloads to someone better placed to score.

Genius.

 

[acnumber9]

When will this get old? He's played over 1500 more minutes than Cavani in the PL and over 1200 more minutes than Martial. Not saying Martial or Cavani have been good - just pointing out how ridiculous stats can get when you cherry pick them.

When will you stop posting that like it matters? He’s the same number of goals per 90 minutes as both combined.

 

[Imlegend]

He is not above criticism, but this thread has literally blown my mind.

I genuinely cannot wait to see Mbappe or Haaland playing in the Prem. Will give everyone a real feckin indication of how good Rashford is.

Totally agree, it's just unrealistic expectations of how a good player is supposed to play.

 

[NicolaSacco]

still going with goals per game outdated thing.

When talking about how many goals he might score, yes.

 

[roonster09]

When talking about how many goals he might score, yes.

Yeah because he will again start 50% of his game from bench like he did when he was youngster.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

When will this get old? He's played over 1500 more minutes than Cavani in the PL and over 1200 more minutes than Martial. Not saying Martial or Cavani have been good - just pointing out how ridiculous stats can get when you cherry pick them.

He's got 20 goals and 12 assists.

Stop crying and having a go at our best forward every week. Engage your brain and point at the others who aren't doing their bit.

 

[snk123]

He's got 20 goals and 12 assists.

Stop crying and having a go at our best forward every week. Engage your brain and point at the others who aren't doing their bit.

Stupid post as expected. He's not immune to criticism. Having "good" stats don't tell half the story - stop obsessing over the numbers and look at the performances.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Stupid post as expected. He's not immune to criticism. Having "good" stats don't tell half the story - stop obsessing over the numbers and look at the performances.

He's got 32 goal involvements playing half fit. More than Salah mate.

You're clueless.

 

[El Jefe]

Totally agree, it's just unrealistic expectations of how a good player is supposed to play.

Not having a go at you but I think this is a bit insulting to the fans that expect more. This club has seen forwards like Cantona, Best, Law, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo and many others far better than Rashford. I think we have a great idea of what players are capable of.

If people want him to be beyond reproach, then his performances should rise to the level of some of those great players listed. There's nothing unrealistic about expecting better decision making and less error prone performances from Rashford.

Don't get me wrong, Rashford has had a good season, but the OP is embarrassing and posters using Rashford's numbers as a way of absolving him of any criticism are just as bad.

 

[snk123]

He's got 32 goal involvements playing half fit. More than Salah mate.

You're clueless.

Lukaku had similar stats or more. Was he a great player?

Also, half fit players don't try to dribble past 5 players. Needs to improve his decision making - whether you understand that or not.

 

[-Supreme-]

Not having a go at you but I think this is a bit insulting to the fans that expect more. This club has seen forwards like Cantona, Best, Law, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo and many others far better than Rashford. I think we have a great idea of what players are capable of.

If people want him to be beyond reproach, then his performances should rise to the level of some of those great players listed. There's nothing unrealistic about expecting better decision making and less error prone performances from Rashford.

Don't get me wrong, Rashford has had a good season, but the OP is embarrassing and posters using Rashford's numbers as a way of absolving him of any criticism are just as bad.

I have no doubt these posters defended Lukaku with stats and never questioned his overall performances when he was here too

 

[simplyared]

Not having a go at you but I think this is a bit insulting to the fans that expect more. This club has seen forwards like Cantona, Best, Law, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo and many others far better than Rashford. I think we have a great idea of what players are capable of.

If people want him to be beyond reproach, then his performances should rise to the level of some of those great players listed. There's nothing unrealistic about expecting better decision making and less error prone performances from Rashford.

Don't get me wrong, Rashford has had a good season, but the OP is embarrassing and posters using Rashford's numbers as a way of absolving him of any criticism are just as bad.

In what way is the OP embarrassing?

 

[roonster09]

People still think all the nonsense posted are valid criticism

 

[VP89]

People still think all the nonsense posted are valid criticism

Rashford has had a long string of under par performances this season, which a fair point from many who criticised him.

Of course many have gone over the top, but the OP seems to bucket them all as one.

 

[roonster09]

Rashford has had a long string of under par performances this season, which a fair point from many who criticised him.

Of course many have gone over the top, but the OP seems to bucket them all as one.

I don't agree with OP btw, got too carried away comparing to Legends and all that. But some of the criticism is downright hilarious.