AbsolutelyFar to sensible a post for a redcafe member. You need to be much more polarised in your views to be a full member of Redcafe. @Raoul does this deserve a like? I think so.
AbsolutelyFar to sensible a post for a redcafe member. You need to be much more polarised in your views to be a full member of Redcafe. @Raoul does this deserve a like? I think so.
Football eye tests are rarely 20/20.....I'd say more blinkered. Stats equally so as 'fans maths' don't always equate, again depending on interpretation. Not sure Fred is a tricky one, just depends on your lense. He polarises opinions but for me, just means he's probably sits something in the middle. Even being in the middle is a hard place to maintain at Utd and better players than Fred have struggled to maintain that.Fred is a tricky one, a lot of the time he does not pass the "eye test" and it can leave the general feeling that he has had more bad games than good. On the other hand, the stats make him look like he's a much much better player than he probably is. I do agree that a lot of his work can go unnoticed, I'd be happy to let him stay and I think he's a guaranteed starter for the big games where we need that all energy, quick tempo approach but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that we could improve on him.
Why stop there. How about their defence, their attack or even their manager?Some posters on here love to make it as complicated as possible regarding some players we have while it's pretty straight forward. Look at Real Madrid's midfielders in Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, that's the standard we need to aspire to, not Fred. And they got them for how much again? 60-70m? While we paid 50m to some Ukrainian club for Fred? Yes he is useful in games and can contribute, puts 100% into everything and I respect him and like him for that. However he is not good enough to start week in week out for Manchester United.
It's where we are the weakest and most evident in comparison. It's the engine of the team and we have Fred there.Why stop there. How about their defence, their attack or even their manager?
My point is why compare? You could argue that the weakest point is the manager as Fred doesn't pick himself? Real aren't even the barometer in their own league.It's where we are the weakest and most evident in comparison. It's the engine of the team and we have Fred there.
Isn't this a thread about Fred though?Why stop there. How about their defence, their attack or even their manager?
I agree, if someone watches a player with a bias already in their head, their mistakes or constructive plays can be seen to prove whatever point the person originally had (similar to Howson and Shaw, it took him way to long to admit he was playing well), I suspect it's very similar with Fred, one wayward pass and thats all the confirmation people need. My friend always bemoans Harry Maguire every single time he dallies on the ball, even if he'd just got it out of his feet quickly the play beforehand stating that "he always does this".Football eye tests are rarely 20/20.....I'd say more blinkered. Stats equally so as 'fans maths' don't always equate, again depending on interpretation. Not sure Fred is a tricky one, just depends on your lense. He polarises opinions but for me, just means he's probably sits something in the middle. Even being in the middle is a hard place to maintain at Utd and better players than Fred have struggled to maintain that.
Yes, there is an upgrade for every player and including the manager but those who follow the club, Fred is every bit Man Utd. A player who never know when it's beaten, responds to adversity and proves the doubters wrong. If those who's ceilings were higher like Pogs, had some of these qualities consistently, in principle Fred probably wouldn't be here. Fred has to exist cause others simply don't often enough. Look back at some of the most important games in prem and CL since Ole, Fred's been up there for MOTM in most of them.
Imagine comparing a player who contributed match winning performances and key goals in one of our best squads, having cost £4 million to Fred. In a thread the title of which is suggesting it was £47 million well spent on him. I’d take Park over Fred on Park’s worst day and Fred’s best. Some of you need an eye test.Imagine if we played Park Ji Sung as a starter every week. It wouldn't be miles off what you get with Fred.
Prices are inflated all around since Park's time. Park would cost way more today.Imagine comparing a player who contributed match winning performances and key goals in one of our best squads, having cost £4 million to Fred. In a thread the title of which is suggesting it was £47 million well spent on him. I’d take Park over Fred on Park’s worst day and Fred’s best. Some of you need an eye test.
dont feel Bad my opinion on him changes Within the game ...Numerous timesI can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).
Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.
I do like him though and hope we keep him, I think we just need someone a bit better on the ball in his position for rotation/a different option
Easy explanation for that this week. He was very good in our last game and very bad tonight. As @Annihilate Now! suggested, Matic seems to be his kryptonite.I can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).
Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.
I do like him though and hope we keep him, I think we just need someone a bit better on the ball in his position for rotation/a different option
you are not alone there my friend.dont feel Bad my opinion on him changes Within the game ...Numerous times
Good point I'd never considered before - always tend to dread it when I see them both on the team sheet together but never really put 2 & 2 together.Easy explanation for that this week. He was very good in our last game and very bad tonight. As @Annihilate Now! suggested, Matic seems to be his kryptonite.
JSP was on a whole different level to Fred. He was the better passer and the better finisher. I would argue that his engine was better too.Imagine if we played Park Ji Sung as a starter every week. It wouldn't be miles off what you get with Fred.
Park is definitely another level in term of shooting. His goal against AC Milan when playing for PSV probably drew our attention. His stamina is on par with Fred. But rather than those, Fred is clearly better.JSP was on a whole different level to Fred. He was the better passer and the better finisher. I would argue that his engine was better too.
You'll get no argument from me. Park was amazing and he'd easily fit into Ole's pivot and do a better job than either Fred or McTominay. My point was that there wouldn't be miles of difference and Fred can be that sort of player for this team.JSP was on a whole different level to Fred. He was the better passer and the better finisher. I would argue that his engine was better too.
It's no coincidence that we are shit since Park leftImagine if we played Park Ji Sung as a starter every week. It wouldn't be miles off what you get with Fred.
We need to remove the concept that managers are experts regarding talent spotting. That made sense 20 years ago but not anymore. The manager's job had been deskilled with DOFs taking key aspects of their job. The manager neither have the time nor the experience to be considered top and reliable talent spotters anymore. So I won't be surprised if Pep wanted Fred and Sanchez only to be shot down by the DOF.High energy all-action player who plays with his head down. I refuse to believe Pep Guardiola wanted to purchase Fred. We must have the three most unpredictable midfielders of all the top teams in Fred, Bruno and Pogba. Absolute world-class and head-scratching moments within the same game.
I would get bored with City's machine-like efficiency.
agree. Furthermore just because a manager wants a player, it is not a barometer of quality.We need to remove the concept that managers are experts regarding talent spotting. That made sense 20 years ago but not anymore. The manager's job had been deskilled with DOFs taking key aspects of their job. The manager neither have the time nor the experience to be considered top and reliable talent spotters anymore. So I won't be surprised if Pep wanted Fred and Sanchez only to be shot down by the DOF.
What is Fred better at than Park? Here are JSP's stats: https://www.premierleague.com/players/2940/Park-Ji-Sung/statsPark is definitely another level in term of shooting. His goal against AC Milan when playing for PSV probably drew our attention. His stamina is on par with Fred. But rather than those, Fred is clearly better.
He's been inconsistent since January so it's understandable to have a lot of changes in how you rate his performances week to week. Some games he's great, some games he's shit, most games he's been about average. How you rate him as an overall player should take all those games together, along with the fact he'd actually been one of our most consistent players in the 16 or so months before that.I can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).
Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.
Good squad player. But we need an upgradeWhat a player. Aside from the PSG red where we were all fuming at him, he has really come on strong since Ole’s arrival and made himself an indispensable member to the first team. So remarkably energetic, magnificent at breaking up play and this season especially, has added a real technical ability to his game. Add to that his much improved decision-making, and you have the excellent midfielder that Fred is now.
So far, he’s been one of our players of the season. Imo, it’s fair to say by now that the £47m we shelled out for him was inspired business.
This will sound petty but Roma second goal. This was an example of why , in my view , Fred frustrates. If you watch from when McT loses possession way up the pitch. He fails to track first runner. Stands in space watching ball with two Roma players either side. Misses the run in the channel. Then after they score is wacking the floor in anger.Fair enough. I just dont see it with him and it's probably the last thing I would accuse him of but maybe I'm just blind to it.
I do also think it is very difficult to both ball watch a lot while also being more involved in the play than anyone else but I'll make an effort in next few games to see if I spot any ball watching.
Just saw this. That’s what happens when you mess with a BrazilianWell worth it
Some posters on here love to make it as complicated as possible regarding some players we have while it's pretty straight forward. Look at Real Madrid's midfielders in Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, that's the standard we need to aspire to, not Fred. And they got them for how much again? 60-70m? While we paid 50m to some Ukrainian club for Fred? Yes he is useful in games and can contribute, puts 100% into everything and I respect him and like him for that. However he is not good enough to start week in week out for Manchester United.
Tbf the prices were quite inflated by that point. And I don't think Fred was ever supposed to solve our midfield problems for the next five years. He's a useful squad player who happens to play every game, but he's doing okay which means we can focus on other areas, while perhaps waiting for better options in midfield.This